I am in Michigan and finding it a bit difficult to find YP in a 5-7 inch size, told mostly 2-3 and some 4-5 inch. Also Reg BG on the small size too. I was planning on YP 5-7 as I have a few LMB at about 14-16 inch. And only one supplier with golden shiners. We could use a better source here in mid-Michigan.

Watching Bob on Wednesday evenings, the topic of "pumpkin seed bluegill" has been kicked about. I am in mid-Michigan and have checked with the usual vendors for fish stocking and no one carries pumpkinseed.
Just for the fun of it, Does anyone one in the upper MidWest, we northern pond people, have pumpkinseed? I am always looking for what is doing up here and who has had good experience with what, in the Northen ponds area. I really enjoy this forum, lots of great ideas and good comments with much needed help from you all! Thanks to all of you out there that chime in and add to the conversation!!

Happy Holidays Funky!

I have PS in my pond. I also have BG but have yet to see any BGxPS (Pumpkingills) newbies. I am happy to report the PS have pretty much wiped out what, at one time, was a thriving snail population in our pond. I got my PS at Keystone Hatchery in Richmond, Illinois (They are a PB advertiser in the Resource Guide.)

I recommend PS if you can find them. IMO one of the prettiest North American fish. Also, good snail control, at least when forced to compete for other forage with BG.

Funky,
Please keep us posted on the forum on how this turns out and what you locate as you keep searching. There are a few MI pond owners on the forum. I'm in the greater Grand Rapids area.

I drove to Laggis fish farm in the spring to get YP. I understand that the owner gets them from good brook stock outside of MI. That may limit what size classes he has. Mine were probably better described as 3-5" with a FEW 6" but no solid 5-7" options. He is in the far SW corner of MI (Gobles, MI). I'm sure you checked Imlay City fish farm and I'm not sure what others are by you.

As for shiners I could probably seine net dozens of large shiners for you come warm weather, but you would have to have some type of aeration setup for the trip back home (a cheap aquarium bubbler might be sufficient with cold water). Is there a size that you need to avoid predation?

I just got golden shiners from a local baitshop, bought a wholesale priced bag when the bait supplier came around. The bait shop owner was nice enough to call me when they arrived and since it was close I just took the Oxygen bag home and conditioned in my pond. I had no predators at the time so they have multiplied from a few to thousands with no issues.

As for PS, let me know what you find out. I'd love to put some in my pond, but I think the only way that will happen is if I transplant from another source or pond owner nearby. I wonder why there are few (or none!) fish farms in MI that I know of that stock RES or PS. It seems that MI ponds deserve the advantages of snail control and the unique qualities of RES and PS relating to their natural population control qualities.

Focus on local fisheries that feature PS and collect for harvest and accidentally dump bucket off your dock. Don't lose sleep on YP an inch smaller than you think you need. Build a cage and feed them for a few months - easy to achieve that growth - but even a 5-7" YP is vulnerable to LMB predation at 14-16"...I'd grow them out to at least 8-10" for higher survival rates. YP will probably struggle to establish self sustaining population in LMB dominated fishery unless significant macrophyte coverage is present to help escape predation. Just trying to manage your expectations.

canyoncreek, there is a Stoney Creek near Grant, Mi that carries YP. I have had no luck so far anywhere in Michigan. However, if one could travel as bit, straight west of you on the other side of Lake Michigan is Jones fishery and they carry PS.
i know there must be a number of us pond people in Michigan, I wish more would comment on this forum.
As this weather has been so mild I have ice on part of the pond, and am sure it is not safe for all but the very lightest of animals, take care!

Funky

teehjaeh57.........How large of a cage would you think for say 50 YP to grow a bit bigger before jumping in with the big guys?

Bill D. PS are a very pretty fish and I would love to have some. Still looking, Keystone would be a bit of a drive. But yours are doing well from the sounds of it, will keep looking, thanks !

I have grown out 100-150 YP to 8+" in a 3x4' cage. I learned to cage in early fall, feed all fall and thru next spring and early summer then release before water temps get into the 80s otherwise began experiencing morts in the cages. Still that's 5-6 months of feeding - pretty easy to gain 3-4" provided you're using high quality feed. I had my best luck with Skretting but Optimal wasn't available back then.

