Ok I have had a tank setup with tilapia in it the last two years and plan to do it again this year.

We have moved to a new home and a concern I have is, should I put it directly on the ground, on some pallets, stepping stones, etc.?

At the old house we just had it on the driveway of the detached garage, but do not have that option here.

I just want some ideas as to what I could or should place this on to make it safe for the tank and the fish that are in it.

Thanks

If you have a bottom drain, it might be easier putting it up in the air, but if not, I don't think it matters.

Are you concerned because the new spot is on bare earth?

Esshup brings up a good point.

Don't know if it would matter in this case, but floors are often well insulated because of heat loss thru the ground, that is if you are heating it.

I am very curious about your old setup and the new one. Do you have any descriptive posts in the past about it?

Should have been more clear. It does not have a bottom drain. I had thought about putting one in and this would require that I raise it off the ground but at this time that is not the case.

My main concern was the direct contact with ground (bare earth), damaging the tank or causing the water to cool quicker than if I had it on a pallet or say stepping stones.

I do plan to heat it, but by the time I get my fish I may not need to until the fall, unless it stays cold or I just want to jump start their spawning.

My original plan was to get some from Rex in Jan-Feb as I have been wanting to try out the Blues and figured this would have given them a chance to pull off a spawn or two in my tank, where I could have kept them and moved my larger breeders to my pond.

But since the new house renovation has taken longer than planed and I did not get them ordered when I wanted to may be a little late to grow them out enough so they do not get eaten.

Consider putting the tank up on cement blocks with maybe styrofoam sheeeting under the tank for insolation. Cecil Baird1 is using an easy to install bottom drain fitting called a Uniseal instead of an expensive bulk head fitting that could be used as a smaller sized bottom drain. He may see this and advise us.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=276331#Post276331

I have modified the system to make it cheaper and easier to build. I now connect an external stand pipe to the center drain and purge the solids out around the drain twice a day by pulling up a gate valve. I still use an upflow filter with a u tube siphon but no connection to the tank other than the siphon. I also now use a moving bed bioreactor filter vs. the RBC. Just built my third RBC for a conference demo and they are getting expensive to build. Close to $500.00 in materials. The moving bed filter is much cheaper to build and works pretty good.

I hope to get the pics of the news system put together for a newsletter article tomorrow and can post them here if anyone is interested.

Yes many are definately interested in your new techniques to raise fish indoors. Looking forward to your helpful info.

Mr. Hello,

If you feel the following is a hijack of your thread please let me know and I'm sure Bill can move it to a thread of it's own.


Concrete blocks set up outside for the fish tank. This will be part of an aquaponics set up as soon as the weather gets warmer.

I absolutely hate transporting the blocks from the place of purchase and setting them up due to the weight etc.! However, they are the cheapest thing I have found to elevate a tank.




My favorite type of tank to use for a fish tank. It's a liquid storage tank I purchased that was cut down for me by a nearby factory that makes them. This one is 5 feet in diameter. I had it cut at 26 inches in height. Cost was about $100 minus sales tax.

I like it because it's smooth as a baby's butt inside which allows settleable solids to easily move to the center drain. Stock tanks typically have ribs to reinforce them which allows solids to collect on those ribs. Don't despair if your only option is plastic stock tank. It will work.

Notice the hole cut in the center. It's where the Uniseal goes for the center drain. You MUST use a hole saw to make this hole precise! Otherwise you will have a leak!






A top and side view of the Uniseal(TM) that snaps into the hole cut for it with the hole saw. The material is a space age rubber called MPR, and is rated at 40 psi and warranted for 25 years. They hold pressure and vacuum, and are immune to cold temps. AES/Pentair has them as do several places on the Internet. Cost for a 3 inch as shown is about $7.00. Try getting a 3 inch bulkhead fitting for that price. And a Uniseal (TM) is easier to install IMHO.

The way they work is, they snap into the hole that is cut and when the pipe is forced through they expand creating a seal.

The center drain which is a 3 inch PVC shower drain that has been inserted into and glued to a short section of PVC pipe. A piece of plastic was cut to make a shim that looks like a washer. It fits under the lip of the shower drain and sticks out a little. This is to keep the shower drain lip from pulling through the Uniseal (TM). It doesn't take much to keep the shower drain from slipping through, so any waterproof material should work. Perhaps a hardware store has a rubber washer that is right size? Or a piece of aluminum? I used what I had on hand which was a plastic wall covering.



A side view of the shower drain, plastic shim, Uniseal(TM) ans short section of PVC pipe.

To install the center drain you first must bevel the lip of the end of the PVC pipe with a grinder to make it easier for it to pass through the Uniseal(TM). Or you can cut the end of the PVC pipe diagonally but you'll have to cut that end off once you get it through. I prefer the former. You will also need Vaseline (TM) smeared on the PVC pipe to help it slide through easier.

