Pond Boss
Posted By: david u Clay pigeons - 12/07/07 03:59 PM
Have finished a pond & waiting for it to fill up. My question is: Are the non-toxic clay pigeons toxic to fish if I set up a skeet thrower over the pond? Below are a few pics of dirt work, pier & pavilion. Is there any interest in the pictorial progression of this project? I did a fair amount of it myself, except for major dirt-work






Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Clay pigeons - 12/07/07 04:45 PM
1) IIRC, all the clay pigeons I launched over the years were supposed to be toxic to hogs, not any other animals. FWIW, most of them were shot in the field that my first pond went in a few years later. Most of the topsoil, which would have been infested with ex-pigeon pieces, is still in the watershed. To date, there have been no problems with the fish.

2) We pretty much love pictorial progression stories. Just stack the photos vertically instead of horizontally, so your post won't bump over into the guy at the next desk's monitor.
Posted By: Brettski Re: Clay pigeons - 12/07/07 04:45 PM
 Originally Posted By: david u
...Below are a few pics of dirt work, pier & pavilion. Is there any interest in the pictorial progression of this project?...

...a resounding YES!
(try to keep the pic widths at 640 - 700 Max pixels to keep the screen width normal... ;\)
Posted By: david u Re: Clay pigeons - 12/07/07 06:01 PM
Thanks for the response. Will post a resized pic below to see if it's the right size. Have time to post this since I fell from one of those ladders last week & fractured the tibial plateau into my knee joint. Can also share the +'s & -'s of my pond building experience if anyone's interested..du
Posted By: rmedgar Re: Clay pigeons - 12/07/07 08:35 PM
Details & pictures!!!! How many acres?
Posted By: Matt Clark Re: Clay pigeons - 12/13/07 07:53 PM
Clay pigeons won't be an issue, at least according to IDNR. There's about 274 quadrillion of 'em at the bottom of one of my ponds. Haven't seen a floating fish yet...
Posted By: dave in el dorado ca Re: Clay pigeons - 12/14/07 12:33 AM
wow, it let me log on!! the last time i got on, i made a quick post and it froze just after hitting the submit button......lets see this time.....

anywho, welcome to pondboss david u. i was involved w/ a major clean up at a local former air force base some years back. one of the projects was investigating and cleaning up the shooting and skeet range for redevelopment of the area. the skeet range was used from the late 1930's through the early 1990's.....i.e. about 60 yrs. over that time i am not sure how the composition of clay pigeons changed if any, i'm sure the EPA found early clay pigeons contained some potentially toxic stuff, and they are made differently today....but the clay pigeon debris was so thick at this site it formed a "geologic layer" over 10 feet deep. we pulled out and sampled some 10,000 cubic yards of dirt and analyzed for heavy metals and heavy carbon chain organic contaminants which could have potentially leached out of the debris field including PAHs, SVOCs, dioxins, etc......basically everything was clean and of extremely low environmental risk.......there's my input (long answer) to your (short) question \:\)

have fun
Posted By: Matt Clark Re: Clay pigeons - 12/14/07 05:28 PM
Wow, been in the safety & enviro field for over 15 years, and that's the first I've heard of actual test data supporting DNR's stance on the things.

Now...I assume you sampled for lead? What levels were found?
Posted By: Svoberts Re: Clay pigeons - 12/14/07 08:46 PM
I would echo Matt's concern. I would think that all the lead shot used in busting the clays would be much more damaging and harmful in the long run.

Its a bit ironic, I think, that they make duck hunters use non-toxic shot because, I believe, that the ducks will eat the shot later and that is what causes the problem of lead poisoning. But yet we hunt doves around the same body of water, or shoot clays, or hunt pheasants in the same stubble field we hunt geese over in the afternoon and we can use all the lead we want.
Posted By: dave in el dorado ca Re: Clay pigeons - 12/14/07 09:37 PM
loggin in is sure hit or miss...and i'm sure i'll get locked up again after posting....so off topic.....i miss you too guys (in response to a PM)

matt, the soils were screened for heavy particles (lead shot). it was a huge undertaking but there is a big market amongst recyclers for lead taken from former DOD shooting ranges. the levels were (obviously) high before screening and near background after screening. the screened dirt was left on-site for backfill, the lead impacted dirt hauled off for further refining to recyclers.

sv, i dont really understand the regulatory rationale there either. i believe, for the most part, many heavy metals in soil or water, such as lead, are relatively inert in and of themselves, and their leaching potential is pretty low compared to other types of contaminants. perhaps in the water the pathway for ingestion is more direct as you suggest w/ the ducks.

either way, i dont think david u could ever put enough lead in his pond to create two headed ducks, but that is just my opinion, and i still urge david u to have fun!

o.k. now for the "submit"............
Posted By: Theo Gallus Re: Clay pigeons - 12/14/07 10:43 PM
I recall seeing a study that the lead from shooting backstops/ranges ends to stay confined to the impact area, rather than "migrating" away from there to affect other space.
Posted By: eddie_walker Re: Clay pigeons - 12/15/07 05:41 PM
From what I remember on the conversion from lead shot to steel shot wasn't because the lead was toxic to the birds being shot, or that it was contaminating the marsh, it was becasue the scavengers that were eating the wounded birds "might" get sick from the lead.

It was a big public debate and those leading the charge for getting rid of lead shot made a big deal of showing pics of bald eagles eating ducks. At no time did I ever hear of any evidence that lead in those ducks will kill or hurt an eagle, but they won the day by implying that it could happen. Seems lots of people will vote for something based on "what if" and "maybe."

I've done some skeet shooting over my small 3/4 acre pond and don't like finding the pieces of clay pigeons that don't make it into the water. For that reason, I stoped shooting in that area. I don't have any problems doing so over my bigger, 4 acre pond. It has nothing to do with the fish, but everything to do with creating a mess that I don't want to see.

Eddie
Posted By: Matt Clark Re: Clay pigeons - 12/17/07 09:42 PM
Eddie:

I agree...I don't like seeing the pieces, either. However, there's about 6 of us that shoot at my place. One's my best buddy and he and his 70-something brother will neither go to a range. This is really the only place either will shoot, anymore. I'll tolerate the odd orange piece for them...

OTOH, what few pieces we might ever see, mostly get overgrown by grass in short order...if only we'd hit a few more of 'em, we'd see fewer and for less time! \:D
© Pond Boss Forum