Background: New 1/2 acre pond 15ft deep on deepest end in Alabama, dug last year. Finally filled but was losing water at 2in per day. Applied soilfloc in March. Reduced leakage to 1/2in a day. Applied another dose 3 days before stocking last week. Reduced leakage to 1/4in a day. Pond is surrounded by food plots that get fertilized and limed twice a year. Soil test for food plots stated the ph was at 6. I used a ph test strip for the pond water and it reads 7. Pond is muddy. Always has been. Around 10in visibility. Stocked 500 BG, 50 SC, and 1200 FHM. Bass are coming in June. I need help figuring out what is killing my fish before I stock the bass. I see schools of FHM in the evening at the surface. They don't seem to be affected or I can't see the dead. Pond is full of tadpoles. No turtles or any other fish in pond. I have an aerator system on order. Yesterday I put a hose with 1/16 inch holes drilled down 25ft of it and sunk it just to get some movement and air in. I don't know if I have an oxygen problem, just wanted to try something while waiting on my system. Water seems healthy except for being muddy. No scum or vegetation. I scoop the dead fish out daily.
I'm clueless. All I can imagine is the soilfloc is killing a few a day. Any ideas?

Be carful with the air system when first starting it up. I realize that your home-made system may or may not be moving the same amount of water that a store-bought system would, but you are supposed to bring those up gradually. If you just turn it on, you will likely be bringing up deep waters that are void of 02 and will also have toxins in them.

My GUESS is that you are losing some fish due to the stress associated with transferring them into the pond. And, you may have added to the stress by mixing up the pond waters. The fish go from one type of water/pond being jarred around in transit, all the while using up the 02 in the containers and soiling it with there urine and feces, then go into your pond waters. Temperature changes often occur during this process, then to add to it an aerator changes the water conditions(02 levels, temperature, biologics, and chemistry)yet again.

How deep is your aeration hose?

Did the aeration system cause a septic smell?

Are there any signs of illness on the fish (dead or alive)? (spots, fungus, white blotches, swollen gills, etc)

Did the aeration system cause a septic smell anytime after start-up?

Did you acclimate the fish slowly to get them used to the different water chemistry and temperature while stocking?

Answers to these questions will help the forum help you.

All I can suggest is the you keep a count on the dead fish so you know how many to replace and as far as the aeration is concerned..that's a toss-up. Did it do any harm? If so, is the worse behind you? I can't say for sure. If it is in shallow water then it's not a strong risk, but if it's in deep water (the lower 2/3rds or 1/2), it could be bringing up nasty waters and should be turned off and/or moved to the shallows.

Good points on the aeration. I just started it yesterday after lunch. It is in the deep part of the pond. I only ran it for 30min at a time and only about 5 times total so far. It gave off no smell. The pond is new, so I don't think there is much decaying muck on the bottom. I've been loosing fish since last Wednesday when I stocked them, at a rate of 10 per day. I let them acclimate for 15 min in their bags before releasing. I expected to loose some from stress the 1st couple days, but didn't think it would continue for a week. I'll have to inspect the fish better for the points you questioned.

There should not be any significant amount of toxins to kill fish in a new pond. I used an aerator in my newish pond and no dead fish.

I missed the "new pond" part, but deeper waters would be void of O2 and by mixing it up too fast would reduce the O2 per volume of water. But, it starting to sound like you are experiencing something else. Stress can easily cause illness to take hold...definitely look over the conditions of the dead fish and maybe even trap/net some lives ones.

I just got a response from the fish hatchery that the amount I'm losing is not acceptable. That they think their bluegill was sick from the pollen this year and they will replace or refund me for them.

Hi Jason:

Glad to hear the polymer treatment was successful - that's what I love to hear! Congratulations on the recent fish stocking also - now the fun begins.

I've witnessed some small fish [fatheads, small BG] suffocate due to polymer coating gills in windblown corners of ponds immediately following treatment [within 1-2 hours], but typically less than a dozen fish if any at all. The polymer sinks pretty quickly, within a few hours the window of risk is over as the polymer becomes part of your main basin/sidewall soil structure. If gill coating was responsible you'd see all the fish at once, not a few daily.

