Took this 9pt. Saturday morning not 40 minutes after the season opened up. It is my first buck with a bow. Last picture is of him in velvet on a neighbors property.

Have a great season everyone!

Congrats Chris! How about a little story (How far out, Any tracking drama, and such)?

Sure.

Got in the stand right at shooting time. Had a doe come out about 7am but it never came close enough for a shot. About 15 minutes later a smaller buck and this buck came right into the feeder. Didn't even see them until they were within 25 yards. My buck was eating under the feeder and chasing the other one away. Here in Texas we have antler restrictions which means bucks have to be 13" wide or better. Not wanting to make a mistake a looked him over for several minutes before deciding to shoot. Took the shot at 20 yards and had a double lung pass through. He only ran 60 yards before fell.

Nice man congrats! Nice buck for your first with a bow!!

RC

Very nice! I don't know about you, but for me, the adrenaline right before the shot is almost too much to bare...Almost I got the bug at 16 years old and will hopefully never loose it.

Nice job! What did it weigh?

Mnfish,

When he walked out my heart was racing but by the time I took the shot I had calmed down. After I heard him fall I thought I was going to hyperventilate.

Spark,

He was probably around 140. Most of the mature bucks in our area will go 150-200.

Nice buck!

Chris -- that is fantastic.

I wonder what you guys in Texas do when you get deer this time of year. I got a doe on Friday. It was probably in the high 40s when she was shot, but it was headed for the 80s.

As soon as I could, I packed the gut cavity with 40 lbs. of ice, put a tarp over her, and then two moving blankets (this was in the back of my pickup).

I waited until she was well chilled before skinning and quartering.

I've finally got all of her processed, packaged, and in the freezer -- except for the tenderloins. They are tonight's dinner. They have been marinating since yesterday.

Ken

Ken,

We take our deer to a processor about 20 minutes away so we just get them cleaned as quick as possible. I had my deer dropped off within 4 hours of being shot.

Congrats Chris! Good shooting! Our season opens Wed. I've got to do some serious thinking because where I wanted to put the stand in relation to where the deer are being seen will not work for the wind on Wed. ESE is the wrong wind for that area. Cameras are out again in different areas and they will be checked tomorrow.

When does rifle season open there?

November 1

Having a very difficult time concentrating on work. Took my 12-yr old daughter out for her first hunt Saturday which was our Youth Hunting Day. Saw 9 deer and a bear cub. Actually had the safety in the "off" position for a few moments when a group of does passed thru, but the right shot never quite materialized. Those youth days are a great time if you've got kids.

This Saturday... bow season!

Bow season opens here tomorrow...it's not what you'd call great hunting weather, going to be in the low 80's. But I'll likely get a sit in late afternoon just for fun.

VAMAZ,

This year's Northern Virginia's season is crazy. Pretty much unlimited for antlerless in the counties like Loudoun, Prince William, etc. It started last week in those areas.

Same here in Indiana, archery opens Oct 1.

Chris, have you ever thought about using that long distance gun of yours on whitetails? I'm thinking that a 405g "hammer of thor" would do quite well on one.

Some day. It'll put a hurting on a coyote for sure.

I checked my camera this last Saturday had a bunch of does a small buck and then all of a sudden this guy showed up!! I got one pic of him. I named him Twin Towers for his TALL G2's and the pic was taken on 9/11.

RC

This is the biggest buck I have seen at this camp in 5 years! I am motivated now!!!

Nice Buck RC. I am going hunting after a 3 year break first time this year.
I have done a little here but usually go wilderness in WVA. for a week. Looking forward to it big time. Where I hunt is big genes for mountain deer, got a 12 point with a 23 1/2 inch spread and a 5 " dropped tine there. Also 9" brow tines and est 250 lbs.
I had him mounted as best I have ever got.
Hopes on his son! Three years ought to be a big boy as I think good mast, at least here it has been.
Good luck guys/

Have fun Wood! I wish I would have gotten more pics of this guy but he must have just crusied through I guess. I have my camera set to take a pic every 10 seconds so at night he must have been out of range by the time it was ready to take another pic. At least for now I know he's around! Now everytime I see or hear a deer my heart will be pounding like a little kid again hunting!! I hope I can get him.

RC

Congratulations, Chris....Nice shot!

Did not see anything yesterday morning, but snatched a mommy away from her large fawn yesterday around 6 PM. I think this may be my first opening-day success. Lots of does were out around that particular stand at the time. Came in early this morning. Looking like a washout today.

No success yesterday for me. Had a set of twin bucks, both with 7"-9" spikes walk under the ladder stand last evening, both within 5 yds, one came over and sniffed the actual ladder on the stand. I guess the "Dead Down Wind" scent eliminating spray worked, or I didn't stink too bad to them! I could have dropped an arrow on it.

I also watched a pair of bucks half heartedly dukeing it out for about 15 minutes at 200 yds. Dark enough out that I couldn't make out the racks thru my 8x rangefinder. With the deer there I couldn't get out of the stand until 7:30 p.m. CST without giving away my location.

No does at all.

I did find roughly 5# of Hen-of-the-woods and some fall button mushrooms, and left more Hens to grow for later. This may be a year like 3-4 years ago when I saw 14 different bucks but hardly any does. I put this stand in that spot because Sunday/Monday/Tuesday I had pictures of a bunch of does and bucks on the trail camera.

Esshup
My daughter got her first deer with her Matthews bow... Boy was she proud and so was I. Quite a thing to take a buck with a bow.. It was a great day even tho the trophy was a spike.. Still doesn't get any better . Hope you get a wall hanger this season

Pat W

Congrats to your daughter! How old is she?

She is 28 and a year out of optometry school... Lots of studying and not much time to hunt... Which she loves to do... She is quite an offshore fisher woman also. We are really proud of the Doc... After 8 yrs of college now it's time to have a little fun

Pat W

That's great Pat. I'm taking 3 15-16 year old predators bow hunting this weekend. These guys are deadly.

Didn't see a thing for the opener here in Indiana but tonight I arrowed this small 10 point. Not the biggest in the woods but I am a meat hunter anyway. Funny thing is, I shot him 50 yards from the camera I have been running since July and he has never been on it.

congrats airborne,

Thats a young 10 point he would have been something in another year or 2. But if your hunting for meat the younger ones are better anyway.

Isn't it funny this time of year how you can have all kinds of pics of deer and then all of a sudden hey where did this guy come from!! We have several guys that have cameras out and the buck I shot last year was not on any of them. The big one above that I posted has not been on any pics this year until the one shot I got of him. Which leads me to believe they are starting to roam just a little bit more already!!

RC

Nice "meat" deer, airborne. I'd like to put something like that in my freezer this season. Actually, I'd rather one of the kids gets to do it and I get to watch!

Get your meat from does and you'll have some trophies around too:)

Pat, tell your daughter congrats from me as well!

Esshup
Will do
Last nite I set out till 11pm wanting to ambush pigs and had my kill lite under the feeder and three wall hangers came in and posed infront of camera for at least an hour. Can't wait to check the card. No pigs tho till this morning before daylight. To dark to see crosshairs.... Maybe next time


Pat W

Pat, I've found very few illuminated reticles that do well at night. Most, even on the lowest setting are too bright and overpower what you are trying to see thru the scope. I have two that work well; one Leupold 30mm tube, 50mm objective mil-dot where only the center "X" is illuminated that works great for very low light conditions, and the other is my Nightforce NSX.

Yeah he was young. The butcher and I both guessed 3 1/2. I just can't believe he has never been on cam. He was very heavy though, probably dressed out at 150 or 160. Here is a close up of the rack.

I killed a doe on Saturday afternoon and had this guy directly underneath me Sunday afternoon...another year or two there guy, another year or two. Big body, smallish rack.

Great start to the season!

3 1/2 is not a young deer. He looks younger in the picture. Took a doe on opening day but the wind on the next two days was bad. Saw 4 in the morning yesterday and 5 last night - also one that will be nice in a year or so. 10-pt but not enough mass or tine height. He is out a bit past the ears though. I have a single night picture on the cam of a shooter.

Congrats to those who have put meat in the freezer so far.. As for myself, went to check trail camera yesterday and sit for a couple of hours.. Needless to say some dummy never armed the camera after setting it on test to see the line of fire.. Also saw nothing from the stand either... Youth season is next weekend so we will see what that brings..

Been there and done that but thought it was only me that does that. Set out last nite to try to do away with some piggies... A fine eight or wandered around in the wheat field for an hour checking out the babes. In our area with small parcels to see a150 class deer that looks to be3-1/2- 4-1/2 yrs. old is a pleasurable sight. Had to wait for him to leave the field to shoot a small 125 lb pig . Hop the daughter sees Big in the daylight

Pat W

Took a good buck on Saturday. Pretty old, guessing 5 1/2. We'll know shortly, a wildlife biologist buddy of mine is checking the teeth.

Large buck, dressed out he weighed 215. Good main beam length, just bad genetics, his tines are short. He was a bruiser, had lots of war wounds...broke the end of his left main off at some point. 12 scoreable points. Haven't scored him yet but it won't be very high.

congrats Dale, any time you can kill a mature buck it is an accomplishment. Still looking for mine

Well yesterday afternoon was my turn with this nice 9 pointer. Shot him at 12 yards with a Rage and he only went 30 yards. The blood trail was incredible.

Nice Buck !!! I am new here and just found this thread. I came here for all I can learn about raising fish, and I am glad to see some Bow hunters here. I bow hunt a couple of days a week. I have had a couple of chances to take a Buck, but when hunting my own property I wait for something (special to me) before I let it fly. Again nice Buck

Tall one!

Man, both of those are really nice bucks. Congratulations!

I shot a small button buck yesterday morning. It was more of a mercy killing than anything else. Why can't people learn to shoot BEFORE they go hunting?? This one was hit during archery season. Arrow went behind the rib cage, OVER the spine. It was swelled up and he was pretty skinny. I double lunged it with the Savage Muzzleloader so I wouldn't ruin any more meat. It trottee off about 40 yds, stood there, twitched it's tail a few times and tipped over, dead.

Good job Scott. Hate ta see things suffer because of some dumb arse human being irresponsible. When I was hunting I would not take a shot over twenty yrds. Yeah, I know that ain't far but that is what I was DEADLY at. Practiced lots but never used sights or a release and I'm built like Olive Oil. Had ta let lots of deer go by but have only shot a very few that weren't recovered.

Beautiful buck, lassig....that's the way to stickem'!!!

In 50+ years of hunting, I've lost a few and I use a cannon called a 30-06. I find it amazing that a deer can lose so much blood and still never be found. I hate doing that.

