After going through a tornado last year that destroyed my hometown of Dexter, Michigan, I am sending all my thoughts and prayers to the people of Oklahoma. I know that the storms are not over and the next few days will be worse than today. Please be safe and God bless.
After going through a tornado that destroyed my hometown of Dexter, Michigan, I am sending all my thoughts and prayers to the people of Oklahoma. I know that the storms are not over and the next few days will be worse than today. Please be safe and God bless.
Thank you. We really appreciate this.
Thanks Brian, greatly appreciated.
Tonight the whole country is praying
with heavy hearts for the Sooner Nation.
Just now watching the devastation on TV. Unbelievable destruction!
My thoughts and prayers are with everyone affected as well.
Keith
......the children....... The little souls who will never fulfill their achievements in life. One elementary school was flattened. The death toll is up to 51 from the last I heard.....
Our prayers go out to the people who were affected by the terrible storms in Oklahoma. We especially remember those who lost their lives and the families who grieve for them tonight.
This is just unfathomable. I cannot even begin to understand what it must be like to have been in Moore today, in 2003, or 1999.
The KFOR TV website has a list of places to make donations.
Here is a
direct link of how to help the tornado victims.
Watching the news this morning, it's almost impossible to absorb this whole situation.
Oklahoma, you and all of yours are in my thoughts and prayers.
I was watching the news while it was coming. They said that you would not survive above ground.
I know of nowhere to get underground.
No words. Following jludwig's link now.
No words. Following jludwig's link now.
Just did the same.
Pray for the strength and healing of the survivors and for those living who have lost loved ones. Those that have passed are now free from the pain of this life and are in a much better place. Grace and Peace to all who suffer!
Very well said Ewest.
My heart and prayers go out to all touched by such a event.
I was watching the news while it was coming. They said that you would not survive above ground.
I know of nowhere to get underground.
Dave,
How difficult would it be to build a storm shelter? Are basements the exception rather than the rule in your area? Just wondering.
Ok. has hard rock that is close to the surface of the ground. It is nearly impossible to build a basement there.
Are basements the exception rather than the rule in your area? Just wondering.
Very rare in Dallas.
One of the first basements I ever
saw was when I married a girl in Iowa.
And those are there for the pipes aren't they Cecil?
Those bars down in the basement are nice for man-caves!
We built a basement in our current house with a "safe" room in the basement for this specific reason. The safe room is made of concrete with a metal door and a foot thick concrete top.
A local TV station has been accepting donations since 7 pm last night. At one time, the line was backed up for over a mile and half. More than a gracious donation of supplies and volunteer efforts.
Numerous news stories of strangers helping strangers in the direct aftermath. Joplin was reported to be sending help last night as they experienced a similar event. Governor Perry has offered services to us also.
Some good news: Found 101 people alive overnight.
At this time, I must say a proud to be an Okie at this current time.
Thank you all for your prayers.
Ok. has hard rock that is close to the surface of the ground. It is nearly impossible to build a basement there.
Time to start using dynamite at least for school stom shelters. After two F4's or F5's taking nearly the same path It's say it's time. Surely if we can build a blast proof embassy the size of the Vatican in Iraq we can build a few underground storm shelters for our precious children.
Amen to the prayers for those in Oklahoma. Texas went through a slight mile wide hit-miss scenarios earlier. We are smacked in tornado alley season now. Prayers to all those who are facing about to go through rough time. With the drought seasons we've been experiencing, the tornadoes are not going to be less. Warm and cool air cells are generating larger and larger monstrous tornadoes as time progresses.
Lots of houses in Oklahoma have basements that leak. Ours does not leak as it was built based on a French drain system with a foot of gravel underneath to hold water and two sump pumps to remove this water as quickly as possible.
I think all concrete and block basements leak at some point don't they as they develop cracks? Conversely my log home has a wood foundation with gravel sidewalls and a drain system probably similar to jludwig, and it's stayed dry as a bone since we built it in 94.' I have heavy clay soil too.
I believe the wood is impregnated with something.
I cannot imagine what those poor kids went through in the schools. I don't even know how to react to seeing something like this, it is just mind-numbingly unbelievable. I hardly even know what to pray for as there are so many things these people have lost.
