In spite of working 24X7 until the Dallas trip on the 1st of November, by careful and extremely fine tuned multi-tasking there has been some pond activity.



Perhaps, I exaggerate some on the work part!

A glimpse into a man's workshop is a glimpse into his soul.

Yours is a lot neater than mine.

So now tell us what it is , how it works and the other specifics so that we won't be lost in the singularity. :p

Ewest, it looks like a horizontal aerator to me. :p

http://www.kascomarine.com/products_circulators.htm

Theo Gallus – If my shop is neater then yours then you, my friend, have a propensity for consummate chaos! :p

Ewest – It is a Kasco deicer mounted on a float. The grey box is a timer/temperature controller.

I want to keep an open area on the pond for my pond barge (still to be constructed) and for attracting wild life that will enthusiastically drink from open water rather than eating snow and licking ice during the famous Minnesota winter.

This winter is a test of performance and where to ultimately locate the deicer. The float was the easiest method to keep the deicer relatively mobile for those purposes.

If you want to know more, it is all here: http://www.de-icer.com/

Shorty – Perhaps it is a turbo-prop water spitter (TPWS)! Please see my response to Ewest for an explanation. :rolleyes:

Actually Bruce has one at his pond for circulating the water to keep the O2 levels up in the hot summer months in his big pond. His is mounted a little differently though. You can use it as an emergency aerator too in the summer Dwight, it has a dual use. Here is a picture of Bruce's.



From this thread.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000125;p=2

Shorty – I plan on reading that whole thread to glean more knowledge about ATP.

Bruce’s unit appears to be a 3/4 HP or 1 HP, mine is just a baby @ 1/4 HP.

My sechi disk reading is 24-30", depending on the area. Why is your water be so clear?

Theo Gallus – I hope that I haven’t gone too far with my propensity for consummate chaos comment! If so, I will apologize profusely.

If you are watching The Man Show on G4, then I withdraw my profuse apology!

Mine is 3/4 hp. I wasn't aware that they make a 1/4 hp!! Where did you find that, Dwight?

You have not gone too far. Decorum does not permit me to post pictures of the collections of chaos that are my working areas (3 workbenches in the basement, a shed, and a barn), but let me assure you they are messier than your shop.

I don't trust clean working areas - they must be a sign of inactivity (as opposed to jobs that take years to complete - I got those and they are NOT clean). But you, Sir, have just enough clutter to indicate a nice level of activity without the apparent presence of safety hazards or small vermin underfoot.

Bruce Condello - As per normal my typing is suspect, 1/2 HP not 1/4 HP. They make 1/2, 3/4, and 1 HP for general sale.

Have you been happy with the performance of your 3/4 HP?

Theo Gallus - It is nice to know that I am not alone in my project completion quest.

Another shop, a 59 Desoto project...

Approximate deicer location:

I used to figure stuff would just work. Now I do some testing. This is the test setup of the timer/temperature controller.



It may still not work, but at least I am trying.

Great question Dwight, here is the answer, we have an over abundance of aquatic vegetation and also have tree lines that keep the NE wind from stirring up the water. Excess nutrients feed the growth of a variety of weeds rather than an algea bloom in the summer. On the positive side though we purchased and set up a couple of horizontal aerators this summer, next spring I am going point the horizontal aeraotor/circulators towards the bank in order to stir up the water and reduce the clarity in an attmpt to keep the weed growth down. I may also do a heavy catfish stocking in an attempt to reduce the water clarity that typically feeds the aquatic vegetation growth in 7-9 ft of water. If you read Bruce's excellent HA thread you will find that he originally put his 3/4 HP circulator in one of his smaller ponds which created some less than desirable clarity conditions due to the strong current, he then moved it to his bigger pond. Keep this in mind when setting yours up, you may need to move it around and play with where it is pointed if you start seeing some reduced water clarity in your pond.

Shorty - Thanks for the info and tips on water clarity issues.

I do plan to position the deicer-circulator (now that I know it has multiple use potential that I hadn’t considered) approximately 30 feet from shore in 10 feet of water. Initially I will point it toward the shore line and see how it goes. Since I have a mobile and temporary setup, it will be easy to relocate. The pond bottom is gravel and sand so I am hoping water clarity issues are not a problem.

Still learning!

Dwight, Since installing the 3/4 hp circulator my water quality is the best it's ever been. I've maintained a consistant algae bloom that gives me Secchi readings between 18 and 26 inches all summer with NO fish kills. I run mine continuously during the summer, but may turn it off from November to April since I don't care if I get ice.

Dwight, here is another thread you should look at when considering using your circulator during the summer time.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000086

Bruce Condello –
Shorty –

I am thinking that even though my reasoning was suspect, I may have accidentally found a great year around solution. Open water in the winter and great water quality the rest of the year.

I hate to throw a clinker in here, but, do you suppose that the current created by the circulator would make it possible for the Walleye to spawn in a pond? Perhaps that is a discussion for another time.

The deicer/circulator went in the water this afternoon.

Everything went as planned other than the wind was 25-35mph form the wrong direction. This is normal in southwestern Minnesota (the wind being against you at all times)!

The orange wire ties are at 20 feet, 30 feet, and 40 feet. I didn’t want to be measuring stuff with a 10 foot tape measure out on the water!


Driving a fence post into large rock gravel is an excruciatingly slow process, even with a 50 pound post driver.


It looks like the wreck of the Hesperus, but I set it in the water so I could come in with my Bantam and pull it out into position.

This is the view from the Bantam.


This is a view from the shore.


It is a good start!

(editted for picture display)

I'm a big advocate of traditional aeration setups, but for my own ponds I didn't run aerators this year to experiment with circulation in all of my ponds. So far, very effective.

Theo Gallus - Apparently the trainee messed up. Thanks for putting it right!

(edited for picture display) [October 06, 2006, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Theo Gallus ]

Bruce Condello - Let's keep the circulation discussion going. Perhaps at some point in the future we could assemble our ( and others ) experience and share the results with our fellow ATP ones on the PB Forum......

I'm in.

ewest-
Those questions haunted me to the point that I went out in the grove today and drug out some useful looking structure items with the Mule.



