So ribbons started showing up in the pond yesterday when it got up to a whopping 45 degrees and bright sun. A foot of snow on the ground and the water temp is 43. They happen to be on the side where the sun shines the most, so the best I can figure is the water and soil on the bottom was warm enough for them.
Crazy buggers.
It probably isn't going to be warm enough for the fry for another month!
The eggs will develop and hatch slowly when water is in the 40's. Thanks for the update of YP egg laying. I will start looking closer for egg ribbons.
Hello.
Here there is still a lot of ice, but it is thin, last night with a spot I saw some big Yellow perch get closer to the edge.
A+
Pond locked up with ice again last night, and most ponds in the area still have quite a lot of ice cover. The sun is strong this time of year, so I find it interesting the perch couldn't wait a little longer. It is not predicted to be above freezing for another 10 days, but plenty of sun. It will likely warm the water quite a lot despite the cold.
My thermometer still says 45 degrees. Cloudy and cold, but one perch has laid the first ribbon at our place this year. I think it's earlier than last year, which was a much warmer winter/spring. This one ribbon was on the dam. It's the north end of the pond, but gets the most sun.
Article in the current PB mag on YP spawning and early growth.
SetterGuy, DING DING, here comes the next generation of striped fuselage YP!! Way to go!
I wonder if the oak leaves do something to get the perch to spawn early. I know they are brown and probably attract heat but so are the maple leaves. I have heavy layer of oak leaves in the shallows of my pond and they tend to put the eggs right on the oak leaves way in the shallow water and swim right by the branches that I nicely left for them.
We have had very nice sunny days, a bit brisk with the wind and cold nights. I'm hoping the YP will hold off a bit yet but I expect I'll see a ribbon in the next 7days if this weather holds up. We would be early too if we get them before April 1st.
I had around 20 YP in the warm shallows of my pond yesterday, sunning themselves over leaf piles - no ribbons yet. I'll get some surface temp readings next time I'm down there
SetterGuy, DING DING, here comes the next generation of striped fuselage YP!! Way to go!
I wonder if the oak leaves do something to get the perch to spawn early. I know they are brown and probably attract heat but so are the maple leaves. I have heavy layer of oak leaves in the shallows of my pond and they tend to put the eggs right on the oak leaves way in the shallow water and swim right by the branches that I nicely left for them.
We have had very nice sunny days, a bit brisk with the wind and cold nights. I'm hoping the YP will hold off a bit yet but I expect I'll see a ribbon in the next 7days if this weather holds up. We would be early too if we get them before April 1st.
CC, I hope I'm getting good recruitment from these YP ribbons. I'm a little concerned that the fry really get hammered by the GSH. Would it be a good idea to put screens around the ribbons for a while? I've just been letting nature take its course for the last three springs. Seems like I'm getting more HBG (which I hoped wouldn't reproduce) and GSH, than I am catching YP. I remove every HBG I catch.
Just wondering if there's anything I can do to help survivability of the YP fry. Unfortunately they are laying these ribbons as far as they can from all the structure I've put in the pond.
I have a digital thermometer at the farm. I'll lay that in next to the ribbon and see what the water temp is right there. I'll bet it is warmer on those oak leaves. They ignore my branches also.
Ewest, I got my latest issue of PB mag yesterday. I hope to have time to actually read some of it tonight.
Thx,
Jeff
For sure, get that thermometer right at the ribbons and see if there is a temp difference. I can only speculate but it seems that water temp and sun exposure is part of the equation but I had ribbons in the mesh of one of my taller pyramid/dome style minnow nets. It was as if the perch wanted to swim into or over something that the eggs could get snagged on and help pull them out? I wonder if that is why the assumption is that branches are what they are preferring since some ribbons are found draped on branches. I wonder if somehow the oak leaves are stiff enough that they can snag the ribbon on the leaf and wiggle around and have the ribbon come out better. Imagine having to get that huge ribbon out of a tiny hole and you might wish you had a suction pump or something to snag it on so you could swim the opposite way and get the egg laying over with in a hurry too..
Bill C might know if the GSH eat the eggs before they hatch (never heard that) or if the fry are consumed by the GSH.
It would be fairly easy to put a mesh around a few egg ribbons to see if protecting them helps.
Fish are not eating the YP eggs as my experience and shown by research in the current article by ewest in the Mar-Apr PBoss magagine. Newly hatched fry are very tasty and vulnerable to all sorts of critters that can locate the fry. Fry when they 1st wiggle out of the egg encasement will rest on the bottom for a short period before becoming free swimming. When free swimming I think the fry move to open water for a few weeks where they are again vulnerable to open water (pelagic) predators.
Hello.
A good answer from Mr.Cody.
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Yes GSH and other small fish will eat the yellow perch fry until the fry get too big to fit into the mouth of the predator. However depending on the number of fry, number of shiners, and amount of cover all will govern the survival rate of the YP fry. A large number of adult shiners could easily and significantly reduce the recruitment of YP. This is the situation of Dono from Ontario who has lots of shiners (common and emerald) and his YP recruitment is quite low. I have common numbers of spotfin shiners, but not as abundant and I have good recruitment of YP.