I suspect your BG morts are due to some stressed fish responding negatively to some other environmental factor - change in water chemistry, temps, low DO, or perhaps the fish were pretty stressed upon stocking. Thankfully you're dealing with just a few BG and they are cheap and easy to replace, but losing fish is still always a bummer - I've killed more fish than I can remember, unfortunately.
Feel free to contact me anytime I'll help however I can.

Congrats again on getting your leak issues under control and launching your fishery.

TJ

That pollen will get them every time......


Glad they are being replaced, but it wasn't the pollen. Likely handling stress and stocking them shortly after applying the soilfloc.

Who were the fish from ? How long had they been out of the hatchery (in truck)? Doubt it is your water but rather stressed fish. Glad they will replace - a good sign.

Alabama fish and pond. I just emailed them and asked if I should be seeing this kinds of numbers daily. They said no and took the responsibility whether it was really theirs or not. If it was sick fish on delivery then that is fine by me, but if there is something wrong with my pond, then I need to get it taken cared of before I put the bass in in June.
The fish truck said they would be at the store for 2:30. I got there a bit earlier and they were already there so i don't think they were there long. Within 30min of paying for fish, bagging them and the drive home, the bags were in the pond in the shade acclimating for 15 min. The fish truck may have had close to an hour drive to the feed store.

I took 15 dead fish out this morning. I see some more floating now.

I may have missed it, but how often do you test your water? Do you see trends in DO, TDS, EC, Temp, pH, Ammonia, Nitrite,Phosphate, etc? No offense but spending thousands on a pond and fish and not testing the water at frequent intervals is a recipe for disaster.

I tested my water for two years before the first FHM ever wet a fin in it. I continually test my water and log it on an Excel spreadsheet. To date, I have yet to have a dead fish.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and a heck of a lot cheaper.

How do I test for all of that? Is there a test kit with everything included that I need?

I will tell you testing pond water is pretty much a waste of time. Tested mine just for kicks and nothing exciting came about. That was the last time. I don't lose sleep over minor things. My fish are still alive and well. I've kept fish for most of my life and never did I test aquarium water except for ammonia. Rarely did I have any fish die. I have done aquaponics and the only time my Tilapia died was due to high ammonia. Do you think mother nature test her ponds, lakes and oceans? Let mother nature take care of herself when it comes to water chemistry. Don't lose sleep over ph, etc. Just enjoy your pond!

Curious, what do you base your speculation that polymer use influenced, or played a role in the fish mortality? Is it based on your personal experience losing fish following the use of polymers to seal ponds? If so, please share your experience - this would serve as new science for the forum as I've never witnessed a fish kill event days after pond treatment in over 150 projects. I always remain open to new feedback on polymer use and their influence/effect on fisheries.

It could well be how the fish were handled going IN to the truck as well, you just never know for sure.
One other item I've seen in the past is tank cleaning agent that doesn't get properly rinsed from tanks, mainly bleach compounds with the current day concerns of invasive species.
It can happen..

I've been communicating with the hatchery. They are willing to replace my fish but said they haven't had any other complaints form customers. They suggested I get a water test, just to be sure, before they replace my fish so I don't lose them as well. What ever route I decide, they will replace them regardless of the out come. They seem to be great people and really want me to have a successful pond.
What I don't understand is if it was a handling issue, will I still be loosing fish daily a week later? I guess they could have developed a sickness from the stress and now the sickness is taking its toll. I pulled a total of 20 dead fish from the pond just from yesterday. It's really upsetting. I'll call the extension service today to see what I need to do to get a water sample tested.

What is your total BG loss as of today? I think a water test should be sent in, but that takes time... You can get https://www.amazon.com/API-POND-MASTER-Water-500-Test/dp/B0002DJNN0 and do some yourself. But I would still send in a water sample.

and

https://www.amazon.com/API-STRIPS-Water-Strips-25-Count/dp/B000K0QFKE

I use both

Jason

I wouldn't stress on your water quality...I've lost fish many times in exactly this scenario you're describing and it was due to handling , transport, and stocking stress [early career mistakes]...had new morts daily popping up and it had me all colors of freaked out. I'm 99.9999% certain a fresh batch of BG will be just fine provided you temper them appropriately into your pond to eliminate chemistry and temperature shock. The fact your hatchery didn't seem surprised you had morts suggests to me they've been having similar problems with other customers lately - so I wouldn't lose sleep over the BG issues.