I was thinking something like a 5x5x5' for early spring with the small perch or bluegill, keep them away from the LMB and give them a chance to get a bit bigger. We have ice most of the winter so early spring would be the soonest for me, but from what you say that should be more than enough room for them, thanks!

In a 5x cage you could easily raise 500+ YP depending on size - that's an enormous amount of water. Remember cage feeding fish is easier when they exist in dense populations.

Do you think I could raise fathead minnows in a cage to release in the late fall for YP feed under the ice?

I think you're loosing the advantages of FHM by raising them in a cage. They need to reproduce as often as possible to utilize the gain.
If you had a separate small forage pond to raise/rear them, then yes, numbers would be the answer.

Agree with Kenny...I have a few reproduction/grow out cells on the farm and they save significant $$ on forage and supplemental stocking of other fish species. Every time I've caged FHM they ended up dying pretty quickly even though I was feeding them - same issue with GSH. What are your goals here, Funky?

Mainly to get, let's say GSH from really small to big enough to survive the LMB and CC. I plan on fishing out the larger CC this coming season as last fall we caught a few 27-29 inch 10# plus, and I know they can eat anything in the pond right now.

I have 1/4 inch netting I plan on using for a cage that would sit in the pond.

Funk - restate your goals, I'm confused. Want to help, but I thought we were focused on growing YP to sizes necessary to escape LMB predation? Now we're talking about GSH growout? I'm slow, be patient.

sorry, I am looking at a few different things, but mostly I am just looking at what would work for YP or GSH or anything that will get big enough to survive the big mouths in the pond at present. I have a few large CC's and hope to fish them out this next season, But, before then I am looking at might work to add more food and maybe YP.

Having said all that, I have been going back and reading some of the old posts about YP, and now wonder, is a half acre pond right for them? Is the water clear enough? I might be better of leaving YP alone and just work with what I have at present. I have lots of things I am thinking so, sorry if I lead you down a path as I think, and thanks for your patience !

I can't speak for TJ, but YP do go better with SMB vs LMB. Does that mean it won't work?? No, it all depends on habitat, water temp mid-summer, etc..
Never say never but with LMB present, it's going to be harder to do.
My 2 cts..

Per Cody and my own unfortunate experience, YP need depth of 13'+ to escape Summer temps or your larger YP [12"+] will struggle. I lost 75 12-13" female YP in a 9' depth pond during Summer months...exactly as Cody preached, they were fine a couple seasons until they hit the 12"+ mark. Something to bear in mind even though you're more North of me.

Now I wondering if being at 3700 ft elevation and even though 55-60 deg nights with upper 80's low 90's daytime is going to be an issue for me.. for YP growth. Hummm, maybe now is the time to engineer another 3 ft on mine.
Sorry, didn't mean to hijack..

I’m going to hijack a bit here also, my apologies. But do YP generally float if they die? I’m just thinking I should be seeing more in my pond than I do, but I never see any floating. I thought maybe they all sank. Or, more likely, they are all still there, I’ve just caught and released too many times.
Jeff

I'm in SW MI and my pond in mid summer with evaporation is likely 8' max. I aerate in the late spring, summer and early fall at night only to try to keep the water cooled down. So far I have caught a few 12" YP that are probably 4 years old now. Never had a single YP mortality and our kids are not always so gentle when they handle them after catching them and releasing them. They seem pretty hardy.

Of course the original stockers will be 5 years old later this year and hopefully more of them will pass the 12" mark. We'll see if they can do well this summer or not. I don't have the option of making any deeper areas for them...

When YP die, often, but not always they do not float and the deaths are not noticed.

Thanks Bill, I was afraid that might be the case. I’ll see how many ribbons I get this spring. The pond is full, so I should get a pretty good idea on the actual ribbon numbers.

Experience tells me that not all YP females will lay eggs each spring. Not sure yet why this happens. I often get only about 20-30% ribbons from the total number of females present.

Wow! I have never seen or heard that.. Very interesting. Definitely means I have more YP than I thought I did.
Thank you

Only 1/3 of my YP morts ended up floating - the rest were never seen per Cody.

I’ve seen zero floaters. Only two painted turtles are regularly hanging out. I’m guessing I’m not losing any, or just a few. We’ve caught a lot over the years, but nowhere near the original stocking numbers. I was thinking of adding some, now I’ll wait.
Thx TJ