I'm sorry if I gave you all the impression I was worried that the eggs were getting eaten. I was, and still am concerned the the fry are getting eaten pretty quickly by the GSH. (Not the eggs)
Not really sure there's much I can do about it. I may cut some cedar branches and lay them in next to the ribbons. Three years ago I had more ribbons than I could count. Last year I had maybe 20. I'll be back up Friday to see how many I'm getting this year. So far it's just the one.
Thanks for all the info. I will get an accurate temp on Friday.
IMO - The most effective thing you can do to reduce predation of the fry is to reduce the number of fry predators - shiners.
IMO - The most effective thing you can do to reduce predation of the fry is to reduce the number of fry predators - shiners.
They have been hitting small jigs. I won't be putting any back. I thought my SMB would control them, plus some HSB. The GSH have been in three years, the (25) HSB and (60) SMB for two and a half yrs. (pond is a little less than an acre.)
We've kept two of the SMB that were caught by grandkids, and considered the largest fish ever seen.
I've put out traps over the years. Used to catch FHM. Lately I mostly catch small HBG, which may be evolving to GSF.. (as I also added 250 HBG 2+ yrs ago) I've been working hard to remove all the HBG I can. I am kicking myself for ever adding any.
If you are catching numerous HBG in traps that is a good indication that they are likely significantly reducing the numbers of small YP in the 1/2" to 1" sizes. They are aggressive with large appetites. If you think the recruitment of YP is low, consider doing some ladder stocking of 5"-7" YP to bolster their population so the number of egg ribbons are plentiful until you get the HBG population significantly reduced and you begin to see 3"-5" YP in the catches/sampling.
I was, and still am concerned the the fry are getting eaten pretty quickly by the GSH. (Not the eggs)
Not really sure there's much I can do about it.
Yes you can habituate them in place using a blocking net or ridged plastic fencing. Pick an area where the YP place ribbons. Back seine it from shore out with a blocking net and set the net. Then place branches inside the net and add YP ribbons. It wont eliminate all or most of the pond wide predation but will help increase YP numbers.
Thank you Bill and Eric! I like having plans and goals. Got a lot of sun today. I'll see how many ribbons are out on Friday.
Thanks again,
Jeff
Thank you Bill and Eric! I like having plans and goals. Got a lot of sun today. I'll see how many ribbons are out on Friday.
Thanks again,
Jeff
Seems like it was only yesterday I was pulling ribbons out of my hauling tanks from fish going into your pond
Jeff, you stocked YP pretty densely at my suggestion because of predation concern, and to be able to maintain a reproducing YP population. How readily are you catching YP, and how many are 7 inches or smaller? I guess you're no longer concerned all your shiners comitted suicide in the landscape netting...lol
As I recall from his prior posts he harvested some adult YP last year. Likely there should be a significant reduction of smaller HSB and or shiners if both are abundant.
Jeff, you stocked YP pretty densely at my suggestion because of predation concern, and to be able to maintain a reproducing YP population. How readily are you catching YP, and how many are 7 inches or smaller? I guess you're no longer concerned all your shiners comitted suicide in the landscape netting...lol
Rex, I did harvest some adult YP last year. About 40 all together. That's down from 50-60 the year before. The HBG attack every bait that's thrown in. We stocked 1200 YP over the years. I'm sure some didn't make it, but there has to be some left. I remember being so shocked when I saw 100s of GSH tangled in the grass nets. I was so careful to cut each one out, trying to save them all. They are getting pretty big now! And there's a bunch of them.
I'm up at the pond now. Two more ribbons, so now there are three. I laid the temp probe in the water right next to the ribbon. 48.3 degrees by one, 46.7 next to another. I did not put in the screen around the ribbons. I'm thinking it's still early, and I'll hopefully get more ribbons.
Here's the last two ribbons.
Three of four more ribbons this morning. I guess they are starting to kick in. I won't be back for a while, so I'm going to cut some cedar branches, and sink them by the ribbons.
We have rain in the forecast for four of the next five days, so it will probably go just like last year. My pond will rise three or four feet after all the ribbons have been laid. No point in putting down screens, they will be way under water.
Hope submerging the ribbons doesn't effect the survival of the fry.
Also, lots of action when the feeder goes off, some pretty big swirls and splashes. The SMB are getting bigger, and maybe there are some HSB in there. 25 stocked in Oct of 2015, have never seen one since. (Up close.)
Lots of 2-3" narrow bodied fish pushing the feed around. I have a hard time imagining the FHM are still in there, but it's either them, or the GSH. I'll put a trap or two out, and see what I get. If they are GSH, I guess I'll use them for raccoon bait.
In my pond the narrow minnnows that push the feed around are the GSH. Excellent forage and the HSB and SMB hopefully will eventually keep them in check.
Awesome that you have more ribbons. It only takes 1 ribbon that has good viability of fry to give your pond more than enough YP for that year.