Anyway, after gluing the PVC shower drain to the PVC pipe pop the Uniseal into the hole in the bottom of tank. Next slide the plastic washer shim up the PVC pipe under the lip of the shower drain. Then shove pipe though the Uniseal(TM) until the shower drain is level with the Uniseal(TM). Now you have a leak proof center drain where fish can't escape!

Another reason I prefer a Uniseal (TM) over a bulkhead fitting is there is less of a lip for solids to get trapped up against vs. a bulkhead fitting.

The drain pipe which connects to an external stand pipe. The Fernco rubber coupler on the right connects to the section of PVC coming down from the center drain. The Fernco rubber coupler on the left connects to the 't' assembly in the second picture,which is where the external stand pipe rests inside. Note the 't' is 4 inch vs. the rest of the drain pipe which is 3 inches.





The 4 inch pipe is inserted into the 4 inch 't'. It's not glued.




The purpose of the Fernco couplers is for easy disassembly of the system if you want to move it. Also cleaning of pipes, hoses, etc. if the system is shut down.

The following is the drain pipe and 4 inch 't' in service. You can't see where it runs under the tank and up the center train due to the clarifer tank to the left.

Note the drain line on the floor that is connected to the rear of the 't'. Twice a day an hour after feeding the gate valve in front of the 't' is pulled up for about 5 seconds and then closed, which violently pulls out about 2 gallons of water to the top of the 't.' This removes and dislodges solids in and around the center drain. Once the purged water and solids are purged the ball valve the behind the 't' is opened. Then the external stand pipe is scoured out with a garden hose and nozzle.



The hose that comes out of the 't' that connects to a barb fitting. Note the ball valve.

A membrane diffuser connected to an air line is mounted to the shower drain via a couple of zip ties, or a hose clamp -- that was pre-threaded through the vents in the drain -- before gluing the shower drain to the PVC pipe.

Note the assembly is attached to membrance diffuser to mount the hose vertically to keep it off the bottom of the tank.



The entire drain system including the external stand pipe minus the tank.

Nice and simple way of making a tank to raise fish. Creative and efficient. Thanks for sharing this info for others to learn.

But there's more...

Still need to cover the mechanical and biological filter.

Even though the center drain and external stand pipe removes a considerable amount of settleable solids, and allows me to not have to do a water change for 3 to 5 days, a mechanical filter is still needed to strain out the suspended solids in the water column.

The mechanical filter consists of a 55 gallon drum that is packed with almost one roll of deer fence garden netting available at most big box stores like Menards, and some filter pads from Stoney Creek Equipment Company.



Note the u-tube siphon in the tank that works by gravity. That is, it pulls water from the water column of the fish tank to the bottom of the 55 gallon drum under the netting and filter pads. It does this due to the fact that water is being pulled out of the top of the 55 gallon drum via a small pump.

The u-tube siphon and a couple of end caps.



It's primed by simply submerging it in the fish tank and temporarily capping the end that is lifted out of the fish tank into the 55 gallon drum. The will run indefinitely as long as both ends are under water.

Suspended particulate is trapped in the filter material as the water gets pulled up through it.

Every four or five days an extension of the u-tube siphon in the drum is removed and the siphon capped (see picture of u-tube siphon) and a drain is opened in a drain hose in the bottom of the tank. The pump is also temporarily hung in the fish tank and kept running.

Once the water is drained out of the drum the filter material is sprayed off with a garden hose and nozzle and placed temporarily in garbage can or other drum. The empty tank is scoured out with the garden hose and completely drained and then the ball valve in the drain hose is closed again.

Clean water is put into the drum, and the filter material and pump replaced as before.

CB1 - So the solids in the tank tend to collect and accumulate under the diffuser? Then when the gate valve is opened they are pulled out the drain?

The settlable solids do, while the suspended solids (solids that won't or haven't settled) get siphoned to the clarifier tank via the u-tube siphon and trapped in the filter material.

The diffusers pushes air up obviously, which causes water to rise right above the diffuser but to drop farther out and make it's way back to the center drain. Also the the inflow of the returning water to the fish tank from the biofilter (covered in the next post) is directed tangentially to the fish tank wall, which causes a spinning motion in the fish tank that also directs solids to the center drain. For those that don't know it's known as centripetal flow or the "tea cup effect."

Neat set up and good way to raise fish. I assume you will use something like this to raise the trout fry-fingerlings?
I was told by a fish raiser that the settlable solids mostly manure is the biggest cause of ammonia and deterioriated water quality in a RAS. Do you think that is true?.