Dave,

Same here I am sick for days and don't sleep after not being able to find a deer and it doesn't matter buck or doe.

Yeah, to me, hunting isn't about making corpses out of anything. Some need to be taken out but not to go off somewhere and die.

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but I was taught there were three reasons to kill something. The three "P"s

Profit
Protection
Provisions

A fourth "P", Pride, was frowned upon. I suppose that's why I'm not a trophy hunter.

We eat the meat and our dog eats the scraps. I hunt because I love it. There are less expensive ways to get provisions. Not my biggest, but he weighed in at just over 200 lbs before field dressing.

Tony, I agree. Now, the killing is based on provisions and protection. I hunt for the freezer first, the wall is a distant 2nd.

Going to Wi.? Since I don't usually bring meat home from there (I'll usually give it to family there) hunting is more of a socializing trip and to visit family than anything else. Don't get me wrong, I still like to spend time in the woods, (even tho it's brutally cold some years), but a bigger part of that trip is the people vs the hunting.

No ill will towards trophy hunters here. It is my belief that as long as you're operating within the law, then it's your decision to make.

As for myself however, I just decided years ago I would not kill something simply because it was the biggest of its kind, then try and tell myself it was for food when I knew the younger, smaller animals were usually better suited for this purpose. But again, I think that is a personal decision.

Hunting for almost all Americans is a hobby, not for food. One could buy more food with less input of time working at McDonald's. The reason hunters take few trophies is because animals must have good avoidance instincts to get that old. It takes more skill to get a good shot at a mature animal. Meat hunters that I know convince themselves that they are on higher ground, but really are not able to fill their tag with an older animal. I have taken plenty of younger animals as I was developing my hunting skills. I had 5 does right under me yesterday and three were mature. I let them pass to keep the younger bucks away from my meat-hunter neighbors. They are not young or new hunters, and you can hear the volley of shots that occurs whenever anything brown runs by. I shot a doe on opening day of bow for the freezer and to keep the buck-doe ratio in line. It ran less than 10 feet. The antlers in my post above are from opening day of gun and he ran less than 35 yards. Well placed shots in mature animals. Hunt as you will, but don't pretend that hunting is for food for most Americans. I will take a couple more does for local families that need the meat, but their time is better spent working than hunting.

RAH, I completely agree that the majority of Americans do not need to hunt strictly for provisions. I can show you a couple families down here that do not fit that demographic, however.

I don't deer hunt, never have. I have been fortunate in that I've never needed to supplement our food supply by taking wild game. Were that situation to change however, I am confident that I could provide for my family's needs with a minimal expenditure of time and effort.

As Tony said as long as you are operating within the law it's your choice... But I get frustrated with the law some times.. Illinois deer herd has suffered the last few years from disease (EHD and Blue tongue) and the unlimited OTC doe tags.. There are people out there shooting God only knows how many deer just because they can... I honestly hope the complete deer is being used, but I know it is not by the deer carcasses I see in the road ditches during and after deer season.. SMH

I have neighbors that have if it's brown it's down mentality. I can't abide by this idealoligy so I called the game warden in to even up the odds a little. This bozo is on 14 acres and has killed 3 bucks that I know of saying I need the meat. Well he lives in Austin and drives 2-1/2 hrs to hunt.... I say save your gas money and buy meat! Or food. There will be reprocussions for turning his butt in but sometimes you just have to stand up for what is right. Some people......!

Pat W

I have hunted and fished all my life growing up in Louisiana and now in Texas. I've never hunted and killed or caught any thing that we didnt eat...unless it was for safety reasons. I didnt eat turkey at Thanksgiving growing up until I was an adult, because we ate baked or smoked goose. I try not to judge, but I don't totally understand people that hunt just for sport. I never have...didn't grow up that way. We were given dominion over all animals and that is a gift. I feel a big responsibility comes with being a good steward in managing that gift.
Charlie

If I hunted to eat I would lose a lot of weight. To me it is more than a sport. I don't really know how to define it. It is what I do and, all things considered, it is darned expensive even though I own the land. I freely admit to being a predator.

OTOH, I had 4 16 year olds hunting on my place last week. That is way too many but that's OK. I went out a couple of times, saw nothing, but don't figure I wasted my time. Now, it's more about getting kids into the woods and away from the video games.

I second the "away from video games" part!

I agree, I could just as easily go to the store and buy beef, but I think there's a small amount of pride in being somewhat self sufficient in being able to fill the freezer.

Amen, brother. Shame this feeling has escaped so many.

I've thought about this thread a lot today, and I'm curious as to how hunting compares to fishing? Like Dave says, hunting is expensive. RAH has implied the same thing. And when I look over all of my fishing gear, there's a considerable sum there. But is it necessary?

I think it may go back to where I stood earlier today. Am I fishing for sport, or food? If it's sport, then it equates to recreation..which to me at least, hints at a certain measure of disposable income. After all, I could catch fish with a cane pole, if food was the objective. I wouldn't be quite as particular as to size, or species if I were hungry, and spending money I didn't have on nice gear would not be a priority when suppertime rolled around.

I know some families around here that look at hunting the same way. Money is tight, and food is expensive. Instead of multiple firearms, it makes a lot more sense financially for them to get a shotgun with an extra slug barrel. Now it's a multi-purpose gun, used for all sorts of game. Just like that cane pole. That's hunting/fishing for meat, in my eyes. It ain't perfect or ideal, but it provides the most bang for my buck.

Hunting for sport on the other hand, may indicate an entirely different set of circumstances. At least in my opinion. Sport fishing is often catch and release, maybe not all of the fish, but usually a fair amount. The thrill of holding that fish, or bringing it alongside the boat, is the goal. Sure, you COULD eat it, but it's not necessary, as long as the fish is uninjured you can simply release it for another day. Deer hunting for sport on the other hand, means the animal is down and not getting back up. Now, someone HAS to eat it...might as well tell myself that was the goal all along.

Let's travel a few years into the future. Sport hunters now carry electronic rifles that stun the deer instantly. No tracking or chasing, it drops right where it stands, provided my shot placement was accurate. Now I can hold it, touch it, get my photo taken with it...and then watch it recover, get up and walk away. I've still needed to do everything I always did before with a ballistic firearm, the only difference is after the shot I won't have antlers on the wall, or blood on my clothes. Perhaps my smart phone will even be capable of scanning the animal in 3D, to have a reproduction made by a capable taxi.

Would the appeal of sport hunting still be there?

I think the most likely response by some would be the need to harvest deer for management purposes. And I would agree. But that response neatly sidesteps the question at hand.

Perhaps you ignore our human instinct to hunt. Yes we need to manage deer populations, and I started hunting to manage crop damage, but I now hunt because I love the sport. The longer I have been hunting, the more selective I have become. If we all hunted for food, there would be no game to hunt.

My goal in buying and building up the place where I will retire is to make it as self-sufficient as possible. Can I buy all my food? sure. But I take enough to last my family a year and that's about all the red meat we eat. It's a couple minute stroll from the house to the blind and I butcher it the careful way I want it done. Yes I enjoy it. Gear costs money.

Put in a pond so I can take some fish for the table. And enjoy doing the care and fishing. Pond costs money. I have loved fishing for Piranha with a hook, steel leader and a hand spool. Fishing can be very simple.

Will put in a significant garden when I move there permanently. Will enjoy that.

Doing almost all the home rebuilding myself. Enjoying most of it. I have bought tools that cost money.. but cheaper than hiring it all done.

Logged, cut and stacked in the barn many cords of wood that will heat the house. Enjoyed much of it, but toting a hunk of wood that weighs as much as I do is not that fun. Love my expensive Stihl.

There is satisfaction in using my hands to build and provide. Whatever I engage in, I want to understand it and do it "well"

Well means different things to each of us. Trophy vs meat. Some like to drop them on the spot. I like a lung/heart shot, let it run a bit and bleed, but I don't lose meat. I concur with the disdain for the 8-shot burst people. I take my shot and put the rifle down.

Tony, I think the answer to your question is, "Be true to yourself in all you do." Many of us will end up in similar places. Some will choose differently. No shock that PB'ers are hunters. We connect with the natural world.

I think what I'm looking for is honest acknowledgement. I grew up in a hunting and fishing family. Just because I don't deer hunt doesn't mean I disdain all hunting. I'm a fair squirrel hunter, used to coon hunt till almost daybreak, can set a woodland snare for rabbits using just a pocketknife, and have trapped coons, rats' and mink along the creekbanks. I know when to gig suckers on the riffles as they make their spring run, and store them for excellent fish patties later in the year.

I can point out and name various plants that many simply step over or on, including those with monetary or supposed medicinal value. I can prepare beechnuts in such a manner that you can consume them without doubling over with cramps an hour later. I have skinned and prepared all manner of wild game, including untold number of deer. I can tell you which hickory trees out of a grove will have the best nutmeats.

I learned how to do all of this during my childhood. Not because we needed to in order to survive, but because the generation before me, the generation that raised me, needed to. And they wanted to ensure that I could, should the need arise. But always, it was impressed upon me the need to respect, and appreciate what was offered in nature.

This is why I am curious as to the motive behind trophy hunting. It really is foreign to me. To kill something just because of its greatness? When I cull fish, I don't toss the biggest male bluegills...I want those genes to remain, and there are plenty of other fish to cull, and/or consume.

Trophy hunting is perfectly legal, and just because I choose not to participate, doesn't give me the right to lecture those who do. I'm just looking for honest acknowledgement on the part of those who practice this form of hunting. As posted earlier, if deer hunting for sport meant no-kill, and no biological trophy for the wall, would it still retain its appeal? Or is it a case of pride in killing the biggest and best?

RAH, you may be correct. Like most of humanity I am certainly doing my best to suppress a myriad of human instincts. Many times not as successfully as I would like.

Tony, I don't hunt for the trophy on the wall. But, if a great animal walks by, I won't pass it up. Up here, there are very few pieces of property that are large enough that a deer will stay on it it's whole life, and passing up a 3.5 year old deer on the hopes that it will grow another 2-3 years and become a trophy just isn't realistic. Someone else will shoot it if it's seen.

There is a lot of illegal hunting going on too. That's an assumption tho. I heard a LOT of single shots fired the last hour to 1/2 hour before total darkness on the Friday evening before the firearms opener. Since we have 48 hrs to check in a deer, and electronic check-in is possible, who's to say if the deer was shot Friday evening or early Saturday morning if it's checked in Sunday evening?

Dang philosophers! Tony, it's about 4:30 in the morning, on my first cup of coffee, and you're making me think.