Yellow perch ribbons receiving more water over them only slightly slows the development of eggs. More impact of egg hatching is increased silt in overlying water which when it settles on the ribbons tends to smother eggs and decrease optimum water circulation and oxygenation.
Thank you gents. I was thinking the GSH were the ones pushing the feed around. I saw FHM early in the summer last year, but they were getting harder to find. Lots of YP, HBG, SMB, and maybe some HSB to work on those FHM. I guess even the GSH probably go after FHM. If I've got enough YP to keep them coming, and I suspect I do, I'll leave the GSH alone.
Thanks again.
Jeff
I'm thinking the cedar branches will attract more ribbons, at the very least. Maybe even help the fry.
Pic of cedar branches next to a ribbon.
Even more have shown up, 42 degree water but a lot of bright sunshine in the past several days. Upper teens at night. Counted 32 ribbons in a variety of places.
Have see no ribbons yet in central Indiana, but we are getting the worst snowstorm of the Winter starting now. Spring peeper were singing yesterday. Temperatures predicted in the 50's by Tuesday. Guess that is just March in the Midwest.
RAH, I have been seeing Perch ribbons for better than a week here in east central Indiana.
Gary - Maybe mine are putting the ribbons where I cannot see them, or maybe there are no breeders left (doubtful)? Not sure what effect the GSH are having in my mix of fish either? The SMB should be well fed either way. Enjoy the snow!
We just lost our ice here in Ontario. It was -9 Saturday night here.
Having a warm rain event right now so I should get our branches placed in the pond.
Cheers Don.
First perch ribbon, yee haa! Two days ago, in the exact same corner of the pond as last year and almost the same date (last year it was 2 days later). It was wedged under a pack of oak leaves as if the perch backed in under the pile and then swam out. It was in 6" of water. THe egg ribbon was starting to get leaves on it so I gently fluffed and swished it in the water and laid it in a little deeper water. Will be watching for more soon but we have a nasty cold rainy snowy front coming through today so I doubt we'll see more ribbons this weekend.
Hello.
A little glimpse over the year, I don't find notes for the last years.
Perch spawn, the beginning.
2005= 20 April, water 48F
2006= 10 ... , ... 47F
2007= 20 ...
2008= 20 ... , ... 50F
2009= 14 ...
2010= 2 ... , ... 52F
2011= 16 ..., ... 43F
2012= 1 ...
2013= 6 ..., ... 48F
2014= 12 ..., ... 50F
2015= 5 ... , ... 49F
A+
Good water temperature data for seeing yellow perch egg ribbons in Quebec. Thanks. My first YP egg ribbons are seen at the very same range of water temperatures.
first year for the YP to lay ribbons in my newer pond. Seen 4 ribbons this morning. 3 on the south end on a shallow flat and one towards the NE corner. All were on Christmas trees. My cheap thermometer said 40 degree water temps on top.
Back at our pond today. We had a 3.5” rain that must have come down in a very short time. My water level has come up almost 3’. Still 18” to full, but it looks better.
Unfortunately the water temp has dropped with the additional water, and lower temps.
Now is 42 degrees. No ribbons can be found. Not sure how many ribbons I ended up with, and they are all 3’ deep now.
Anyone know if YP will lay any additional ribbons after they’ve started and stopped? I’m guessing they are done.
Thx.
Spawning of YP should continue with an increase of water level. They will seek places to drop the eggs. It is hard to hold back Mother Nature.
Spawning of YP should continue with an increase of water level. They will seek places to drop the eggs. It is hard to hold back Mother Nature.
That’s great to hear. Hope they continue.
Thx!
Hwllo.
Well if winter is prolonged, it means bigger eggs, here they are going to be big, we are 9 April and there is still lots of ice, it is still very cold.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/cl...breed-1.3178898A+
That article also said the YP spawn at the same time of year, without respect to temperatures......seemed to me the thust of that CBC article was pushing climate change more than it was about hard facts and dissertation observations that seem to defy many other(less biased?)scientific observations...
From the original sources
"Although climate warming is expected to benefit temperate ectotherms by lengthening the summer growing season, declines in reproductive success following short, warm winters may counter such positive effects. Here we present long-term (1973–2010) field patterns for Lake Erie yellow perch, Perca flavescens, which show that failed annual recruitment events followed short, warm winters. Subsequent laboratory experimentation and field investigations revealed how reduced reproductive success following short, warm winters underlie these observed field patterns. Following short winters, females spawn at warmer temperatures and produce smaller eggs that both hatch at lower rates and produce smaller larvae than females exposed to long winters. Our research suggests that continued climate warming can lead to unanticipated, negative effects on temperate fish populations."
Well, if short warm winters are a detriment to perch spawning, this year should be spectacularly productive! Snowed three days in a row now, in early April! We had ice on the pond yesterday morning with a low of 18 degrees. Please make it stop.
The ribbons are still there, but I worry that they will fail as they are getting coated with sediment. Too cold to progress.
