Been awhile since I posted, but gearing up for a spring project and wanted to see if I could get some tips on setup. I have already found some great information in past threads. It looks like Jim Wetzel would be the ultimate contact on this topic, but he has not posted here in several years. Regardless, here is a summary of my project:
Goal: Produce RES/CNBG hybrid for stocking my own ponds
Setup: 275 gallon IBC tote/tank. Combo pond pump filter that has mechanical filter, bio filter, uv filter built in, advertised as 660 gph.
General game plan is to catch parent stock from my ponds, and stock 1 male CNBG with 1 Female RES. I actually caught some parents this weekend with my castnet but need to further verify sex. They are sitting in a temporary tank while I give the IBC tote time to stabilize. I should have several months for them to acclimate before breeding temps arrive. I know I am going to have a bazillion questions but will just post a few for now.
Can anyone confirm male BG and female RES is the right combination?
Should I have more than one female?
Will I need to be prepared to try to move eggs/larvae/fry or is parent rearing pretty safe in this setup?
I am hoping the uv filter will keep the water clear for observation of prespawn but should I plan on disabling UV to allow blooms for young feeding?
Is a recirculating pump/filter going to kill larvae/fry? Should I plan to switch to aeration only?
Will post pics of setup and parent stock as I get them.
I am no help to your questions but I will definitely be following your progress. The more pictures the better. Pictures of your setup would be awesome.
Glad there is some interest! I will post pics for sure...although I wish this forum didnt make it so difficult! Took me 20 min to remember how to hack dropbox url to make pics show up. ;-)
Since the better the body condition of the fish, the more eggs they will lay, and the more milt the males will have, are your RES feed trained? If not, how will you keep them fed while in the IBC Tote? Hatched BG larval fish typically swim up 3 days after hatching. At that point in time I'd yank the adults out of the tote. How will you feed the larval fish? I read a report where they studied larval BG and used a seine that had a 0.1mm mesh to capture them, how will you ensure that the larval BG don't end up in the filter?
I cannot confirm whether the RES are feed trained. They have certainly had access to feed their entire lives but hard to observe with RES in pond environment. That is one of the reasons for trying to keep water clear until spawn so that I can keep an eye on feeding/health. I think the male BG will quickly take pellets so if I have to satisfy him and then frop some live food down for the RES that will be ok. I am feeding a pellet that has some sinkers so hears hoping the RES will go for those. The more I think about it, will prob switch to aeration with sponge filter when spawning activity occurs. The pump will cycle the entire tank about 3 times per hour so that seems high risk for fry kill.
I need to research larval feeding. I have seen Brine shrimp mentioned but hoping I can find a commercial starter feed that will work.
Right now considering something similar to Jim Wetzel setup from a previous post about tank breeding. Black pan suspended from bottom about 1 ft with small pea gravel. Do you think nest site will be a factor for the female RES?
My original plan was to have several small breeding ponds set up by spring but it has been too wet for tractor work. In that environment I would have just let nature do its thing and be more hands off. Hopefully the tank will not introduce too many obstacles for success!
Keep in mind that the fry will require natural food for a few days (they won't eat fry food right off the bat). So, you don't want crystal clear water. Also don't need high water turnover rate. Using a small pond with natural water and some RES of one sex and CNBG of the other sex will work. Good luck and keep us posted on results.
Was able to get the parent fish moved over today, thanks to my little helper! I took pics of the 3 fish as well as their urogenital region. I am going to post the pics of each fish in a separate post and number them in case anyone wants to comment on them specifically. Here is the tank and the chosen ones hanging out while the water temps equalize.
If anyone has any thoughts on my RES sexing I am happy to hear the feedback.
Right now I am waiting on my pump/filter to arrive. I also noticed both fish were hiding in the darkest corner. The tote is semi-translucent and lets alot of light in. I have read that RES tend to be more light sensitive so I pinned some black plastic on one corner and covered half of the top with plywood.