Although a self admitted predator and competitor, I've never wasted a minute of my life when hunting. And some of those days have been absolutely painful and miserable. Like Scott, I've done it in a lot of far off places that I'm now too old to tackle. Last night, I passed up a free, to me, guided Alaskan bear hunt with my Grandson. Although everybody says that I'm in great shape for my age(71) I know that I'm too old to mess with those mountains. I've been in them too many times to kid myself.

I don't want to get all gooshy about communing with nature. I don't synthesize things by saying that I harvest deer. Heck, I kill them and dead is dead. I've seen a lot more deer, elk, antelope than I've shot. If I shoot it, I eat it but don't hunt for food. Unless there is a problem animal, I don't molest it. I no longer dove hunt because I don't like the taste and don't use wildlife for target practice.

Some people hunt with a camera but, to me, that's about like kissing your sister.

I plant 4 acres in front of the house with wheat, turnips and radishes. This helps the animals get through January and February when natural browse is pretty hard to come by. No hunting is allowed there.

Actually, I haven't killed a deer on my land in 3 or 4 years. I have one buck that comes to corn feeders. He has a beautiful rack, is 4.5 years old, and has a bad left shoulder. More than likely he got his butt whipped when he was younger. I've told the kids not to molest Gimpy.

So, why do I do it? Why will I still do it when they have to push my wheel chair into the woods? Not sure I can answer that one.

I think that I compete. Right now I'm after a specific big buck. He's about 6.5 years old. I know his travel areas but not where he beds. Last weekend I sat in the woods when it was cold, wet and windy. Absolutely a miserable day to sit still very still and see nothing. I expect that the coyotes will take him some say instead of me. But, I may or may not shoot if I see him. I remember another huge buck in my sights about 20 years ago. I lined up on him and started thinking about it being a shame to kill the best of the breed. I passed but might not next time.

Well, there went an hour of sitting and thinking, typing and re typing without being able to answer you or myself.

Taking a trophy deer is a challenge. I can easily take deer, but not a trophy. Would you rather catch a big fish or a small one? If I sit all season and just see lots of animals and take none, that is OK with me. Like any sport or hobby, most strive to improve their skill. With deer hunting, this means seeking trophies. Most deer hunters never even see one. Taking a few over the years is a real challenge. Managing the deer population and having fresh meat is a bonus. We have never had a deer butchered by anyone else unless we were giving the carcass away (mostly to needy families). Having antlers hanging on the porch is a reminder of a successful hunt. Sport hunting has a long tradition, and is the basis of American hunting. When hunting for meat was unregulated, deer disappeared from the wild in many places. Our population has long surpassed the ability of wild animals to fill all of our freezers. I appreciate the privilege to hunt. I have only hunted on my own land, and my wife and I worked hard to buy it and transform it into wildlife habitat (and we are still working on it).

Thanks everyone, for taking time to post such thoughtful responses. It's much appreciated.

Scott, I completely agree in taking what walks down the trail by chance, including trophy animals. To me, that's an entirely different scenario than deliberately killing the biggest animal.

Dave, thanks for sharing your thoughts so early in the morning. A question if I may... you equate hunting with a camera to kissing one's sister...can I assume from that remark that killing the animal is integral to enjoying the sport? I know, tough question. No disrespect intended however.

RAH, I hear you when you talk about having your own land, and working hard to achieve your goals. I'm right there with you, and know how challenging and rewarding the process is. I do have a question or two, very much along the same lines as what I've asked Dave.

Why do I catch a trophy fish, and you take a trophy deer? "Catch", is a benign word, much like "Take". But that's somewhat misleading isn't it? Catching a trophy fish at least allows for the possibility of releasing that fish unharmed, while taking a trophy deer really means killing it....correct? If I were to take your last post and substitute kill, or killing, in place of take, or taking, would that not paint a more accurate picture of the process? So why use "take" in the first place?

So I respectfully ask the same question of you that I put to Dave: Is the actual killing of the animal integral to your enjoyment of a trophy hunt? We can talk about management, improving the herd, and feeding those who are less fortunate, but in the end is all of that just secondary to the need to kill the biggest, best animal, for fulfillment of the trophy hunting experience?

Again, I realize this may be an awkward question, but then again, if it is uncomfortable, why? And what does that say?

Lots of mixed emotions Tony and I've dealt with them before.

Let me start by saying that if I ever walk up to a deer that I have killed and don't have a small, momentary, twinge of regret, I'll quit. Nuff said on that.

Yes, to me, hunting and killing go together. Denying that would be disingenuous. I can say that because of the overwhelming disappointment when I have missed a shot. That means that I worked hard, did everything right up to the conclusion, and failed. It's something like setting the hook and having the line break in the knot.

Ya know whats worse? Not recovering a wounded animal. In over 50 years of hunting, I've lost 3 and I remember each of them. That is going to happen if you hunt long enough. Some animals are so tenacious of life that they can seemingly go for miles with no blood pumping.

On the other hand, I have seen something much worse. In the early 1960's, I went camping at Possum Kingdom State Park. It's about 50 or so miles West of Fort Worth. No hunting was allowed. I saw big herds of starving, emaciated, deer. They had totally over grazed the range. When walking around we found a lot of dead ones. Local residents were trying to feed them but it was too little, too late. I can equate that to an over stocked pond with the resulting DO crash. In both cases, nature provides the equilibrium. But, that's not why I hunt.

Oh crap. Clicked on this thread again to see if anyone has posted any new hunting pictures or stories, but I see this philosophical discussion continues. And I can’t stop reading and thinking. Trying to understand your questions, sprkplug, is as painful as doing math. But even with a difficult math problem, I find it difficult to just ignore. So here goes…

I consider myself a trophy hunter and a meat hunter, depending on the calendar. 1st week of bow season I let everything walk knowing that there is a chance a big buck will make a mistake not realizing hunting season has begun again. I beat myself up with the effort involved to access and hunt remote and often mountainous properties where you have a better chance of seeing a big one. 2nd week and I’m trying as hard as I can to put one or more does into the freezer. The month of November I am again in big buck mode.

Now to try to answer your trophy deer / stun gun question… I think I’d like to at least try it and would probably continue it if that were the only legal way, but I seriously doubt it would be very satisfying. In a way, I think it would be moving away from a real hunt and towards something like a video game.

You see, as much as I try to keep neat and clean, the inevitable blood on the clothes is part of the overall process and therefore is necessary. Time and effort and money spent improving your land, hanging stands, etc. is necessary. The occasional difficult drag is necessary. Bringing it home for the family to see is necessary. The skinning and methodical butchering is necessary. In the last couple days, I’ve put probably 8 or 9 hours into boiling and scraping clean the skull of a nice big buck my 16-year old son killed, and that was all necessary. Finally, reliving the hunt as we prepare and eat the venison or admire a trophy on the wall, is necessary. These are all parts of the process, and while the kill is not the only part, without it many of the other parts would not be there either.

It would not be the same. And I agree, it would be like getting to kiss a pretty girl, only she’s your sister.

Vamaz, I think you are the first to come out and say what everyone reading this thread is probably thinking, including myself. Certainly killing is fundamental to hunting, but now we read that killing the biggest of the big is also fundamental to trophy hunting. Without a physical, tangible object that we can claim as our own, the experience is incomplete.

This apparent disparity between trophy hunting, vs. trophy fishing is fascinating to me. Why are we content to catch the fish of a lifetime, photograph it, (maybe have a replica made), and release it, but the notion of doing the same with a trophy deer (the electronic rifle scenario), is not satisfactory? It seems to me that stunning the animal would still require skill, time, practice,....and would still demonstrate the hunter's mastery over the animal. The difference being the lack of a physical trophy. It can't be food, as there are other, non-trophy deer to be taken to fill that need, so the only thing I can think of is...pride. The fourth "P". The need to say "look what I killed".

And I suppose that's why I will always struggle with the concept of trophy hunting.

Dave, as I read your latest post I was nodding in agreement. I've had my share of squirrels get hung up in treetops, and saw what remained of rabbits in my snares after a canine found them. It's painful, irregardless of the size of the animal. And you're right..when a hunter no longer feels that twinge, he or she has lost something vital. Something human.

vamaz, I know exactly what you are talking about when you describe the 1st week of bow vs. later on in the season. Here in Indiana, our hunting season (for all equipment) starts Oct 1 and usually goes until the first weekend in January. We are allowed only one buck per year unless we are also hunting in an urban zone, then we can take one buck in an urban zone and one out of an urban zone. So, for me, I'll wait until the end of December to shoot a buck, if I shoot one at all. I have a couple of trail cameras running continually from late September until the end of January to see what is in the area, and who makes it thru the hunting seasons. Every year there is usually one or two bucks that are on the "hit" list, either because of their large rack, or because of their small rack. The small ones? They have shown no growth in antler size for at least 2 years.

The big ones? Well, in the past 8-10 years I've only had them close enough to shoot twice. Once I passed on the biggest one because I didn't want to shoot him in the butt and waited for him to turn broadside. He did, but a tree was in the way for a clear shot, so I waited for him to walk past it. He never did, instead he turned and walked directly away, never to be seen again. The other one? It was #2 antler size wise and I knew #1 was around so I passed. The next year I heard a shot on the next property, with a bunch of whooping and hollering. A week later I see #2 laying dead in the woods from 50-60 Yds away. The back end was eaten out by coyotes, and I could not find a bullet entrance/exit in the rest of the carcass. Why they couldn't find the deer is a mystery to me, as it was in plain sight. I have the horns. I’ve never heard of #1 being shot, nor have I seen him again.

I’ll hunt with a variety of equipment, from archery to center fire rifles. I still get a bit shaky when I’m close enough to a deer that I can see their eyelashes, and any little noise on my part will send them running away, even the noise that two pieces of clothing rubbing on one another make. That’s part of the hunt too – being able to outwit a deer in their own home.

But, I also hunt with a rifle that is capable of shooting a critter that’s well over ¾ of a mile away, so I “get” the different perspectives on why people hunt with different equipment. To me, hunting is much more than just going out and shooting an animal, it’s the experience that you get while you are out hunting.

Getting to the catch vs. harvest vs. take vs. shoot vs. kill. The neighbor across the street hunts, and has 3 little girls. They are going through that same thing with the girls. I had a deer hanging after I washed it out and the girls saw it. Their comment? Oh look, Scott caught a deer! Mom & Dad are trying to explain that while “caught” might be appropriate, it’d be hard to let it go again. It’s all because of the PC crowd that the different terms are around. To me, “take”, “harvest”, “kill” is the same. “Shoot” to me doesn’t necessarily mean that I could put my hands on it – I could have wounded it and not recovered it.

