Pond Boss
Posted By: Jackinthabox Realistically how clear? - 03/15/21 01:18 AM
New pond owner getting ready to clean my pond up for the summer. Last year it was pretty nasty and looked like a putting green. I am making an aerator as well as treating with cutrine and diquat. The water seems somewhat nice and clear now that nothing is growing in it but let say I do everything right and get rid of all the nasty algae and vegetation. Realistically how clear can the water get? Is it possible to see the bottom in the center which is 10 ft deep? I would love a clear pond to swim in and stock.
Posted By: Pat Williamson Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/15/21 02:21 AM
I think really clear ponds aren’t really good for fish production.... maybe a pro will chime in.... what are your goals for your pond?
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/15/21 02:38 AM
Jack,

It sounds like your main goal may be a "natural swimming pool". I think they are much more common in Europe, but there are certainly people in the U.S. building them.

I included a link to show you the concept.

https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/natural-swimming-pool-zmaz02aszgoe

You design your pool/pond to constantly circulate water through significant plant zones that work as natural filters.

If you like that idea, you should be able to find quite a bit of literature on how to achieve your goals.

I do not know of an expert on Pond Boss in that particular field. However, there are a lot of people in this forum with an exceptional range of expertise and talents.

Good luck on your project,
Rod
Posted By: Snipe Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/15/21 03:56 AM
Wiping plants and nutrients out to the extent it's got 10' vis is somewhat the opposite side of the spectrum of productive fishery water.
Posted By: Jackinthabox Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/15/21 09:21 AM
Ok yeah I’m not really going for water that clear then. I’d rather have a nice environment for fish and wild life. Just didn’t know what to expect after cleaning everything up.
Posted By: Journeyman Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/15/21 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by Jackinthabox
Ok yeah I’m not really going for water that clear then. I’d rather have a nice environment for fish and wild life. Just didn’t know what to expect after cleaning everything up.

The answer on what to expect is, as always, it depends.
But here's my guess.
That fact that you have a weed and algae problem, means you have an abundance of nutrients.
If you kill off weeds and algae without getting rid of the nutrients, well... mother-nature is only so patient. It'll be back. And worse.
The clear water you enjoyed was a result of the weeds were doing the work of grabbing all the little particles of decomposing organic matter. That will not be the case when the weeds are gone. The algae will eventually want to take up the job when you are not looking, or run out of money for chemicals.

Here's my advice.
Invest in a good Aeration system to help the breakdown process on the abundance of nutrients, and consider adding some Beneficial-bacteria to make sure it outcompetes your pending algae explosion.
Posted By: FishinRod Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/15/21 03:16 PM
Could he throw in a few tilapia?

Are they allowed in Maryland?
Posted By: Jackinthabox Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/15/21 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by Journeyman
Originally Posted by Jackinthabox
Ok yeah I’m not really going for water that clear then. I’d rather have a nice environment for fish and wild life. Just didn’t know what to expect after cleaning everything up.

The answer on what to expect is, as always, it depends.
But here's my guess.
That fact that you have a weed and algae problem, means you have an abundance of nutrients.
If you kill off weeds and algae without getting rid of the nutrients, well... mother-nature is only so patient. It'll be back. And worse.
The clear water you enjoyed was a result of the weeds were doing the work of grabbing all the little particles of decomposing organic matter. That will not be the case when the weeds are gone. The algae will eventually want to take up the job when you are not looking, or run out of money for chemicals.

Here's my advice.
Invest in a good Aeration system to help the breakdown process on the abundance of nutrients, and consider adding some Beneficial-bacteria to make sure it outcompetes your pending algae explosion.


I just bought a blue diamond pump I’m going to rig up to aerate it. I know it probably won’t be as nice as some of the expensive ones but figured I’d try it first
Posted By: Quarter Acre Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/15/21 07:01 PM
How big is your pond? And, what pump did you buy? Do you have a pump curve that you could share?
Posted By: Jackinthabox Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/16/21 01:39 AM
Originally Posted by Quarter Acre
How big is your pond? And, what pump did you buy? Do you have a pump curve that you could share?

About 3/4 acre. Maybe slightly smaller. 12 ft deep at most, probably 8 ft average. I bought the blue diamond 120. What’s a pump curve?
Posted By: Quarter Acre Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/16/21 01:51 PM
This is the pump curve for the Blue Diamond ET120 ( I assumed the ET model)...