So far there is a way to periodically purge settleable solids from the tank and a way to filter out suspended solids or solids that have not settled yet.

What is also needed in a system that reuses water is a biological filter. That's because fish give of ammonia NH4+, which can poison them regardless of how clean the water looks or is aerated. The killer is actually the unionized form know as NH3, in which the percentage of unionized is dependent on PH and water temperature in relation to total ammonia (NH4). Most is give off by the fishes gills but waste products produce ammonia also.

There are all kinds of biofilters, which are simply a provision for a surface area beneficial bacteria can live on and thrive. But most importantly these bacteria oxidize ammonia an convert it to nitrites (also poisonous but not as much as ammonia) and then to nitrates which are fairly benign with exceptions depending on species and high concentration.

My favorite filter is a rotating biocontact filter (RBC) but the third one I just built for a demonstraton at an aquaculure conference cost me close to $500.00 in materials. From now on any new systems I build for the high schools I set up will use a simpler and cheaper biofilter that will run about $165.00 to build. It also has a smaller footprint than the RBC.

Here's one I'm using now in my winter system.



It's simply a 55 gallon drum with a diffuser mounted in the bottom connected to an air line. There is also an intake where water from the top of the clarifier tank pump runs in which is located close to the bottom of the tank. Near the top of the tank is outlet which dumps back into the fish tank. The outlet is screened to keep plastic media in.

The plastic media you see in the picture is called MB3 and is available for $25.00 per cubic foot from Water Management Technologies. There's another one called Kaldness that runs twice as much and doesn't work as well IMHO as it's much smaller and clogs with film easier.

http://www.w-m-t.com/Products/WaterTek_MB3_Moving_Bed_Media.php

You will need 3 to 4 cubic feet of media for the drum.

Basically bacteria lives and grows on the media as the air keeps mixing the media tunbling it in the tank and provided oxygen to this aerobic bacteria. Old bacteria film which is less productive is scoured off. It's also a self cleaning media vs some other types of systems that have to be periodically cleaned.

There is no drain line on this biofilter drum as it's not needed.

Actually contrary to popular belief the most ammonia is given off by the fish's gills.

The settleable solids are the easiest to remove. Suspended solids are the most difficult due to the fact that they are quite small in diameter down to a few microns and want to stay suspended in the water column.

That said, the smaller a fish is, the more often it eats and the more fecal material it produces. That coupled with the fact that many producers crowd their fry to get the best feeding response, it's really important to keep their tank as clean as possible to prevent gill infections.

I will be doing something like this but a much smaller tank initially to keep them crowded as I only need to produce a few hundred trout a year.

I'll be using recirculated water to hatch them which most don't do but things are changing.

What are the curved PVC pipes for on the top of the biofilter tank?

Oh sorry. That's where I drape shade cloth to keep it dark in the bio tank. The bacteria prefer darkness.

Do they still have those white tanks available?

Poo on moving cement blocks too!

From time to time. I usually tell them what I'm looking for and they come up with one eventually. They don't seem to be seconds. Not sure what the deal is. However I went to school and ran track and cross country with the sales guy's dad. It seemed to score some points for me.



Believe it or not one of my dad's first jobs before he went into the military was loading those concrete blocks on pallets by hand. I think he was 15 or so and weighted 130 lbs. soaking wet. Said he was so tired when he got home he ate and went to bed and woke up the next morning to go at it again.

I was trying to find a picture earlier where I bought 15 pallets of 10" 3 core heavy duty blocks. 13 pallets of 67 blocks each went for 5 bucks a pallet, the other two went for 15 and 20 bucks, respectively. (bidding war) Cement co. bit the dust!

Just looked at these today, and I have to move them again?

I'm thinking Craig's List at .75 each, and they move them!

Buddy of mine gave me 275 10" 2 core from a property his brother bought. Previous owner failed at building a house in the allotted time, and the gub took it and auctioned it off.

Ok just put in 25 Goldfish to try and get my system primed and ready for Tilapia if I ever get a chance to go pick them up.

Do you think the Goldfish is enough to get it ready or should I add more than 25 to the tank?

I also thought about adding up to a pound of FHM to the tank as well to speed up the process.

Any feedback would be helpful.

Thanks

Looks like I have lost some of my gold fish in my tank. Not sure what killed them.

I would like to know if I should add some more and if so how many.

Or would it be better to add some FHM to the mix.

I am trying to get my tank cycled so I can add my Tilapia or other fish if they are not available.

Thanks

No effect on other species?

MRHELLO,

if you lost fish in 24 hours. It's most likely either a) something in your water or b) stress from the transport. 24 hours is usually too short for your ammonia or nitrite to get high.

if a) you will continue to lose fish. if b) you shouldnt lose anymore fish.