Now, I am hanging on the edge of an inverse quantum fluctuation. It doesn’t get any better than that!!!

You should be careful. When that thing catches the circulator and steals its power the thing will start calling home and next thing you know a bunch of fish eating ETs will show up for dinner. Even worse it might call the pirates to start frequenting your pond for winter experiments. You know they like winter open water in far north ponds . :p :p

If you are going to use it as a circulator in summer watch your water carefully. From past pics and descriptions you have very good water. You can mess it up. While circulation is great and needed by many -- you may not need it. I suspect it will help but keep a close watch.

Ewest – Your analytical prowess continues to amaze!

Once again you have analyzed a situation using sensory signals as well as empirical evidence to make a thoroughly informed and transcendent observation.

I will place the satellite dish face down pointing towards North Korea so any signal will be absorbed into mother earth and then transmuted into an anti-nuclear sonic vibration.

I will keep an eye on the circulator if I decide to use it in the summer months, too.

Still Learning?

An easily moved deicer-circulator mounted on a float sounds great but presents a serious problem.

Apparently the torque of the motor at start up is significant and causes the back anchor to move a foot or two each time it starts.

This causes the ropes to become slack and at some point the front rope gets sucked into the prop at start up and is cut off.

http://www.bremerpond.com/circulatorinstall.jpg

I was lucky that the under-water power cord was not touched by the prop or I would have had to pay significantly for this particular learning experience. :rolleyes:

Here's my solution. Screw four sleeves into the side of the float, then take four metal posts and pound them into the ground.

Bruce Condello – Shorty posted the circulator/float photo earlier in the thread and I understood and appreciated your design.

Presently, I need to be more portable. I have a revised design that should take care of that maximum torque at 0 RPM electric motor deal.

I do have some questions/concerns about your circulator/float photo.

The MDC holding the circulator/float from falling off the end table is puzzling to me. Are there numerous ball bearings under the float?

The VOM and charging device on the next end table are also puzzling. What are those white things?

There is another charging device and several sealed batteries sitting on your bed (table).

I hope you weren’t injured by that shelf bracket when you when to sleep that night.

Why would you sleep on a hard table like that?
:p

The MDC is for perspective in the picture. If you haven't noticed there is a hidden MDC can in every photo I've ever posted.

I think the white things are twist ties.

I often sleep with my circulator. My wife sends me out to the farm when I'm in trouble...hence the name of the cabin being "The Dog House". Sometimes I get in trouble on purpose so I can go to the farm.

Dwight, as you've surely experienced by now, people with deep-seated problems, be they mental or even physical addictions, will often send signals, or leave warning signs, in the hopes that someone will take notice and save them.

In Bruce's situation, you can view the DMD can as merely the tip of the ice berg, so to speak.

We are all still trying to figure out what the jump ropes mean (as can be seen in the Horizontal Aeration thread).

Bruce Condello, I understand the trouble part. but the rest is confusing, even disturbing! :p

Sunil - Thank you for the explanation, now I do understand.

The ropes are not jump ropes. They are safety ropes.

I have a hypothermia phobia.

When I swim out to work on the circulator in 20 below zero weather, I need to have a backup method of returning to shore. The second rope is a backup in case the first rope breaks. It is all pretty simple, really!
:rolleyes:

Dwight, have you tried more weight on your anchor ropes? We use 40 lb cement blocks on ours and they don't move but our aerators are also a bit different than your's or Bruce's. Also, you will want to have your rope length 3 times the depth the anchors are sitting in. We are using heavy poly rope that floats, two anchors on the front that angle off to the sides and one straight off the back.

PS A 12ft jon boat would save some swimming in that "20 below zero weather."

Shorty - This weekend I am going do approximately what you are recommending here. I have some conrete blocks sitting in the warehouse, just itching for a job to do.

Thanks for the tip on usng a boat in frigid weather!

It is supposed to get down to 19 degrees here tonight (above zero)!

Dwight, the jump ropes were in a photo posted by Bruce. The jump ropes are just one of the "cries for help" in the photo that gives a schematic of his aeration idea.

Actually, I don't know in which thread he originally posted that picture.

Dwight I put some "structure" similar to what you have in the picture in my pond with the idea that it would always remain hidden by the water. Well we have had the worst drought in fifty years going on for the last two years. This low water has caused my pond to look like a junkyard and so now I've decided to pull it out and haul it off. I think that from now on the only structure I'm going to place in the pond will be more natural looking. I am only saying this because removing this mess is more difficult than not putting it in the first place. However you may not have the water fluctuations we have in Texas and putting it in would not be objectionable. Just something to think about.

James, my thoughts are exactly as you described about low water drought stricken pond "structure" turning into junkyards.

Sunil - In the future, please be more specific when talking about jump ropes in photos. Now everyone knows about my phobia, when, they wouldn't have needed to know! :p

james holt-
george -

I don't have water fluctuations in the pond like those ponds that depend on surface rain water to keep them full.

The pond water surface is at the same level as the top of the ground water table. The fluctuation that does occur is minimal in relation to some the photos I have seen of ponds in Texas and other drought areas. With heavy rains, it will get deeper, but always returns to the water table after a few days.

Thanks for you comments. I believe they will be useful to many others since it appears my type of pond is not the norm for most Pond Boss Subscribers.

I don't foresee ever seeing that structure again other then on my underwater camera or sonar, thankfully!

Other mounting considerations are to use the universal dock mount on a treated 4x4 post or a galvanized pole. You may also find that some braided, vinyl coated steel will prevent rodents from turning your de-icer into a giant wire twisty on the back of every toy that your children get every christmas. The dock mounts are slightly cheaper.

RBurke Keystone Hatcheries - "You may also find that some braided, vinyl coated steel will prevent rodents from turning your de-icer into a giant wire twisty on the back of every toy that your children get every christmas."

Please explain..

Ok boys & girls, its update time!

I have included my original rope cutting issue comments and diagrams (with a new diagram added).

If this is a dying horse, either tell me to shut up, or just ignore me all together and I will go away!!

None of this is drawn to scale - too lazy...



