I had a feeling it was coming because of all the excess plant life in the pond. But I can't say it was the only reason I found 16 HSB dead and floating over the past two days. Most were the larger HSB in the pond with some going up to 7 or 8 lbs. So here is what I think happened. First off about 70% of the pond has vegetation in it which I have been told will lower DO at night. I increased the aeration run time from 3 hrs to 4.5 hrs running it only during night and early morning and we had 3 days of heavy rains with most every morning till noon where it was cloudy. Looking back I wished I had not run the aeration at all and almost did not run it because of all the vegetation. I ran it with a very slow start up and the fish died when I increased the run times. The system had run for a week @ 3 hrs per night but when I increased run time to 4.5 hrs the fish died. I think it was a combination of low DO due to plants but when adding the diffusers run times to the Pond it brought up dead water reducing the DO even more and it also increased the water temps. One thing I noticed this summer is the water temps were much cooler than other summers due to shading from the plants. So. Plants, aeration and water temperature along several cloudy days killed of the fish. I have only found one dead lmb about two weeks ago, it was in the 4lb range. No CNBG or RES have been seen dead and or floating. This morning the fish were actively feeding. Highflyer and I had a conversation a few weeks back about the numbers of HSB in the pond. He thought I had too many per acre and I can't rule this out either. I continue to run the diffusers @ 4.5 hrs but no plans on increasing run times.

I would suggest that anyone who has Bushy Pondweed (Southern Naiad) you need to get rid of it as soon as you first see it in the pond. In my pond it is a very aggressive growing pondweed and grew so fast I did not realize how fast it can take over a pond. Seemed like it had taken over in just a couple of weeks. You can't kill it off in the summer because treatment can kill the fish so it's pretty much mechanical removal and I'm not so sure you can keep up with it's growth. you can kill it off in very early spring using a contact herbicide. And maybe treat it in late Nov or early Dec will see if that works. Ok, I'm through venting.

Sorry to hear about the kill. I have to ask...Why do you only run the air 3-4.5 hours per night? Does this runtime achieve a full pond turnover in that period? Are all the HSB from the same stocking and how old are they?

Here in E. Texas if you run it any more it will raise water temps in July and Aug and early Sept to the 87 degrees or higher. Or it does in my pond. I also understand it is not necessary to turn over a ponds water in a 24 hr period. And the fish were ladder stocked each year for the past 4 and a half years. I can't say what the turnover time is with all the veggies in the pond. If I run the diffusers in the blanket of S. N. all you see are a tiny bubbles with very little water movement. When i first started running bottom diffusers i was told to run them 24 hrs and then as time went on i understood to run it only at night here and then it was said, "it's ok if it takes two or three days to turn the pond over"

When Texas got the hottest, George Glazener ran aeration 24/7 - a fountain during the day and bottom diffusers all night. And he kept his HSB (and all the other fish) alive through 3 or 4 drought years in a row

The only fish kill I ever had was when I was limiting my aeration time run and was trying running mostly in the daytime with the idea of turning the pond over during the time oxygen was super saturated. I was not home at the time as we were on vacation and only had the information from my grandson who was removing the dead fish. Most the largest fish and mostly CC with some large LMB also. Not many BG.

I had him put the aeration back on 24/7 and had no further problems.

Right now, right or wrong, I am running about 20 hours a day, shutting the air off for a few of the hottest hours of the day on each side of noon in an attempt to not heat the water quite as much.

If I ever get around to putting on the scuba tank and servicing the diffusers I think I might relocate them. When installed I put in the very deepest part of the pond. I think I might move them up a foot or two above the bottom.

Lots of variables in aeration that I sure do not have a handle on. When we have lots of wind i doubt if I even need the aeration. Back when I had some shore line erosion before I put the rock lining along the edge it was surprising seeing the currents that are generated in a pond by wind. I could watch the brown stream of water go out into the green pond water. Put a little pond dye in somewhere and watch it if you don't believe it.

Aeration is as much an art form as a science from my perspective.

Tracy, very sorry about your HSB. How many did you stock?

Yep, as Theo posted, George ran surface and subsurface aeration after he had a fish kill. IIRC, his son Jeff currently only uses surface aeration, but it's been a year or so since I was over there.

I think I read on here somewhere that HSB at around the 7-8 lb range start to become more susceptible to temperature and DO changes, so that would probably explain why. Sorry for your loss

Al, ladder stocked 80 over a four year period, stocking both in spring and fall. Why so many? It was because in the beginning I would stock them and never see them at the feeders. So, I was not sure of survival. And almost never catch one. But, now looking back it was more about my fertile water and my high forage numbers. A little over a year ago I added the Alum/lime and water cleared to 30" and I started seeing the fish and was catching alot of them. I would see schools with 40 or so HSB in the 3 to 7lb range and very fat and healthy. Course they were feed trained and feed them most days with Purina LMB feed. I'm pretty sure there are still a good number of them based on a hand feeding trip yesterday. But I may see more dead ones today, if I do I will have to gather them up. I believe that when I increased the run time, it is what killed the fish. And I think it has settled down based on the fish actively feeding. The diffusers that are running do not set on bottom but 27" off bottom.

The first year i had the diffusers the water temp was seen at 92 top to bottom from 24/7 run times. You don't want that. I agree with snrub, there is a science to it and it's more about where, and the location of your pond.

One thing about setting the diffusers up off the bottom is it will create an area of anoxic water below them. Or at least that is my assumption to get a thermocline and cooler lower water.

This is just thinking out loud. I'm not stating any of this as fact. Just discussion material.

So based on the above thinking there would still be the potential of a minor "turnover" of that bottom water. Say there is a big cold rain or maybe a really windy day after a long hot still spell.

Of course this lower water would be a much lower percentage of the total water volume that what would be without aeration, but there might still be an anoxic zone if the diffusers were high enough off the bottom.

Does this line of thinking make sense? Or am I splitting hairs? If it does make sense how do we manage around it? Or is it of such minor consequence that it is irrelevant?

Sometimes it seems like the more we know the more we realize we don't know. Or know just enough to be dangerous.

I would think it would create a vacuum effect and draw the water up from lower... again just thinking

I`m thinking along Pat`s line on this. Even if the diffusers are setup 12"-20" off the bottom it`s still creating a vacuum draw of water that pulls dead water from below and lifts it. Placing aeration in my opinion would be the most important thing. If the system is undersized that I could see causing dead zones, that are not moving with the upward flow.

I believe that you are correct. I don't see how it could work any other way.