I can put up with 11-month winters in NY and 4 months of solid drought if I can avoid those "fingers of God".
I love to watch a good storm chaser video, but not if the storm is pulling off such horrible atrocities like this. Watching all of that debris fly around the tornado in the videos makes me wonder how many poor souls are rotating around in there at the time. Ugh.
Feeling awfully bad for OK today. Prayers go out to all of you.
As a note, another of life's ironies is we are able to build 15-course basements in areas where we don't really need them apart from having a tax-free workshop.
Cecil, we have clay soils that expend and contract creating a lot of foundation problems.
Like Zep says, I know of no basements in the area.
Growing up, we had relatives up near Denton TX. I remember concrete storm cellars scattered everywhere. They were all cracked, moldy and had standing water in them during the Spring.
A drop-in steel unit might be the best option, but I've only seen one of those locally.
It has interesting in talking with my mother last night about how many basements there are in this part of my town. We figured that a large percentage of houses had basements in the older part of town. 6 of 8 houses in our block have basements. But most of the basements around town leak but it is still a little something.
Prayers and donation have been sent.
Building a dry basement is possible, it just takes some foresight and planning. Good french drain system, elastomer coating on the outside of the basement walls. With that, even if the walls crack, the elastomer will not.
When I worked with my neighbor doing concrete repair, we put in a LOT of french drains around houses that had water problems /cracked concrete floors/slabs in So. Cal. That wasn't as good as building the house on a bed of gravel (with the footings into virgin soil) but it sure did minimize the water intrusion. You will get water going tury concrete too. Ever see white stains on block walls or concrete? That's where water is forcing it's way thru. In those instances, a good french drain system, and cleaning the inside surface and then coating with a good 2-part epoxy sealer that is formulated for concrete use will fix the problem.
Our soils mover around so much that basements and cellars just aren't effective.
Dave,
Is your land flat or is there some relief as in the potential for a walk in reinforced shelter?
If that's not an option I think I'd be building a concrete reinforced safe room in the center of any newly constructed home in tornado prone areas. Probably not cheap but how much are lives worth?
I'm considering something up here even though I do have a basement that is mostly underground.
Dave,
Is your land flat or is there some relief as in the potential for a walk in reinforced shelter?
If that's not an option I think I'd be building a concrete reinforced safe room in the center of any newly constructed home in tornado prone areas. Probably not cheap but how much are lives worth?
I'm considering something up here even though I do have a basement that is mostly underground.
Basements are nice......until your house takes a direct hit from a tornado and caves in on top of you. I'll stick with my reinforced concrete storm shelter that's EF-5 rated.
Dave,
Is your land flat or is there some relief as in the potential for a walk in reinforced shelter?
If that's not an option I think I'd be building a concrete reinforced safe room in the center of any newly constructed home in tornado prone areas. Probably not cheap but how much are lives worth?
I'm considering something up here even though I do have a basement that is mostly underground.
Basements are nice......until your house takes a direct hit from a tornado and caves in on top of you. I'll stick with my reinforced concrete storm shelter that's EF-5 rated.
I'll second that.
The only drawback I see to a dedicated, stand-alone storm shelter is the fact that you need to go outside to get into it.....Two nights ago we had some tremendous straight line winds come through, a lot of folks lost roofs, barns and trees but thankfully no serious injuries. But, this happened at 2:30 in the morning, when the first warning most had, (myself included) was awakening to a tremendous roar. By the time we could get shoes on the family and out to a shelter, it might be too late.....a lot quicker to run downstairs to the basement. I do acknowledge the possibility of the house collapsing, but I wonder how many times that has actually killed someone, especially when compared to the many lives saved by those who took shelter in the basement?
A safe room could also be built in the basement, but it would be a LOT easier to build it during initial construction.
I think anywhere below ground level is good. Having a plan for when the weather radio goes off is the lifesaver. My shelter is 40 feet from front porch with solar lighting showing the way. Full battery powered led motion lights inside that will kick on instantly when door is opened.