Photo of the new ropes and pipes:


I hope BC doesn't see those jump ropes on the left side!

....No, I'm just noticing the two hundred fishing rods and reels you've got. Looks like my basement.

Is that carpet? My workshop floor would look kind of like that if I could get the mold to be all the same color.

Bruce Condello - Sorry to say, those are the rods and reels that came out of my Bass Boat that I winterized, already!

Do you have ice on you pond(s) in Denton during the winter?

We used to have ice for 10 weeks at a time. The last few years we're lucky to get ten hours.

Theo Gallus – This is just a small area of my corporate work place where I have a few hobby items stored temporarily.

Mold isn’t a very cooperative organism.

Bruce Condello - Do you like fishing through the ice?

I see a frown after, I would happily beam over 5 or 6 inches from here in Jan-Feb! :rolleyes:

I love fishing through the ice. I just have very demanding criteria.

1. Ice at least 5 inches thick
2. Air temperature over 35 degrees
3. No wind or light winds
4. Lots of fish biting
5. NFL playoff game blaring on the radio from my truck
6. Beef jerky or goose jerky readily available

By the way, I really like the diagram. It is very applicable to my situation. I hope you keep posting on it, Dwight. I'm going to be turning mine off for the season next week or the week after, and putting it in the building for cleaning and service. I'm assuming that my oxygen problems will be a thing of the past when the water temps drop to the 40's.

Bruce Condello – I too am a fair weather ice fisher. My criteria vary somewhat from yours, but conceptually we are on the same agenda.

1. Ice at least 12 inches thick so I can drive on the ice down to the heated ice fishing shack.
2. Air temperature over 0 degrees
3. No wind or light winds
4. Lots of fish biting
5. NFL playoff game on the radio in the fishing shack.
6. Snacks and beverages readily available


What type of maintenance do you perform on the circulator?

I will add to the post as I learn anything new.

We are expecting 35 mph winds here again today, sheeesh!

I have 6ppt salt levels in my ponds so I have to check the circulator for corrosion and clean if necessary. I'm not sure yet if I need to do any winter lubricant checks, since I haven't had them during a winter yet. I'll try to get the manual later today.

Dwight, on our aerators we use a 3 point anchoring system. Two ropes and two concrete blocks off the front, one rope and one concrete block off the back. It is in the shape of a "Y" witht he current going out the top of the "Y".

The twisty comment can be explained after trying to deal with a 200' power cord being wrapped up in two anchor ropes with algae, all being anchored by 3 cinder blocks.
My girls get dolls and other toys anchored in the box by thin, vinyl coated wire that is very time consuming to remove unless you have some cutting equipment.

Bruce, come again? 6 ppt as in parts per trillion? on what type of device can you measure sodium chloride to ppt levels? and are levels of salt in the ppt range really anything to be at all concerned about?

educate me in el dorado

Bruce Condello – I would think since the circulator is designed for use in salt water, there wouldn’t be much to do other than checking the anode and an exterior clean-up.

You may need to come up with another excuse to go to the cabin.

Hmmmm.. Sounds like Bruce's wife reads the forum. He uses a similarly calibrated device that he uses to measure 1/1 millionth of an inch of rainfall.

Shorty – Your 3 point setup appears to be the way to go with a float system. I would do that tomorrow, but I still want to have the ability to pull the whole system in closer to shore during my “testing the system winter”.

I hope you noticed in the diagram that I took your recommendation and went to a concrete block on the back. I am also using a 40 foot length of rope on the back end as per your recommendation to a have a rope at least three times the depth of the water.

I am putting the revised system back on line tomorrow. It is supposed to be a balmy 48 degrees, with wind 8 to 15 mph.

RBurke Keystone Hatcheries – Good grief, that sounds like a massive entanglement!

I haven’t had the opportunity of dealing with those toy anchors that you describe.

I can tell you that as you go further through life with daughters you will find the toy anchors were actually fun as compared to cars and boys, or any combination of boys and cars!! :p

That's 6 parts per thousand, folks. As in 6,000 parts per million. Seawater is 36 parts per thousand. That's one reason why HSB do so well in my ponds. They can tolerate salinities up to nearly full seawater. My well water is about ten times saltier than you'd want to drink. Interestingly, my water is similar in salinity to a bluegill's body. That may be one reason why my bluegill grow so well and have so few disease problems. They are expending little or no energy to maintain an osmotic gradient. All the more energy to go towards growth. I've also found that redear sunfish thrive in levels like this. I've got some that grew quite large this summer, although I'm hesitant to tell anybody how big. I don't know if anybody would believe me. :p

...Now look who's got the good memory.

and by the way...

Where the heck is my anode?

awlright, in and as it relates to dwight's maintenance requirements on his circulator..........

i deal with analytical data in ppm, ppb, and ppt (parts per trillion) on a daily basis so that one had me....when it gets that high we either stay with ppm or go to percentage.

oh oh, i'm having an off topic brettski_itus attack.....a thought out of the box....

so if yer theory is correct bruce, for those of us managing for big lepomis, and assuming most of us have normal (fresh) pondwater, we could carefully salt our ponds for happier and bigger BG and RES? calibrate and add x lbs of salt to Y gallons of pondwater volume to yield concentrations in the low ppt (parts per thousand) hmmmmmmmm.

D.I.E.D, I actually think that could be possible. I even ran an analysis of it and it wasn't that incredibly expensive. It could help with keeping diseases levels low, but I'm concerned with what it might do to the plant community. I have no filamentous algae, no duckweed, no chara, no coontail. Just sago (potemogeton) and cattails--and not many of the latter.

And for whatever reason, I always see water analyses listed in ppm, but when texts report on salinity levels it's listed in parts per thousand. Don't know why, it just is.

Sample. http://el.erdc.usace.army.mil/zebra/zmis/zmishelp4/salinity_level.htm

Bruce Condello - Your anode is located on your circulator shaft.

I hope I am not headed for a steady diet of government cheese and living in a Van down by the river!

All right lets hear about those RES !!! You have to quit keeping these things secret. It seems like we have to keep asking about once a mth.