Tony, let me go back to the experience thing, and how it relates to having something on the wall. For me (at least) having something on the wall is a daily reminder of the experiences I had while getting that animal (or fish or bird). I’ve been on many trips (fishing and hunting) where there is nothing but pictures and memories. If I don’t dig up the pictures, or if something doesn’t jog my memory, then those trips and experiences are forgotten. I’ve been on fishing trips on the ocean where I’ve seen some amazing things, but it takes something like writing this post to jog the memory of those trips. Being out far enough away from land in clean air to see the green flash the sun makes the instant it dips below the horizon as it sets, (try seeing that from land here in the Midwest!). Having a 1,000#+ Ocean Sunfish (mola) next to the boat basking in the sun, seeing a nuclear submarine come to the surface right behind the boat as you are pulling into the channel going to port, being out in a storm up in the wheelhouse with the captain, 15' above the ocean looking UP at a wave coming at you, those are some of the things that I’ve seen but not thought about recently.

I can look at the Mule Deer antlers and think about the 1,000 foot vertical climb up the mountain every day in the dark, (in some places on all 4’s because it’s so steep), trying to beat the sunrise. Watching the rising sun cast its red glow on the mountains and having a bald eagle soaring beneath me as I looked at the valley where the tent is in the campsite. Sitting overlooking a bowl at almost 10,000’ in elevation that’s over a mile in diameter with your feet dangling off a rock where one more step will take you on a ½ mile flight to the bottom. Taking a nap on a rock at mid day in 85°F temps when that morning you were scraping the frost off the 4-wheeler and had to melt ice to make coffee before leaving camp on the climb. Then rolling over and seeing a pile of dried bear poop that you didn’t realize was there earlier. (What, you mean there are BEARS up here??????)

The Pronghorn on the wall reminding me of the rock that I picked up, and noticed that the bottom was colored completely different than the top, then realizing that the rock was probably there in that spot, not having moved for thousands of years before I touched it. (Yes, I put it back exactly as I found it).

To me, that’s what having the thing on the wall means to me. Not the horns per se, but the memories that are associated with them. I don’t know if a picture would do the same thing for me.

Scott I agree on the PC issue. Killed is killed, irregardless of the terminology. So why use taken in the first place? It appears to be a way of making an unpleasant circumstance sound better...If we recognize that it's unpleasant, then why do we do it? Like when the govt. appropriates private property for public use... no matter what wording they use, they still took the land against someone's will. No getting around that.

Would a replica deer/horns mount invoke the same memories?

In the end I've gone about as far as I can with this subject, and I do appreciate everyone's input. I will never understand how removing the best genetics from a population of anything can be deemed beneficial, or admirable, but that's just one confused Hoosier's take on it. I agree with what RAH stated earlier. Hunt as you will, and be glad we are afforded the privilege. My apologies for sidetracking this thread.

Peace.

With deer hunting, "take" = "kill". I did use "take" in my post to be PC. I have answered coworkers when they ask me if I caught a deer yet, that I have never caught a deer, but perhaps I could start using a lasso. I do not pressure anyone that does not want to hunt, to take up the sport, and neither of my kids have the bug. to each his (or her) own.

Here's the nice 7 point my son got during the black powder season, his biggest by far.

I never thought about that, but to me, if they matched what I saw and had the opportuntiy to kill, I believe so. Now, getting the replica to match what I saw would be the hard part. How would that be accomplished if it was a skin mount vs. a european mount, and how to match the uniqueness of that particular set of headgear?

re: the best genetics. For me, if I had the opportunity to kill a deer/elk/pronghorn with a weird set of headgear vs. a perfectly symmetrical specimen, I'd go for the weird one every time.

For instance, this:


vs this:

If you ask most of my friends that know me they would say I am a trophy hunter.. IMHO I am the furthest from it, for I have passed many would be considered trophies and use what I shoot... I hunt for my own satisfaction and the memories that are made... I have hunted most of my life in Illinois, which used to be the premier whitetail deer state.. I have been asked many times what my dream hunt would be and the answer is always the same, "I live it every November"!

There are already people doing the electronic shoot and release deer hunting, I saw a show on TV and thought to myself, Hmmmmm?..

As for the PC crowd I walked into church just the other weekend and a lady asked if I had "caught a deer yet' and my reply in front of several of the ladies cleaning up after fellowship was "you kill deer, you catch fish"...

As for killing the biggest deer in the woods from a management stand point is they have already done there job if they have lived to maturity, those genes are in the herd or area.. Just a couple of years ago I killed a very large deer that was probably past his prime... He dressed over 250 lbs and rack was on the down slide.. This deer had been running in the area for years and did everything to elude cameras and hunters.. With his body size and experience in the field he ran deer off the property that would score a lot higher..



I stand 6'4" and weigh 225 for reference..


So back to the would you hunt if killing wasn't involved? I do it all the time.. I have pictures of hundreds of deer that I easily could have killed.. Do I feel I am hurting the deer herd by removing maybe the biggest deer in an area?. No, the genes are already there and might be better if a buck moved in from another area and bred with the best doe in the area..

So good luck to all, shoot straight and set the hook before it's too deep!!!

I trophy hunt on Craigs list, garage sales and auctions. I bought a HUGE Caribou a few yrs ago and have told a different lie as to how hard the hunt was to each person that's dumb enough ta ask. Man, I had ta crawl a half mile through the thickest swamp in the Tundra.
I've got a small 8 point that has one point broken off and a boar that looks like a domestic pig. Tell some good lies about that one also. My granddaughter got mad at me when I said it was the neighbors pet but sure did taste good.

Bob, I recently got stuck by some Barbed wire(bob wahr). It made 2 punctures about an inch apart that scabbed over. About a week later 2 of my Granddaughters, 12 and 16, came over. One noticed it and asked what happened. I told them "Aw, I got rattler bit again.". One asked what happened. I told them that it made me mad so I broke its damn neck. It took about a minute for them to wise up when one told the other that Grandpa was lying again and that snakes didn't have necks. I told them that they do have necks, just not shoulders.

They're both blondes so I'll get them again.

BRAVO DD

I have two blonde daughters so I totally understand

Hey, lets not pick on blondes !!! I have grey hair and am easily fooled. I think it's an age issue.

Well, shoot.

I had intended to be done with this thread, but now another angle has presented itself. I will be the first to admit that I know next to nothing about genetics, but something mentioned earlier has really stuck with me. That being the notion that trophy deer genetics are "already in the herd" if nature has run her course, thereby eliminating the need to keep the biggest and best trophy deer alive.

I'm not always real clear at trying to explain what I'm thinking, so I often tend to use an example to illustrate where I'm going with a topic. Please bear with me.

Let's say you raise racehorses. And you get the chance to utilize the stud of all studs in your breeding program....this guy is a proven champion, multiple winner. Obviously you want those genetics, if at all possible.

So you show up at the farm, and are given a choice: You can have Mr. perfect, with his established track record, OR, you can utilize one of his offspring, a young horse, new to the racing circuit, unproven but hey, he's got those genetics, right? The costs are the same for either one.

Which one do you choose? I'm pretty sure I know where I want my money spent. On the horse who obviously has good genetics, and has proven that on the track. Maybe junior would work just as well, but why chance it? The big boy is standing right here, why would I choose to eliminate him from the picture? I KNOW he has the right stuff.

So using that line of admittedly, possibly flawed logic, how is removing a trophy deer with excellent genetics deemed acceptable? Sure, it might open the door for another buck to come in, but how do you know his genetics aren't worse than the ones from the animal you now have on the wall?

I'm not arguing, simply questioning.

If entering that great horse in a race to test his skill resulted in that horse never breeding again, when would you race him? At his prime? After his prime? Never?

I don't follow you?

In the scenario that I constructed, the evolutionary results of racing the "champion" horse is like shooting a big buck.

Okay, I was operating under the notion that the champion horse had been retired from his racing career, and his remaining value lied in his stud service? In other words, his further contributions were to be made in passing along those trophy, or champion genetics to another generation....just like that trophy deer is doing.

I wouldn't put that horse down simply because he was done racing, anymore than I would kill that trophy deer...do they not still have value, and much to offer, by way of sharing their trophy genetics?

Simpler answer to the scenario posed by RAH? Never. I wouldn't race the horse. Too much value in those genetics.

I have read a lot about managing deer even though as Scott explained earlier that in some areas like his and mine it's a waste of time to an extent... And what you are saying works in a controlled environment like a horse farm, pond, or high fence area... The problem with free range deer is they don't read the same books or use the same logic we do...

Inevitably that deer no matter if its the largest or smallest in the woods it is going to do its best to live, reproduce and eventually die... Left to go unchecked we all know where that goes... Is shooting the biggest buck in the woods right or wrong?.. I'll leave that up to you, that's what nice about this county...

Sean, you hit it right on the head with your comment about logic. WE use logic, or like to claim that we do anyway. Yet after all of these well thought out posts by members far more knowledgeable than myself, I still don't believe we have discovered the logic in removing the best genetics from a horse farm, pond, high fence area, or my local deer herd. We advocate LEAVING the best genetics in our ponds, and culling the less desirable fish. And yes, fish may be a little different, or have other influential factors in play, but the core message is still the same. Leave the desirable traits in play.

RAH asked me when I would race that horse... at his prime, after his prime, never? If racing that horse equates to killing that trophy buck as he indicated, then my answer stands. Never. Why would I? it's not logical to remove those genes from the playing field.

We can manage the herd by removing inferior specimens, and we can use those same individuals to feed ourselves and the needy. And if we truly have established that removing trophy genes is not logical, what reasoning are we left with?

I think we're back to pride, once again. "That's the biggest, bestest buck I've seen all season, and I'm going to kill it before somebody else does"

I see a huge difference between hunting vs. trophy hunting, but both are legal, and the decision to participate or not is left to the individual. And I think that's how it should be. But I also think that we owe it to ourselves, and the game we hunt, to be honest with ourselves and to stop and examine our thought processes once in awhile.

This whole thread turn has been so civil, let me throw another scenario out.

Short version...

Dallas Safari Club auctioned off a Namibian hunt for an old endangered Black Rhino at the January Convention. A local guy won that hunt with a bid of $350,000. All that money goes directly back to Namibia for preservation and protection of the existing heard.

Is he a hunter, a trophy killer, or a conservationist? I have my thoughts, but nobody but the guy himself really knows for sure. Much like any hunting, the motives may be different, but the result is ultimately the same.