[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

I have added the pressure equivalents in psi in Red at the bottom and made red circles on the flow axis that correspond on the left. The maximum depth that this pump would run a single diffuser is about 8 foot deep. This calculation in based on the required 0.433 psi per foot of depth of the diffuser and assumes about 1 psi of line losses combined with the pressure required to operate the diffuser. Find the "1 CFM" mark on the left and follow the line across to the right until it hits the curve for the ET120, then drop straight down and you will find the pressure at which the pump will be operating...4.35 psi

The calculation: 4.35 psi (taken from the curve at 1 CFM of air flow) minus 1 psi for line losses... all divided by 0.433 psi per foot water depth = 7.7 feet.

This concludes that this pump will run a single diffuser at 8 foot deep and supply 1 cfm of air to it. If you add an additional diffuser at 8 foot deep, the CFM (airflow) will be reduced by half. Most commercial diffusers like 1 to 2 CFM to operate well. You would not be gaining much water movement, if any, but you would be spreading the water movement out across the pond given that you positioned them far apart. I would not recommend this approach. We need to run the numbers to see if a single diffuser can effectively turn the pond over. Give us some basic dimensions, & basic shape of the pond, then we can estimate the number of gallons in the pond. This will help determine if a single diffuser can turn your pond over effectively. Rule of thumb is at least once a day.

Attached File
ET120 Curve.JPG  (402 downloads)
Posted By: Journeyman Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/16/21 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by Jackinthabox
Originally Posted by Quarter Acre
How big is your pond? And, what pump did you buy? Do you have a pump curve that you could share?

About 3/4 acre. Maybe slightly smaller. 12 ft deep at most, probably 8 ft average. I bought the blue diamond 120. What’s a pump curve?

QA is right, your pump is barely up to the job. Since it's brand new, you might consider returning it.

You want 2 diffusers minimum for your pond, for your pump to work, they will need to be in shallower water than you expect. This is the time to make that call.
Posted By: Jackinthabox Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/16/21 04:16 PM
Wow thanks for that info. Very interesting. I’ll try to attach a pic of pond shape. I’m getting .69 acres. Also I measured several spots yesterday and at most was at 12 ft deep but on average 8-10 ft. I may also be running geothermal into deep part depending on these prices I get back from company later this week

Attached File
Posted By: Jackinthabox Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/16/21 04:16 PM
Looks like the photo didn’t load or something, the pond is fairly round
Posted By: Quarter Acre Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/16/21 05:45 PM
A 0.69 surface acre round pond that averages 9 foot deep will have 2,031,310 gallons of water in it. Using Vertex's Lift Rate Chart...

[Linked Image]

..you can see that a single diffuser (XL1) at 8 foot deep will move 1,250 GPM, or (x 60 minutes in an hour to get) 75,000 GPH, or )x 24 hours in a day to get) 1,800,000 Gallons per Day. That is shy of the rule of thumb by 10%. The above chart is based on 1 CFM through the diffuser.

Some folks will try to design their aeration system to turn the pond volume more than once a day, maybe 2 or 3 times. This would allow the system to be put on a timer thus reducing the run time per day, but still getting at least a full turn over per day. It adds some flexibility at the cost of a larger pump or multiple pumps.



With your deepest diffuser at the 8 feet we have been discussing, the pump pressure would equate to 4 psi (thereabouts) and from the above chart the pump would be pushing 3 CFM. That's enough for 2 or 3 diffusers. This would double or triple (respectively) the amount of water movement. That's key.


Keep in mind that once you add more than 1 diffuser, some control valves would be advised so that you can adjust air flows which effects the bubble boil sizes. Without the valves and with diffusers at different depths...the bubble boils will be larger at the more shallow diffusers. The valves at the more shallow diffusers could be closed off some to force the air to the deeper one. Once, again...more flexibility!

EDIT: There is a fair amount of design work that can go into an aeration system. It is very important to use the appropriate sized air lines and to not restrict air flow with improperly sized valves and fittings. A topic for discussion later on in the thread. Lunch break is over.
Posted By: Zek Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/16/21 07:23 PM
If you are considering a HiBlow, do a search. I found a HiBlow HP 120LL for under $80.00 shipped at **.

Needed to replace the air pump on my koi pond, so will try it out.
Posted By: Journeyman Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/16/21 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by Zek
If you are considering a HiBlow, do a search. I found a HiBlow HP 120LL for under $80.00 shipped at Aihskc.