If your water has a ph of 7.4 with the same salt content as blood you should be set.

Fish and other vertebrates have an
average blood pH of 7.4. Fish
blood comes into close contact
with water (1- or 2-cell separation)
as it passes through the blood vessels
of the gills and skin. A desirable
range for pond water pH
would be close to that of fish
blood (i.e., 7.0 to 8.0).

...a character building lifestyle that nurtured me through adolescence. No wonder I spent so much time in Wisconsin as a kid.
-
-
Dave's exasperated cry for help:
...welcome to my world; want some cheese?

My pH is 8.0.

My salinity is 6 ppt.

My fish are, in essence, swimming in their own blood.

I took a picture of one, but I didn't post it for fear that Theo would comment on the length of my arms. I transplanted some into my Dad's pond (circular aeration pond, with bluegill condo) and the size distribution went from a range of 7.5 to 9.5 inches, to a range of 9 to 10.5 inches in five months. The body condition is ridiculously good. I don't know RES Wr's, but I would equate them to a BG at 130.

Brettski – What do you think about dumping bags of water softener pellets in your pond water as per the BC and D.I.E.D discussion?

I can almost guarantee that it would kill all the Topekas Shiners in my pond and destroy all hope for the $5,000,000 pond improvement grant that I applied for.

TOPEKA SHINER

If you hooked up the monster according to the blueprint, it's the neck bolt on the right side.

ewest – Thank you for keeping things in perspective!

Our water PH has always been around 7.5, good!

Bruce :

Am I correct in assuming and/or remembering that these RES are single-sexed?

Yes, in this pond they're all female. In my big pond I have all male. In the big pond there are 26 males swimming around in 12 acre-feet of water. If that doesn't produce good growth rates I don't know what will. I may never catch one to find out, but if I do it could be scary.

Dwight closely monitors his Morton stock investment: I cannot see any other options if I am really serious about stocking Shamu. I still regret Theo talking me out of using the monster-truck tires for structure. I gotta start a chum thread, too.

Bruce -- if your well water has some iron in it then it sounds like a hemoglobin bath. Throw in the horz. aeration and some food (pellets) and no wonder Dr. Frankenbruce has so much success his lab is a natural womb.

Ski -- I can't believe you did not use the monster tires but there is still time. Drill a few holes in them , pour quickcrete in the side opposite the holes , get a rope with grappling hook , put them all on the Liberty Ferry and motor out right above the big hole. Find the hole edge and one by one lower them to the bottom so they stand up on the hole edge until they circle the entire hole. Just be real sure not to get the rope wrapped around your ankle when you lower the first tire. We would not want Mrs. Boss-ski to get wet when she jumps in to get you un-anchored . That is if the thing does not displace all the water in the pond and ground the Liberty Ferry when you throw it in.

Dwight -- it is easy for me to make transcendent observations when the singularity space between my ears is empty. Hey -- but at least I am not swimming in a blood or water softener enhanced pond or tangled up in 200' power cord being wrapped up in two anchor ropes with algae, all being anchored by 3 cinder blocks and a satellite dish calling ET via China. You could use Ski's monster tractor tires with quickcrete as anchors.

Now if only I could keep the water temperature at 78 degrees year 'round.

Theo Gallus - The anode on my 1/2hp circulator is clamped on the motor shaft. Perhaps they use a different design on different sizes. Who Knows?

Dwight, I think Theo's joking. I believe it's a Frankenstein reference.

One enjoys seeing the look on their face the first time they're reeled in, but they become hook-shy so fast. Like The Guvnor.

[QOUTE]Dwight, I think Theo's joking. I believe it's a Frankenstein reference.[/QUOTE]

I am still not thinking inside the Frankenstein box, always out there on some tangent. :rolleyes:

wisconsin sharp cheddar please

its just scale related, thats why I was taken aback at what i thought was parts per trillion....salinity is considered a "major" constituent in any water (i.e. along with other chlorides, carbonates, bicarbonates, oxides, N-P-K, Fe, Mg, Ca...etc.) this as opposed to a "minor or trace" constituent (i.e. metals Ba, Se, Cr, Cd, Pb, Cu, Zn etc.)

for soil, water, or rock, most "majors" are reported in either percentage, parts per thousand (grams per) or ppm (milligrams per). Most "minors" are reported in either ppb (micrograms per) or ppt (nanograms per)

i'm really intrigued with the salt idea....thinking i'll plumb my softener brine drain line to a place where I can capture the discharge occassionally....salinity meters arent that expensive, would have to be very careful towards end of summer evap sos not to concentrate saline to high.....good topic for another thread......sorry dwight, back to anodes....

The revised installation was activated this afternoon. If you look to the left you can see the 10 foot PVC space time continuum limiter doing its job.

The rear one is doing its job too, though not to be seen by mortal eyes.



Surface water temperature - 45 degrees!

I waited for the air temperature to drop to 30 degrees to witness an automatic startup.

I apologize for my lousy night photography. I need to read up on that subject.

In the first photo, that red glow is the running indicator light.

The second photo is the circulator running and splashing around there towards the back.

As you can see the pond water is clearing significantly as the water temp drops.

Man, Dwight. You're water quality looks spectacular. Can you please inform us once again what species are present and what your ultimate goal is?

Bruce Condello – It is good water, indeed! The fishery is diverse due to the pond being connected to the Rock River during the summer months for the 10 years it took to complete the pond.

Known Fish Species:

Large Mouth Bass
Bluegill
Bullhead
Northern Pike
Small Mouth Bass
Yellow Perch
Carp
Fathead Minnow
Topeka Shiner

The only fish that have been stocked are Fathead Minnows and a few Bluegills.

I continue to debate with myself whether stocking game fish is really necessary given the diverse fishery. At one point I considered taking out the whole fishery and starting over (I gave up on that for various reasons, including cost). I am currently thinking that the fishery may take care of itself with some supplemental stocking to keep things in balance. But then…………

The Largemouth Bass, Bluegill, Bullhead, Yellow Perch and Fatheads are all reproducing as evidenced by seining that I do periodically. I have yet to see a current year Northern Pike, Small Mouth Bass, Carp, or Topeka Shiner. Either these fish are not reproducing, or their reproduction is being taken care of by predation. Perhaps seining isn’t effective on these species?