BTW, I am a deer hunter. The only problem is I haven't found a perfectly marbled ribeye on any of them, so I don't hunt a lot anymore.

My vote is on trophy hunter... this hunt provides him with a chance to say look what I've killed.

Al, I totally agree on the civility. This thread certainly had explosive potential, but good character doesn't mind if you're a hunter, trophy hunter, or not a hunter at all. It still comes through with positive results. Good people here.

I hear you on the deer. I'll be honest, until our weekend with the Herman Bros I had never eaten Deer that I thought was good. That stuff Nate was passing around was so good I wanted to roll around on the floor rubbing my belly. Course' Yolk was there, and I didn't want to seem uncouth in front of him so I refrained.

Tony I was posting that question yesterday when you said you were done. I pulled it until you ultimately came back to the topic, which I'm glad you did.

Yolk is trouble everywhere he goes. If I was you, I would have eaten until I exploded. Only problem was the guy that could save you would be standing over you laughing. On second thought, maybe one shouldn't screw with the only doctor around.

I hear that Al. Come to think of it, hanging with the PB crowd actually has me in a fairly secure, all inclusive environment, what with a dentist and a physician in close proximity.

Twenty five years ago a pond enthusiast/bail bondsman might've been a welcome addition, but these days I don't normally feel threatened by his/her absence.

Yolk Sac...I hope he appreciates the sacrifices I make just so he may feel at ease. Reining-in my uncouthiness and all.

Why are you worried about a guy that models himself as something that is yellow and runny? That's the raw material for scrambled eggs.

Tony, we all appreciate your effort and in no way do I find you condescending re the Yolk.

OK, tongue is firmly removed from my cheek and we can talk about deer genetics. Yep, that monster has been spreading his genes since about 2.5 YOA. That is, if he doesn't get his butt whupped by a larger deer. And that larger, older, buck may have very inferior genetics and rack. A Kid killed a 7.5 yoa spike on my place last year that didn't look like much more than a pretty good sized greyhound dog. However, the reality is that, just like race horses and cattle, that big buck needs to breed with a doe with superior genetics to produce quality offspring. Of course, that's not his goal. Same as horses and cattle. Breeders of every kind keep careful records of both male and female cattle, sheep, horses and deer. That's why they advertise with terms like "own son" and "own daughter".

Take a look at the web sites of the deer breeders. By keeping careful records, they produce both outstanding deer and some that look like freaks.

But, they all taste the same.

Good points Dave. And since that older buck has an inferior rack, would it be more likely he would be passed up by a trophy hunter, leaving him free to pass along those inferior genes? Perhaps he might be more inclined to meet his demise at the hands of a meat hunter, possibly enabling the younger, genetically superior buck to fill the void? Speaking hypothetically, in a best case scenario of course.

Also agree on the doe issue. Good genetics are certainly not confined only to bucks.

Genesis 1:29-31 ESV / 41 helpful votes
And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

I shoot whatever comes along, whether it is a trophy or a nice fat yearling because I have permission.

In thinking about wild deer herd management, a landowner only as so much ability. At the state and county level, some states, like Indiana, have gone to a one buck rule and liberal doe permits to copy states that have successfully increased their trophy take. One can argue about why it works, but not about if it works. To get more trophies, bucks need to reach maturity, and smaller bucks must get out-competed with mates. Some hunters may also pass on those easy shots at stupid young bucks in the hopes of bagging a larger one later. I shot a lot of small deer in my first 10 years of hunting, but have switched to being more selective over the last ten years as the challenge of taking smaller animals has lessened. Ultimately, state wildlife biologists, not a popular vote, set the hunting regulations, and I am good with that.

Great point Tony. Since I'm not a deer breeder I am part of the problem instead of the solution. But, that further assumes that I am trying to manipulate the deer population. I'm not and really can't. These suckers are wild animals.

In Texas, we are legally allowed to take 2 does, one spike(at least one unbranched antler)and one buck with a minimum of 13 inch wide rack. The 13 inch rack law is an effort by TPWD to keep hunters from shooting younger bucks. That makes sense because everyone was a buck hunter and the goal was to kill anything with antlers. If you were a hunter, you killed male deer of any type and size only. BTW, that one unbranched antler could/can be the result of the antler being broken off in a fight. On my land, if the unbroken antler clearly shows that it had a superior rack, that buck gets a pass. We have quite a few bucks that, due to genetics, will never be legal to kill. Although we eat everything that we kill, we don't kill everything that we could eat.

The 2 does part comes from TPWD trying to reduce the number of deer that compete for forage. However, the does that we eliminate from the herd might also carry the genes that we desire. We will never know about that part. At one time, most of Texas had way too many deer for the forage base. That was the result of being precluded by law from shooting does. At that time we could shoot 2 male deer of any kind but no does. So, a lot of the state wound up with a bunch of runty, skinny, undersized deer about the size of a large dog. That has changed for the better in those areas.

However, in my area, we had what the State called too many deer but they were still very healthy. I rarely even saw a spike. We had herds of good sized does that came out into the wheat in front of my house at all hours of the day. They weren't hunted so had no fear and the doe herds averaged about 20 animals. We loved it and they sometimes bedded in our front yard. Then the law changed and the deer became mostly nocturnal. No more sitting on the front porch with a pitcher of margaritas and watching the deer herd. I think, again, in my area we fixed a problem that didn't exist.

The wild card is that we have been under drought conditions since then that would have affected the deer numbers, health and body size.

That same drought has also affected other wildlife. Quail are gone. Armadillos, possums and foxes were everywhere and now, although we never molested them, seeing them is rare. It does not seem to have bothered the coons. All of those things get a pass on my place because I don't believe in using wildlife for target practice.

We now have feral hogs that the media and TPWD calls a serious problem. There is no closed season on them and we are encouraged to shoot every one that we see. I have hogs but really haven't seen that they are a problem. They have muddied up a couple of small water holes but that's no big deal. They are nocturnal so we rarely see or hunt them. If someone wants to shoot one while deer hunting, it's OK with me as long as they eat it.

BTW, this got a lot longer than I intended.

If anyone hasn't seen it, the current issue of Field & Stream devotes a lot of pages to deer hunting. I haven't read the mag in its entirety yet, but T. Edward Nickens has a great piece on butchering a deer for food. It fits in well with this thread, and resonates with me personally also.

Dave, you and I and others know that we have prolific deer hunting in Texas because of deer hunters.
If not for licence fees paid by hunters and income generated by purchases from every thing from guns and ammo to feed feed and seed purchases and all the other stuff bought from by big box stores, we wouldn't have any deer to hunt.

We had no deer in East Texas after WWII, as well as other areas until TP&W stocked Hill Country deer.

As you know, deer hunting generates lots of benefits to our Texas economy.
George

My grandfather talks about how the deer, sunfish, SMB, river otters, mink, bobcats, etc. etc. were all scarce in the 40's because he and thousands like him had to harvest them all to eat or sell for fur in the 30's. No one really paid much attention to limits or tags and revenuers were run off by feisty locals.

The Missouri Department of Conservation has done amazing things since then. We now have world-class SMB fisheries, (too many) deer, and our neighbor's kid traps otters every winter. We have seen mink tracks on the muskrat runs. There's a bobcat that lives down by the creek. Hunting and fishing licenses (and their enforcement) help support all of this.

Dave D1

My place is in Freestone county and they are still alittle backwards thinking on does. The 13" rule is in effect and has worked . Problem is we can't take any does other than bow season. You know how crafty they are to hunt with a bow! We are run over with does.Sometimes up to 20 to 1 does to buck. By not allowing does the meat hunters are killing way to many bucks outside the law. Parts of Texas allows does and some don't. We try to manage our herd but as said earlier you can only do so much.the state can mandate rules but the landowner has to follow up on it to work properly.


Pat W

That is great strategy to increase the herd size and reduce trophy bucks. Glad Indiana has followed other states where trophy takes are steadily increasing.

I see where our local state park will be closed a few days this season in an effort to try and reduce the deer population. They seem to have no problem finding folks willing to try and fill the freezer, there's always more participants than there are slots available. Meat hunting appears to be alive and well down here, as I don't imagine there are too many trophies in that herd.

Hi Pat, our place in Freestone County, near the small community of Dew, is only a few miles from you.
My sons are avid deer hunters and have formed a TP&W conservation area with neighbors. They have to keep records as to how many bucks taken, how many does observed, numbers of hunters, etc.
As a result of prior year survey, a number of doe permits will be issued.
That and the 13 inch rule has helped immensely - only one "trophy" buck has been taken the past two years - none taken so far this year. Does are taken by youngsters or for meat at end of season.

You might want to check with TP&W about this program?
George

Maybe there's a ridiculously simple answer and I'm showing my ignorance by even asking the question, but how do you know the buck has a legal spread before you kill it? Thirteen inches??

Because of my past post, I want to be clear. A doe or buck of any age is a great trophy for a beginning bow hunter. Sportsmen and sportswomen just typically keep pushing themselves to be more accomplished at their sport. Depending on your geography and local situation, the goals may vary widely. BTW - I want to add my voice to the the praise of the civil discussion that can occur on this site. I don't think that Bambi came up once!

George1
We are going to try that but most landowners around us are to greedy to even care what is legal and what isn't . Basically like has been said before kill it before your neighbors can. Very sad. I've called the GW on one that has killed at least3 bucks at the minimum ( have seen them) two of which are illegal. Going to work with the state to try to educate these pine knots and get a handle on this mess if possible.

Pat W

Sparkplg
The state says that when the buck is looking at you the antlers should be outside the ears. It's not perfect but is a guide. Problem is getting the buck to look your way so you can tell if it is wide enough. It changes the way you have to hunt.


Pat W

Huh. Wouldn't have thought of that. What's the penalty for killing one that doesn't measure up?

Sprkplug
Not sure probably at descresion of warden. You will be shot at dawn with a small caliber rifle! Lol

Blatant violations can be loss of license, guns, equipment, and replacement cost of deer.


Pat W

Tony, after awhile you kinda get used to judging width. Like Pat says, the rule of thumb, as quoted in the TPWD Hunting and Fishing Guide, involves the width of the ears when fully extended. But that can be iffy. If you're not sure, don't shoot. I have seen some bucks that are big, older, healthy and have large racks. However, since they go almost straight up instead of out, they will never be legal to shoot.

These days, the GW's discretion is usually to write a ticket.