Lastly, consider pushing your LMB stocking until the Autumn or 2020 to allow your BG and FHM to proliferate and provide an ample forage base leading to quick LMB growth. Call anytime we can walk through all this stuff together.

I have never understood the aversion to testing water quality? I enjoy sitting on the banks of my lake and during that time, I test the water. I am a firm believer in knowledge. I can't change mother nature but I can gain some insight.
Do you phosphates and ammonia increase after a heavy rain? Do your total dissolved solids go through the roof? If you don't know the answers to the basic questions of an ecosystem you are trying to manage, you aren't a very good manager.
For less than 100 bucks you can buy a pond test kit, a digital thermometer that will give you temps to 25' and a TDS meter. A DO meter is expensive but I use a 30 dollar test kit with 50 tests.
I spend 50-100 dollars a year tracking my water, all while sitting in the serene environment of its shores. My fish kill is zero. Seems like a good deal.

On the subject of water quality, I would think the extremely muddy conditions could be a stressor to newly stocked fish. Do you know why the water is so muddy and are you doing anything to correct the problem? Have you performed the jar test? The jar test is simply taking a large jar full of the pond water and placing it in the dark for a few days to see if the "mud" will settle out.

You stated your FHM are doing fine. FHM are extremely hardy and can survive in very poor quality water.

JQ - We all have different levels of pond management drive. No real right or wrong level, just what an individual wants to do. I would venture to say 90% + of private ponds nationwide have 0% management. Everyone who comes to this site is making a conscious effort to improve their body of water. To me that is a mark in the plus column for overall environmental consciousness and respecting the land.

You're probably right, Roundy. In my defense, my lake is way more than a personal fishing hole. When people see it for the first time, the first question is, "Can we swim in it?" the second is, "Are there fish in it?"
My lake is made for recreation, swimming, kayaking, jet skis, cliff diving, etc. Fishing is just a bonus. I don't want someone I love going home sick because I didn't know my lake was safe for swimming.
I don't manage my water at all, I manage the influences on my water. That way, when I retire, I won't have a job of managing something that is meant solely for enjoyment.

No harm - no foul JQ. I love forums for learning about most any hobby, but I see that all types are here to enjoy fellowship and learn. Not many absolutes in pond miestering, as they mostly say "it depends." You're a welcome addition and look forward to hearing more in the future on your project.

about 125 as of today dead.

Thanks. Just ordered one.

Take some photos of fresh morts and post. Any signs of fungus? Red areas around fins indicating stress?

The forum is comprised of thousands of long time pond owners/managers and dozens of pond management pros and fish biologists as well who manage vast private water and are aware that water chemistry influences a fishery - we wouldn't be successful otherwise. I'm uncertain where you sense an "aversion" to water chemistry tests from these posts - we embrace science on the forum and understanding the chemical characteristics of one's water is essential. What I see in this thread are posts trying to help walk Jason through the likely causes of the BG kill event - and in my case, I'm citing years of management experience on my own 7 ponds and dozens more I manage professionally. This includes managing [stocking/culling] millions of BG, whether I like it or not.

It appears you've been managing your fishery for a couple years - congrats and I hope things go well and it's great you found the forum. When you've been at it a wee bit longer you might face some similar challenges - although ag runoff clay ponds behave significantly differently that deep quarry ponds - far less volume of water means far less tolerances for errors. I learned early that legit challenges occur once a fishery carrying capacity is approached and ponds become increasingly eutrophic - that's when the real learning begins. While we should probably focus on Jason's fishery, I encourage you to think about interpreting the data you're collecting: how does increased phosphorous impact your fishery, specifically, considering it's a quarry pond and likely doesn't pose the same potential vegetation growth issues? Considering the volume of water you manage [87' max depth], what steps could you feasibly fiscally execute to impact the water chemistry in the event of an emergency [low DO levels, high phosphorous/dense planktonic algae blooms]? It's one thing to measure water chemistry, it's another to interpret the data and how it will impact water QUALITY and fishery performance. Thankful for our experts on the forum who can help us with that - they've taught us all quite a bit - still lots more to learn - that's why we subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine.