My ultimate goal is Pond Nirvana, where ever that may take me. A pond is a huge living organism and being its caretaker is a big responsibility. It is all great fun and an unending learning process!

Last night was cold enough that the deicer/circulator should have been churning away all night long, but the running light was off.

This afternoon I pulled everything up on shore and found that the power cable had been chomped off!

Irritated muskrat family?
Nocturnal pirates have returned earlier than usual?
Bremer Pond is in Damnation Alley?

Back to the shop......



Bruce Condello taught me about the importance of perspective in a photograph, so I placed a future building block for the Corona Reef in the photo.

Very strange, indeed.

A plastic prop can't really do that, right? That looks like a really clean cut!

Pirates trying to get your Corona?

Bruce Condello - It is a clean cut and the cord was tie-wrapped in several places on the guard. I don’t see how it could have gotten in the prop.

I may have to put the Corona on ice and contemplate opening it at some point.

Finally someone puts a man's drink in a photo. I was starting to worry.

It seems odd that the power cord connects to the motor within what seems to be the propellar cage.

Then again, perhaps you too have Navy Seal Team 6 co-habitating your pond. They single handedly put my friend and I in the drink when they toppled our canoe late one night many years back at my pond. My friend still has night mares of coming face-to-face with a frogman while grappling for his life underwater.

Sunil - I didn't know if it was legal to put a Corona in the photo, but, I have always been a risk taker.

I just hope there isn't some prehistoric creature in the pond that likes the thrill of biting a live electrical cable under water!

I have a plan….
:rolleyes:

Dwight, it's possible that the plastic blade cut the cord, I know I nicked one of our power cords pretty good with my trolling motor when I moved the aerator, it's a 32 lb thrust 12V motor and it was on low speed when I nicked it pretty good, it also has a plastic blade.

Shorty - I still believe that is what happened, though how, is still a question.

fire it up on the bench and knick a taut section of the cord. I'm hesitant on the belief that a cut that clean came from that fan. It would mean that it occurred in one quick, clean pass of one blade. Is the adjacent area of the cord scuffed or knicked?
You may want to start the knick test with something a little softer; say something like a lime...

Seems like even if the plastic prop could go through the insulation, it would have difficulty going through all that copper that cleanly. What do I know, anyway?

Brettski – My Safety Engineer background made it difficult for me to follow your suggestion to:

I do really enjoy bench tests, so.

I clamped the circulator to the bench and rigged up a temporary power connection to the motor. I tie-wrapped a section of the old underwater power cord in place so the prop would hit it at motor start-up. I figured the motor would stall and pop the internal breaker, before I had a chance to hit the disconnect.

Whack, it was a perfect cut in one or less revolution of the prop!

I couldn’t believe it, so I had a single iced Corona with a slice of lime to settle myself down.

Thanks for the tip on the lime. :p

Bruce Condello –

Can I join your, “What do I know, anyway?” club?

Well, there ya go...the Bremer Whack test delivers results again! Now, if you can find a way to safely hold the lime, I'll blow a call into Ron Popeil...

Brettski - Mass marketing requires more than 1 interested person.

It could work if the fan is lime green and you include some “Guaranteed to Glow Lime Seeds”.

As long as I get my 9% development fee per unit, you guys can split the rest.
:p

...yes, Oh Chef of the Future...but, will it core a apple?

So what you're telling me is that it wasn't a pirate...

NO !!!! :rolleyes:

What he is telling you is : KEEP YOUR FINGERS , TOES AND OTHER ASSORTED BODY PARTS OUT OF THE PROP. ", unless you are a pirate in which case just land in the prop. -- but don't get pirate genetics in his pond. :p :p

Brettski – It would do a nice job of coring a big pumpkin, though messy and hard to control.

They better update their warning labels to state that coring pumpkins is not and intended use.

No puking pumpkin photos, Please!

Bruce Condello – I am still not sure how it happened. The bench test certainly reduces the level of suspicion pointed in the pirate’s direction.

ewest - With the power that baby has you could make your own pelletized(whacked) fish food. Just toss a quarter of beef behind it, run for cover and watch those Bluegill grow exponentially.

Is there a way we can hide this idea from BC. His Bluegill are already too big? (and sexually mature at 11 months )

This would be another non-intended use to add to the product warning label.
:rolleyes:

ewest - Piragenetics?

Dwight yes from spider holes and pirate foot skin stuck to the ice ( now chopped off by the prop). Read this thread from last winter.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=002231;p=1

ewest –The pirate phenomena are far more pervasive and multi-dimensional than I had imagined!

Happily, I am still learning.

I have messed up beyond forgiveness by referring to Bruce Condello as BC when Bill Cody is BC.

I am an ignorant slug.

You don't need to seek redemption from this crazy group. Many have multiple screen names and (? personalities). I knew who you were talking about , but FWIW Bill has some big BG and big YP .

New photos

Looks good Dwight. In reference to your 3rd and 4th pictures, is that furhead wheel chock the result of the empty Corona?

ROFLOL -- Russ that was the cat's meow !!

Russ, you look at pictures close! From now on, I'm going over mine very carefully before posting.

Russ - He prefurs his Corona with a mouse head rather than a lime slice. It works pretty well as all the juice comes out of the mouse head as it is forced through the bottle neck, with a Philips screw driver. It gives the Corona an odd pinkish color which really gets him purrrrn.

A guy posts a photo of his new pirate-proof design and some asks about the furry wheel chock. Go figure! :rolleyes:

My apologizes sir. Unfortunately that picture brought back memories of the time I worked in a filling station and almost became a human speed bump. For some reason while I was working under a customers car, she got in and started it up!

Back on the subject of your new and improved aerator, would you care to explain why, as shown in the first photo, you have multiple holes drilled in the motor mount bracket?

Russ – Good grief, my friend, no apologizes please! You can call me anything but sir (within reason). I had a good laugh about the furhead wheel chock comment.

When you are working under a vehicle always have the keys in your pocket, as you already know from experience. This is especially true when she, I won’t go there…..