Took a baseline water chemistry reading this evening: Air Temp: 65 Water Temp: 55 PH: 7.2ish Carbonate Hardness: 60-80 ppm Nitrate: 0 Nitrite: 0
On the topic of what to feed the fry, I am concerned about maintaining zooplankton levels for the first few weeks so I have been researching fry feeds. It looks like my particle size needs to be somewhere around 200 microns to start. I will probably have one or more of these on hand for supplemental feeding: 1. https://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/o...e-spheres/gp-100-200-micron-larval-diet/ 2. Spirulina Powder 3. Chicken egg yolk
Brine Shrimp Direct has some nice options, I am just not sure how cost effective it would be because its hard to estimate how much feed I am going to need.
You see how the feed size and amount changes as the fish change in size?
This resource would be outstanding but I cannot seem to find the link to the actual chart. Am I missing something? I tried going to the youtube video but it is in a language I cannot understand
Ok, I saw that image. The way the article read, I thought there was a diff chart for each fish species and was hoping to find bluegill on the list. Still helpful though, thanks!
I had a milestone this morning. I had dropped 2 redworms and several sinking pellets in the tank yesterday with zero interest. First thing this morning the pellets seemed to be missing but the redworms were still alive and well. A few hours later I peek in and the worms were MIA and the CNBG was nose down as if looking for food. I threw him another worm and he sucked it in before it hit the bottom! Zero evidence of the RES eating yet. Here is the video:
Just finished reading "Hybridization of 4 Sunfish Species". It does not bode well for RESxBG cross in natural settings. Granted, there are is evidence in newer publications and on this forum that it does occur. I guess I am not above manual intervention if nature does not appear to be cooperating.
In other news, I purchased a few lbs of aquamax fry powder on ebay yesterday. I also contacted Purina to see if they have any information on particle sizes as nothing is listed on their site.
In other news, I purchased a few lbs of aquamax fry powder on ebay yesterday. I also contacted Purina to see if they have any information on particle sizes as nothing is listed on their site.
Try Optimal fish food.
Optimal Starters come in a range of sizes to fit your needs. • Starter #0 is a powder designed for the first feeding of tiny fry. This line is useful for those who hatch their own fish. • Starter #1 is a crumble line for fish that are too big for a powder yet still under half an inch. • Starter #2 is a 1.5mm pellet and designed for fish in the 1-2″ range. • Starter #3 is a 2mm pellet and designed for fish in the 2-3″ ranges. • Starter #4 is a 2.5mm pellet and designed for fish in the 3-4” ranges.
Every species of fish has a slightly different mouth size and feeding challenges. The goal is to try to feed the largest pellet size your fish can eat.
For use in the first feeding of newly hatched fish. To minimize impacts on water quality, feed as much food in ten minutes as fish will consume. Feeding at the same time every day is suggested. For more feeding information and tips, visit optimalfishfood.com/feeding-tips.
One of the authors in the papers that your requested above is James Wetzel. He has two different 'handles' or registered accounts on the forum so maybe he will chime in.
Wow, I purchased some optimal a few years ago but didnt realize they had expanded their offerings. Will have to keep them in mind. I did get a response from Aquamax but it was just someone reiterating the same info available on their website. They list the starter 100 as .8mm and the size of the fry powder as "powder". Guess it hasn't been measured.
One of the authors in the papers that your requested above is James Wetzel. He has two different 'handles' or registered accounts on the forum so maybe he will chime in.
I think thats actually how I found the paper. I read several of his threads on here and went looking for more of his info online. I found a place that I can buy the paper online for $12 so I will probably just do that.
Maybe send Jim Wetzel a private message through the forum here. It will show up in his person email and I bet he'll zip the article over to you for nothing.
Too late, I already purchased it.😆 Unfortunately the study fed baby brine shrimp for the first week or so and then transitioned to the commercial diet, so does not help me with day 1 feeding. There was also no mention of brands of commercial feed, but nutrition analysis was provided for each food tested. Looks like the one that performed the best had 54% crude protein and almost 19% lipids. There was some reference to particle size but, again, not really relevant for day 1.
This article has the most detail of bluegill fry zooplankton preference and would seem to suggest a particle size of 100-200 micron would be best. I bet the aquamax is not going to come close to being that small, but I am considering buying a lab sieve to filter down to that size(and do more grinding if needed).