Embrace the honeymoon phase of fishery/pond management - I miss the easy breeze of those first few seasons when fish just grew - regardless of the frequency of testing my water chemistry.

I doubt it also, Eric, but still looking forward to the test results.

I apologize, Teehjaeh57. Considering the OP's latest die off, I am sure either he or the supplier will test the water. We can wait until then to discuss this further.
How about a wager? If it is water quality, you buy me a 1 year subscription. If it is anything but water quality, I'll buy you a 1 year subscription.

And the loser from that wager buys me a 1 year subscription! lol

JQ, I don't want to peel off topic here, but like TJ, I've been down this road a few times myself, I'm going into my 29th year of handling fish and public fisheries. I can count WAY more issues with improper fish handling than I've ever seen with water quality issues but without being there, seeing how the fish are being handled, we assume things are in order but maybe they aren't.
Most of all, let's hope the OP gets things under control but I'm leaning hard in the direction of a handling issue-just seen it too many times.

Todays 17 that I pulled out this morning.

WHen I lost some due to handling they had a green fungus growing on them. Yours don't have that appearance.

Got my water test kit in today.
ph 7.5
ammonia .10
Nitrite 0
Phosphate 0

Jason the bg in your photos have very large eyes for their body size-appear stunted to me, but I don’t know what size fish you stocked. I’d consider requesting a cash refund and contacting American Sportfish for bg stocking.

There’s just no substitute for real life experience, is there?

They do look abnormal. They don't look like that on the live ones. Its just how they get as they rot. Its getting hot down here quick.

First, let me apologize for my perceived inexperience. I certainly do not mean to overstep any boundaries. I am just trying to help.

I am going to assume you used the API Freshwater Test Kit another member linked. That means your ammonia is 0.1ppm (mg/L). If my lake tested that, I would be alarmed. It is mitigated somewhat by your pH but interpreting ammonia readings is also temperature dependent. Can you measure the temperature?

Ammonia exists in two forms in the water, NH3(unionized ammonia) and NH4+(ionized ammonia). NH3 is toxic to fish at >0.03 mg/L (ppm). NH4 is relatively harmless. The ratio of concentration of each is pH and temperature dependent. The higher the pH and or temperature, the more of the NH3 will be present.

Now that you have a test kit, perhaps taking measurements at various points of the day may show a rising pH and temperature at a certain time of day, thus raising your NH3 to dangerous levels for short periods?

Tj, I thought the same thing, stunted/older fish. Glad to see I was not the only one thinking that.

Hatchery may be dumping runts/poor performing fish in the Spring...we see it a lot from hatcheries nationwide - buyers need to beware getting stuck with age 1 runts. Without knowledge of size or appearance at point of stocking we can't assume that's what happened here - but it's still something for us to keep an eye out for. That's what we are here for - helping pondmeisters to navigate the unknown waters and be successful. Again, I strongly recommend sourcing fish from American Sportfish - Bob Lusk recently merged with them and they have a hard earned reputation for raising healthy fish with excellent genetics. Shawn McNulty is one of US - if you know what I mean - I trust him and his staff 100%.

American Sportfish
8007 Troy Highway
Pike Road, Alabama 36064
Phone: 334-281-7703

Yes I used the api test kit posted above. The last time I checked my temps, they were close to 75-76F 1ft below the surface in about 6ft of water in full sun. The test kit for ammonia had 2 color samples. One for 0.0 and one for .25. My color was in between so I just estimated it at .1 to write something in my records as a reference. I have no way to be exact.
Thanks for everyones opinions. I really appreciate all the help. Please continue. I'm a sponge at this point. The hatchery is wanting to give me 200 replacement fish on Monday. They are saying they see no problems with this new batch and I should be fine. Should I ask for a refund instead? They are about 45 min away I think and will stop by my feed store which is less than 15 min away.

Good points. I think it would have been easier to by another boat!