The bubbles go up, and bring water with them. When it gets to the surface the only place left to go is outward from the bubble column.
So you get a vortex effect around the diffuser, but vertical rather than horizontal like is seen in a whirlpool or river eddy. Everything in
the water such as weed growth, rock piles, brush, dock posts/floats, etc., will have some effect on the distribution of those currents.
Bottom contour will also have a great effect - dropoffs, humps, ridges, etc. If the pond is anything other than a round bowl with a
smooth bottom, and a single diffuser set dead center, there must be areas that receive a greater degree of mixing compared to other areas.

I set the diffuser in my pond 4' off the bottom with the intention of leaving some undisturbed water for a cool water refuge area.
Is 4' enough? I'm not sure. The thermometer I bought only has a 10' cord. Right now my pond is 83.5° at 6", and 82.4° at 10'.
I really need a longer cord to gather meaningful data. Anecdotally, we are able to feel noticeably cooler pockets of water when
we go swimming.

We've all read Cody's comments relating to temp/DO preferences. Those among us who are anglers know that it's quite common
to catch fish below the thermocline during the hot part of the year. Do they stay there all the time? Obviously not, but it's apparent
that they spend time there. Do they go there just to feed, or do they go there to cool off, and maybe get a snack if the opportunity
presents? Who knows?

I think snrub called it when he said aeration is an art, rather than a science.

Experience at my 1/4 acre pond has proven that the 3 diffusers, set about 3 feet off the bottom, turn over the entire water column (no thermocline retained). One head in 10 foot of water (7' from the surface), another in 7 foot, and the 3rd in 6 foot...equally spaced on the dam half of the pond. I have taken temp readings (top to bottom) during initial start-ups that indicated that the system turns the entire water column over in a matter of hours. Within hours, the entire water column is the same temp top to bottom (within a couple degrees). The idea of a retained thermocline, with an adequate air diffused aeration system, must only be possible in larger bodies of water with substantial depth. I have yet to experiment with any heads shallower that describe above.

My concern regarding running the air less than necessary (whatever that is) is that it would not be bringing bad water up enough to make it good water and keep it that way (This is where, I assume, the "Turnover per Day" rule of thumb comes from). Hence, periodically bringing worse water up and mixing it with good water...making good water less good. I'd rather have good water at the top and bad water at the bottom compared to mediocre water throughout (and cyclic as well). I am not saying that I think this is what's going on with Tracy's pond...just making conversation and would love to hear others opinions on this topic.

I determine my air run-times during the worst of the summer by comparing the ambient air temps at night to the water temps of the pond. I will run my air at night as long as the air temps are below the pond's water temp near the surface (about 12-18" down). Example: If the 12-18" deep pond water temp is 85 degrees F...I don't turn the air on at night until the air temps are well below that (5 degrees or so). Air temps less than water temps means you will be cooling the pond by exposing the warmer water at the cooler air at the air to water interface. Overnight, my pond temps equalize top to bottom due to the turnovers and I will turn the air off in the morning as soon as daytime air temps exceed the water temp. This is where the '"art" comes in along with some other forms of magic...I, obviously, do not change my run-times daily. So, I have to watch/predict the highs and lows for the month and set the system accordingly with the timer. The depth at which I measure the water temp could be different for every pond too. It all depends on how the temp gradient is from top to bottom by the end of the day while the air is off. I try to find a depth that represents an average temp.

Just for reference for this discussion I am running a Gast 1023 rotary vane pump max flo 10cfm into three diffuser bases with double 9" Matala diffusers in a three acre pond with the diffusers in a crescent pattern following the deepest part of the pond around the dam. The pump is also running two single diffusers in my sediment and forage ponds so the pump output is divided between 8, 9" membrane diffusers but only 6 are in the main 3 acre pond. I have the flow set pretty low to those two very small ponds (1/10th and 1/20th acre respectively).

I might be getting around 8 cfm in the main 3 acre pond split between the 6 diffuser heads. They are at about a 9' depth plus or minus a foot at the bottom of the pond. Right now running about 19 or 20 hours a day being shut off around mid day.

I'm pretty sure I don't know what I am doing. But that rarely stops me anyway.

John

I'll add my observations from watching HSB in large impoundments here as it may apply to some extent..
In 2003 we had a situation in which we had some very high-unseasonably high- temps with near calm conditions for an extended period. Several weeks went by like this followed by a frontal system that brought record rainfall over a period of nearly a week. After about 4 days into the rainy, cool period we began hearing reports from the public about finding floating HSB.
What we later found was it wasn't just 1 lake, or even 1 state. This entire area including the western half of KS and SW Nebraska experienced the same ordeal and that was giant dead wipers everywhere.
The rapid change of 2 very opposite conditions were believed to have caused enough stress in a combination that the wipers didn't handle well. We know they don't handle stress well and in some lakes suffering low water conditions it's obvious they didn't handle low DO levels either. Wipers are funny fish and I feel there are a lot of unknowns yet but it's very obvious that if water conditions change for the worse the wipers (HSB) of large sizes are the first to show up.
It has to suck seeing that many fish that are almost like family, die.. Raising them to large sizes only to see them perish is not what we signed up for in this pond game. I hope things turn around for you Tracy.
This aeration game has a lot of unknows as well and I'm at the bottom of the pile in the knowledge area of this but after a month of having mine off due to turbidity from excessive craw activity and results of my trapping efforts, I'm going back to 1 hr a night for a few days then increasing 10-15 min a night per Cody recommendations until I'm back to my 10pm to 8am run time.

Sometimes it seems like the more we know the more we realize we don't know. Or know just enough to be dangerous.

It all depends... :-))

I felt that was appropriate John.

I'm sorry to hear about your loss Tracy. Hopefully, you have a good number of others still remaining.

I think you could continue the ladder stocking. It may be wise to set a max harvest length where when they attain that length they are harvested for eating. A 22" HSB weighs just under 6 lbs at standard weight and is a dandy fish. Don't know but maybe that length, given you know you can grow them to that length, would be an appropriate length of harvest.

Seems like Bill C. mentioned harvesting at 20" because of high mortality after release. Not all will be caught, of course, so there is still a chance to grow and catch larger fish.

What is the average or normal life span of a HSB?

Our largest and best LMB or SMB we kind of want to leave in the pond as long as possible to carry on the genetics as long as possible. But with HSB that is not an option.

So it would seem with the HSB harvest at some point is needed or ultimately they are going to die of old age at some point even if environmental conditions don't get them first.

Overton's says 6-7 years at their website.

I agree with most every comment made since my last post. All of you, it seems to me are knowledgeable when it comes to bottom diffusers and ponds. I think i have learned alot over the past 4 1/2 years when it comes, DO measurements, temps and bottom diffusers and my pond. But this year I am dealing with a large amount of vegetation, it's something I have not dealt with before. It has effected my aeration.