Too late, I already purchased it.😆 Unfortunately the study fed baby brine shrimp for the first week or so and then transitioned to the commercial diet, so does not help me with day 1 feeding. There was also no mention of brands of commercial feed, but nutrition analysis was provided for each food tested. Looks like the one that performed the best had 54% crude protein and almost 19% lipids. There was some reference to particle size but, again, not really relevant for day 1.
This article has the most detail of bluegill fry zooplankton preference and would seem to suggest a particle size of 100-200 micron would be best. I bet the aquamax is not going to come close to being that small, but I am considering buying a lab sieve to filter down to that size(and do more grinding if needed).
IF you have a way to grind it (a burr coffee grinder will be best, a coffee grinder that "chops" it will create heat) I can send you a pound or two of this if you reimburse me for the shipping. I'll send it flat rate USPS.
55% Protein, 15% Fat.
To measure how fine you grind it, I think you can get screen material or sieves of some very fine screen material. 0.0017" is the finest that I see, but it isn't cheap. https://www.mcmaster.com/sieve-separators/
Optimal Starter #0 is 48% Protein / 18% Lipid
The most important phase in growing a trophy fish is in the hatchery, nursery, and juvenile stages. Growth lost early in life will never be recaptured. When fish are very young, they grow at incredible rates gaining 15% of their body weight every day. As they age, this growth rate per day slowly decreases, so gains in early life yield exponential growth rates up until the fortunate soul find the trophy fighting on the end of a line.
The importance of highly digestible, highly attractive, and highly nutritious diets cannot be overemphasized. Starter feeds are formulated to deliver the ultimate in digestible protein, balanced amino acid levels, key antioxidants, fortified micronutrient levels, and innovative palatability enhancers for finicky eaters. By concentrating on these essential building blocks of growth and health, fish are given a superior foundation on their quest to be the next trophy. Optimal starter feeds incorporate over a decade of dedicated research, and we could not be happier with the results, and we are confident you will too.
Optimal Starters come in a range of sizes to fit your needs. • Starter #0 is a powder designed for the first feeding of tiny fry. This line is useful for those who hatch their own fish. • Starter #1 is a crumble line for fish that are too big for a powder yet still under half an inch.
The smallest portion that you can buy is a 10# bucket.
I may take you up on that. My aquamax powder is due to be delivered any day now. Let me check it out and see what it looks like. I am considering buying a grain mill attachment for the kitchenaid. I have a standalone meat grinder but I think the smallest plate on that would only get me down to corn meal size. A few seasons ago I ground about 1 cup of pellets down to a powdery crumble using the Ninja chopper. It did ok but it has two chopping blades that I think will dull pretty quickly with repeated use.
Quick update: We had a cold snap and I am seeing that the downside of an outdoor tank is rapid temperature fluctuations. I don't think its causing any harm to the fish, but the water temp dropped to around 48 overnight lastnight. The fish activity is way down in terms of eating and movement in general. I have seen the bluegill eat several times and before the temp dropped he was eating both pellets and worms. I still have not witnessed the RES eating anything but she looks plump so I suspect she is being shy and scavenging after I leave.
The pump/filter setup is working really well but its not the ideal design for this tank. The filter surface sits off the bottom about 4 inches so it does not trap any sediments. I tried to set up the tank with a slight slope toward the bottom drain in hopes the sediments would end up there and be sucked out during water changes. That didn't really work very well with the first attempt, so next time I 'm going to try brushing it over in that area before I open the valve. Worst case I guess I will be using a siphon vacuum.
Fast water temp changes have been noted as a cause for many fish health and death issues in publications. The fast temp changes cause lipid regulation issues which cause issues at the cellular level. That is one reason many pond meisters put them inside or at least where temp can be somewhat controlled.
The Ninja Chopper might create heat when chopping up to the fine powder, it does when using it to "grind" coffee. Look into a coffee burr. You can grind pretty fine with it and it won't create heat. The Chopper type coffee grinders won't chop uniformly, which the coffee burrs will.
Honestly, if you don't have the equipment to grind to a consistent, correct size, you will be better off just buying the correct sized feed. You will need to screen the fish feed if you make it yourself after grinding it to ensure that you are getting the feed the correct size for the newly hatched fish.
The aquamax fry powder came in today.. This is a picture for reference. The smallest mark on the ruler is 1/64 inch, or approx 400 microns. Its hard to see in the picture but there is lots of powder sized particles that I estimate are 200 microns or smaller.