Considering your water temperature is 75/76F, your pH is 7.5 and your measured ammonia is 0.1, your NH3 (unionized toxic ammonia), by my calculations would be about 0.002 mg/l.

Considering your test kits ability (tolerance), even a high end reading of, 78/7.8/0.25 would only calculate to a 0.009 NH3 concentration. Both below levels toxic to most fish (0.05 mg/l). However, this is only a snapshot in time.

Unfortunately you cannot measure Dissolved Oxygen, which would be another wildcard in your water quality. Are your fish lethargic? Laying on the pond bottom with clamped fins, or gasping at the water surface?

You can take a fresh dead fish and look for gill color and blood color. Red/Lavender gills may indicate high NH3 and brown blood would indicate high nitrates. Also, fraying of the fins, which I see in your last photo is a sign of high ammonia.

In my older post you may remember that I lost almost all of my adult bg around the first of the year. I bought 200 from american sportfish a few months ago to raise in a cage. I lost about 30 of them and most seemed to have a fungus. One of the larger ones had a fungus on his back when I picked them up. His dorsal fin was basically missing. I called ASF and they said it happens in cooler weather and rom being in the cage. I have raised them in a cage before without any issues. I think they were sick from the hatchery, but that is ok, things happen. The remaining ones are still in the cage and feeding and growing well.

The part about soil floc affecting them, I treated my pond with it and had huge success with stopping the leak. Thanks again tj. I did see some very small bg affected by it, but not enough to worry about. losing a few small bg was well worth it to seal the leak.

My pond hasn't bounced back from the loss of my adult bg. fish feeding is sluggish at the best. I see some adults, but not any monsters like I lost. Feeding is getting better daily and I see some on the bed. I will recover!!!

I have an aerator running for the last couple days. Since I started running it, I'm loosing a few less fish a day. Don't know if that is the reason or I just have fewer sick fish left. My water is muddy. Can only see about 10in deep. The pond is new and I just built a house next to it with no lawn yet. Still doing dirt work to fix the yard. I just spread hay where most of my run off goes into the pond. I do have grass starting to come up around the pond. 2 sides of the pond has thick clover food plots around it and the other is the dam. It's just the one side facing my yard that contributes to the mud. So with that said, I can't see my fish unless one comes to the surface. I see the FHM schools all the time. I put a jar of pond water in a dark place yesterday. My pond has always been muddy. Took a long time (8 months) to fill especially with the leak. Lots of up and down in water level until I fixed the leak in March. Then added another dose of soil floc 3 days before I stocked it April 24.

I've been reading up on clearing the water.

I remember soaking my fish bags thinking there wasn't enough water in the bag. Fish were fighting to get under water. Some was on their side on top of the other fish fighting to get down. The more I think about it the more I think they had pretty stressful circumstances. Or maybe I'm just wishful thinking because stressed fish is an easier fix than having bad pond water as long as I'm getting free replacement fish.

Fellow Snyper, If you stuck a jar in the dark yesterday, you should be able to see some sediment on the bottom today if it's a soil issue-may not be much but you should be able to see some particulates in the bottom. Don't shake it, just carefully look at bottom of jar.

Some of the farmers around here use hay bales to clear muddy water. They say, if you add a tablespoon of vinegar to your water sample and it clears up, the hay bales will work.
Maybe someone else has experience with this? I have just heard this at the honky tonk on a rainy day.

Just went do another water test. Had 1/2 in of rain today.

Water temp 76F
PH 7
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Phoshate 0 ppm

I went try to net a live one with no luck. I may throw the cast net tomorrow and get a pic for y'all to analyze. Today was the 1st day I seen them hit feed. I throw out feed every evening around the pond. Maybe just 2 cups total. I've only seen the minnows pecking at it before.

Got the new fish put in last Monday and only had a hand full of dead ones within a couple days. Probably still from the 1st batch. Hadn't had any die in the last few day. They are doing great and starting to hit feed.
Now I need to get my yard graded and grass planted to stop the muddy run off.
Been busy building structure with left over stuff from building my house.

Good to hear, Swamp. Glad the hatchery made it right with you.

Glad to hear. Keep monitoring the water. If you alkalinity is low adding some ag lime may help clear the water.