Snrub, Snipe when you guys said we know just enough to be dangerous, I agree. The fish were doing good and then they weren't. After increasing run times and I knew that if I increased run times the water temps would go up. As I said the water temps were cooler this year because of the shading from blanket of bushy pond weed.

Pat, the diffusers do vacuum up the water below the diffusers when placed 2 1/2 feet off bottom. It was more about not disturbing the sediment when they are moved off the ponds bottom at my place.

QA, run times that u r doing is real close to what I was doing this year. Adjusting run times during the nights coolest times.

I could go on agreeing with u guys. Theo, I have been wanting a surface aeration system for my pond for at least the past 3 yrs. I think as u said, George seemed to have it figured out after his first fish kill. I have mentioned I wanted it it here in the past but did not have electricity at the pond. I am pretty sure George ran his using solar power. Thanks for bringing up George Glazner , he lives on here at this forum.

I spoke with Brian (Highflyer) yesterday with plans on how to do a solar system that will run at night during the hot times of the year. He helped out WBJ here with his mountain retreats pond and i am sure he has helped others here and through his PB Magazine articles . Brian said he is really busy right now with his flying, but still he offered to help. Good Guy that I met through this place!

Goals, What is or was my goal at the pond? To grow as many large trophy fish as I could so kids/young people could catch a big one. Bottom diffusers are supposed to increase the area of a pond so more fish can be raised per acre of water. That might be possible but i think it needs to be used with surface air.

Tracy - sorry about the loss. My 2 cents it was not just or even mostly the aeration. More likely new water and cloudy skies for several days. Doubt it was heat related. With that short a run time increase and no whole pond turnover the HSB would have moved to the part of the pond where DO was higher. Probably running at to high a carrying capacity and whole pond low DO due to new water and cloudy skies. Could easily be wrong though - a guess.

I agree, cloudy days with no wind are recipe for a DO sag and a fish kill. One thing I have noticed is that when a DO sag occurs fish tend to move shallow next the bank so there may be some wisdom in surface aeration in shallow areas.

Seems like the more we manage a pond for high output by increasing the feed and increasing the aeration, the more management it takes.

Wow, Tracy, it sucks to lose big fish! Sometimes it's our mistakes, but sometimes it's unavoidable when we have a BOW loaded with fish. Happened to my large CNBG in fall of 2017, otherwise I'd have some two pounders now.

I'm beginning to think that either surface aeration or nanobubbles might be less risky than bottom aeration. Could be just a coincidence, but seem to notice that there are a lot of fish kills associated with mixing bottom water in the summer, even when done thoughtfully & carefully.

I think you r on track Eric. I don't think it was heat related. It was more about lower DO in warmer water if we are talking bottom aeration and not looking at other influence's. I have seen it in my pond when I first started running aeration and checking DO. DO went down the warmer the water during the summer and running bottom diffusers. But I do think the increase in diffuser run time also had an influence, it's just that it happened at the same time the diffuser time was increased. I think "it was all the above" a combination of it all.

You know, if it were not for all the reading I've done along with the recommendations from the people that are supposed to know about bottom air , my 4 1/2 years of experience with bottom air i am not so sure it is the right thing to do. I really think surface aeration is more likely the best way to go, in my pond anyway. Half of my pond is 6 to 7' with an acre and a half of deeper 9 to 10'. Certain times of the year it will be a little deeper.

Tracy:

You mentioned in a previous post about DO readings. What were they at the different depths?

Up here, we stock trout in the Fall for winter and spring fishing. They last until around 70 degree water temp and then go belly up. A client had them still alive in his pond at 80 degree water temp. Pond was 12' deep, 7/8 acre. We ran a Vertex system 24/7 with three airstations, each with 2 diffusers on each. He also ran a 2 hp volcano type surface agitator 24/7. O2 levels were 8.1mg/l that's why the trout were still alive.

Last year another client was able to over summer his trout. Pond is about 27' deep, we played with the subsurface Vertex system for 3 years and finally hit on a combination that worked. He also ran his system 24/7 and ran a 1 hp surface agitator. In that pond we adjusted the bottom aeration system so the pond would set up a thermocline around 12' deep.

In another large HOA pond (18 acres) that had a high phytoplankton bloom and high underwater weed growth mass, the HOA could not afford to aerate the whole pond the first year. We installed a bottom diffuser system in half the pond, using two 3/4 hp compressors. August rolled around, visibility dropped, water temp climbed and the pond had a fish kill. What was interesting is that ONLY the half of pond that wasn't aerated had a fish kill, and the closer you got to the aerated half, the less dead fish there were. The pond was only a maximum of 8' deep, and no thermocline ever set up in the pond, it was strictly a night time O2 crash that killed the fish.

I truly think that it's more about having enough O2 in the water than pond water temp.

When I tried to keep trout alive longer in my pond by only running the diffusers at night when the night time temps were below 70 degrees, it actually killed the trout quicker because the system homogenized the whole water column, but wasn't large enough to raise the O2 levels enough on it's own. If I were to run a surface agitator, I believe I could keep trout for a much longer period of time.

I'd be very interested in hearing what your O2 levels were at different depths of the pond, and at different times of the day.

Hey, Tracy. Do you use a standpipe behind the dam to take out excess water? I went that direction and it does tend to help clear out anoxic or near anoxic bottom water. At the pond today I saw a strong outflow from the top of the pipe, but there was no bad smell. Probably all the rain has pushed most of the low DO water out already.

Essup, it's good to hear form you, been awhile. I wish you the best in all this virus crap going around.

Ok, the water temps/Do I mentioned were what I have seen for a 3 year period. Like most everyone when I got my new toy temp/Do Meter 4 yrs ago I checked things out most every time I went to the pond which was almost daily. Remember, I was trying to grow extral large lmb. And I wanted to know year round! My Do meter became a problem last year and I got tired of ordering new probes and then something else would quit. Made in China. It is a Sper Scientific brand. Would not recommend it. And it was not cheap. So, today I use it for temp readings only. My surface temps in open water was running 82 and was alot warmer in the thick matt of vegetation but measured simply by putting my hand in it as I gathered it up putting it in the boat for discard. There was a thermocline prior to me starting up the diffusers @ or around 6 to 7 foot. For the 3 + years i checked the DO it always measured low at and near the bottom, usually about 2 foot on the ponds bottom and that was prior to me starting bottom diffusers. The Do was 1.5 and after starting aeration it would go to 3,5 or so after running diffusers but the water temps went to 92 that first summer running 24/7 and then the next year running 12 hrs per night temps would go to 87. Still to hot according to Bob's Wednesday Facebook program. So I then went to 4 to 5 hrs from 3 am to 6 or 7am. Water temps would stay around 84 even with me raising the diffusers 27" off bottom. Now with all this going on I would turn on the water well where it added 72 degree water 24/7 during July, Aug, Sept. In that hottest time of the year. The well water has a venture system where it adds air along with the water then traveling a 40' ribbed culvert and then splash on rocks before it entered the pond water. Tp and Gams will hang out there along with some 8 to 12" lmb. I have felt for several years now that two large volume surface volcano's were needed along with the diffuser's. Problem is the cost of it all. Solar is not cheap but looks like the best way to go for me. Highflyer (Brian) and I discussed this just the other day, and if he can work it in (free time is hard to come by these days don't you think?) I understand that fish are not cheep either

Frank, (Anthropic) I have a syphon system that will move some water out of the pond at times, but because of my pond bottom design it does not syphon from the deepest waters. Another reason for Bottom Diffusers.