This weekend it is supposed to warm up a lot, but it is on a razor's edge as the warm front will be draped overhead. The north side gets the 40's, the south the 70's. It wont be the first time our house sits in warmth where only 1/4 mile away is stuck in the cold on the north side. Based on our depressing weather trend, I have little hope we will exceed 50 degrees this weekend. The forecast keeps flip-flopping between pure trash and beautiful.
For me the key is what level of population variation exists to adapt to changing climate. Clearly YP populations exist in very different climates so the species as a whole is adaptable. If winters become routinely warmer, will those individuals that do well under such conditions fuel a population recovery?
Climate change is inevitable and has been doing so since the earth formed. This is a basic fact and is well represented in the fossil record and in the evolution of species. Adapt or go in the waste bin ash heap of history. Change is dynamic with many uncertainties especially as it relates the interaction of species. Change is multifaceted and not linier.
The ability to adapt to local circumstances is called phenotypic plasticity and is discussed here
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post450474 . Phenotypic plasticity refers to some of the changes in an organism's behavior, morphology and physiology in response to a unique environment.[1] Fundamental to the way in which organisms cope with environmental variation, phenotypic plasticity encompasses all types of environmentally induced changes (e.g. morphological, physiological, behavioral, phonological) that may or may not be permanent throughout an individual's lifespan.
Both heritable adaptation (evolution) and the ability of individuals to physiologically adapt to environmental conditions (phenotypic plasticity) certainly come into play. And then there are heritable temporal changes in gene expression in response to environmental factors (epigenetics). Biology sure is interesting!
The real question is how fast can adaptations be made. Majority of dinosaurs couldn't do it, leaving only birds since they could quickly move to more hospitable climates.
The claim right now is the climate is changing too fast for the ecosystem and adaptations to play catch-up, resulting in some serious problems for wildlife. Yes, the only outcome will be those that can adapt or move to where survival is possible. Personally I don't know what will happen, and I don't want to get into R&P land, I just don't like what I am experiencing. Warm air pumps all the way to the poles, displacing this cold crap, making me miserable.
It snowed again, hard, this afternoon and it wasn't supposed to.
Hello.
I don't know if Yellow perch in florida are spawning at the same temperature as here around 48-50F.
A+
I am not aware of YP in Fla. A recent issue of PB mag has an article on YP spawning and early growth.
We are finding that adaptation in fish can occur very rapidly in some situations. Much faster than I used to believe possible.
I would venture a guess that a body of water containing high genetic diversity would be much better able to adapt than say a pond with a single genetic source for stocking. Chances of having a genetic trait that makes an organism better able to tolerate extreme conditions would seemingly be better.
Intentionally stocking a bow with fish from various regions and sources may give the best results, but also add considerable risk to introducing disease.
I am not aware of YP in Fla. A recent issue of PB mag has an article on YP spawning and early growth.
We are finding that adaptation in fish can occur very rapidly in some situations. Much faster than I used to believe possible.
Hello.
I don't know if Yellow perch in florida are spawning at the same temperature as here around 48-50F.
A+
48 degrees would be very nearly as low as the water temps would get in FL and not for very long. So they must be spawning at a higher temp.
Hello.
That's what I think, I just asked them (FWC).
A+
Hello.
Finally the ribbons.
Hello.
More,
Wow, awesome ribbons and lots of them. Yours look somewhat more white than ours and it seems some of your ribbons float spontaneously? My ribbons sink. Also the ones in the middle of the tree branches it appears the YP jumped out of the water to drape the ribbons over branches that are right at the surface!
I was thinking the same thing. Mine are always submerged.
I haven’t seen that many the last two years.
Our water came up a few feet, submerging the few ribbons I had. I never saw any additional ribbons.
Az - what are your current water temperatures? Cecil in northern Indiana says his newly hatched YP are now 1/2 long and growing fast in a small pond with a nice algae bloom..
Hello.
I have also ribbons at the bottoms attached to the plants.
I will remove all these ribbons with the branches and I will give the eggs to the cats.
They start spawning at 45F.
Now the water is 50F.
Here it's crazy everything change fast, we had a week at 70-73F.
another picture.
My perch have been quite delayed by chilly weather. It snowed 2 inches again yesterday, which is pretty sad for the end of April. Vegetation is almost 2 weeks behind now compared to last year that was two weeks early. I have not seen a single baby, and I have gin clear water (no bloom, but for my goals, that is a good thing!)
I am going to call the fish supplier this week for walleye to cut down on the perch numbers a bit. They are fat and happy, but the poor black crappie are getting out-competed so I would like a better balance.
Speaking of which, this time of year it seems the perch are REALLY hungry and not afraid of much (post spawn empties). They come right up to my hand to grab food. Some are pretty enormous and hurt when they do their attack flip. The herds follow the wife and I around the pond in hopes of being fed.
Just looking ahead to March and April. This will be the first spring in years that my POND will be full going into spring. Plus, since it was down 4-5’ all last summer, there’s lots of weeds that grew up along the banks, that are now under water. So, there’s lots of cover for ribbons and fry. Really hoping to get good perch recruitment this spring. Should I take screen and protect some of the ribbons to keep the GSH from working over the ribbons/fry?
