i am sure this has been covered already, but do f1 bass have true f1 offspring? no chance they will throw a true northern or florida bass?

Scott,

There is a good bit of info here on the forum on that topic. I believe I read there is potential for Outbreeding Depression with F1 bass, i.e. the offspring of the F1 x F1 can take on undesirable traits that are not exhibited by either original parent species or the F1. I would want an opinion on the ups and downs from someone like Ewest before I ever considered stocking F1s.

Just my 1 cent.

Bill

I don't think F1 exhibit outbreeding depression when stocked into the natural integrate zone .

That's interesting. I thought outbreeding depression was purely a genetics issue. How does the geographic location of the pond keep it from occurring? Less need for adaptation as the F1s are in a "native" environment?

in may my bass will have been in pond 2 years. i have at least 4 that are pellet trained. and i mean to the point they follow me around the pond while i ride the gator and toss pellets. it beats all i have ever seen. they can see the pellet coming through the air and head for it before it hits the water = seeing was believing! the ones that take pellets look completely different than the others. their colors are way more pronounced than the other bass, the white is whiter, and the black is blacker. also, of course, they are huge as compared to the others. the bass that don't take pellets look like the typical picture illustration of a lmb in an encyclopedia.

all 150 were stocked at the same time, will just eating pellets make them look that much different in less than 2 years? i have a feeder set for 4 times a day in the warm months, and i change it this time of the year depending on temps. i feed optimal and am 600. the lmb like both, but will chase you down for aquamax lmb pellet.

all of this rambling goes back to my question, how true are these f1's? do they all still have the characteristics of the largest northern and the most aggressive florida bass? are the fish suppliers still acting as scientist to create these better than normal fish annually or are they just counting on established fish to produce off spring to sell that should be like the original super f1's??

F-1s have been in use for many years. Not one study that I have read nor any report from the lakes has indicated an issue with outbreeding depression in their natural integrated zone. My 2 cents is that Fla and northerns are so close genetically (not like 2 distinct species such as BG and GSF)that they don't exhibit outbreeding depression. That does not mean that any isolated fish population without new genes will not show genetic problems over long time periods.That is a result of inbreeding.

F1 bass cannot have true F1 offspring. They can have F2 offspring or Fx (unknown) offspring. They cannot breed back to the genetics of the original parents, either. They can only provide the genetics they have, which is a mix of both parents.

Fish genetics is much more complicated than others, for several reasons. With deer, you have a known buck, known doe, one to three offspring...and they don't eat each other. You can provide the best habitat, great food, etc, and see the results in a couple of years.

With bass, a female may have 30,000 eggs, which might hatch, some might not. Then, of those which hatch, only a percentage has the right genetic mix of good growth, aggressive nature...whatever they need. If some percentage of those fish survive long enough, you can grow big fish. But, under water, it's a 'fish eat fish' world. We can't control survival rates or judge the fish as they grow so we can protect the best of the best youngsters before they get eaten. So, it becomes an environmental situation with luck.


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As an add-on to Bob's analogy ponds are different. The buck that Bob talks about can walk 20 miles to get to a new home (herd)for genetic purposes and they often do. That is not possible in a pond. As manager you have to do the remix of genetics.