Our safe room is in the garage so we just have to step out to it and not outside. My wife and kids took shelter in it the same day as the Moore tragedy due to a warning in Washington county. We kept our kids home that day due to the what they were predicting. I am glad we did but my wife was sick all day because she forgot they were at home and was worried they were at school.
Ours is rated for an EF-5 as well but I pray I never have to find out to confirm that.
The only drawback I see to a dedicated, stand-alone storm shelter is the fact that you need to go outside to get into it.....Two nights ago we had some tremendous straight line winds come through, a lot of folks lost roofs, barns and trees but thankfully no serious injuries. But, this happened at 2:30 in the morning, when the first warning most had, (myself included) was awakening to a tremendous roar. By the time we could get shoes on the family and out to a shelter, it might be too late.....a lot quicker to run downstairs to the basement. I do acknowledge the possibility of the house collapsing, but I wonder how many times that has actually killed someone, especially when compared to the many lives saved by those who took shelter in the basement?
I believe homes are supposed to withstand 110 mph winds. Probably higher in Tornado Alley. You're better served staying in the center part of your house and away from windows during a high wind event. My house is built with 2x6 on 16 inch centers, doubled studded at all four corners, and the roof trusses are hurricane strapped to the walls. The walls are J-bolted into the concrete. This house ain't going anywhere unless I take a direct hit from an EF-4 or EF-5. A direct hit from an EF-4 or 5 will not only take your house, it will take anything that's in your basement, including you!
Have they confirmed if the twister was an EF-4 or EF-5 yet?
Have they confirmed if the twister was an EF-4 or EF-5 yet?
EF5
Our safe room is in the garage so we just have to step out to it and not outside. My wife and kids took shelter in it the same day as the Moore tragedy due to a warning in Washington county. We kept our kids home that day due to the what they were predicting. I am glad we did but my wife was sick all day because she forgot they were at home and was worried they were at school.
Ours is rated for an EF-5 as well but I pray I never have to find out to confirm that.
Make sure your "safe room" is registered so the 1st Responder's will know where to dig you out. Also, make sure you have a bucket, toilet paper, wet wipes, snacks, and bottled water. You may very well be stuck in there for a couple days if your house collapses on it.
I guess it comes down to what one's beliefs are. I think that when it's your time, that's it....nothing you can do will change it. I do believe in being prepared, and taking steps to mitigate damage and/or injury, but I'm guessing a storm shelter capable of surviving an EF-5 is rated to survive windspeed and debris.....but what about a semi, railroad car, or D11 cat dropped on top of it from 3000 feet up.
There's always that SOMETHING that hasn't been planned for, or taken into account. No shortage of things waiting to get ya!
I grew up in Norman, Oklahoma. I went to Adams Elementary School. Each class had access to below the floor level. My school was built in the 50's. I believe most schools in Oklahoma have some type of below ground access. Most of the kids that died at the elementary school drowned in the basement as Moore also received flooding rains during the tornado event. The basement filled with water and the access was piled with debris. My shelter sits on the side of a hill and has 2-4 inches of clearance from the ground. Not picking on you, but that last CNN video set me off...... The meteorologists in OKC were warning people to leave in their vehicles if they didn't have a below ground shelter and were in the path of this storm. They very seldom tell you to hop in your car and haul azz! These above ground "safe rooms" will not withstand an EF-4 or EF-5 tornado! It's bolted to the slab foundation. The May 3rd of 1999 Moore and Oklahoma City tornado not only cleaned the slab, it took the slab too!!!!! You become an airborne missile! Might as well have a NASA symbol on the side of it! While you're flying through the air, you're slamming into the sides of that coffin until you land, probably miles away from where your house was. No thank you. Sure, a tornado may pass directly over my shelter and rip the door off the hinges, sucking everyone out, but I'll take my chances.
I guess it comes down to what one's beliefs are. I think that when it's your time, that's it....nothing you can do will change it. I do believe in being prepared, and taking steps to mitigate damage and/or injury, but I'm guessing a storm shelter capable of surviving an EF-5 is rated to survive windspeed and debris.....but what about a semi, railroad car, or D11 cat dropped on top of it from 3000 feet up.
There's always that SOMETHING that hasn't been planned for, or taken into account. No shortage of things waiting to get ya!