Last two years, as soon as I’d start seeing a few ribbons, we would get a big rain or two, and the ribbons would be four feet deep, and in very little cover. I’m just 8” from overflow now. I suspect I’ll have a full pond in March.
I think I read here in the forum somewhere (maybe a Bill C comment) that other fish will not eat YP eggs in their ribbons. True?
Interesting read. I’m guessing the eggs themselves are safe. Now that I think back over the three springs my YP have been in, I don’t recall seeing a ribbon that had been torn up.
Maybe I just need to do a better job of protecting the fry.
Adult golden shiners I am sure will eat YP fry. How many get consumed will depend on abundance of adult GSH and amount of cover available for the fry. I think(?) YP fry after swim up move to open water for a few weeks. This will make them vulnerable to open water predators such as GSH.
Thanks Bill. Not much I can do about that. I guess my hope would be that the GSH that are going after my YP fry won’t be all that successful, and will become nutrition for the SMB, and some of my mythical HSB.
Jeff
Interesting read. I’m guessing the eggs themselves are safe. Now that I think back over the three springs my YP have been in, I don’t recall seeing a ribbon that had been torn up.
Maybe I just need to do a better job of protecting the fry.
Watch for the mallard ducks. They will eat the perch ribbons like they are candy. The little buggers get at the ones close to shore on us.
Cheers Don.
SetterGuy, will you use this thread to update your yp ribbons this year?I like hearing YP success stories from Missouri and other similar areas.
SetterGuy, will you use this thread to update your yp ribbons this year?I like hearing YP success stories from Missouri and other similar areas.
Absolutely. I’ll be up there a bunch this spring. It should be a good year for survival, if I get many ribbons. The pond is full, and for the first five feet along the bank, below the surface it’s great cover. Lots of tall weeds from last summer’s drought are just below the surface.
I was there yesterday. Water going out the overflow pipe with more coming in. The surface still has 2” of ice though. Might be a little later this year.
Picking up a TX feeder this week. Hope to keep the feed running this summer.
I had ice yesterday morning too, then 4" of warmish rain!
Good luck with your pond this year.
It is rare but in a late ice melt year, I had the first YP ribbons two days after complete ice melt that was in 2013 Mar 22.
If you don't mind, I'd like to post here as well when I start seeing ribbons also.
Yes, please post here or anywhere. Some of us could be 14 days away from perch ribbons. Looks like where Azteca lives last time it was around April 21!
If you don't mind, I'd like to post here as well when I start seeing ribbons also.
Heck Yes. Liquid Squid started this thread. Good info for everyone.
Wow guys we have 8"s of really good solid ice still on our pond in Southern Ontario Canada. Air station holes are only 10 feet across at best.
Well, last year I saw my first ribbon on the 18th. I was there last weekend and saw no ribbons. I’ll be at the pond again in the morning. We’ve had some slightly warmer and sunny days, including today. Hope to see some ribbons tomorrow.
We did fish last Sunday and caught 10-15 all male YP. My son didn’t want to keep any, so they were all released. I’m keeping any males I catch over the weekend. Pond is full, lots of weeds, and brush for ribbons. I’m hoping to have more than 3 or 4 ribbons this year. We also caught several GS on Sun and Mon, the smaller ones were released. I do have 1000% more FA than I’ve ever had, but I’ve never really had any before. With the pond up 4.5’ vs last year, and all that vegetation that grew up, under water, I’m guessing that has contributed to the added FA.
Also will get new TX Feeder set up tomorrow. Hope to check glass/Grass Shrimp population also.
Jeff
SetterGuy,
thanks for the update and thanks for keeping us posted on ribbons, what you catch, water conditions, and the grass shrimp population.
If you think of it, pack a thermometer (or get a $5 candy thermometer at walmart) and let us know what surface temps are in the shallows. If you have any sun action you will see a difference on the NE vs SW sides of the pond.
Hard to believe you had YP eggs on the 18th last year, that seems early, but like DONO said, I think we all are a little disoriented from the late blast of snow and cold we had. We still have 6" of ice floating in our pond but the edges are showing through. Last year the first ribbon if I recall was about 7-8 days from now in my pond.
We had the 'worm moon' earlier this week (big full moon that coincides with the spring equinox). Maybe this is the trigger that the YP wait for?
Setter - lots of FA will detract from the plankton density thus less foo food for fry survival. Not much quickly you can do about it. Just a bit of FYI and reference so you really don't want a large amount of YP eggs because most will starve when hatched. I expect eggs soon. Tomorrow I am going 120 mi south near Columbus OH to get YP and he usually has eggs 3rd week in March. I will report back.
Thanks Bill, I didn’t know FA would do that. Should I remove ribbons, if there’s more than a few this year? The FA is well below the surface. The weeds look clean where I can see them, but bringing in lures last weekend that had hit bottom, were almost always covered in FA. Will see soon enough if there’s any ribbons here.