I think it will work well, but I may try to get an 80 mesh sieve to remove the particles larger than 200 microns. I think the feed would work just the way it is but no since in letting the larger particles go uneaten the first few weeks when they will be needed as they grow.
Just realizing I have not posted any updates over the last week so where do I start?
I got impatient with the female RES activity so decided to try to catch a few smaller "dither" fish to try to make the larger ones more comfortable. In the process I ended up catching two more mature RES that I believe are female. So I have the male BG breeder, 3 potential female RES breeders, and 3 small bluegill in the 2-4" range. My thought process is that I can observe the 3 females to increase odds of finding one that is more content with tank life as I have still not witnessed the original female RES eating anything. The small fish were eating bits of worm and fish food 2 hours after stocking.
The water temp has been marginal for activity up until the last few days. Over the past weekend we had another round of freezing overnight temps which had the water temp down to 48-50. I added a 300 watt aquarium heater to try to moderate the temperature swings. Its way undersized for an uninsulated 275 gallon tank but seemed to keep temps above 50 the second night of freezing air temps.
During thetemp drop, activity of all fish dropped significantly. Even the male BG was just hanging out on the bottom not taking red worms. I left Monday for a two day trip to Cherokee NC. During that time, I intentionally stopped feeding and at the same time we had daytime temps approaching 80. I was hoping to trigger a feeding g frenzy when I returned and it worked. The male BG ate at least 4 whole red worms and 2 meal worms. At one point he came within 6" of the surface to grab one, so I think he will eventually take floating pellets. After he and the small fish were filled up, a worm made it to the bottom and the smallest of the 3 res breeders darted over and inhaled it! A few minutes later it ate another. I still did not witness the two larger RES eating, but they are showing signs of being more comfortable by swimming around more freely and being slightly territorial. They do this neat thing where they flare out their gills as they peck at the invader. One thing I have noticed is the smallest of the 3(the one that ate)seems to have a bolder body coloration. The gill flap colors are quite dull, but it makes me concerned that it may be a male. Water temps are now in the upper 60's. None of the fish looked terribly egg laden when I stocked them but I have to remind myself the warm spell is way early.
Lastly, my seive arrived. It's supposed to be 80 mesh(.18 mm). I got 2 of them for $16 on Amazon. I have not tested them yet but the mesh looks super fine. 80 Mesh Seive
Ok, I broke out the Seive and tested the Aquamax fry powder. So far I have sifted 188 grams with 90 grams being smaller than 80 mesh. So 48-50% below 200 microns. Something that is interesting is the larger material is noticably darker. Hopefully I am not affecting nutrient balance too much with the sifting.
Just a heads up. The biggest predator of BG and or RES fry/eggs is other BG or RES. Those small fish you added may need to be removed - keep an eye out for them.
Just a heads up. The biggest predator of BG and or RES fry/eggs is other BG or RES. Those small fish you added may need to be removed - keep an eye out for them.
Oh yea, goal is to have only the breeder pair by mid march. Just wanted to see if they sped up the acclimation process for larger fish which they seem to be doing. It's also kind of nice to have a clean up crew for feed leftovers.
Time for another update. A lot has changed. I had the largest of the small dither fish die inexplicably last week. Went out one morning and he was laying on the bottom. When I scooped him with the net he fluttered a bit. He was alive but almost seemed paralyzed. I through him back in and came back 2 or 3 hours later.....still alive but motionless on the bottom. I pulled him off out again and inspected him. No signs of illness or stress. The night before they had all eaten a bunch of red worms and then there was a 10 degree water temp drop overnight. But none of the other fish acted stressed at all, so it's a real mystery. The water tested fine but I decided to reduce the fish load. All the mature fish were eating so the small fish had served their purpose. I removed them and one of the larger female RES. I am doing one 15-20% water change per week.
Feeding has gone pretty well. The male bluegill is a little piggie and makes feeding the RES difficult. He will eat anything I throw in there. I have tried to switch to Aquamax pellets because the live foods are messy and costly. The RES have eaten the pellets but it's hit or miss. They much prefer meal worms. The larger RES has even taken crickets from the surface.