Frank, I've seen where you have some Bushy Pondweed in your coves and making them not so fishable. Alot of my 3+ acre pond is full if it. Some of it is brownish tan color with a small amount of green strands in it. This area is like it is free floating so to speak and is in the deeper water. Where other areas, it is so thick it looks tanish light brown colored on the very top of it but just under that it is alot of green and the deeper you rake it up the greener it is. I did add a small amount of the Aquathol Super but a very small area close to the pier. I wanted to see what it did before I added it to larger area. After reading this past Pond Boss Magazine I am really happy I did such a small area (a square yard or two area). I am going to wait till this fall when the water cools down before I treat any more. I don't need the headaches as described when treating plants, large blooms after treatments along with bad alge. I wanted to ask you since you had it last summer, what happened to it as it died back in the warmer water? Did it float forever or did it finally sink to bottom? Can anyone here explain what the process is when it dies back, if it ever does?

And Frank, you have been looking or did add grass carp. So in my pond here is what I have seen with them. The first 3 per acre I added were 14" in length and maybe a pound in weight. Added in Oct, last fall. I saw one this week that was at least 30" and in the 6 to 7lb range I am guessing. At that time I had quite a bit of the pondweed but it really took off as a very aggressive plant after last fall into this spring and summer. I add an additional 5 in early June at 12 to 13" and I saw one the other day that must be around 3 lbs maybe 18" long. Bob L. on Face book said they might eat 7 times there weight per day. I sure hope thats right at my place, as they seem to be very fast growing. i just thought i would throw the info out there for you. Or for anyone else that might be interested.

Tracy, last year my bushy pondweed seemed like it would take over the entire pond, then slowed, stopped, and gradually subsided. Peak was in June. Some floating, but mostly it sank after dying. This year I've seen pretty much the same thing, probably not quite as much growth due to all the rain & murkier water.

Thanks for info re grass carp. They do grow fast! Looks like I'll be doing herbicide treatment when temps cool, then add GC. Right now I am going through the permitting process. I have incredible numbers of CNBG, ranging from YOY to giants, hiding in the weeds. Forage pond helped boost population, I think. Really want the LMB to get a clear shot at them!

Be careful with the grass carp.

My RES/SMB one acre pond was over run with bushy pond weed last year. Water was clear and the weed was terrible. I put in two grass carp late summer then a different fish truck came around that fall and decided to do two more. So four total in one acre. This spring the BPW was in remission but could still easily pull it up on a fishing lure. Today you have to cast quite a bit and try and you can pull a little up. But the pond is basically denuded.

The GC are about estimate 18-20" long. I have seen 3 at one time so not sure if the 4th is still in there or not. Could have been taken out by our resident GBH. I never saw them as long as there was plenty of pondweed for them to eat. See them regularly now.

I really would not have minded if a little of the BPW would have survived and made some cover for my fingerlings. Now I basically have a bare pond and GC that come running when I feed and have become pellet hogs because they cleared out all their other food.

Knowing what I know now I would have started with two per acre instead of four.

Thanks for the info John, I started with 3 per acre but no way they curtailed the spring growth. It was recommended I add 5 per acre but I understood it was good to have some BPW. So, I just added 10 al together. WRONG! That crap loves my pond. I think it was one reason I lost some of my HSB this summer. Last fall I would see on the outside of my APW and not alot of it. And some said it was good to have some. No Way I think you want it in a pond. You are also a good example of how it took over. It cleared my water all the way to 10' depths and then grew there also. Like Frank, I am loaded with cnbg in the 3 to 4" size. The perfect size for the lmb and hsb but if they can't catch them and eat them it's no advantage to having them. In fact at this time, I see no reason for a forage pond because there are so many and I am used to haveing a good forage base for growing large lmb/hsb. I am sure my Tp are also booming with babies. As I rake it into the boat I find 1" lmb, 1/2" cnbg or res in it, they are to small to tell the difference right now.

Thanks Tracy. Staying safe with the virus thing going on, our county has a VERY low infected count, and I do the social distancing/face mask/latex glove thing too. 2020 sucks in more ways than one though. Spent a lot of time earlier this year keeping Mom away from any virus worries, her back started hurting May 1st, (Osteoporosis so that was typical) but it didn't go away. May 22nd she was diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer, she passed away 2 weeks later. I'm going Tuesday to have a cataract removed from the 2nd eye, they did the left eye last week....

When it rains it pours I guess. Plus I'm the executor of the will so I have a LOT of paperwork to read.....

I was sorry to hear about your Mom when you posted your loss. I've been there when it came as a surprise with my Mom. Happened in just a few days. As an executer, I had to work with my sister and my moms husband and those two did not get along. I closed out everything as fair as I thought possible and to her wishes and told the others if you don't like what I'm doing get a lawyer. I know an executer is necessary but dam, but it was a pain in the arse with me and took around 11 months to sell her house extending the pains. Best wishes to you.

We are building a large sized rake using a 12' alum boat as the float that will keep the rake off bottom. Too many man made fish habitat's for raking the ponds bottom. Plans are to build the rake out of 2x6 or 2x12 board with teeth made from rebar. Not sure if this is going to work but brainstorming design plans. Drag the boat to ropes length into the pond, attach the man made rake to boat using C clamps and tie the rope to the tractor and drag it out of the pond. No telling at this time how it will work or what design we will end up with. Any recommendations? We are trying to speed up the raking time. Rake it to the bank and then up on the bank, let it dry and then burn it off asap. It would be good if we could come up with something that works, market it and help others and maybe cover cost and effort. Dreaming!

learned some more when it came to removing some of the BPW. Our boat with attached rake did move the BPW as we drug it through the floating matt but that's all we did was move it to the shallows. Looking for a better way to drag it out of the pond. The rake we used was a cut off portion of that alum cage that surrounds those large tote liquid containers. Now we are going to try a twin bed spring attached to that same boat.