SetterGuy, I would trust Bill's advice more than mine.
I can say, though, that with perch and GSH only in my pond that there hasn't been an overpopulation problem. I think DonoBBD said the same thing about his YP/shiners pond that it seemed to stay in balance.
I know the large adult YP will clean up on the YOY perch if they are available
People have proposed that GSH will eat the perch eggs but I have no idea if that is true.
At some point if your HSB don't make a showing then I'm guessing you would be ready to try to stock some HSB again? If the HSB will eventually be your main predator then they should also be able to make a dent in the small YP that will fit in their mouth. Stocking density of HSB will make a difference on the balance of predator/prey, but since you feed you can probably tolerate more YP eggs to grow up to be hungry momma perch.
I hope you have a good day at the pond today and keep us posted, send pictures!
No ribbons. Day started off with a dead battery in the tractor. Four hours later I was up and running. Lots of leaves and FA preventing me from seeing what’s going on, but I don’t think there are any ribbons yet.
Here’s a look at my shoreline. POND was down 4.5’ late last year. Now full. But while it was down weeds grew up in that gap between lower water level and full level. Now they are all under water. They’ve also grabbed a lot of leaves. Should I try to rake all this out? I thought it would provide good cover for fry, and eventually dissolve away.
Adult shiners in a perch(YP) pond will not eat the YP eggs but they will eat a lot of swim-up fry especially when the fry go to open water where they do go soon after swim-up. Removing egg ribbons is up to you and managing YP in your specific situation is a learning curve. Keep records of what you do so you have good reference info in future years to benefit your dedisions. Clear water will naturally limit fry survival. your water does not appear clear greater than 16"-20". A few predators in a smaller pond can eat a lot of fingerling YP. FA groupings near shore will allow lots of small invertebrate foods to develop to feed growing small fish. Do not remove all of it maybe just a measurable potion(%) of it.
Perch egg laying 120 miles south of me near Columbus OH has started last week Wed-Thur with just the first few ribbons showing up. One of the grower partners said he had quite a few ribbons as of Saturday but keep in mind he had about 6000 female perch as producers.
Thanks Bill. I’ll be back up later this week, or next weekend. The water temp at the spot I took the above picture was 54. Out off the dock about 4’ down it was 49. I’ll see how many ribbons I get, if I can see them.
I've got my tree branches out with water temp at 47 yesterday but I had some snow melt on frozen ground 10-12 days ago that dropped my visibility to near 6" and pond is up 2'. Tomorrow will be spent bringing water back to correct level.
I threw a cloverleaf trap out today for a few hours and had some shiners from 3-5" and really surprising numbers of very large adult fatheads. Just not seeing any ribbons yet and I'm on point to see the first...and the biggest..
I'll have to check latitude on that location Bill.. see where I fall in relation.
I’m located in west central Ohio, 5 minutes from Indiana line. Seen the first ribbon Saturday and another on Sunday. Both on south side of pond and one in dead grass in big branch I put in last year and another on a cmas tree. Not sure of water temp. My thermometer broke last year. Lake I was on had low to mid 40’s so guessing pond little warmer.
Also started feeding fish and they are hungry. Starting off slow with about 1/4 of why I’ll feed once warmer. Going to put trap out today to see what goes in. Plenty of shiners around and some fatheads still after couple years. Hoping the spotfin numbers are good that I got from your guy bill cody. Thanks again for the info on those.
I have perch eggs in NW Ohio - 8 ribbons this morning. Water temp 47F.
Well, I’m glad someone is seeing ribbons! Mine must be underneath the debris along the bank. (At least I hope so.)
Bill Thanks for the update! Glad to hear that we are right on the cusp of seeing eggs. I wonder if the photoperiod controls or water temps? If it is photoperiod then what state you are in shouldn't matter that much, but where you are in your timezone would matter.
If it is water temps then the southern states should be a week or two ahead. It looks like water temp has to do with it.
I still have 4" thick ice but softening edges. Do perch lay eggs under the ice???
Xraytrapper, great news that you have ribbons too! Let us know how your SFS are doing. I'm trying to get some set up in my pond and would love to know how to gauge success. So far I have not been able to establish FHM, too many hungry YP and not enough cover for the FHM. Hoping somehow the SFS can make it. They are very fast and strong swimmers compared to FHM.
None visible today west of Indianapolis.
48 degs..no ribbons visible. :-(
Holy CRAP! it's like they heard me talking!! First 2 ribbons this am...Yes!!
Snipe, go to google, and type in 'sunrise sunset' and then the name of your city. See what the total time is between sunrise and sunset. I know this isn't the exact amount of 'daylight' as light exists after sunset. But it should give us an idea.
I checked and we are at sunrise 7:34am and sunset at 8:02pm, what is that 12 hours and 28 minutes?
Yeah, we gage all of our walleye sets by this.. Today is 12:23.
We base our walleye sets on 12:15 regardless of water temp. Temp controls how soon we get ripe eggs but length of day puts them there.
Water temp this am was 45 degs.