I made some setup changes. As you can see in the video above, there is now a spawning pan with pea gravel. No one has shown any interest in it yet. Yesterday I got worried about the RES as the Male CNBG was being very territorial....to the point that the smaller RES was at the surface with some fins sticking out of the water. If either of them got close to the bottom the CNBG would chase them. Sooo, I decided to Intervene. I built a divider with some plastic mesh. The male gets the side with spawning pan to himself. My thinking is that the RES are not gravid yet, although I see some growth in their bellies. I also think feeding will be easier and allow me to hopefully feed train the RES. Once I confirm female/gravid status I will remove one RES. I suspect the larger RES will be the keeper. She is a better eater and seems to stand her ground a little more with the BG.
I had a break through with the RES yesterday. I was still struggling to get them to consistently eat pellet feed. Worms, meal worms, crickets were no problem....but only the sporadic Aquamax pellet. As an experiment, I softened a few pellets and rolled them into meal worm shape, then let them air dry. I only had a few but the large RES inhaled them as soon as they started sinking. I guess the old fishing wisdom about matching the hatch is accurate! So I went about trying to find a way to efficiently making more "worm pellets". Now don't laugh at me, but my daughter's playdough extruder was just the ticket! . I extruder 3 plates worth and then oven dried them at 200 degrees for about 1 hour. I am hoping they will allow a transition to normal pellets soon. They usually stay on the surface for about 10 seconds and then start a slow wobbly sink. The larger RES has already taken a few from the surface and she ate 6 or 8 pellets in a row this morning.
One additional benefit of the extruder is if I need pellets in heart or star shapes, no problem!
If you look at the Optimal Fish Food Pellets, that's what they look like - worms/grubs of different lengths.
It makes sense and I do remember the optimal bluegill I bought years ago being more pill shaped. It's interesting having the tank setup to observe feedings. Even the male BG which is an aggressive eater seems to struggle with the largest size pellet in the Aquamax MVP. They fit into his mouth but he spits them out and back in several times, I assume until they are soft enough or small enough to swallow.
Clever idea, Jason! But if I used the oven to dry fish food, there would be a bear market in the Domestic Tranquillity Index.
Hahaha! Between her and my 3 girls I am not sure how I am still allowed in the house. I did attempt to clean up before she got home but got the, "why does the house smell like dead fish" question. 😂
The next few days could prove to be interesting as the male bluegill has begun the most aggressive nest building that I have seen. I should probably start a recap of what has happened since my last post.
The challenge of feeding has become a distant memory. The "worm pellets" I made were effective for transitioning the redear to pellet feed. All 3 now readily eat pellets from the surface. In fact, the smaller redear will hit pellets so aggressively that 2/3 of her body comes out of the water!
I don't remember if I mentioned it before, but I decided to put a divider in the tank to separate the bluegill from the redear. He was harassing them to the point of pectoral fins getting ragged so I decided to give them a break. I removed the divider a week or two ago and at the same time I removed the larger RES. I did this because the smaller one is visibly bloated with eggs and the larger one is not. I did not want to risk having a male RES around for the spawn.
So now I have a hopeful pair. The RES is still being harassed by the male BG to the point of hiding behind objects in the tank, so I am not sure if they consider themselves a pair or not.🤣.
I will try to get some pics of the nesting tomorrow. At some point I guess I will have to decide if manual intervention is needed(egg/sperm stripping). And if it comes to that, I will be flying blind as I have not found a definitive guide on that process!
Even if you set up everything correctly, love can be fickle!
If it doesn't work this year, then I hope you try again next year utilizing your increased knowledge base. Do you have space/money to try with a few more pairings? That may give you a greater chance for success.
P.S. I have noticed of few of the Pond Boss members have the arcane powers to perform effective rain dances. Maybe you can get some of those same people to brew you up a fishy love potion!
Rod, I expect they might have had some liquid refreshment prior to the dance.
Probably true.
Perhaps we should set up a barter system on Pond Boss?
People with dangerously low ponds can send an effective "PB rain dancer" a bottle of their favorite bourbon (or similar liquid refreshment) in exchange for a couple of rain storms!
Glad to see my thread getting some attention, even if it's some sort of strange bunny trail. 🤣
In addition to being a "pond" forum, Pond Boss is also a "friends" forum!