Absolutely. The only way to insure your safety would cost more money than most can afford. I always tell my wife that if I won the lotto, our shelter would be accessible from the house and outside. It would be 50 ft. deep with oxygen tanks, refrigerators, emergency power, etc. But for $2,600 you can get darn close to being as safe as one can be within reason. By the way, I'd love to have a basement. What a great Man Cave I could make out of that!!!! LOL!
Have they confirmed if the twister was an EF-4 or EF-5 yet?
EF5
Sorry that was just a preliminary rating. Nothing official yet.
I grew up in Norman, Oklahoma. I went to Adams Elementary School. Each class had access to below the floor level. My school was built in the 50's. I believe most schools in Oklahoma have some type of below ground access. Most of the kids that died at the elementary school drowned in the basement as Moore also received flooding rains during the tornado event. The basement filled with water and the access was piled with debris. My shelter sits on the side of a hill and has 2-4 inches of clearance from the ground. Not picking on you, but that last CNN video set me off...... The meteorologists in OKC were warning people to leave in their vehicles if they didn't have a below ground shelter and were in the path of this storm. They very seldom tell you to hop in your car and haul azz! These above ground "safe rooms" will not withstand an EF-4 or EF-5 tornado! It's bolted to the slab foundation. The May 3rd of 1999 Moore and Oklahoma City tornado not only cleaned the slab, it took the slab too!!!!! You become an airborne missile! Might as well have a NASA symbol on the side of it! While you're flying through the air, you're slamming into the sides of that coffin until you land, probably miles away from where your house was. No thank you. Sure, a tornado may pass directly over my shelter and rip the door off the hinges, sucking everyone out, but I'll take my chances.
Bob you have the same type of shelter as me don't you. I think we are safer then those garage shelters. But like spark said you have to go outside. They did register my shelter with FEMA against my will. I don't like registering anything though. It says in the document they can come inspect my shelter after any event and of course check that we are not trapped inside. This is mine.
[img]
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa47...49DD7FBACE5.mp4[/img]
I grew up in Norman, Oklahoma. I went to Adams Elementary School. Each class had access to below the floor level. My school was built in the 50's. I believe most schools in Oklahoma have some type of below ground access. Most of the kids that died at the elementary school drowned in the basement as Moore also received flooding rains during the tornado event. The basement filled with water and the access was piled with debris. My shelter sits on the side of a hill and has 2-4 inches of clearance from the ground. Not picking on you, but that last CNN video set me off...... The meteorologists in OKC were warning people to leave in their vehicles if they didn't have a below ground shelter and were in the path of this storm. They very seldom tell you to hop in your car and haul azz! These above ground "safe rooms" will not withstand an EF-4 or EF-5 tornado! It's bolted to the slab foundation. The May 3rd of 1999 Moore and Oklahoma City tornado not only cleaned the slab, it took the slab too!!!!! You become an airborne missile! Might as well have a NASA symbol on the side of it! While you're flying through the air, you're slamming into the sides of that coffin until you land, probably miles away from where your house was. No thank you. Sure, a tornado may pass directly over my shelter and rip the door off the hinges, sucking everyone out, but I'll take my chances.
Bob you have the same type of shelter as me don't you. I think we are safer then those garage shelters. But like spark said you have to go outside. They did register my shelter with FEMA against my will. I don't like registering anything though. It says in the document they can come inspect my shelter after any event and of course check that we are not trapped inside. This is mine.
[img]
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa47...49DD7FBACE5.mp4[/img]
Mine doesn't have the hand handle on the side........and my door is painted black. Other than that, they're the same. I guess they added the handle after mine was built. I've had mine a couple years now. I have to go down and spray for spiders as mine fills up with Black Widows each year. The only access I can see for them is around the door as the wind turbine and air vent are screened. I'm thinking maybe some tape on weatherstripping, like around doors, might help keep the "beasties" out of there. The spiders don't bother me, but the Mrs. may refuse to enter and ride out the storm if'n she sees "critters" in the "fraidy hole"..... We purchased a hand-crank radio and rechargeable lanterns too. I really did my homework on this thing. I made sure that it was planted to the southwest of the house and that nothing was parked or built behind it. I'm also adding a two ton jack and beam just in case a mature oak lands on the door. Thanks for sharing your video..... One of the survivors of the Moore tornado has one just like ours. His wind turbine and air vent were destroyed, but those can be replaced easily and cheaply enough.