My first question is always where did you get your water? If it was tap water did you treat or filter your water for chlorine or chloramines (whichever applies to your municipality)

Secondly, it could just have been stress from the transport. I may lose 1 out of 30 when i travel fish an hour or longer.


FIsh are usually very vulnerable after a move. Something i do when i get new fish in an RAS is I salt the system with aquarium salt. This provides chloride which helps replenish the slime coat that they lost due to stress and helps fight off diseases like fungus and ick. Most salts are ok as long as they dont have an anti coagulating agent. Salt amounts between 1ppthousand and 3ppt. The only reason i mention the low range is if you are doing aquaponics some plants do not do well harmed by higher salinity.



brian

Sounds like too many fish. I would NEVER start a system using fish unless I want to kill fish. I use foamless ammonia to get my bacteria ammonia going and when ammonia and nitrates drop to 0 I add my fish.


What's your ammonia and nitrite level?

You think 25 2" goldfish is too many for 250 gallons of water?

I need to get some more test strips to check the levels but I would not have thought they could have shot that up that quick as small as they are but you never know.

Last year I just used left of FHM and GSH from a fishing trip, then I added my Tilapia. Then again Tilapia are very forgiving so that probably helped.

I did noticed about 5 gold fish and 1 rosy red (they must have slipped this in on me as a goldfish)

I need to get some grow beds setup to help with the nitrates as well plus I want to give them a shot anyway, but I may use my fingerling grow out tank for that since I do not have a filter for the smaller tank.

You wouldn't think so but like I said I don't use fish to cycle my tanks. I see no point in killing fish when adding nonfoaming ammonia does the same thing in about the same amount of time. Also cheaper and less time consuming.
When fractions of ppm of NH4 and NH3 are toxic it doesn't take much to stress or kill fish.

That said goldfish are notorious for carrying disease and parasites and may have as suggested already been stressed. Another reason why I do a fishless cycle. I have a sibling that occasionally sells tropical fish for Walmart. Says their fish are constantly dying and Walmart doesn't seem to care. Also lots of people bringing them back that have no clue about new tank syndrome.



Please don't take offense to this but I don't understand how you would expect to cycle a tank without testing the water. And don't waste your money on test strips. Go with an API master test kit like this for around $20.00.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-API-Freshwat...=item41704fde5b



The joke among the people I know that raise tilipia is you can grow them in gasoline. LOL I mean really in some systems they are used to eat the excretement of the fish upstream...





Getting the tank cycled should be your first concern. Nitrates which are the primary vehicle for plat growth won't show up in any significant useful amounts until after the tank is cycled and fish are being fed. And they are pretty benign to the fish anyway compared to ammonia and nitrites.

Excellent points as always Brian! I think he could add salt initially to reduce stress on the fish and then by the time he adds his plants, and adds enough salt free make up water, he wouldn't have any salt left in his system right?

I've been told NO SALT WHATSOEVER in Aquaponic systems. Not sure if that's true but i won't take a chance.

Just googling, it appears that some use salt and some run the other direction, real fast. Appears that some who use salt in aquaponics, use sea salt.

Have to look into this further tho. May put a kink in a few things.

The gold fish were really more for the kids and I figure they would help out some to get the tank started. I always thought they were pretty tough fish but maybe not.

Yes I need to get one of the kits you mentioned to test the water so not offended at all.

Where can I get the foamless ammonia and how much should I add?

Some plants are salt tolerant at low levels. Most are not.

But you ended up traumatizing the kids! LOL

I get the ammonia at Ace hardware. Shake the bottle. If it foams you don't want it. If it foams it means it has some detergent which is not conducive to bacteria.

Initially add just enough to keep you system at about 4 ppm of ammonia. Probably just a cap full or so for your size system. If you added up to 8 ppm don't panic. It will go back down once you nitrite oxydizing bacteria show up.

Keep testing it once a day for several days and add more to keep the ammonia at 3 to 4 ppm. After four or five days start testing for nitrites along with the ammonia. Once nitrites shows up you are half way through you "cycle." Keep testing once a day for both ammonia and nitrites and keep ammonia at about 3 to 4 ppm by adding more if need be.

At some point (two to three weeks if your water is kept in the upper 70's) your ammonia will be quickly oxidized and converted to nitrites and even when adding ammonia your ammonia and nitrites revert to a reading of zero within a day or less. At the same time you will find your nitrates will be steadily climbing which is due to your nitrites being coverted to nitrates. At this point your system is said to be "cycled" and you can safely add fish.

Cecil pee's in his tank, so maybe a couple beer's per day will do the trick

Define the salt you are using. If the pkg is blue with a gal and umbrella, probably the wrong stuff in the first place.

I need to look into this further tho.