Some of the discussions do go down the bunny trail as people use the posts as a friendly conversation. Sorry for the diversion - because I am one of the worst offenders!
OTOH, it does keep people reading your post and checking for updates on the progress of your experiment!
Good luck with your nest-building BG. I hope THAT results in a good future update.
As you guys may have guessed, the cross attempt appears to have been a failure. The RES is still super fat but I am now starting to question if it is a SHE. It is definitely way more aggressive with eating than the bluegill so I suspect it's just a belly full of food. I even pulled "her" out a few times over the last 3 or 4 weeks to see if I could express any eggs with no luck. I still have them together in the tank but not sure what the future will be for them.
I did get 2 additional 250 gal tanks with the hope of needing room for hybrid fry. Last week I caught about 15 fingerling BG for one of the tanks. My summer project will be to see how quickly I can grow out a bruiser BG in a tank setup. I think I will start another thread for that project.
I'm not contributing much of anything, but RES are much more aggressive and may require 1) A larger spawning area. 2) A more attractive CNBG to mate with. 3) Turbid/Cloudy water. (kind of like a girl/guy in a bar after a few drinks...and do it under a full moon!)
As you guys may have guessed, the cross attempt appears to have been a failure. The RES is still super fat but I am now starting to question if it is a SHE.
It doesn't matter how green the grass is, a rancher that starts with two cows is NOT going to end up with a huge herd of cattle!
OTOH, you have now advanced your aquaculture skills! That should allow you to successfully experiment (or raise) more fish in your available space.
Yes, I learned that 300 gallon totes that had mulch dye in them are NOT worth the trouble no matter how cheap they are!😂 It is unfortunate that you only get a single shot at RES spawn each year, or at least that is my understanding.
The RES is probably female. If you could post a pic of the vent area a better determination could be made. Were it male, chances are that you would have gotten some milt from your extrusion attempt.
As I understand it, RES girls dress kind of scantily and find themselves in places they should never have been. The chances are that the two will hookup if only they both would be ready when she is. You can get them both in the right state of body and mind with luteinizing hormone so that they mate on your schedule (not theirs). Usually a male is given one dose while the female two where the timing is specified. This can encourage them to mate naturally or allow you to express gametes for an artificial spawn. There are multiple sources online that describe the dosage and methods. I think you could obtain it from a vet that also services agriculture. Fish given the hormone should not be eaten for a minimum of 6 months and the offspring should be unaffected. As with all things of this nature, be careful with syringes and follow best practices for disposal of the waste and or unused medication.
A pond setting with a few pairs would probably also work better than the tanks but since you are using a laboratory setup it might help to use a lab method to control the timing of the mating.
HCG is the most common hormone given. It forces sexual maturity (same as Ovaprim) but doesn't force them to breed. HCG has a neuro-blocker that that fools the pituitary, Ovaprim does not. HCG requires a script to get, most VETS will want to see/be a part of the process, they won't just hand it out but still doesn't make them breed, only mature. There's so much more to this and if you want to fertilize eggs there is a way but most eggs are ruined and cannot be fertilized at extraction without first understanding what opens pores in egg and activates sperm once in contact with the egg-it's a window of about 15 seconds total that both are open and active.
Thanks for the response! The mention of luteinizing hormone are just the keywords I needed to find other research papers on the topic. My wife spent most of her career in the vet field so I may be able to procure hormones if I can come up with a game plan to use them. I think I posted vent area pics from late winter earlier in this thread, but I will try to get some current pictures.
I have read about using a capillary tube to prove for eggs but reluctant to get too invasive and/or cause damage if there is still a chance for spawn.
Regardless of this seasons outcome, will probably keep this pair around as they have learned to co-exist and are pretty well feed trained.
HCG is the most common hormone given. It forces sexual maturity (same as Ovaprim) but doesn't force them to breed. HCG has a neuro-blocker that that fools the pituitary, Ovaprim does not. HCG requires a script to get, most VETS will want to see/be a part of the process, they won't just hand it out but still doesn't make them breed, only mature. There's so much more to this and if you want to fertilize eggs there is a way but most eggs are ruined and cannot be fertilized at extraction without first understanding what opens pores in egg and activates sperm once in contact with the egg-it's a window of about 15 seconds total that both are open and active.