Heading back today for 5 more days of WAE Eggs, I'll get some more pics for all on that thread!
Oops I had it wrong. Be careful to see how Google gives the dates and times. The numbers in my post above are flipped.
It should be, Sunset TONIGHT in GR, MI is 8:02pm, and sunrise tomorrow is 7:34am, that means we actually have LESS than 12 hours between those times, 11 hours and 32 minutes.
Looks like Kansas City, KS is sunset 7:36pm and sunrise tomorrow at 7:11 which is 25 min short of 12 hours (11hrs, 35min) You have 3 minutes more of sunlight, however at our house, the heavy grouping of trees on the west edge of the pond seems to block out the setting sun more effectively than those who have open fields to the west.
Hello.
March 26, here there is still ice on half of the pond, an the temperature of the water at 2 celsius, 34 Fahrenheit.
At night with my spot, I see a lot of small Yellow perch, and I see the big Yellow perch that begins to approach the edge.
Thank you canyoncreek.
A+
Exciting that you can see the big perch heading towards the shallows! keep us posted on your date of first ribbon sighting!
YEE HAA, the eagle has landed, (well actually I saw my first very tiny ribbon for 2019!!)
2017, March 27
2018, March 29
2019, March 26
Amazing how it is literally almost the same day every year. Same location too, SE corner of pond which gets more sun, about 8" deep and laying randomly on some oak leaves. there is about 5 feet of open water in the shallows and a big ice flow filling the middle and floating around. I guess as soon as there was open water the eggs were dropped.
Hoping we will see more this spring.
Setter guy, scrolling up to 2018 you had your first ribbons on the 22nd and 23rd. Are you later this year?
CC,
"Looks like Kansas City, KS is sunset 7:36pm and sunrise tomorrow at 7:11 which is 25 min short of 12 hours (11hrs, 35min) You have 3 minutes more of sunlight, however at our house, the heavy grouping of trees on the west edge of the pond seems to block out the setting sun more effectively than those who have open fields to the west."=12:25 daylight, actually the same Lat as me.
Exactly the same as here at Cedar Bluff res as well.
I wish I had YP around me that I could gage against the WAE timing.. Looks to be very similar.
YEE HAA, the eagle has landed, (well actually I saw my first very tiny ribbon for 2019!!)
2017, March 27
2018, March 29
2019, March 26
Amazing how it is literally almost the same day every year. Same location too, SE corner of pond which gets more sun, about 8" deep and laying randomly on some oak leaves. there is about 5 feet of open water in the shallows and a big ice flow filling the middle and floating around. I guess as soon as there was open water the eggs were dropped.
Hoping we will see more this spring.
Setter guy, scrolling up to 2018 you had your first ribbons on the 22nd and 23rd. Are you later this year?
Yep.. No ribbons yet, but I haven’t been up at the pond for two days. Might get up there Saturday. They could be there, just beneath the weeds. Hope so!
I found the first ribbons yesterday 3-27-2019. Water temperature was 52 degrees where the eggs were laid on the west shore. I am located just outside Fort Wayne IN.
Steve
I have my 2nd ribbon strand overnight. This time the strand is hooked around a small section of cedar (evergreen) branch that had broke off in a ice storm and was laying on the bottom. Same area, SE, sunny edge, same depth. The sun is feeling warm today so I'm sure water temps have come up yesterday and today against the brown/silty bottom with brown leaves covering it.
It seems the YP used the needles on the branch to help snag the eggs and pull them out as some of the egg strand is actually under the needles and some is draped over the top of the branch of needles.
Our water temp is at 35. The ice just left last night with the warm rain. No ribbons yet today.
First small YP ribbon this morning. Also saw a 10-11" bleached-out dead fish across the pond from the ribbon that looked like it might be a YP but could have been a LCS. Was too far out to fetch in with the sticks I found nearby, so I could not get a close look at it.
Kind of late reporting. Been too busy to get up to the pond. Work still getting in the way. We did have a .6” rain the other night (March 30th). I finally got back up here. And, yes I found two ribbons.
I’m hoping there’s more down below the debris along the bank. I walked it twice before dark, and only for under two.
I can’t remember, if there isn’t much white, is that good or bad? The two I found didn’t look all that healthy. Visibility in the pond, after this last rain is down to 12”. I was in such a hurry, I forgot my thermometer.
One ribbon..
Those ribbons look okay. I would rather see the ribbon stretched out rather than bunched-up together. Bunching reduces water flow/movement around and through the ribbon. If all fry that hatch survive you will have too many perch.
Ok, hopefully I’ll just get a reasonable, normal survival, and have just the right amount of fry.
Thx Bill
My water temp was 51 this am just about 30 min after sunrise and other than the first 2 ribbons last week, I have yet to see another.
I have about 50 tree limbs from shore out to 2.5'..
Concerned at this point knowing what I have for females.