We continue our attempt to remove all the floating BPW matts. One end of the pond is about an acre of matt in 6' of water along with another half acre covered at the other end of the pond. I am not sure how my larger lmb are doing? I have found only one dead lmb this summer, a 4 lb'er . And would like to find a company to Manage the vegetation. Anyone know a company that would do that around the Marshall Texas area? I would like to have them for at least a year so I could learn from them on how to manage the vegetation.

Something that I have thought about but never implemented is attaching a rake of sorts to the quick tach bracket on a tractor front end loader.

Something like a small landscape rake made for the 3pt hitch but instead loader brackets so it would attach to the loader. Something with a longer boom would be even better.

That would help at least get the mats out of the water without hand raking. I thought of this back in the days I had huge amounts of FA to rake out on the bank. Never did anything about it though.

I made something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nHHpBdFcA and mounted on the quick attach on my tractor. It worked pretty well for scraping up muck around the edges. I actually used an old antenna tower for the arm and used landscape rake tines for the head. It is pretty heavy. Would have been nice to use aluminum.

Snrub I'm surprised you dont have this already. You have quite the collection of big boy toys.

I have a landscape rake and have thought on how to rig it up to the front end loader on my tractor. But that is as far as it has gone. I can see it now "tractor sunk"

My son and grandson came out the other evening to assist. And like I said earlier we could get the mats to the ponds edge but was having trouble getting it out of the water, So they walked into the water to toss it onto the shore and ran out after getting stung by some insect that lives in the matt. I called them a wuss but it does hurt when stung, like a small wasp sting. I have been stung several times when I hand bring the matt into the boat. I have no idea on what it is that's stinging us. There are several different insects buried in the matt. Some of them look like they are bad ass bugs but never been able to see what is really stinging us. I think the insect lives in the water surface in the matt but it seems like they are under water insects.

Anyone know of a pond management company around the Marshall Tx area?

Dragonfly Naiads are painful, probably what you have. they'll make you bleed..:-))

TGW1, I don't know of anybody down there that manages the aquatic weeds. There is a company up here that does it locally, and they charge $1,800.00/year/surface acre for 12 treatments.

That is something like I had in in mind. Never got around to it and have not had the problem in my main pond since. One problem also is I have quite a bit of structure and rocks in the pond I wanted to use it in and it would definitely be hard on those things.

Tracy, get in touch with Kelly Duffie here on PB

Thanks esshup for the info, I was hoping that there might be someone local here in the E. Texas area but yet to find one. Dave, a few weeks back, I did talk to Kelly through email and we discussed grass carp as a solution but any improvement by grass carp is most likely a couple of years away. because the BPW has taken over the pond. After spending thousands and putting alot of time into a trophy pond, it's pretty discouraging. Fireishot has helped but because it is summer your hands are pretty much tied when it come to any chemical solution. So right now the pond is running it's course. We continue to rake the pond but not sure that we will ever catch up.

Found a 21" lmb dead and floating yesterday. Lost a trophy and that sucks. Hope I don't find more of them today. Fish seemed to be doing fine after the big hsb kill. Been running diffusers 4 1/2 hrs per night. Son ran over air line with brush hog. Went a day without air, found dead fish. I am still not sure running diffusers is the way to go when it comes to our warm hot summer days. Did anyone notice Bob Lusk Facebook comments about him shutting off his diffusers for a few days this past week? Maybe I am thinking alike. Look at fish suppliers, they run surface aeration not diffusers. Highflyer is kind enough to help me out in finding a solution. I am willing to put in more money for surface air but it may be looking at alot of money for a solution. I am guessing that it may run at least 2 to 5,000 for any type of surface aeration when looking at a 3 acre pond. Looking at 1500 for first attempt but I am not sure this will solve the aeration problem I am seeing at the pond right now. Right now I am not sure it's cheaper for a pond over bass boats and new truck to pull it with, Hind sight is 20/20. Grass carp should be added to any pond when doing the first stocking of a pond in E. Texas or at least stock them the first year. Everyone I have spoken to, the first question they ask is do you have grass carp.

7 more dead HSB this morning. I will start the diffusers back starting at 15 min at 4am and double it till I get to 3 hrs and then I am going no further with it. My fish kill started when I went to 4 hr run time so not going back there. To be honest I am not sure that I even want to run it at all during the summer months and my experience with diffused air after 4 years is to run it during the spring and fall when you really don't even need it because of the cooler water and higher DO numbers without the aeration. Can you tell I am not sold on diffused air?

I think George had a similar problem with diffused air and so he added a surface agitator and never lost any more fish. There's an old thread about it here somewhere.

I remember that with George Bocomo. The reason I have not already done the surface air is because there is no electricity at the pond. I looked into doing that a few years back but cost for getting power to the pond was 10,000 and then you had to add the cost of the volcano's on top of that. So 15,000 +-. Highflyer/Brian is working on a way to use solar power. He asked how much i wanted to spend and I said 1500 but now I am thinking it may run twice that before it's all over. I may need to untie his hands giving him an open pocket book and let him do what ever it takes.

Tracy I think you need a good analysis on how close you are to carrying capacity.

Surface aeration for 5 acres? My only aeration advice is to start taking baby aspirin about a week before Brian tells you the cost. It'll help prevent a stroke. He and I were discussing the cost of a solar powered paddle wheel aerator I wanted if and when I put a silt pond in. We only made it to the battery cost before I vetoed the plan.

Eric's statement got me thinking. What would be the downside of shutting down your feeders, and letting your predators dine solely on forage until your water cools off this fall?

Eric, If I have learned anything over the past 5 yrs it's that mother nature has a strong input when it comes to pond management. Mother Nature will make any corrections needed in a body of water, or on a piece of land. No mater what you do, when MN needs to correct things it will, The problem is, what I want and what MN wants are two different things. No matter if it's Ponds, Quail numbers on a given piece of land or the number of deer, mother nature makes the corrections.

Al, it's funny I think. We have to laugh at what it cost to do any type of solar system that actually works when it is needed. I can get solar to do the job, but it may be 20,000 bucks to get there. Double what it would cost to run electricity to the pond. Look back at houses/homes. where there were large kick backs from the government. It was or is the only way anyone could justify adding a solar system to a house.

I am now in the process of hiring some help for raking vegetation at the pond. Not a management company because I have yet to find a company to manage aquatic vegetation, Hoping to find someone that is willing to show up for at least a two week job or maybe a months works. H E double LL. I could see where it could turn into a full time job.