DD1

We got a few of those, one we call Tall Boy that goes straight up and not out. The system isn't perfect but it is a start. Education in judging age should be the next step in the process. It's not that hard if you know what you are looking for. Also being able to harvest does will take some heat off of younger bucks


Pat W

I think it is also important to be able to judge age. That is a work in progress for me. I'm getting better but can still be error prone. One of the Kids that hunts my land shot a spike last year. It had a wedge shaped head, short spikes and was a runt. One look and I knew it wasn't a young deer. After it was in the ice chest, it weighed 36 pounds. When we pulled the lower jaw bone to age it, we figured it was 7.5 years old and just about at the end of the trail. I'm glad it is out of the gene pool. It was with a couple of younger bucks, about 2.5 yoa, that are probably going to be good deer someday and was chasing them away from the feeder. It wouldn't have gotten away with that aggressiveness with older bucks or does. I have seen other spikes with that deers genes. They have been younger but I know we don't see them all.

To learn to age deer, go to the Texas Hunting Forum. They do this all the time.

In the latest issue of PB magazine, Bob Lusk talks about the importance of genetics, and the need to evaluate/cull specimens as individuals rather than lumping them together under a particular size umbrella.

Certainly he was talking fish, not deer, but in light of this last week's conversation his thoughts appear at least somewhat relevant, if not downright timely, regarding the discussion.

BANG BAMBI !!!!! Might as well nuke a whale or two while we're at it.

And this was so civil!


Pat

Pat, that was civil and very conservative. I am a very compassionate and considerate guy. Ask Dr Condello.

Bob O all in good fun on serious topics



Pat w

Indeed

Here is my 2014 deer. I have very few days to hunt this year with work and the kids hockey chewing up most of my time. I took opening day off and started out hunting first thing in the am seeing a big 5x5 half a mile from home but couldn't get a shot off. I moved to the other end of the 1/4 section at noon to see if I could rattle the 5x5 in but this guy showed up and I shot him at 100yds with my rifle. We have lost 70% of our deer population from the last 2 harsh winters so I was pretty pleased. ://[/img] The roads were closed on the second day of hunting due to freezing rain so work was canceled and I took the wife rattling for her whitetail. We called this guy in to 150yds and she made the prefect shot with her rifle to finish off our 2014 season. /[/img]

Wow, what did those guys weigh? 70% loss is hard to imagine.

Those where two nice mature deer. my friends over by Lake Lenore have a couple of very mature (HUGE) mule deer that hang around their house in the winter. I would love to get a shot at one of them.

Saw a first for me in the wild on the trip up there this year, Elk saw three of them one evening while scouting.

The elk and moose numbers are rising but the deer could use a couple of easy winters. I have never weighed a deer but some outfitters say in that 300-350lb range on the hoof.

Oh Canada........

Very nice Blair.

Nice Bucks !! 70% losses would really bum me out if that happened on my place here is NE Texas. I have 175 acres and I do yr round food plotting and have expanded each yr. It has grown to somewhere around 16 acres of such things as Clovers, Rye Grains, Oats, Soybeans. Do you think something along those lines might improve survival of your deer? We might be able to keep some nice bucks in the E Texas Area if we could keep the night riding poachers in Jail

So the nighttime poachers are deliberately targeting bucks?

This post from Sprkplug is worth repeating especially for those interested in growing better wildlife.


The article is titled: 'My Fish Won't Grow' in the Nov-Dec 2014 issue of PBoss magazine. A very worth while read for growing better quality fish and animals. It takes a good management plan and knowledgeable effort.

Tony, road hunters worry me. I occasionally stay up past 9 PM, very occasionally, and when you see a pickup slow driving down a rural road at that time of night, you can bet they're scouting. I have several deer feeders out, and none of them are between the house and the road. I usually see 20-30 deer a day here, and a night time shot towards the house is something I really try to avoid by keeping the feeders out of sight.

I pulled old duck decoys out of the pond last month, and 2 of them were shot up. Road hunters apparently take skillet shots also.

Al, do they retrieve the animal or leave it where it fell? The reason I ask is to try and determine motive. Why take such a risk in the first place? Do they need the food? Are they after trophies?

When I was in my teens many years ago, I was involved in two instances of shining/poaching deer. I wasn't the shooter, but I was there, so I was guilty also. From my point of view, it's a terrifying experience. A .222 at 1 am is somehow twice as loud as the same rifle fired at 3 pm in the afternoon.

So why do it? In my case, it was strictly food. Not for myself or my family, but for someone else. That doesn't mean I condone this type of behavior, as I most certainly do not. But there's a massive risk involved in poaching deer...what would cause someone to assume this risk?

Food? Pride? Boredom?

If it were food, wouldn't they kill the first animal they came across, and not wait for a buck?

I'm not proud of what I did all those years ago, as I was raised better than that. But at the time, I believed the circumstances warranted the actions. That doesn't make it right, or appropriate, however.

Tony, things you've done in the past are a part of what made you the man you are today. Been there, done that.

I can't speak to the reasons deer are shot off the road, but getting venison has to be part of it. The only time I've ever seen a deer killed for the antlers alone was in Kansas while I was pheasant hunting. A 200+ pound deer was laying in a ravine, with his head gone. The rest of the deer was left to rot, and that really was a sad scene. The senseless killing of a animal like that is truly something I can't understand. Here at least, that person would get hammered by TPWD if he/she was caught.

Firelshot
The key word there is if they get caught. I got a whole other story about that.

Pat W

Blair

I did notice a lot more Moose than usual this fall. Saw 6 while hunting geese where we a usually lucky to see one on the trip

Tony,
I gave up trying to figure out others behavior a long time ago. I don't understand people shooting game just to let it rot in the field. I've never done it...wasnt raised that way. I will report them to the authorities. You have to trust the game wardens to enforce the law. Those guys are more hi-tech than you think. We had an incident on a lease a few years back. Buck shot from the road. GW's came out with tire tread and boot tread catalogs. They do DNA testing on deer. They are nothing short of CSI for wildlife. They caught the guys. A father n' son...sad, a father teaching a young man that type of behavior. Felony offense to shoot a rifle from a road in Texas. Father took the heat....
Charlie

Last year, my neighbor had a section of pine trees thinned and sold. These pine trees were next to my land and harvesters to me about the two big bucks they saw on my place (next to the pines). I did not want to talk about the bucks, but had been watching them grow out for the 2 yrs prior. Many photos of these bucks and was letting them age. Both bucks were poached within a week after the thinning. They cut the heads off the bucks and left the meat on the side of the rode. We discovered the bucks at my gate next to the blacktop road. Contacted the game warden and there was not much he could do. Or he showed little interest.:(

Then this would seem to be a case of pride also. They were after trophies, not meat.

I've never had any work performed by a taxidermist, but is there any paperwork needed to have a deer mount prepared? As in, you need to show a tag to the taxi to verify legality on the part of the hunter. This wouldn't stop someone from purchasing a tag and poaching deer anyway, but perhaps it would cut down on some of the illegal kills?

No specific regs here for Taxi.

Nothing really cuts down on poaching but jail, stiff fines, loss of gun and hunting rights.

I would have trouble being proud of a road shot or spotlighted animal.

Hunting is expensive. There is very little public land in Texas so it has to be leased from a landowner. The price keeps going up due to Corporate interest. I have a small place; only 133 acres. I've been offered $25-$30 per acre for the hunting rights. The teens that hunt my land don't have parents that could afford it. The average guy with a family is being/has been squeezed out.

So does this misrepresent the public hunting opportunities in Texas?

http://www.tpwmagazine.com/archive/2011/sep/ed_1_publichunting/index.phtml

DD, that is exactly why the cost of a ticket to see a ball game or hockey game prohibits most blue collar worker from taking his 2 kids and wife to do most anything. I took my daughter to see YES last yr and the tickets were $50 but ONLY $10 to park.
I am happy and thankful that I was able to purchase a turkey for .89 per lb. and gas is $2.70 a gallon. Now I can afford to go set outside of the local race track, eat a cold turkey sandwich and listen to the thunder.
Ooops, almost forgot. Thank the good lord that ponds are so inexpensive to build and maintain. Just love those Tilapia at $24 a lb.

Tony:

State Park hunts are popular for a couple of reasons.

1) They allow you to take 3 more deer, so yes, the freezer benefits.
2) They also allow you to have one buck as one of those 3 deer, and because the areas are typically not hunted (only 4 days of the year) there are larger bucks in the parks.
3) The Park hunts are free. There is no license to purchase, no fees generated by the hunters for the Parks.

The hunts are done on the Monday and Tuesday after the firearm opener, and the Monday and Tuesday after the firearm season closes. You have to have your Hunters Safety Certificate, and the hunts are done on a lottery basis only. Hunting hours are different than the regular hunting season - 1/2 hr after sunrise to 1/2 hr before sunset. The parks are broken up into zones, and you are tolk where you should hunt. They regulate that by having specific parking areas, but once out of the vehicle they don't check to see if the hunters are in the correct zone.

At Potato Creek State Park by me, the first year the rangers cut off and kept all the antlers to prevent guys from strictly going in to trophy hunt. There is an orientation meeting that you have to attend a week or so before the hunt, and you are told to shoot the first 3 deer that you see, but only one can be a buck. If people are caught passing up a buck when they haven't shot one, then the park will go back to confiscating all antlers. There are a number of large bucks shot every year in a park during the hunts because they are a safe zone for them during the regular hunting season.

But, by no means is it shooting fish in a barrel. The hunting is just as hard as it is out of the park. Not only do you have to out think the deer, because of the hunter density, you have to out think the other hunters. I've been there during the hunts, and set up in a great funnel area, only to have a hunter set up 150 yds away further up the funnel and intercept the deer that were coming my way before they got to me.

Sounds like a pretty liberal relaxation of normal policy, regarding taking deer. And from my way of thinking, that makes sense as they need to thin the herd.

This issue of costs intrigues me also. As a non-deer hunter myself, killing a deer appears on the surface to be an extremely cheap way to get meat. I see deer nearly every day on my property, often at the same times and locations. A little forethought, and a single 20 gauge slug fired from a gun I already own, would yield a pretty decent return on the investment in my opinion?

I would obviously still have substantial time invested in dressing and butchering the animal, and some related expenditures in packaging materials, but it certainly doesn't appear prohibitively expensive.

And for a lot of folks around me, that's just how it's done. It's cheap meat. I can see where trophy hunting might, like most every other hobby, be taken as far and as extreme as one desires. But just to kill for the freezer, would appear to require very little.

When you shoot at them, they wise up fast.

Tony:

You are correct. If you have the gun, the clothes and the required license (If it's required - there are exemptions for some landowners), and butcher the animal yourself, it is cheap meat. You'll get roughly 40% of deboned meat from a deer.

Out-of-state hunts is where the $$ start adding up fast.