Sodium chloride is sodium chloride isn't it Phil?

Not the only salt Cecil.

Trying to raise fish in a tank without a test kit is like trying to drive a car on a vacation trip without any gauges. You don't know how fast you're going, no idea when the gas tank will run dry, no idea if it's starting to overheat, and no idea if there's oil pressure. Same thing happens - the car or the fish die.

???

I use API aquarium salt that you can get at petco but the same type of stuff is sold for other purposes at hardware stores and maybe pool stores.


I dont expect the umbrella stuff would work because it probably has an anti-caking agent, and/or iodine. I have read morton solar salt is ok, but i havent actually seen a package to know what is in it.

didnt mean to derail the thread, Are there any new deaths today or does it look like it's behind you? I always do fish cycling with minnows or goldfish, It's just important to be very conservative about your fish load, check your ammonia and nitrites religiously, feed the fish moderately and prepare water ahead of time in case you need to do water changes.

If ammonia gets high i stop feeding until it's under control.

brian

Brian,

I think the iodine warning is over the top IMHO. I know one fish pathologist that doesn't think it's a big deal and several of the fish nerds on the NANFA site don't either. But better safe than sorry I guess.

I've used iodized salt in a pinch in my RAS's and never had any issues.

I've always used Morton's kosher salt when transporting. I've not seen any issues.

As for using salt in a system with vegetables -- I believe that would not be going for the veggies. I think it would kill quite a few different kinds of plants.

I recently purchased a 50# bag of stock salt at Tractor Supply. <$5.00 for 50#. It seemed to work well for mixing in the water to transport fish. But I realize that not everyone will need that volume of salt.

A couple 1200 gallon tanks will go thru it like candy.

I am changing the way of dosing salt.
Originally, I was going to premix in a tank of water, then take salinity measurements and all that stuff. Another mixing tank will also take up room, then pumps, metering devices, conductivity sensors and all that other stuff.

Gravimetric with dry seems to be an easier way, at least for me. And it would all be overhead, so no floor space required. I can measure the water volume in the system within 1/2 gallon, worst case, so make up water and dry dosing should be quite a bit easier.

Just thinking out loud here.

I don't know if it makes any difference to the fish, but the Stockmans salt at our local TSCs incluldes Yellow Prussiate of Soda (YPS).

I strongly recommend not using it for swimming pools. I learned that the hard way.

Don't want to use that with fish either!

A lot of info on this thread!!! I'm coming back for "seconds".

Well my testing kit should be in today. My question is will it work on green water?

My fish that are in there seem to be ok now and I just added some Tilapia yesterday as that was the only time I could get them and they were much smaller than the ones from last year.

I need to add my heater for the next few days as we had a nice cool down but I want my fish to grow as quick as possible since we are getting a later start this year.

Still using the old homemade filter that came with my tank as I have used the last two years but really need to upgrade it and add plants.

Depends on how much salt you want to add. If I'm not doing aquaponics a 0.2 percent (2ppt) solution doesn't take much salt at all to keep it at 0.2 percent.



I just add salt when i do a water change. In my small systems a half a container of Morton salt keeps the 500 gallon system right at 0.2 percent.



Yes and making it more complicated than it has to be. You brainiac engineers crack me up. Yes that's a compliment! Like I said I'm a keep it simple stupid guy cause I'm stupid.

Yes, salt and plants are not a good combination.

Yeah supposed to turn to cyanide in the presence of sunlight.

(Yellow Prussiate of Soda)

What testing kit did you get? If it's the API master test kit I don't see why it won't work.

Keep in mind that your green water is a good thing as long as you have aeration at night. The phytoplankton consumes ammonia.

I bought the API kit you recommended. I just was not sure if the results would be the same or if I should look for a different color when testing.

I currently have my pump running nonstop through bio-balls and then out like a fountain as I have in the past. I plan to hook up my air tonight as I have to find my air hose.

Should I only run the air only at night or 24/7.

I figure the fish that are in the tank will filter out some of the green as well so it may be good all around as long as my nutrient loads are ok.

The water is cooler than I like so the tilapia are pretty slow, and that may also cause some issues with my bacteria as well so I may unfortunately may have to plug in my heater to get up in the 80's.

I'd run the air 24/7 if it's not costly but I'm not sure what your system looks like. My air moves solids to a center drain besides aerating the tank. I also use air to move my moving bed media.

I hear you on low water temps and tilapia. I picked a bad year to raise tilapia outside for the first time. I'm lucky to get water temps above the lower 70's and I don't want to crank up a heater in July!

I will tell you one thing: Tilapia are messy compared to the bluegill and yellow perch I've been raising in my RAS'. Lots of fecal casts!