Tracy, SOLitude folks will manage aquatic vegetation. Other companies might do, too, but I know SOL will.

Eric, I could see where an e survey might be nice to have when and if I can get rid of the vegetation that is covering about 2/3rd's of the pond surface. It could be an opportunity to adjust my thinking of how to get to that trophy pond after all the trial and error I have experienced over the past 5 1/2 yr's.

Check your PM for message sent

Tracy - a thought - how is you alkalinity ?

I have not checked alk lately, last ck was in the 130's. but it's been awhile. I don't think I can make any adjustment if needed until I get rid of the BPW, it's just to thick. Looks like I have lost all the HSB and a 21" lmb A NICE ONE. That bothers me more. That's the ones I want passing along the genetics. I hope I don't lose any more of those lmb. There are or were some really nice (big) lmb in the pond, I am hoping they are still there. They were already hard to catch so it's not so easy to determine if they are there in the first place. One indication that they were there is the fact that I was short in numbers of 6 to8" cnbg over the past 6 months.

A friend said he was tired of hearing about my dying fish, it's because he cared and not mint to be mean about it. It's true, I am also tired of hearing about it.

So, for all those that want to learn from my mistakes, it's to control your vegetation, control excess nutrients, It's not so easy to do that. and don't put in so many predators that will grow to larger sizes. The pond seemed to be balanced and then it wasn't, The vegetation grew out of control fast. Identify it early and see how aggressive it can be. Get grass carp and Tilapia before that happens. If you are asking yourself, do I need to treat the vegetation, DO IT if you can, don't wait and see. You might need to chemically treat your pond do it in the early spring don't wait. I hope others learn from my mistakes.

If alkalinity is in the 100 range you should not have a buffering problem.

Sorry to hear about your continuing problems Tracy.

It seems like the more we manage a pond the more we have to manage it.

Add feed = grow more fish biomass = increase potential for fish kill
Add aeration = grow even more fish biomass = increase potential for fish kill
Try to grow big fish with all of the above and don't harvest anything = even more potential for fish kill.

It seems like the more we do the more we have to do to keep all the balls in the air.

I have removed about 425 fish so far from my three ponds to try and avoid what you are having. Maybe around 200-300 pounds. I had a modest fish kill last year while we were on an extended vacation. My grandson got to take care of the aftermath of that and since I was not around not sure what and how many died. From his report some large bass and catfish. So we have fished pretty hard up to hot weather to try and reduce the overall biomass in the pond and give room for the new recruits coming on and for the remaining fish to grow. Also have cut down of the feed rate through the hot months.

We will see if does any good.

John, after five yr's of management I still don't know what I don't know. My learning curve can be pretty steep and costly. So how many fish is too many? I still don't know. You can't determine it through fishing, big fish are harder to catch because they are smarter, more familiar with their surroundings and Florida bass are harder to catch anyway. Even when it looked like i had x number per acre, u could not catch but maybe one per hr. I think this fish kill had more to do with excess vegetation due to high nutrients from feeding over a five yr period. Too much vegetation means low Do in the night hrs. The pond had lost it's thread fin shad population last fall due to clear water and nothing for them to eat. So that was a reduction of fish and my 6 to 8" cnbg were for the most part gone. Another reduction of pounds per acre, And when bass fishing u almost never caught a 12 or 13 " lmb. We did not cull because they were not there. I do think there were too many HSB but the RW's were good so i did not feel like they were starved of food, That messed with my thinking/logic at the time. They were hand feed for the most part, again to much feeding going on. High nutrient water grows alot of veggies.

Man, I'm sorry to hear about your problems, Tracy. You pushed your pond very successfully to max biomass, far better than I have, but as you say balance is always temporary.

I've taken some steps to cut back on my bushy pondweed, too. Hope I don't get a fish kill out of it, will try to nip it in the bud next spring. Once it gets going in summer, very tough to control.

I am going to meet up with Josh in the morning, concerning the BPW. We will see what he thinks from where/how the pond is now.

And Frank, I did push to grow fish as fast as I could, 9 lb lmb in 4 yrs is not bad but i was slow to react to the bpw, had no idea it was so aggressive growing in my pond till it was too late. Really had no issues until the bpw took over. Went from a great pond to crap in 6 months. Added G carp in Oct when little of it was seen in the pond but not enough carp at 3 per acre.

Maybe the combination of an herbicide in spring plus your grass carp will get the brushy pondweed under control. I've asked permission to stock about 3 per acre, too, in the hopes that will be enough. Interested to see if the reduction from herbicide at my place will help LMB find more forage and improve growth rates.

Nine pounds in four years is amazing. My biggest LMB caught so far is only around six. HSB have grown faster, which is kinda odd considering that I only stocked TFS this year. Probably limited HSB numbers help.

We met at the pond this morning, Ph good in the 7 range alk over a hundred. Water looks good condition. Problem is low DO @ 3.4 a foot under the surface and 2. 41 3' down in 4' water depths. Vegetation is defiantly the problem and low DO is what I expected. It was cloudy when we checked. Concern about treating any vegetation at this time because of low DO and killing more fish so he leans toward no treatment at this time, the water is just to hot. Recommended 24/7 diffusers run. I see his point, fish may die to to hot water but they are dying now because of vegetation and hot water, so turn it up. Will see how the rest of the summer goes and how many more fish die? We did not have a total fish kill but it may not be over yet because of the BPW. Recommendation's were to treat pond with Sonar all at once when the water is cool in late Feb early March. Till then wait and see and hope.

Frank, sorry but the 9 lbrs caught were 4 and half yrs old.

Fish kills suck! I'm sorry Tracy!

WBJ, I know u have been there done that. Or u lost fish. And yes it sucks. A great fishery for an E Texas pond just went to Chet. I see alot of small sized cnbg along with some Tp and a few lmb. And the pond is full of BF tadpoles. Something I have not seen since the ponds fist spring. Makin lemonade out of lemons, I see where I might be able to do something different come next spring. Right now, my plans are to monitor catch rates, size of fish this coming fall when the water cools and then maybe entertain an E survey next spring and go from there. And your solar buddy (and my buddy too) is working with me to improve my aeration situation, low DO, by moving some surface waters using solar power and or another way (experimenting with air) so like you, I hope to improve what I have now. So in the future I can improve the DO during the hot summer months without the water temps moving to the 92 degree water temps. Maybe an air conditioner pumping cold air into the diffusers might help. I need to talk to Brian about that lol.

I'm running aeration 24/7 right now, water temps are in the mid eighties. I suspect your bushy pond weed is hindering water movement/circulation and therefore DO exchange.