The multiple holes in the brackets are there so you can adjust the angle of the circulator to meet your needs. The float and all the brackets are included in the float kit from Kasco.

"is that furhead wheel chock the result of the empty Corona? " will soon be in the PB funnies !!

ewest - will that be a new category?

OMGosh! I cant believe I have missed this thread I have read it through now and have lmao several times. Thanks!

It got down to 28 degrees here overnight. When I arose this morning the running light was glowing and the circulator was doing its thing. I currently have the timer/thermostat set at 30 degrees and on from 9PM to 8AM

Just practicing!

It was dead calm this morning. With the circlator running the entire pond had a ripple on it.
When the circulator stopped the pond was smooth as glass.

I am surprized that a 1/2 hp circulator could cause water movement on five acres of water!

Its physics at its best. You remember old Newton - right.

Newton's Laws of Motion:

I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

II. "Law of Inertia". The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

This law is exemplified by what happens if we step off a boat onto the bank of a lake: as we move in the direction of the shore, the boat tends to move in the opposite direction (leaving us facedown in the water, if we aren't careful!).

Or :

First law

An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted upon by an external and unbalanced force . An object in motion will remain in motion unless acted upon by an external and unbalanced force.

Second law
The rate of change of the momentum of a body is directly proportional to the net force acting on it, and the direction of the change in momentum takes place in the direction of the net force.

Third law
To every action (force applied) there is an equal but opposite reaction (equal force applied in the opposite direction).

ewest - I can tell that you were lying in wait, hoping to spring your physics lesson on an unsuspecting pond guy.

I envision a Bass lurking in the shadows hoping suck in a nice fat crawdad, thinking similiarly.

Perhaps you have begun to think like a Bass? :p

LOL I guess all us predators are the same right -- you to. :p :p

Any way he can work LAW into the conversation, he will. Hey, I know those laws of physics(especially the one about stepping out of a boat), maybe I'm closer to being an attorney than I thought. :rolleyes:

I forgot law # 3 a few times and almost ended up face down in the water.

BM how much water is in the pond after the rain. Fish still there I hope.

EW, hoping not to kill this thread, but...will find out next weekend. Going for several days. Really didnt wish for the 2nd rain. Ruined my plans for cleanup of the shallows, but I'm flexible. Got a new larger chainsaw to cleanup the Katrina downed trees. Always plenty to do.

Now back to the main topic...horizontal winter aeration. Sorry Bremer Pond...it was such a focused discussion. As Sunil says 'tough audience'.

That water movement will save your fish someday. This "ripple" increases the surface air/water interface tremendously. It also prevents you from having a protein scum on the surface that prevents diffusion of oxygen into the water. Amazing, isn't it?

Bruce nailed it. I wish I would have had the "ripple effect" this summer before I lost some nice fish to a DO crash. If I am home during the next DO crash, I am ready this time. Just hope it was my first and last.

Normally if you are prepared, the mishap never occurs, huh?

Bruce whats this protein scum you referred too look like? I have a scum that forms on the surface of the pond that has a green tint to it with bubbles in it that goes away after a rain then reappears a few days later. I was thinking that it was some sort of algae, and i think cutrine plus was working on it.

Dwight,

When in full operation, do you think the ripple effect across the pond will result in a much larger ice-free area than anticipated?

Bruce,
In order to combat the protein scum effect, Dwight would have to run this unit during the summer right? Any thoughts on how often and how long he would need to do this? I see a "scum" build up on my little BG pond during the daytime in the dead of summer. After the diffusers run at night, the water looks fine by morning.

ewest – Law # 3, when violated on water is far better then the same violation committed on hardened water (ICE). I have experimented with that a few times over the years and can attest to that fact.

Burgermeister – The focus of a thread is never clear on PBF as predators are lurking in the shadows of very productive structure.

The pond scum that forms on the top of eutrophic ponds is a non-issue generally on a sunny day, because light penetration is allowing for photosynthesis. The only time it is a significant issue is during the wee hours of the morning when it's been calm all night and plants are respiring. This can be the summer kiss 'o' death for your fish. Early morning summer fish kills are devastating when they happen.

No wind, no photosynthesis (respiration), lots of B.O.D. and pond scum can wipe out all of your hard work in about 30 minutes.

So, in answer to the question, you could theoretically run the circulator from 3 a.m. to 7 a.m. all summer and early fall to help your chances of keeping your fish population healthy.

Russ – Since I have the timer/temperature controller I can adjust the ice free area as needed. I have a feeling that during a two week cold snap where the temperature remains below zero during the day and into the teens and twenties below zero at night the ice free area will be relatively small, even running 24 hours a day.

From Bruce Condello experience, I may find that the timer/temperature controller is a handy item all year long.

There are very large ripples on the pond tonight. The anemometer just registered 52 mph out of the northwest!

Sometime put some fathead minnows in a styro cooler. When they use up the oxygen they'll start "piping" at the surface. Now take your finger, dip it in the water and start to circulate the water. Every time you do that you'll save the fish for another ten minutes. Using a Kasco circulator is the same concept on a grand scale.

Circulator Update-

We have had temperatures in the low to mid teens during the night and cold days too. With the circulator running for only 2 hours from 6AM-8AM the ice freezes over completely during the night. When the circulator kicks on at 6AM the water movement melts the ice in front of the circulator and the opening then spreads out to and along the shoreline in both directions.

I have included some photos so you can see what I am rambling on about. The photos were taken after the circulator had run for nearly the full two hours.

Circulator looking south:


Circulator looking east:


Circulator looking west:


Why does this interest me? Am I the only one? Did my brain overheat when I was a baby due to lack of cooling air circulation causing a circulation fixation?

"Why does this interest me? Am I the only one? Did my brain overheat when I was a baby due to lack of cooling air circulation causing a circulation fixation?"

Naw, Dwight. You're just a freak. Live with it.

I'm a freak too, I guess. My circulator is of great interest to me, because once I started using it I never had any more fish die.

Keep the photos coming, Dwight. Just remember that those blades are sharp. Keep the furball whellchock clear of those babies, for his own good.