Tony, we also eat it. But, I don't just hunt for the meat.

I understand Dave. And I honestly have no problem with legal deer hunters, no matter their philosophy for doing so. I may not deer hunt, but I allow my neighbor to hunt on us every year. He was in to see me yesterday, to make sure it was still okay for him to do so this weekend. He wasn't real happy when I told him It was fine with me, but I planned to spend some time on the tractor and bush hog Saturday or Sunday, opening up the wooded trails. He's got a doe somewhere else, and he wants to kill a buck on me. That's fine, trophy or not.

As I've said, my reason for posting in this thread was simply one of curiosity. I've never been a trophy hunter, and fail to see the logic in removing the best genetics from anything. I simply wanted to hear what others had to say, and maybe provide some food for thought.

Tony, here's a question for you, and there's certainly no right or wrong answer. Do you feel the same way about fish or bird mounts?

Tony, at some point, a lot of older guys start hunting with a camera. I understand that but it seems like that is about like kissing your sister. It's still a kiss but...... Al Hall is now at that stage and I certainly understand it. I'm dang near there but the teenagers that I take hunting certainly aren't. Those guys are apex predators but have learned how to age a deer on the hoof.

And, if the genetics were a one time thing, I might look at it differently. If I catch a really big fish, it is usually at the end of it's life and it has spread its genes. I've never mounted a big fish but let them go back. That fish or deer is also the result of generations of genes that they have also passed on. In the case of a managed pond we have some level of control over what makes up the population. But, not so in wildlife. An obviously inferior buck can mate with a doe with great genetics and the result becomes a wild card.

We are told to shoot spikes. However, there are lot of documented studies showing that some young spikes become outstanding deer. Others never make it. So, we just don't shoot young deer.

I've seen very large deer over a several year span that suddenly I never see again. Although they usually go nocturnal, they are no longer there even on the game cams at night. I figure a cold winter and predators(coyotes) probably got to them. An awful lot of older deer don't survive even our comparatively mild winters. In the case of a buck, the rut that occurs in late fall and early winter really hammers their body. Some get injured in fights that they succumb to. That winter also kills off the preferred browse/forbs/weeds. That's the main reason that I plant the winter wheat in my no hunting area in front of the house. Does it help? I really don't know but figure it can't hurt. I often over seed with turnips to give them the leafy browse that they really prefer over the cereal grains. Once again, I don't really know the result. And, my goal really isn't to try to grow great deer, but just to POSSIBLY help the population in January and February. I'll be putting out a lot of high protein rice bran this Winter.

We enjoy sitting at the window just watching them. We also enjoy making a pitcher of margaritas and sitting back in the brush watching. Those deer are known as Grandma's deer and the teens know that they are off limits around the house. Yeah, they get frustrated but know not to mess with Grandma. She has a mean streak when it comes to her deer. One of the boys told my Grandson that messing with Grandmas deer could get you a whole bunch of whoopass that he wouldn't forget. I doubt that she would really mind but I'm not telling them that.

These guys don't get a free ride. They do some work when there that they consider me too old and feeble to do. One, a new Kid, is incredibly pampered and lazy. I'll soon correct that. And, like it or not, they are always given lectures on drugs, booze, unprotected sex, etc. Does it help? Probably not but it can't hurt. My Dads lectures didn't do much for me. I had to learn on my own and Dad was a champeen lecturer.

Al, I would have to say yes. My first thought when viewing a trophy mount is not one of appreciation, rather I'm wondering about the circumstances that surround it. Was it a deliberate trophy pursuit? Was that big fish taken on a charter, where the goal was one for the wall? Was that trophy turkey sighted on numerous occasions, where killing it evolved into a goal in it's own right? ("I've seen that big gobbler twice now...he's the one I want!")

Or was that trophy fish taken by chance, and that big turkey happened to be the first one that was called up?

And like we've discussed earlier, catching a trophy fish does not automatically mean that the animal has been killed, unlike a turkey or deer. What was the angler's motivation in deciding to keep (kill) it?

As I've stated before, I believe the decision to trophy hunt is a personal one, and should not be decided for you, by someone else. But I do think that trophy hunters, and ALL hunters for that matter, should periodically stop and re-examine their reasons for doing what they do. Is it practical or logical to remove the best genetics? Or is it a case of pride in doing/having/killing the biggest and the best?

Tony, then I completely understand your position.



Dave, I'm there because my stupid deer are smarter than me. I've had 20-30 deer a day eating corn at my feeder, which sits right beside my tractor shed. It's hard to get motivated to hunt when they'll just stand there and stare at me when I go outside. They're surviving not by guile, but by turning themselves into pets. They must know I have a soft spot for resident wildlife, and they're taking full advantage of it.

Al, that's sorta like Grandmas deer. But, those suckers bolt if we go outside.

We also something similar to Grandma's deer. We call them Sanctuary deer. 50 acres has been set aside for a place where no hunting is allowed. This place consist of 1/2 acre food plot, lots of acorn trees and lots of thick cover. We do not go into this place during deer season. And where it is located, we can watch some of the deer through the windows and from the patio. And for me and deer hunting, is with a bow. Which means I have to get closer and makes it a tougher hunt. And I pick out an older buck and make him my target. I swear the older bucks are smarter than me

We have several multi-acre blocks of overgrown Christmas trees that we never set foot in, anytime of year. This is for the deer, rather than for viewing. My hope is that this is where the deer with good "stealth" genes can hide to avoid being pushed (intentionally or not) during the gun season. I also hope that this is where the does feel safe and attract in the big bucks during the rut. It has been working for me. I agree on the older bucks. The one that I shot this year was new to me and never captured on the trailcam.

Dave, I found this on spike deer. While I'm not 110% sure that every deer that is pictured is the same deer like the article says, I think the majority of them are. But, I don't have as much time viewing deer as others, so I'll defer to their comments.

http://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/galleries/photo-gallery-from-buttons-to-booner

Think turkeys know what day of the year it is? Day after TG and 26 (as near as we could count) were in the front yard of the new house this morning. My cell phone camera sucks but if you zoom you can see them.

Dave,

I planted the back two acres of my little 6 acres plot in high grass prairie for the same reason. The deer have really taken a liking to it. Keep up the good work. It is lots of little efforts that can make a big difference!

My dad's philosophy on hunting. If a guy showed up at our farm in an old beatup pickup looking desperate to feed his family asking to hunt, no problem, sure you can hunt. If 2 or 3 guys showed up in a new caddy with semi shot guns, sorry I do not allow hunting on my land. I follow the same.

PS
My dad didn't talk much. He let his belt do his talking!

Esshup

I watch DEER AND DEER HUNTING on TV and have learned so much about deer and all aspects of deer hunting that I can make real good on the hoof judgment of age. Charles Alsheimer is very good at what he does. If a person wants to get educated on whitetail those guys know.


Pat W

I got extremely Sick for 3 weeks including rifle season and only got to hunt twice, but I managed to get my yearling I was after for steak meat. Now I need a old doe or buck for burger during muzzleloading season.

Dang nice bucks everybody!

Desperate times call for desperate measures. We haven't had much rain at our property so my duck pond only has a little bit of water. Got another pond right next to my duck pond so I built a siphon to move some water from one to the other.

Chris, what size pipe??

2"

Estimated 40-50 gpm.

Dang, that's an expensive brass ball valve!!!

.

Levee-burrower control.
Two down! ? more to go!
This one got a double-dose of Conibear.

There is a brass check valve on the other end as well. Had these left over that a customer didn't want so we didn't have to pay for them.

Water is draining slower than i thought so I'm going to let it drain until next weekend.

When buying a ball valve make sure you ask for a full flow. Big difference

Pat W

Nice job Kelly!! Several more to go?

Good going Kelly. Why are you picking on the babies? Where's Mommy and Daddy??

I have never had anything mounted but I do think there are times when it is ok. I plan to mount a fish next summer. As a first time pond owner with a new pond, that first fish taken is one I want to remember. My plan is to sit my wife down with a pole equipped with a #6 hook, a bobber and a red worm for bait. There is no species of fish in my pond that cannot be taken on that setup. Whatever she catches first, regardless of size, will be mounted and placed on the wall in our great room and always remembered as the "first fish."

I told myself that if I raised a HBG to 1.5 lbs I would have it mounted. Then we began catching a few that size, and I couldn't go through with it. And my management strategy for these fish places no emphasis on genetics....still couldn't do it.

I do hope to get past this hangup, however. I want a 2 pounder for the wall. Whether or not it will actually happen remains to be seen.

And that is what "trophy" wall mounts are for IMO. That very very special memory, not just anything to go on the wall.

.

Tony, there's always a replica mount. Most of the guys down here do this now, and all it takes is dimensions, and good pics. That's right in your wheelhouse.

Remember this thread? I have enough pics to still get a replica, but this is one I probably should have had mounted since she was already dead. I still couldn't pull the trigger on a mount, and I have no clue why. At the moment, it just wasn't something I could bring myself to do. Burial at sea just seemed to fit this particular situation.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=23908&Number=300329#Post300329

I really like the replica idea for our "first fish."

Bill D
How old is your pond? I don't see how you can refrain from trying to see howyour fish are
Progressing. I broke the barb off my hooks so as to not damage them as much. It is FUN! It might suprise you what you might catch. I know I was 😞



Pat W

Hey Pat,

Don't encourage me. I am having a hard time controlling the urge!

I started stocking the pond April 2014 with FHM. When they started successfully spawning and I saw lots of schools of frye in June, I stocked BG 3 to 6 inches and CC 7 to 9 in. SMB and 1 LMB 8 to 10 inch went in September timeframe after I saw at least some of the BG had successfully spawned. October stocked 5 to 7 inch YP, 2 to 3 inch PS and a bunch more FHM.

Soooo....I am thinking of wetting a line that first time next summer to see what I can see. Taking needle nose pliers and pinching the barbs down on the hooks is definitely the plan!

Welllll Bill I couldn't make it that long. LOL I use a tiny crank bait and so far haven't hurt any very much I don't think . It is fun to see them grow from sprouts to fish in about 7 months. Hang in there if you can.


Pat W

Hey Bill D.,
I hadn't thought much of doing any pond fishing myself, but Pat W. has been sending me pics of these nice crappie he's been catching. It's caused me to give this subject waaaaay too much thought. Watch out...Pat will get to ya....lol.
Charlie

Ooooooooooo gonna get to ya



That's what it's for!

Pat W.

Stickem look out your next

Ha Ha!...I am safe for know. I am thinking one of those little crank baits will just bounce on this ice till next April!