Thanks for the additional info. You guys just opened up a whole new potential can of research worms for me to investigate!🤣 I really wanted to dig some isolation/breeding ponds to let nature do all the work, but the combination of a wet spring and other large projects has delayed that effort. The tank expirement has been fun and has inspired some other projects.
I am going to say that I am 99% certain that the RES is a female. I base that on the urogenital pore and overall appearance ... so I think you did good in selecting a female for your project. Hope you find success this year and get a crop of hybrid little ones. I fish a pond where 9" lepomis are fairly uncommon. When I catch one that size it is usually a BG-RES hybrid.
I wasn't aware that obtaining the meds would be that troublesome. You can circumvent all that by making your own meds. The procedure involves the collection of pituitary glands of gravid common carp (both males and females work). Ideally they are just about to pop when you kill the fish and collect the pituitary gland. 1 to 3 would probably be more than you need annually for a few lepomis injections.
It's not as hard as it sounds as this was the pioneering procedure. Some culturists prefer it over synthetics. If you are interested in going down the rabbit hole ...follow this link.. You may want to preserve that page in print or pdf as the site is no longer maintained (don't know how long it will be available by browser). Pay attention to the prep instructions for making a batch of meds that will keep in the frig for a few weeks. The hormones in the glands are water soluble and this is how they are extracted from ground pituitary into saline.
Here's what ya need. simple, ready to go, .5ml per pound per injection on males, .25ml per pound on females. Simple, done. This again, does not make fish spawn, only makes eggs and sperm mature at a faster rate. I'd happily talk you through this if you want to give me a call, I've done thousands of fish of different species with this and can save you a ton of head and heart ache. Send me a PM and I'll share my number and everything you need to do this.
. I fish a pond where 9" lepomis are fairly uncommon. When I catch one that size it is usually a BG-RES hybrid.
I actually have a larger one in another tank. I thought it was a "she" also but never saw signs of eggs so I went with the smaller one that was clearly gravid.
Here's what ya need. simple, ready to go, .5ml per pound per injection on males, .25ml per pound on females. Simple, done. This again, does not make fish spawn, only makes eggs and sperm mature at a faster rate. I'd happily talk you through this if you want to give me a call, I've done thousands of fish of different species with this and can save you a ton of head and heart ache. Send me a PM and I'll share my number and everything you need to do this.
. If you are interested in going down the rabbit hole ...follow this link..
I just went down the rabbit hole!😝. Very interesting read but I do not have immediate access to carp. I wonder if I could find a local bow fisherman to donate a test subject? It's the predominant target in this area.
. If you are interested in going down the rabbit hole ...follow this link..
I just went down the rabbit hole!😝. Very interesting read but I do not have immediate access to carp. I wonder if I could find a local bow fisherman to donate a test subject? It's the predominant target in this area.
That probably wouldn't be ideal. It is important to collect the pituitary shortly after death and refrigerate in absolute alcohol or acetone to arrest any decline of hormone potency. Common Carp pituitaries are proven to work across many species and are available year round in tropical areas. In principal, however, you could collect pituitary from the recipient species or other more closely related species. For example, you could collect pituitary from LMB so long as the donor is gravid and is in an advanced stage or has just spent gametes. Many species have been used successfully but unlike the common carp it is substantially more difficult to obtain pituitary in the optimum state of hormonal potency. Both the pituitary and HCG contain Gonadotropic hormone but HCG is a human hormone while those in the carp pituitary is of course of fish hormone. Both are effective because they are very similar chemically.
All that said, since with Snipe's help you are not going to have to walk uphill ... both ways ... in the snow ... I would take him up on the offer. I just wanted to point out that vets with sticks up their ... or wanting to charge you to be there ... regulation/permits/ect are no deterrent if you are determined to do it. It's like Rusty's epitaph, "Don't tell me I can't do something, just sit down and watch me do it".
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. I extruder 3 plates worth and then oven dried them at 200 degrees for about 1 hour. I am hoping they will allow a transition to normal pellets soon. They usually stay on the surface for about 10 seconds and then start a slow wobbly sink. The larger RES has already taken a few from the surface and she ate 6 or 8 pellets in a row this morning.
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