Tracy - It can definitely be discouraging. Good news is for you it's not an every year thing. The other good news is there is ALWAYS a solution. It just takes a combination of time and money!!! The more money you spend the less time it usually takes and vice versa.

Tracy, I had my BPW treated 2 weeks ago. Went from 25 to 10 percent coverage, maybe less. Water is murky with decaying plants,, but no sign of cyanobacteria nor fish kill. Fish still feeding pretty well considering temperatures.

Frank, glad to hear. I met the guy that did your place. He was the guy that did not think we should kill the vegetation at this time. As you know every pond is different. Right now the BPW is dying back and sinking to the ponds bottom. But still have alot of it on the surface. Diffused air is up and running. We continue to rake for removal.

Last night my son called me and asked me if I could remove a hook from his finger? Showed up 20 min later and I was able to remove the hook using fishing line and I popped it right out. That was after an hour of his wife attempting to remove it. EVERYONE who owns a pond should learn this process, it would save many a trip to the emergency room for hook removal. My point is, there are still some good sized lmb in the pond. He said it was a fat and healthy lmb that he caught when it shook and wiggled as he was removing the bait and he got his finger hooked up with a medium sized top water bait. Not sure of the exact size of the lmb as his fish estimated weights are always on the heaver side He said it weighed about 3 lbs but I'm guessing it was a little smaller lol

A treble hook looks like a boat anchor when it is stuck in your hand!!!

Well done removing the hook, Tracy! I once hooked my brother in the back when I pulled a lure out of a tree branch, it was not fun for him at all. He got back (no pun intended) at me by messing up the net so I lost a big smallmouth, the only large fish hooked on the trip, though he denies it was intentional.

As for weed treatment, you are getting good advice. Better to be safe than sorry, especially since you are fighting low DO anyway. Interesting that BPW is fading on its own this time of year, just as it does at my place. Bob Lusk said that it gets covered with periphyton, which I guess makes sense but I do wonder why this doesn't seem to slow other pond plants.

I agree Frank, thanks for the info as to who you had come out. After all my research along with talking to Al, who treats his own weeds, I decided it might be smarter if I hired someone for my first year of weed control. Since almost everyone I talked to, their first question for treatment was " Do I have Grass carp" ? And it takes about 3 yrs for them to make a difference. The problem I see with that is how many survived transfer into the pond? My personal experience might lead me to believe 50 %. And so it might take 6 yrs if you only have half the carp Or another fish kill because I am no expert when it comes to treating ponds with chemicals

Tracy, my GC are out and about. We're seeing several groups of 4-5 working on patches of BPW. Rarely saw groups of them before the BPW showed up in mass this year. Ours isn't near as bad as yours, but it is worse than it ever has been.

I'm wondering if the mild winter we had is causing all of this. I've been helping several neighbors that are overrun with weeds and algae this year. The only ponds up here that aren't having issues, are the ones with turbid water.

Al, I wonder the same about mild winters. After all, most of the climate warming we've had is during winter, not summer. But mild winters don't scare people the way torrid summers do, so the media rarely mentions this fact. Tracy said some of his tilapia overwintered, another sign.

I am sorry to hear about the bad news. Here is take home message, in my opinion.

Diffused air systems are not all they are hyped up to be. Many of my clients have had fish kills even with diffused air systems in place. Many have killed their fish by creating turn-over. Once you get these systems going, don't use a timer, run em 24/7 through the growing season.

Pond more than 10' deep? Run a surface aerator in addition to the diffused air system.

Pond less than 10' deep? Run a good surface aerator and forget about diffused air.

Nothing can take the place of a good surface aerator. If you have lots of pondweeds then stay away from units with a bottom screen that may get clogged up and require lots of maintenance.

This advise is for Tracy direct: Get yourself a 2HP paddlewheel from AES for $1321 and be done with it for good:

https://pentairaes.com/paddlewheel-aerators-for-aquaculture-waste-water.html

Get an extra replacement motor just in case, so you'll have it when you need it.

Those don't come with power cable, so you need to supply that yourself. You will be off the races, and hopefully won't have to worry about this happening again.

It sure is frustrating to watch as an industry steers pond owners towards towards ineffective, high maintenance, and expensive products, while there are more efficient and effective solutions hidden in plain sight.

This topic is probably the most controversial one I've seen on here, and everyone has a different opinion on it, largely in part due to the fact that it's all we have: opinions. There is no hard science to actually show what diffused air does for your BoW. There are too many variables: water temperature, air temperature, pond depth, biomass, access to wind, what type of water source you have, what species you have, access to electricity, etc, etc. MOST people on here say that aeration is better, not only to provide more DO, but to help with the overall breakdown of "bad stuff" in your pond. Some experts on here say that adding aeration allows your BoW to hold more fish, but as we've seen by this post, adding more fish or allowing your biomass to get really high can have deadly consequences, with or without aeration. It's a risk vs reward scenario, and I think that you are right when it comes to surface aeration, because there's virtually no risk in doing that, and you get a lot of the benefits of diffused air.

After reading a LOT of the aeration topics on this forum, it's been drilled into our brains to aerate, aerate, aerate, but, like you said, I don't think it's as hyped up as it should be. I'm in the process of receiving quotes for a 1/2 to 3/4 acre pond on my property and I think you've convinced me to just stick with surface aeration.

But there is some hard science. There is a SAE value for aerators. This is a measurement is pounds of oxygen per horsepower per hour of operation. The Standard Aeration Efficiency (SAE) is approximately 4.1 on the paddlewheel models from AES.

Kasco surface aerators have SAE values of 2.6-3.2

Kasco fountains have SAE values of 1.5-2.5

But bottom diffused air systems? Any SAE value? I don't see any posted.

Add to this, the fact that paddlewheels create a good amount of current. I struggle to swim against the current of my 2hp units. They displace a great deal of water.


p.s. I stand corrected. Kasco reports diffused air SAE as 1.0-4.0. From my experience, I expect it it to be towards the low end of that range, and dependent on lots of factors.

Great information. What I meant by hard science was when to use it, how long to run it, what temps to run it in, stuff like that. There isn't one right answer, but many wrong answers. I'm surprised at the effectiveness of fountains. Most people on here say that they do little to nothing for your pond, other than provide aesthetics, but their SAE values aren't too shabby. Gives me more to think about.

Todd, THANKS for the information.. As I stated earlier in this thread, I have not seen a single hatchery that has diffused air. I also said I was not all that impressed with diffused air even after running it for 4 and a half years and checking DO and TEMPS. It might and I say might help the water clean up a little. And I have seen diffused air raise DO at the bottom of my pond but it went from 1.5 to 3.0 and 3.0 on the ponds bottom with 92 degree water temps are not all that impressive, or that's the way I feel about it anyway. Every hatchery pond I have seen runs surface aeriation. At your place all I have ever seen were Paddle wheels. I've herd it said here, You will kill some fish during the learning curve growing fish in a pond. Ok, I can now say Been there Done that. Time to move on and do it right this time.