Don't be so modest Cecil, we "ALL" learn a great deal from you, and by no stretch of the imagination, are you stupid! (except when you argue with Bill about air in extruded pellets )

Keeping it simple is the best way go! I just like playing with this stuff because I can.

Heck, you should have been here when I cracked the Ultrasonic Level Sensor out of the box. Got it calibrated, and noticed my toes moving. Directed said sensor at my right foot and commenced to measure toe movement

We all have hobbies of sorts. Most like to fish, so that is a given. Some play golf, others do crafts, and the list goes on... Me, I like to bounce ultrasonic pulses off my big toe

You got that right. If we all had the same interests it would be a boring competitive world.

My problem is i keep pushing up against my limitations!

Ok tested my water and it appears that my Nitrite and Nitrate are at or near 0. My ammonia on the other hand seems really high around just under 8.

What recommendations do you have to work with the water issues I am having?

Would adding any plants either directly to the tank or some vegies etc. in a grow bed help at all?

Please let me know.

change out at least 25% of your water, once as soon as possible, and again later today..
ammonia that high will inhibit the cycling process

I would go even higher with a 50 percent water change.

yeah, i was thinking at least a 50% change in a day, but i don't like to do it all at once..

Sounds like the bacteria in the filter has a long ways to go to catch up........

Did your nitrites appear, go up, and then go back to zero? Or are you still waiting for them to go up along with the nitrates? Plants will help but you need to get your biofilter completely cycled so any ammonia produced is quickly oxidized.

Are your fish still alive at 8 ppm Ammonia or did you switch to fishless cycling?

I went ahead and changed out some water probably about 50-85%. It was so green I could not believe they were living in it. The fish did perk up and are feeding like crazy so I guess that helped. The water has been staying at arond 79-84 as well which I believe is pretty close to ideal for Tilapia.

I have only checked it once and both the Nitrites and Nitrates were 0. Now since the water is green and the ammonia test turns the water green as well I wonder if it could have made it appear darker?

I know I need to upgrade my filtration system as it is what I got with my tank and has to work too hard as a bio filter since it also picks up some solids as well. That is why I wanted to add some plants or figure out a way to add a mechanical type filter as well.

In the past I have always cleaned my bio balls when changing water/cleaning the tank since they get some full and my filter clogs up. I wonder if this is knocking off or killing too much of the bacteria? The issue I have though is if the bio balls are not cleaned the filter/fountain I have will backup and not work.

Thanks

Can you set up a drum with wildlife netting and a siphon like in the book Small Scale Aquaculture, or is your pump somewhere else in the system? Then run your clarified water to your biofilter?

VanGorder told me the clarifer cleans down to 60 microns and I believe it as my water stays gin clear even with the messy tilapia. That's as good as a much more expensive rotating drum filter!

I see why your fish are still alive. They're tilapia. They can live in gasoline!

There are Tilapia, Goldfish, and a few FHM left, not sure if any crawfish are left or not.

I would like to try the drum with netting but even as simple as it looks to make not sure I am handy enough to do it. Trying to get the pump in the right place would be the fun part.

Right now it is directly in my tank.

I am fighting green water this year much more than last year for sure. Not sure that is that big of a problem for the fish, but sure does not look pretty.

I know if the Tilapia spawn the fry will love the green water starting out.

If I can do it anyone can! All you have to do is set the pump on top of the filter material in the drum and send that water to your biofilter. Then have you biofilter drop water back into the tank via gravity. You just need to build the siphon and put a drain in the bottom of the drum with a valve to drain the drum after you clean the netting and drain the remaining waste. It's really quite simple.





What's the problem with green water, at least as far as your fish? Green water creates oxygen and breaks down nitrites and nitrates. VanGorder's system in his book has green water. As long as you have some aeration at night you should be fine.

Now if you're concerned with it competing for nitrates with your plants you might check out getting a UV clarifier.

Funny thing. I have a system outside with tilapia now and have no green water or FA to speak of. I have the system minus the raft tank under a deck and a tarp to keep any water that percolates through the deck from ending up in the system, but that's it. I was sure I would have green water but don't.

This is vary similar to what I have now and may be able to modify it work like yours. Can you add more detailed pictures and setup info to this thread or PM me which ever you think is best.

I am getting ready to get some blocks like you have as well so let me about how many you have. I posted questions about them to make sure I was getting a good dear rather than just buying some new blocks.

I am curious to see how the water flows from your tank to the barrel and filter etc.

Looking forward to your additions to this thread.

Also you are working with male Tilapia as well correct? I was just curious if you had any spawn if not the case. Also what temp is your water and do you have issues keeping it warm since it is not in the sun?

I can but I'm pressed for time right now as far as posting pictures. I'll get back to this thread shortly.