Needed to replace the air pump on my koi pond, so will try it out.

You must be referring to the rebuild kit at that price
Posted By: Quarter Acre Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/16/21 09:07 PM
If you google "Aihskc", most of the first page of hits are questions whether it's a scam or not....looks shady!
Posted By: Jackinthabox Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/16/21 10:26 PM
Yeah I see it on that site for like 75 bucks. I got a brand new looking “repaired” blue diamond 120 which I assume is similar to the hiblow 120. So you’re recommending running 2 aerators off of that? I have a 12” diffuser on the way now but I suppose I can order another. Wanted to get around the high cost of weighted tubing so I was just going to weigh down some regular tubing. Thanks for the help by the way. I’m not knowledgeable when it comes to ponds but would like to do what’s best I’m order to achieve the best results.
Posted By: Jackinthabox Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/17/21 01:26 AM
Originally Posted by Zek
If you are considering a HiBlow, do a search. I found a HiBlow HP 120LL for under $80.00 shipped at Aihskc.

Needed to replace the air pump on my koi pond, so will try it out.

Hopefully you haven’t paid them yet but apparently it’s a scam site. Was looking into it.
Posted By: esshup Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/17/21 04:53 AM
Originally Posted by Jackinthabox
Yeah I see it on that site for like 75 bucks. I got a brand new looking “repaired” blue diamond 120 which I assume is similar to the hiblow 120. So you’re recommending running 2 aerators off of that? I have a 12” diffuser on the way now but I suppose I can order another. Wanted to get around the high cost of weighted tubing so I was just going to weigh down some regular tubing. Thanks for the help by the way. I’m not knowledgeable when it comes to ponds but would like to do what’s best I’m order to achieve the best results.


I am of the mindset of "buy once, cry once". Long time ago I did what you are saying you will do. I ended up throwing that home weighted tubing out after getting it caught during fishing numerous times, having the ties break and the tubing float up in areas, etc., etc., and went with the weighted tubing. So, technically the weighted tubing cost me more because I threw $$ away trying to go the cheaper route.

You will want to run 2 diffusers in the pond, maybe not both during the summer, (maybe both during the summer depending on the GPH brought to the surface of the pond), but one in the deepest part and one shallower (3' depth) to keep a portion of the ice/snow off of the pond in the winter. It is a royal PITA to drag one around from shallow to deep every year when the water temps are cold.
Posted By: Jackinthabox Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/17/21 09:56 AM
So I should run it through winter as well? I was under impression that most stop running it through winter. But I guess that shows how much I know 😅
Posted By: esshup Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/18/21 03:26 AM
Read and learn grasshopper!!! LOL
Posted By: Jackinthabox Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/18/21 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by esshup
Read and learn grasshopper!!! LOL

Is there a good place to get a crash course on the ins and outs of aeration? Besides maybe the aeration category of the forums that is.
Posted By: esshup Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/18/21 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by Jackinthabox
Originally Posted by esshup
Read and learn grasshopper!!! LOL

Is there a good place to get a crash course on the ins and outs of aeration? Besides maybe the aeration category of the forums that is.

The archives here on Pond Boss. You can do a Google search such as "winter aeration Pond Boss". Also look in the list of previously published Pond Boss Magazines, a number of them had winter aeration articles.
Posted By: Quarter Acre Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/18/21 04:59 PM
The best way I have found to search the forum for info is by typing my search words into google followed by...

"site: forums.pondboss.com"

It would look like this for wintertime aeration (without the quotation marks)...

"winter aeration site: forums.pondboss.com"

This yields all the threads in PondBoss with the words winter and/or aeration in them. Enjoy the reading, there's a lot there.

This works for all websites too. Just replace the "forums.pondboss.com" with the website you wish to search in.
Posted By: Steve_ Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/18/21 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by Quarter Acre
The best way I have found to search the forum for info is by typing my search words into google followed by...

"site: forums.pondboss.com"

It would look like this for wintertime aeration (without the quotation marks)...

"winter aeration site: forums.pondboss.com"

This yields all the threads in PondBoss with the words winter and/or aeration in them. Enjoy the reading, there's a lot there.

This works for all websites too. Just replace the "forums.pondboss.com" with the website you wish to search in.

You've found out the trick!
Posted By: Jackinthabox Re: Realistically how clear? - 03/19/21 10:25 PM
Wow cool. Thanks
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