Have they confirmed if the twister was an EF-4 or EF-5 yet?
EF5
Sorry that was just a preliminary rating. Nothing official yet.
It's official. It was an EF-5 per the National Weather Service. Wind speeds at 300 ft. were measured at over 270 mph. Winds at the surface were measured at 210 mph. The May 3rd, 1999 tornado was measured at 318 mph, still an EF-5. The biggest difference was this one was a very slow mover and really chewed up what it passed over.
I grew up in Norman, Oklahoma. I went to Adams Elementary School. Each class had access to below the floor level. My school was built in the 50's. I believe most schools in Oklahoma have some type of below ground access. Most of the kids that died at the elementary school drowned in the basement as Moore also received flooding rains during the tornado event. The basement filled with water and the access was piled with debris. My shelter sits on the side of a hill and has 2-4 inches of clearance from the ground. Not picking on you, but that last CNN video set me off...... The meteorologists in OKC were warning people to leave in their vehicles if they didn't have a below ground shelter and were in the path of this storm. They very seldom tell you to hop in your car and haul azz! These above ground "safe rooms" will not withstand an EF-4 or EF-5 tornado! It's bolted to the slab foundation. The May 3rd of 1999 Moore and Oklahoma City tornado not only cleaned the slab, it took the slab too!!!!! You become an airborne missile! Might as well have a NASA symbol on the side of it! While you're flying through the air, you're slamming into the sides of that coffin until you land, probably miles away from where your house was. No thank you. Sure, a tornado may pass directly over my shelter and rip the door off the hinges, sucking everyone out, but I'll take my chances.
Bob you have the same type of shelter as me don't you. I think we are safer then those garage shelters. But like spark said you have to go outside. They did register my shelter with FEMA against my will. I don't like registering anything though. It says in the document they can come inspect my shelter after any event and of course check that we are not trapped inside. This is mine.
[img]
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa47...49DD7FBACE5.mp4[/img]
Mine doesn't have the hand handle on the side........and my door is painted black. Other than that, they're the same. I guess they added the handle after mine was built. I've had mine a couple years now. I have to go down and spray for spiders as mine fills up with Black Widows each year. The only access I can see for them is around the door as the wind turbine and air vent are screened. I'm thinking maybe some tape on weatherstripping, like around doors, might help keep the "beasties" out of there. The spiders don't bother me, but the Mrs. may refuse to enter and ride out the storm if'n she sees "critters" in the "fraidy hole"..... We purchased a hand-crank radio and rechargeable lanterns too. I really did my homework on this thing. I made sure that it was planted to the southwest of the house and that nothing was parked or built behind it. I'm also adding a two ton jack and beam just in case a mature oak lands on the door. Thanks for sharing your video..... One of the survivors of the Moore tornado has one just like ours. His wind turbine and air vent were destroyed, but those can be replaced easily and cheaply enough.
They said the handles are new. I also put mine southwest of house. I think I'm gonna go with white for the door to decrease heat. I got a load of topsoil coming in to cover all that clay and do some landscaping around it. I don't know if you seen it in other thread but here is a video I made of full installation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzxkUurHj08
Cecil, I actually live just out of Fort Worth. Our soils here are a mess. I water my foundation to keep it from cracking. I'm not sure the city code would allow me to install one. They don't allow much.
I believe homes are supposed to withstand 110 mph winds. Probably higher in Tornado Alley. You're better served staying in the center part of your house and away from windows during a high wind event. My house is built with 2x6 on 16 inch centers, doubled studded at all four corners, and the roof trusses are hurricane strapped to the walls. The walls are J-bolted into the concrete. This house ain't going anywhere unless I take a direct hit from an EF-4 or EF-5. A direct hit from an EF-4 or 5 will not only take your house, it will take anything that's in your basement, including you!
My job requires me to be knowledgable about things like this, and I'm sorry to say that this simply is not correct.
Something as simple as a branch breaking out a window will negate the construction you describe in seconds.