Went to pond yesterday to look things over after the last couple of rains, and took a few pics to compare how much the pond had filled. I saw some whitish spots near the shore in the pics, so I enlarged it. Could these be YP ribbons? Water is muddy, but the shore area is where it would receive the most sun and is probably the shallowest part of the pond. When I stocked YP last fall there were several 6 to 8-inch individuals. Am I just seeing what I want to see or could they have spawned?
Those are probably YP ribbons but they may not hatch very well due to too much silt settling on covering the ribbons minimizing oxygenation of the developing embryos. You should try to drag one or two of those white things out for a closer look to verify perch eggs. Your pond water is so muddy that there might not be enough plankton for the fry to survive?
My pond has about another 3 or 4 feet to go to be at normal pool. Exposed clay should be covered then. I had extensive dirt work done last fall to get more runoff into pond, it is filling fine now. The downside is starting over on grass cover, hopefully in a couple months ground cover should be good and maybe pond will clear. Other ponds and creeks in area are clear with a very noticeable green tint now.
First Perch ribbons of the year for us. April 10th water temp 42*F.
We have one of the best blooms yet with some fall tree fertilizer that has made it into the pond.
I'm afraid my perch blew ribbons maybe in the tops of some brushpiles I have in 3-4ft of water. I found 2 ribbons early on a tree limb but that was it. My water temp was 61 degs before our snow storm the last few days so I believe it's quite possible I missed the majority that were laid somewhere I was unable to see them. Quite frustrating..
I had 3 smb spotted 4 days ago working what appeared to be potential spawning locations, I believe. in 2-3 weeks I'll be netting hard to see if I can obtain yoy YP to see if that is what happened.
Guess I'll quit wondering about ribbons... Pulled a bag seine around a bit today and discovered a very high number of YP fry nearly 1/2-5/8" long!! Hope some become food because it looks like they out number my fatheads by 2 to 1...
Interesting. I just saw the two ribbons myself, but suspect there were more I couldn’t see. I did a test run on the feeder mid afternoon the other day, and there were 100s of 1.5” fry hitting at pellets close to the bank. I was assuming they were GS. I’ll get my new trap out and see if I can catch a few. Hopefully some are YP. Plan is to use a few for HSB bait. Still trying to catch my first one. (HSB)
Great new S-G, Your trap should give an eye opener on what is lurking in the shallows. Let us know what you have and post pictures. Your perch fry should be further along in growth compared to mine depending of they can escape the predation of the GSH and that there is ample 'green water' for them to find micro-critters to eat.
I heard mallard ducks will eat YP eggs, I have a pair that has been at the pond the last week. I watched my perch ribbons and they did not eat one of them, but they have been tail up much of the day eating something else that is down in between the oak leaves in the shallows. I would hope they are ghost shrimp but I doubt there are any anymore.
I hope the mallard pair doesn't displace any wood ducks. I have some taj mahal wood duck houses up and really hoping we can entice a pair to nest there. Last year my camera put a date stamp of April 13 and 14 on the day where a pair of wood ducks made an overnight stopover at our pond.
We had 3" of snow yesterday as a freak snow event, hoping the woodies find our puddle and think it looks inviting
anyone know if mallards and wood ducks would get along?
Compared to previous years, we have very few perch ribbons. I have only seen 4 compared to 20-30 before. We have clear water, so I can usually see them down deep.
They showed up about March 15th with a late ice-out.
The interesting part is this year, they placed them in the tangle of cattails, where before they were on clumps of Chara out in the open. Probably the water was a tad warmer in the vegetation.
My theory is this year is I didn't plow off the pond at all, and the ice was pretty thick compared to usual. It was low O2 down there, and I lost a bunch of small crappie. The fish were more stressed this year, and mad at me. Thus the low ribbons. I still have plenty of large perch as evidenced by feeding them, but they are getting old.
I pulled out a perch ribbon today that was over 4 feet long. I have never seen a ribbon this big in our pond ever. I thought it was two but nope... there was a good male there too because it was over 90%.
I have laid branches in our pond two years in a row all around the pond. The perch only lay on the north and west sides and every thing in between. Nothing on the east or south side of the pond.
Today we had another 5 new ribbons. We remove most all of them and it is working at keeping the numbers down, but last year was different. Now I have implemented a 8-10"s slot size for the perch.
P.S. we have not cut our lawn yet this year and have not heard or seen any spring peepers. Really early here still.
Great new S-G, Your trap should give an eye opener on what is lurking in the shallows. Let us know what you have and post pictures. Your perch fry should be further along in growth compared to mine depending of they can escape the predation of the GSH and that there is ample 'green water' for them to find micro-critters to eat.
Well, I had time yesterday to put the trap out for about 30 min. Threw in dog food and Optima. No YP, no GS. Just these.. I guess the HBG have already spawned? More swimmer biters in the making. Biggest mistake I’ve made yet with the pond is stocking 200 HBG. They reproduce much more than I ever thought they would or could.
It will be interesting to see what these same fish look like in 2-3 years. To me they have more BG influence than HBG features - coloration; especially the two uppermost fish. Keep us updated with pictures as they grow older. They look like early to mid season hatch from last year 2018.