I responded to your other thread. The new ones shouldn't be that expensive from one of the Building supply stores. You should be able to get them dirt cheap used.



Easy. Water is pumped via a small mag drive pump from the top of the filter tank (clarifier) to the bottom of the biofilter tank (mbbr) moving bed bioreator. That tank is set higher than the fish tank so it just drops back in the fish tank via a pipe. However with the aquaponic raft tank the water goes first to the raft tank and then back to the fish tank.



Yes, new species for me is tilapia in the outside tank.



Mine are hybrids so they are mostly male and possibly no females. Not seeing any young in the tank. At first with the cool and wet weather it was staying on the cool side in the lower 70's but since then has increased due to the heat wave.

A local garden center has the large water transport cubes with the metal cage around them for 25$ any one ever try to use them? I did not not get to stop and look closely at them? Gona stop by tomorrow . They look pretty big from the road.

White tank on left of picture.





That's the clarifier tank that strains out the suspended solids Very simple. Packed with sections of Wildlife netting with a filter pad or two on top.

A siphon like this pulls in water from the fish tank to the bottom of the filter material while water is being pulled up through the filter material by a small pump that rests on top of the filter material. That water is pushed to the bottom of the biofilter drum by that pump. There is a detachable section the clarifer tank side to be able to reach down and cap it temporarily when doing a water change.





Has a bottom drain in the bottom center of the drum that is simply a 3 inch shower drain that has the grating cut out that is glued into a piece of 3 inch PVC. This is pushed through the Uniseal to create the drain. You do need to cut a washer out of some kind of plastic to keep the drain lip from pushing through the Uniseal.

Here's the shower drain without the grating cut out. Note the white overlap outside of it on Uniseal. This is the washer I cut out of a plastic wall covering to keep the drain from sliding through. The lip on the drain just isn't wide enough.



This photo shows better that the lip is not wide enough:



Length of the PVC from the drain down is not important as long as you have enough clearance under the tank for it to clear the ground once you attach your elbow and another length of PVC. To the end of that is the necessary coupler to glue in a fitting for your hose barb. Then some type of hose is added to to act as your drain. A ball valve is added in line in the hose to release water when you do a water change.

For fingerlings I need smaller openings so I use this riser fitting. Both drains I got at Menards. The riser fitting comes in several sizes.



Here's the pump resting on top of the filter material and the water line going to the bottom of the biofilter tank.




The water than overflows here into the fish tank. That is because the top of the drum is higher than the fish tank. Note the elbows to tangentially direct the water against the tank wall to create centripedal flow (teacup effect).



Keep in mind the system pictured outside is set so high due to the raised garden next to it that gets waste water being already 15 inches off the ground. I wanted to gravity flow the waste water right to the garden by opening a valve.

I'll post some pics with the raft tank installed tomorrow.

Here's a side view of the drain again complete with the diffuser that is mounted on top. This is totally separate of the clarifier drain and tank. I once had them together. Changed it as this allows me to purge solids from the center drain anytime I want but pulling the gate valve.



BTW my furry R2D2 has lost some weight since the photo.

They are used very commonly in aquaponics. The name for them escapes me at the moment. As long as they haven't had any harmful chemicals stored in them they can be used. I personally don't find them very attractive and prefer circular tanks due to how easy it is to remove solids. Just me of course.

IBC totes?

That's the name. I am wondering what the best way to cut the top on one is, will you lose structural integrity ?

What media are you using in your biofilter?

And is your pump on top in your clarifier pulling the water out and then the siphon puts it back in? Have you ever had an issue with one of these getting clogged up or other issue to cause water to come run out of tank?

What size pump do you have in the clarifier?

Do you also have a drain on the bottom of your fish tank as well?

reciprocating saw, drill an access hole near one corner first. You don't have to cut all the way to the sides if you don't want the whole top of the tank open. I don't think it would cause any problems, but if you're concerned, just don't cut the metal braces going across the top of the tank.

There's a few companies that make adapters for the valves to connect to a garden hose or smaller PVC pipe.

So I went to look at the containers, they are in great shape and the large ones. The problem might be what they used them for. Bark mulch dye, from what I read it is charcoal based and 100% environmental friendly. For 25$ a container it's almost worth the risk . What do you guys think?

You mean you don't have them yet?

I'd get them, rinse them out, wash them out with simple green once the tops are cut off, see if you can scrub the sides with a brush on a pole and then triple rinse them.

MB3 sold by this company:

http://www.w-m-t.com/Products/WaterTek_MB3_Moving_Bed_Media.php

It's 1/2 the price of Kaldnes, works better, and is made here in the U.S. vs. Kaldnes that is now made in China. Only $25.00 per cubic foot and one cubic foot is 184 square feet of surface area. I really like the self cleaning aspect of moving bed filters.