Hey Pat,

Have you ever tried using 1/8 oz Road Runners with a split tail grub on crappie? We slay them trolling when I go to Lake Olin in Kentucky in the spring. Chartreuse is the color they can't resist down there, black works well in clear water with bright sunshine.

Tx Game Warden Buck Rescue

Bill D

Haven't tried them yet but will, right now I catch them on jigs under a tiny cork and a plethora of baits.
Any other baits?


Pat W

Gosh dangit man you want all my secrets! Ok, just between us. I have property on a great private lake in central Indiana. For crappie there the bait of choice is a red head tube jig with a white tail retrieved real slow under a cork.

Intersting thing is last time I fished there for crappie I caught a couple really nice CC (3 to 5 pounds) on the same rig! I was amazed they hit that tiny bait.

Right or wrong, I have the best luck with crappie keeping the bait just above them. That is why I use 1/8 oz at Olin when trolling. Anything heavier drops me into the fish or below and they don't seem to be interested.

OK time to bring this thread back. Spent the Thanksgiving weekend hunting geese in NE IL. Friday and Saturday where good days with limits both days.

Now that's some yum yum !!

Wow.... Yall lucky to have big geese like that there. We lucky to see snow geese at 10,000 feet up!

Mmm

Pat W

Here is a little video of the last 5 on Saturday

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203136727967560

Is there much meat on those geese besides the breast? Do older geese have tougher more stringy breast meat? I would guess wild turkey has more and better meat than a goose?? Anyone?

I'll take wild turkey over goose in a heartbeat, but I realize I have had very limited experience cooking geese. We don't make a big deal out of hunting them, but do take one every now and then. I'd love to hear how those of you who hunt them regularly prepare and cook them.

A buddy of mine swears by smoking them. I haven't tried it so I can't comment on how good it is.

I take geese, grind the meat up with pork shoulder (Boston butt), mix it 50/50, and shoot it in some sausage casing, and smoke it....that is pretty hard to beat on taste. My 2 daughters don't eat a lot of game, but will fight you over a pack of goose/pork sausage. Don't knock it til you try it.

And yes Bill C., the older geese are tougher than the younger. Not so much stringy, as tough. Young geese still require many hours boiling and simmering in a pot when making gumbo.
Charlie

We weren't raised eating turkey, wild or domestic...we had either goose or pork for Thanksgivings. I was an adult before I ever ate turkey...and it was somewhat of a disappointment.

I encouraged our dog to chase them off the pond, but then he blew out his knee one day running back and forth on the face of the dam. So now we kinda got it out for them... Still, I can't justify shooting them 'cause we havn't found a way to prepare them that we really enjoy. Suggestions?? What about jerky?

Hey Charlie. Time for pay back. How about sending me that goose sausage recipe?

Bill

Vamaz,
I have shot it through a jerky gun as well. But the goose will still need to be ground and mixed with something like pork. The goose alone is too dry by itself. I shot the jerky mix on the screen of my smoker. It doesn't take long to to dry (cook) as well.

Bill D.,
You got it!!!! I'll email it to you.
Charlie

Got it. Thank you sir!

Charlie,

You should post that last picture of the finished product! Wow!

Bill

Venison / Pork Sausage 50/50 Ratio

Goose jerkey is good. I've only had it as ground, extruded jerky, but it was the same recipe as venison jerky.

Hey guys, I'm kinda of a novice with Goose meat but we do occasionally take one while hunting rabbit or squirrel and we push them up off of the pond. The few that I have had have been made into jerky and we love it. It is just basic so I am sure many others have better ways but we just slice it real thin and marinade for a few days in a gallon ziplock bag with a bottle of Dales meat marinade and liquid smoke(both available at Wal-Mart in the ketchup isle). It will be real salty but that is how we prefer it. Then dehydrate for a few hours, it does not take as long as venison or it will dry out and be real brittle.

I don't know about Canadian geese cause they don't make it down here but speckle bellies are great plucked and baked. Snows we breast out and smoke and they are good. Never tried them any other way


Pat W

Wild turkey is superior to wild goose in my opinion. Never had a spec so cannot speak about them but both Canadas and Snows are good as jerky, snack sticks, or smoked.

i prefer the wild Turkey, Brest cut into steak fingers and then chicken fry. Love it The goose if made into a duck-goose gumbo. I was told once from a couple of buddies (I don't like duck) I told them that's all I got. And when the gumbo was done in a large pot, not a tablespoon of gumbo was left. And now they like goose and duck lol

My deer for this year. Our bow hunters call him "that 6 point with the tiny rack and the big body."

King Ding-A-Ling!!!!!

Theo
That a Thompson encore rifle? What caliber is it? Nice body on a young deer


Pat W

.

Hey Theo - shooting pet deer again I see? I like the pic. Nice thing about your situation is if you don't get a deer you can always shoot one of your steers. Steers are much better eating. IMO it would be a 'real funny' if you had a steer in your trophy picture instead of a deer - ROTFLOL. We miss your posts buddy.

On second thought it would be even funnier if you had one of your RES sticking in the deer's mouth with the caption "This is what happens to you when you mess with my RES!

This just Ticks me off! I was talking to my buddy a little while ago that has an elk farm in Wisconsin. He had not seen one of his prize bulls in a few days so he went looking. Some @&$*! had jumped his fence, killed the bull, cutoff its head and left the 600+ pound carcass to the scavengers. This guy gets a large percentage of his familiy's income from those elk! His family suffers, but somebody got a trophy!

Edit: And its a 10 foot high fence!

I know nothing about elk. This happened late September/early October. Do elk even have a rack that time of year?

Yes they do

Close - it's a Contender, with a 24" MGM barrel in 357 Maximum.


Actually, it broke twice.

Well at least that part makes sense in some weird perverted way then. My buddy makes several hundred dollars each year off each of his bulls. I was amazed to hear this. When the rack drops he harvests them and cuts them into 4 or 5 inch long pieces. He sells them as dog chew treats at dog shows. A one inch diameter by 4 inch piece sells for $40 and he always sells out.

.

I hope they caught them too but doubt it. Where do you even begin looking for the bad guys? At least they took the meat. These guys left it to spoil. If you figure a 600 pound elk dresses out at 50%, you are talking 300 pounds of meat at a minimum of $10.00 per pound. Lost income to my friend's family.

.

THEO!!!!

Good shooting!! Congrats on the deer. Glad to see you're still around and kicking.

In your case, I hope it was some poor guy just trying to feed his family. Does not justify the act, but at least makes sense. In this case it was senseless killing. I am not a hunter but support those that do. In the absence of predators, if left unharvested, deer. etc are doomed to starvation due to population explosions. I love a good piece of vension, just don't have the heart to pull the trigger with all the semi-tame ones around my place!

My apologies to all for bringing up such an unsavory topic. I was just outraged when I heard this news and needed to vent my angry. As my newly adopted PBF family, I nominated you to talk to about it!

.

JKB,

I am heading for bed with that thought in mind. The elk in your case feed a hungry family. Thanks for talking to me. It really does help.

Bill

Nice, Theo!

.

Must have been old baler twine. That stuff is tough.

Nice deer to get out of the gene pool.

Where did you hit it?

BTW, when did you quit wearing flaky looking hats? That one looks too sensible for you.

I agree. Eating that deer makes perfect sense to me.

Theo, did you scare it to death. I even put my glasses on to try to see the bullet hole but no luck. Take care, Friend.

In the back hay field.







Entrance hole is on the left side, just behind the shoulder and a little above the midpoint top-to-bottom. Exit hole is just in front of the right shoulder - you can just see a bare-ish looking patch of hair a few inches to the right of my thumb. The shot messed up the (right) shoulder a little, and I believe clipped the spine, as the deer dropped immediately, was paralyzed in the back legs, and couldn't move both front legs properly. I put a second round threw his neck, top to bottom, to finish him.

The picture is after I washed the body off (in & out) with a hose, so that's why no blood remains.


I can fondly remember when both you and Bill Cody had a nice, dry sense of humor.

Mr Theo - Ah yes the good 'old days'. Being a moderator and competing with all the witty members tends to harden your prospective on humor. LOL I know,,,,, we mods are supposed to set the standard.

It has been a good deer year here. I took a medium sized doe in the front yard last Friday. I had my choice of seven that were not paying any attention to me until I pulled the trigger. And this was on the next to the last day of the two-week buck-rifle season.

That deer had more fat than I've ever seen before on a deer.

I don't know if that means we had a great growing season, and or if the animals are getting ready for another very bad winter.

I believe I've seen 5 deer this season that started 11/1. A massive acorn drop stopped just about all movement.

Been trying to take a couple does to manage the population during muzzle-loader season and had seen a herd both yesterday and the day before, but without a close shot. Yesterday I saw where they came out of one of our stands of overgrown spruce Christmas trees, and this evening I stood downwind about 40 or 50 feet in my appropriate dark green camo. On cue a nice big doe came out, and as it worked out, I had my 3rd heart short of the season (dumb luck). When the smoke cleared, it lay about 50 feet from where it was shot. One of the largest does I had ever shot, so I ran my hand over its head to be sure it was not a button. Went back to the house and grabbed the jeep and my wife to load it up. My wife said that is a nice doe!. Then she said, but it smells like a buck. My wife takes over when I shoot a deer, so I knew something was up. I went back to the head and saw that it was a shed. No bumps - just small areas where the antlers had been (probably a 1 1/2 year old). I will be cleaning up the guns for the year. So much for managing the herd for trophy bucks this year. Best intentions thwarted by early shedding antlers...

Well, look at it this way. What I learned after I did the same thing as you is this:

The bucks that are stressed the most, and in the poorest body condition drop their antlers first. Bucks in great health and that aren't stressed drop their antlers late. I've seen bucks with antlers in late Feb.

So, there's the possibility that the buck that you shot might not have made it thru the winter if the winter turns out to be a hard one.

The buck that I shot in late ML season a few years ago had a broken rear leg. The leg bone overlapped itself about 1 1/2" and was starting to fuse itself back together. There was a knot on his leg about the size of a small softball. When I shot it I thought "Dang, that's a huge doe".

This guy appeared in great shape and was big and fat (guessing between 170 and 180 lbs live based on the 200 lb weight of the mature buck I shot earlier). I think the rut is often especially stressful for bucks without big racks. I really cannot see how to consistently avoid making this mistake once the racks start dropping. Our herd has lots of food including browse, crop residue, and alfalfa fields, but I have noticed earlier shed the last three years. I may put out 3 mineral blocks instead of just one next year. I just need to put them where I will never hunt. I think in the middle of the evergreen blocks would be perfect.