If I lived in tornado alley, an engineered reinforced concrete storm shelter buried below grade would be in place before my family put one foot in the door.
It is a mess up there for sure. Been in the area the last two days working. Keep the people in your prayers.
Took these pictures today.
This is on Interstate 35 in Moore.
Railroad bridge that collapsed next to Interstate 44 west of Moore.
Have they confirmed if the twister was an EF-4 or EF-5 yet?
EF5
Sorry that was just a preliminary rating. Nothing official yet.
It's official. It was an EF-5 per the National Weather Service. Wind speeds at 300 ft. were measured at over 270 mph. Winds at the surface were measured at 210 mph. The May 3rd, 1999 tornado was measured at 318 mph, still an EF-5. The biggest difference was this one was a very slow mover and really chewed up what it passed over.
I believe the May 3rd 99 tornado has the fastest recorded wind speeds on the planet ever for a tornado didn't it? Of course we haven't had radar equipment to actually measure wind speeds of tornadoes that long but still 318 mph is just out of this world!
It is a mess up there for sure. Been in the area the last two days working. Keep the people in your prayers.
Took these pictures today.
This is on Interstate 35 in Moore.
Railroad bridge that collapsed next to Interstate 44 west of Moore.
Dang Chris. That's horrible looking. Are you helping with the clean up?
No, just passing through the area. Delivered fish yesterday to two places just south of Moore and then delivered a 1000 gallon Fuel Tank to company in OKC that rents out generators.
Fastest winds ever recorded on radar came from May 3, 1999.
I believe homes are supposed to withstand 110 mph winds. Probably higher in Tornado Alley. You're better served staying in the center part of your house and away from windows during a high wind event. My house is built with 2x6 on 16 inch centers, doubled studded at all four corners, and the roof trusses are hurricane strapped to the walls. The walls are J-bolted into the concrete. This house ain't going anywhere unless I take a direct hit from an EF-4 or EF-5. A direct hit from an EF-4 or 5 will not only take your house, it will take anything that's in your basement, including you!
My job requires me to be knowledgable about things like this, and I'm sorry to say that this simply is not correct.
Something as simple as a branch breaking out a window will negate the construction you describe in seconds.
If I lived in tornado alley, an engineered reinforced concrete storm shelter buried below grade would be in place before my family put one foot in the door.
Most houses and barns are built to withstand 90 mph winds. The engineering in jumping up 20 mph to 110 mph is quite the step. You simply could not afford to built a home that can withstand 210 mph winds.
+1 on being below ground. I will try to get pics of our safe room up soon.
I believe homes are supposed to withstand 110 mph winds. Probably higher in Tornado Alley. You're better served staying in the center part of your house and away from windows during a high wind event. My house is built with 2x6 on 16 inch centers, doubled studded at all four corners, and the roof trusses are hurricane strapped to the walls. The walls are J-bolted into the concrete. This house ain't going anywhere unless I take a direct hit from an EF-4 or EF-5. A direct hit from an EF-4 or 5 will not only take your house, it will take anything that's in your basement, including you!
My job requires me to be knowledgable about things like this, and I'm sorry to say that this simply is not correct.
Something as simple as a branch breaking out a window will negate the construction you describe in seconds.
If I lived in tornado alley, an engineered reinforced concrete storm shelter buried below grade would be in place before my family put one foot in the door.
Most houses and barns are built to withstand 90 mph winds. The engineering in jumping up 20 mph to 110 mph is quite the step. You simply could not afford to built a home that can withstand 210 mph winds.
+1 on being below ground. I will try to get pics of our safe room up soon.
Bargain Barns & Buildings in Noble has metal buildings that are certified to withstand 130mph winds....... When you lose your roof, you normally lose your house. Strapping your roof trusses to your walls, which are bolted to the slab will probably get you to that 120 mph number. Most roof trusses are toe nailed into the top wall plates with one nail. Your roof is pretty much just sitting on top of your walls. The cost of strapping a new house under construction will add roughly $1 a foot. If you call your insurance company and tell them how it's built, it might save you a few bucks in insurance per year.
http://www.camccartyconstruction.com/high_wind.html