Yes. When water is pulled out of the clarifer tank the siphon compensates via gravity and pulls water out of the fish tank. The siphon always tries to keep the water level the same between the fish tank and the clarifer tank. Hence why water comes in via the siphon as water is pulled out of the clarifer tank.



No. If your fish are small enough to fit into the siphon you make a screen to keep them out. (although you want to periodically clean the screen if you are feeding heavily as in fingerlings.) I do that by having two screens. The fish are scooted away from the screen, it's removed and immediately the new clean one is placed on. Then the one removed is cleaned and used for next time.

Only problem I have had is not completely filling the siphon before it's initial use and having air slow it down. But it won't overflow if that happens. It would be just the opposite. That is more water is pumped out than is coming into the clarifer tank and the water level in the clarifer tanks gets low.

If you fill the siphon and keep both ends under water you will never have to fill it again. You simply drop the siphon in the fish tank, allow water to fill it up and cap the end you will be pulling above water to place into the clarifier tank. As long as both ends stay under water you will never have any issues.



It's mag drive 60 watt pump that does about 14 gpm I think. I've used as small as a 30 watt and 10 gpm and it worked fine. The mag drive pumps are very efficient and last a long time.



Yes the one pictured in an earlier post is the center drain system for the tank. The clarifier tank has it's own simpler drain. See below for fish tank drain system:

So do we think they won't kill my fish

Ok I am thinking about trying this out and wanted to know if anyone has used this or not and how it works.

http://www.amazon.com/Pond-Solutions-Clo...ywords=cloram+x

I have mentioned before that the city water here is now full of Chloramine instead of Chlorine and this product states it is safe for humans. I just want to use something in my tank that will not be harmful to my family. I am sure what I have used in the past was not smart to use, but since I am not sure how much of it the fish take on it may or may not be that big of a deal.

I just want to go the safest route possible for us and the fish.

Thanks

AmQuel and Proline Dry Ammonia Remover do the same thing and are considerably cheaper if your fish aren't destined directly to the table.

I use the Proline Dry Ammonia Remover (Pentair Aquatic Eco-systems) pg. 130 in the 2013 catalog for one of the systems I set up at the local high school that uses city water. However the fish come back to me at the end of the school year and are not for consumption.

We also keep it on hand at the schools in case of an ammonia or nitrite spike. None of the above have a negative effect on the biofilter.

The fish I have will be for consumption, it will be the Tilapia that are left and large enough to harvest.

I have not had as much luck this year with them spawning, or they have been eaten quicker this year as I had dipped up thousands last year and grew them out large enough to dump in our ponds for extra food, and maybe a few made it to eat some algae.

This year I have only noticed one spawn and was able to get about 25 fish out of it so not as happy but hey better than nothing.

So I am looking for something that will do the trick in the water and still allow us to consume the fish.

Thanks

Then the ClorAm-X is what you want to use.

That's said, I doubt there is any difference between the compounds. Probably just that the maker of ClorAM-X has spent the money to do the testing to show it's harmless to use for fish that are to be used for consumption. It's one of the biggest scams going in this country. He who has incredible amounts of money to do the testing gets approved. Otherwise you're SOL.

To be honest they stuff I am currently using probably is not harmful in the amounts we the fish in. I only have about 30-40 fish that may come out of there and we will eat it over a 3-9 month time so it may or may not be an issue unless the chemicals in it can build up and never pass through the body.

I am not familiar with this so that is why I am trying to get the info from the brains like yourself and many others on hear that know about this stuff.

I would prefer to just use pond/rain water but that is not an option at my current location.

I have used the following in the past, what problems do you think they pose for fish doomed to consumption?


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004K82PWO/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i05?ie=UTF8&psc=1


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00176AYTI/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Thanks

No clue really. Sorry.

use ascorbic acid (vitamin c) to treat water with chloramines.. safe for fish bound for the table..

i've read that "super chorinating" works as well, breaking down the chemical bonds, but i'd use the vitamin c for a tank

Yeah I forgot about vitamin C.

Where would you get Vitamin C in that amount? Also how long does the water have to set before adding the fish back to it?

When I do a water change or exchange I usually just add it back in without removing the fish and all has worked so far.

I just want to get to something I know is safe rather than taking any chances.

Thanks

Sodium Ascorbate. PH neutral form of Ascorbic Acid. Ascorbic Acid will lower your PH.

Cheapest I've seen for the real stuff is 105 bucks for a 5.5lb bucket. Has all the gub blessings to boot.

One gram of the powder will destroy 1ppm of chlorine and, or, chloramines in 100 gallons of water, approximately. Best to pre mix and test tho.