It never dawned on me to keep ice clear by just running it in the morning. I assumed that it would eventually ice up to a point that it wouldn't function. Now I'm rethinking that notion.

Furhead wheel chock Bruce. Don't worry about him the pirates have him. :p

Sunil – What was that story about a pot calling a kettle a freak, or something like that? :p

Bruce Condello -

We are in for a heat wave the next few days (50s) , so I imagine all the ice will be gone, temporarily.

I will be adjusting the circulator, experimenting with both timing and length of running time during the winter.

More later, as they say…….

Dwight, I think the saying "takes one to know one" has a certain pertinence here.

Ewest –

A Doctor said, “furball whellchock”

An Attorney said, “furhead wheel chock”

Either way, the pirates are locked behind the bars and under the braces until……

:rolleyes:

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but I'm not getting the picture???

Sunil – That is a quite logical, precise and relevant comment. Take care that your discernible event horizon does not fade into obscurity! :p

Sometimes you guys make me seem almost normal by comparison.

Theo Gallus - It depends what you mean by normal!

Dwight,

Never having experienced a Minnesota winter, do you think you'll reach a point where the circulator will need to run 24/7 to prevent ice freeze up?

Russ - Yes, I do expect that during a period of below zero nights and single digit days the circulator will be on 24/7.

It will be interesting to see how large an opening exists during those conditions!

Theo Gallus - It depends what you mean by normal!

The circulator battle against the ice begins!

The ten day forecast temperatures are: 27 degree average high temperature and 9 degree average low temperature.

I almost feel like camping down there just to witness it happen!

Dwight, are those seasonable temps?

According to the weather channel, much of the U.S. will have a major weather/temp change within the next 24-48 hours.

Good luck with the de-icer.

Russ - Those temperatures are below normal, thankfully! In Minnesota it seems like normal is abnormal and abnormal is normal.

I had the circulator set to run from 0600 to 0800 hours. Obviously, that was not enough to keep open water at 4 degrees. I took the first photo at around 0800 this morning and then set the circulator to run continuously as long as the temperature is below 32.5 degrees. 3 hours later I took the next two photos. As you can see there is an area of open water along with a lot of water on top of the ice. More later......

This information is extremely beneficial to me. Thank you, thank you.

These are photos taken around 1645 hours. A definite V shape has formed and the water on top of the ice has frozen. The current temperature is 15 degrees, going down to around 2 degrees overnight.

Keep in mind if you are ice fishing, that a system like this will create currents a couple of hundred feet away, so you may have unexpected weak spots in the ice a significant distance from the Kasco unit.

Bruce Condello - I am having a good time with this circulator ice management project.

This particular seasonal change was never my favorite and still isn’t, though it is a whole lot more interesting then it used to be!

I took some photos that I hoped would show those "thin ice" areas caused when the circulator is moving water under the ice.

A bright day and a lot of glare made them un-usable.

There were two obvious areas where you could see the ice "thinning". After the circulator opened the ice, those areas faded away.

Anyway, always take care when you are on the ice!

During summer use I had my 3/4 hp Kasco running 24/7 on my 1.3 acre pond. There were signs of circulation on the entire pond. I was stunned.

Photos @ 0745 hours this morning after a night of single digit temps with a low of 2 degrees.

It was 55 degrees here this afternoon. So I went out and did a pond check and some outdoor projects. A 55 degree day in December is a very encouraging. This is a photo of the circulated area looking to the west. Lately I have been running the circulator only at night and if the temperature is also below 30 degrees.

Wow Dwight, what a great picture! Is that your property in the background? 55 degress in December, in Southwestern Minn ?? I didn't think they made thermometers that registered that high in Minn.

Russ - Thanks, on the photo, sometimes I get lucky!

Our property ends at the top of the berm on the other side of the farthest rock pile.

When you live in Minnesota you learn that a very nice warm day in December is a day to get outside and enjoy. Tomorrow, who knows? :rolleyes:

Most of the ice on the pond is now at 11 inches.

30 feet behind the circulator the ice is 7 inches.

15 feet behind the circulator the ice is 5 inches.

Since the circulator only runs at night if the temperature low enough, a thin layer of ice generally surrounds it. When running, it only takes a few minutes for the ice to clear in a V-shape and then the open water spreads along the shore line.

Dwight, when you restart the circulator each morning, is it melting the ice in front of it, or is it just pushing water on top of the ice?

Sunil - It melts the ice.

If you scroll up a little ways, there are several photos that make it very clear that the ice is melted and there is open water.

Thanks Dwight, I saw that. After you mentioned the 11" thick ice, I wondered how much ice must build up overnight and then what the circulator could do starting fresh in the morning.

Sunil - The circulator only runs at night when the temp is below 30 degrees. During the day is is idle and that is when the ice forms around it.

I don't believe the ice ever gets over an inch or so thick during a very cold day.

OK, got it. Have you tried fishing in the open area yet?? Some yummy live bait??

Sunil - One nice warm day I was out there casting a 1/4oz spinnerbait up on to the ice, letting it drop straight down and then winding it back - oh so slow. Nothng happened.

Live bait may be the way to go. I will give it a try one of these days.

We had an overnight low of -21, yes that would be 21 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. That is our coldest temp in a couple years. Take that, inconvenient Al! :p

The circulator is still set to run only from 1800 hours in the evening to 0800 in the morning. These photos were taken shortly before 0800 this morning. It is doing a very nice job!

I don’t know if it is because I walked down there to take the photos, but I think the photos depict the cold pretty well. :rolleyes:

I know I was cold while taking photos with that combo of clear skies, ice, snow and pale, thin sunlight. Brrrr!

Theo Gallus - The sun does have some power. 3 hours later it a balmy -9!

With the 5-6” of snow on the pond, you can see the wide ranging effects of the circulator. I outlined the “soft ice” areas on the photos.