Tracy, how much energy do you want/need? Do you want to run the paddlewheel during the day, the night, or both?

Todd,

For Tracy's three acre pond, how many HP paddlewheel does he need?

Hay Brian, I am guessing 24/7 during our worst time of the year.

Brian, lets hope only one 2 hp wheel lol

Let's see, 2HP, that's 1500watts nominal, or 1.5kW continuous, that's 36 kWh per day, at 48 volts DC thats 720 AHs from the system, so to never fall below 60% SOC, your battery bank needs to be 1800 AH's which means a small fortune in batteries, then there is the panels, to produce 36 kWh you'll need 18 350 watt panels, two masts, and all the fixins.

Let's see if we can do this with less power. OR...

Ouch, that's 1080 kWh per month. Average monthly power usage in the United States is around 900 kWh per month, so you're looking at doubling your electric bill, if you can't use solar.

There is a reason CC farms and hatcheries use paddlewheel systems. They move a lot of air into the surface (top 2-3 feet) water quickly. They are not whole pond (all depths) systems. Each type of system has its pluses and minuses - learn them and use what meets your goals. If you are running at a high carrying capacity then you need emergency aeration - like a paddlewheel type system.

See this for info - unbiased.

https://srac.tamu.edu/fact-sheets/serve/292

Fish farms and hatcheries use paddlewheel because THEY WORK, plus they are efficient. They circulate oxygenated water deeper than the top 2-3 feet, my best guess down to 6-8 feet. If you have a good paddlewheel, and run it 24/7 during growing season, then you will likely be saved from a fish kill even if your pond or lake suffers from turn-over or plankton crash. However, the diffused air systems won't do squat for you during an emergency. Your pond can suffer oxygen depletion regardless of fish capacity. My advise is for Tracy, based on experience. A 2 HP should be enough to handle the 3 acres, as long as you continue to run the diffused air also.

Steve, the reason why I'm interested in the solar is for exactly what you brought up. Elec Co Ops are expensive when it comes to electric bills. I also understand that A good hatchery, like Overton's should make enough to cover electrical expenses where a private pond owner may not be able to justify the expense. But on the other hand if you want a 3 acre pond that will support more than a couple of double digit lmb the cost to do so is not cheap. And a fish kill will cost you some money also. Considering what it cost to grow out some DD lmb. You are looking at the price of the lmb genetics, forage fish, grass carp, herbicides, daily supplemental feeding the forage fish, shock surveys, aeration and time and labor (effort) just to mention a few cost and if you want to do this in a short period of time, there will be supplemental forage fish stocking, or the cost for a forage fish pond with more supplemental feeding. Hobbies are not cheap!

Ewest

That was a VERY interesting read. Pretty much proves it IS more efficient to aerate at night versus daytime. Also interesting that running diffusers in deeper water allows more of the O2 from the bubbles to be absorbed into the water. We hear so much "the bubbles don't provide the air, the atmosphere does". Lots of good stuff in there. I am going to have to read it again.

I wished I had learned more about aeration during my first year of the pond. Had I learned that Diffused air did little to improve DO a pond that was 15' or shallower I would have selected a paddlewheel over the diffused air. My pond depths is at 12' but not during the summer months, it's closer to 10 or 11' during that time of year. I would be willing to bet that majority of the lakes in Texas and Louisiana are shallower than the 15' depths. As I stated earlier in this thread prior to adding diffused aeriation my DO on or at the ponds bottom was 1.5ppm and after diffused aeration it was 3ppm both of these numbers were classified as critical in this report in a catfish pond. And most of us know a catfish can live on dry land for quite awhile where other Predator fish will not and that alone tells me they require less O2. I could have saved the money used on the diffused aeration system. But since I already have it then a combination of the paddlewheel with existing system may work when aeration is really needed in a pond larger than one acre.

Tracy - it would be very interesting if you were able to run some experiments since you will have both. Maybe run just the paddlewheel and see what the DO profile looks like. Then paddle wheel plus diffused, etc.

From what I have seen you'd be the only guy pumping out that kind of information.

I do think there are some distinct advantages to horizontal aeration vs. vertical aeration.

WBJ, I don't have a paddlewheel right now but with Brian's assistance maybe I can get one up and running. Spending my kids and grandkids inheritance. I have seen the paddle wheels @ Overton's and they will move some water. So, I'm with Shorty on this one.

I cut my feeding back a little, thought that might help out some because of the hot water and I saw some really nice cnbg in the 9" or larger size and saw a nice lmb moving through the same area. My numbers of decent sized lmb are down but seems like i did have some of those survive the fish kill. So, right now I am keeping an eye out for good numbers of forage sized cnbg.

ewest, thanks for posting this link to SRAC aeration article. Good stuff.

I would hazard a guess that, like any tool, there are distinct advantages to each depending on what problem you are trying to solve in your specific BOW.

Does anyone know how many "pounds of O2" per part per million per acre-foot of water? If I can get that number, then I will know if I can "make it work" for Tracy.

Basic math is this:

Three acre feet of water on the surface. Paddle wheels add 4.5 to 5.5 pounds of O2 per HP per hour. So that is easy enough to calculate what one HP running for 10 hours would add. If that is enough to add say 3-4 PPM to those three acre feet of water, then Tracy is in with solar, but it won't be cheep, but it will be worth it.

So calling all smart people with lots of information to comb through!!! Please validate or correct my math below.

What I have found is 1PPM per million gallons of water equals 8.345 pounds. If that holds for O2, then in three acre-feet of water to raise the O2 4ppm Tracy needs to add about 33.334 pounds of oxygen per night and that is doable with a one HP paddle wheel in eight hours of running. If I am right, in ten hours of running Tracy should be able to add 45- 55 pounds of O2 which should solve his O2 issue easily. Now back to vacation....

Here's a great old thread with George and HF:

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=416416

It is a good thread, with some valuable information. Todd Overton recommended the aeration system for Georges pond. Todd has also made recommendations for my pond.

In looking back. the main problem at my pond was due to excess vegetation and several cloudy rainy days. I don't plan on going back there with all that vegetation but I did not plan on going there in the first place. My attempt here was to inform as many people as possible on what I experienced and maybe come up with a solution as to how to overcome that situation should it ever happen again. In my conversation with Bob Lusk, he said " I bet the vegetation came on fast didn't it"? Yes it did!