Ice is 12-13” thick away from the areas affected by the circulator. Within 20’ of the affected areas it dwindles to 4-5” inches. That was as closed as any holes were drilled, figuring a dip in that cold water would be ill-advised!

dwight, so after my first little experience with ice on the pond, i have a couple questions....

what is the thickest it gets on yer pond away from the ciculator (or in years past with no circulator)?

how long does over a foot of ice take to thaw in the spring.....seems like you'd have ice into June?

dave in el dorado ca – Ice generally gets to 15 or 16 inches. Some years it has been over 20 inches and some years only 12" or so.

Once the day temps are in the 40s and the night temperatures don't dip below freezing the ice slowly becomes water logged and doesn’t take long to disappear.

We have been ice free as early as the end of February; though it is usually late March and into April. A lot of wind speeds up the process considerably.

Now the test really begins...



very global warming.....

Ice is 10". Add more as week progresses to the weekend.

This is the first winter I've owned my pond. I know the ice should be 4 inches deep before walking or skating on it. How do I know when its safe to go on the ice with my drill to measure the depth of the ice. Do I just go out with a rope attached to my belt (and someone on shore) until I learn to tell by sight?

Test the shallow parts with your half of your weight first, then full weight, and after that, if it does holds up, then see how thick it is.

Schroeder - Go to a shallow area jump up and down a couple times. If you don't fall through then walk out furthur and drill some test holes. Very scientific!

If and when you go through ice in the shallows, don't panic. You're standing on the bottom and breathing air, right? The water you're in is warmer than you will be once you get out of the pond. I suggest trying to break the ice to make a path to shore, rather than trying to climb out - that was much easier for me.

Anyone else have good bad experience to share on this?

Theo Gallus - Good tips, though I usually wait until the pond has been frozen a week or two. Doing the test the day after it freezes over, is inviting damp boots! :p

Thanks to all for the good advice. I now have a plan of attack.

After last nights low temp of -15 degrees and today’s high of -5 degrees, the circulator open area has frozen over solid. The ten hour run time during the night isn’t enough under these temperature conditions.

Since both lows and highs are both forecast to be below zero for the next couple days, I will be putting the circulator on full time until it has recovered. As the cold snap fades, it will be returned back to 10 hours per day run time.

Brrrr!

The Badgers say CRANK THAT CIRCULATOR UP a notch.

Badgers know circulator settings, snakes and weather. This photo is 2.5 hours after I set the circulator for 24 hour running. I have revised the plan (again) and set the timer/temperature controller to run from 6PM until 8AM and then again from 11AM to 1:30PM, at total of 12.5 hours per day.

that is brutal , man!!

burgermeister - What do you mean?

I mean the weather. It's nice and toasty up here in St. John"s, N.L. Up here since last weekend. Not much below freezing, but windy and snow. Nothing like the upper midwest, northern central states area.

I called it a day outside this afternoon when it was 15 deg with 40 mph winds. I could stay warm, but visibility was lousy and I kept getting facefulls of blown snow.

burgermeister –
Theo Gallus –

Staying warm in the cold and even the cold and wet together is a matter of having the right foul weather gear. Wind added to the mixture is another story and that story is always bad news.

When we lived in North Dakota years ago there was a 6 week period where the temperature never went above -20 degrees during the day. Many of the nights were well into the high (low?) -30s. There was no wind chill factor back in those days, though the wind was always blowing and usually 20+ mph. It was just plain leather ripping cold.

I am basking in the glow of my LCD displays as the temp has fallen to -12 at 8PM….

......a 6 week period where the temperature never went above -20 degrees........"


I always wondered what ever happened to my old girlfriend. Guess she moved to North Dakota. :p

Russ - Hard to believe, but we and everyone else went about our business though somewhat slower than usual.

Your vehicle was either plugged in or running and you planned your work and trips to maximize your time inside a warm place.

It was truly brutal and sealed our plans to move to balmy southern Minnesota!

I heard that your old girlfriend is fat and happy tending bar at the Curling Club in Grandin, ND. Current temp -21, going to -28 tonight.

Man !!! - Dwight if her current temp. is that cold (-21 to -28) I hope Russ never made skin to skin contact. :p Did I parse those sentences correctly?

Eric,

Russ - Your "her fist to my skull" comment may indicate brain bruising issues that we don’t need exposed on this forum.

Perhaps a post on the meangirlhitme.com forum would be more appropriate. :p

Went ice fishing yesterday and the ice is 18-20 inches. The circulator is back to running just at night and keeps a small area open similar to the last photo above. We have had below zero temps at night now for several weeks and mostly single digits during the days. Everyone around here is ready for a thaw!

We have had around 10 inches of new snow so far today. Winds are 25-30mph with a high gust of 39. We are in a blizzard warning which extends until 6PM Friday.

This is frame captured from our pond camera. Yes it is day time and yes, it is a color camera!

The comma shaped darker area is open water where the circulator runs.

Uhgggghh !! Winter is a long time leaving. In the 70's here earlier , but with a high price -- Tornados , hail and rain.

ewest - I saw all the tornado damage and the deaths at the school and in that town further east from you.

A blizzard is nothing!

Weather was bad in middle Georgia also with 3-4 inches of rain and high winds. I suspect I will have evidence that the emergency spill way was used for overflow with tornados bouncing all around.

Frank

I walked down to the mighty Rock River to get some video of the huge ice chunks going under the bridge next to our land. I could hear and more alarmingly feel the vibration in my feet and legs when the larger ones smashed into the bridge.

Following that experience, I considered the 20” thick ice on the pond that could break apart in a spring high wind event and mangle the circulator in an instant.

I pulled the whole works up on shore until the ice is gone.

Here are a couple of photos:

Well where's the video from the river???

That particular video footage will be on the TV news @ 10PM.

As things are going, I may have even more impressive video tomorrow. Hopefully, it won't be taken from the roof of our house as we are floating down the river!

Sunil - I didn't get any video recorded today, but here are some photos: Flood

Yes, I saw it. Pooling water in the spring just makes me crazy.

I read through this old thread during a sleepless period last night. It was good to see the posts of those who are less exposed on the forum than they were in 2007.

Sunil was a rabble-rouser back then just like today. Some things never change.

Yeah, a lot of folks we don't hear from now.

Burgermeister, Russ, Schroeder...not to mention King Ding-A-Ling, himself, Theo.