Pond Boss
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 No more Aquamax for me! - 08/17/15 01:58 PM
My feed dealer that runs 4 feed mills has been told they have either have had their feed dealership agreement revoked or threatened to because they don't buy enough of their product. You have to wonder who's running the ship at Purina Mills and if they just want to run the ship aground.

What a way to run a business!

The person that places my orders said she won't shed a tear as they haven't seen a feed rep from them in years. She's never been impressed with their dealer and customer relations. But then neither have I and a lot of others I talk to.

I needed about 50 lbs. of fry size feed as I'm feeding quite a few more tilapia and bluegill fry this year than I anticipated. Been getting 10 lbs. at a time from Allied Aqua in Missouri but shipping gets to be a deal killer when you get up to 40 or 50 lbs.

I have a source of a different brand but it will take some driving.

Just thought I'd pass this along as there could be another hiccup in the supply chain! Sounds like the management is counting beans and shooting themselves in the foot!
Posted By: Bob-O Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/17/15 04:35 PM
Seems like nowdays the personal dealings have evaporated form MANY businesses. I love when ya try to get ahold of a company and after 5 minutes of their opportunities to be transferred to another computer that will ultimately let you speak to a person you are told your call is "important" to them and please hold for the next available representative. After anywhere form a minute to 24 or so someone does answer and usually doesn't know their arse form a hole in the ground or if they have to transfer you to someone who does it takes another 1/4 hr to get them and they usually can't speak English.
Ok, that was my rant for the day, I feel better. Now I'm gonna go kill some tree rats.
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/17/15 05:04 PM
I love the press one for English, press two for Spansh, then 3, or 4, or on up to 8 or so for the other options! Not!

And with some companies it takes days to get an email response!
Posted By: esshup Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/17/15 05:14 PM
Since the cell phone was updated with the lollipop software (Samsung) I have not had signal at the house. I got Verizon to get me a signal extender that made using the cell phone in the house possible. Well, the extender lasted for 2 weeks then quit working. I spent about a whole day with them on the land line talking to someone at tech, and they decided that a new extender was the answer.

Got it, installed it and it doesn't work either. ANOTHER 1/2 day on the phone and they pushed it over to the Engineering dept. I told them to call the land line.

This weekend I've had 5 calls to the cell phone from Verizon, and when I tried calling the number back from the land line it says that the number is no longer in use.

My only other option is AT&T, and with 5 weeks to go on the orig. Verizon contract, that'd be a $350 hit to get out of the contract.....

Even so I got a trial AT&T phone to check signal. 3 bars until I turned on the road that leads to the house. 2 bars. Pull in the driveway, 2 bars. Still marginal. Get right outside the house, 1 bar. Go inside, 1 bar.

I'm about to give up.
Posted By: Bob-O Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/17/15 05:21 PM
Trouble is they know we really need these services and there are so few options they really don't give a damn. Dang it Scott, thought I was done ventin.
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/17/15 05:25 PM
I won't even start on the lack of competition of the two major shippers in the country!
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/17/15 05:27 PM
Originally Posted By: esshup
Since the cell phone was updated with the lollipop software (Samsung) I have not had signal at the house. I got Verizon to get me a signal extender that made using the cell phone in the house possible. Well, the extender lasted for 2 weeks then quit working. I spent about a whole day with them on the land line talking to someone at tech, and they decided that a new extender was the answer.

Got it, installed it and it doesn't work either. ANOTHER 1/2 day on the phone and they pushed it over to the Engineering dept. I told them to call the land line.

This weekend I've had 5 calls to the cell phone from Verizon, and when I tried calling the number back from the land line it says that the number is no longer in use.

My only other option is AT&T, and with 5 weeks to go on the orig. Verizon contract, that'd be a $350 hit to get out of the contract.....

Even so I got a trial AT&T phone to check signal. 3 bars until I turned on the road that leads to the house. 2 bars. Pull in the driveway, 2 bars. Still marginal. Get right outside the house, 1 bar. Go inside, 1 bar.

I'm about to give up.



The problem is ya live in Redneck country like me!

Seriously I feel for ya. I hope you get it resolved without additional expense and more wasted time.
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/17/15 06:41 PM
Well I guess I am getting a 50 lb. bag of Aquamax after all. blush Will pick it up from a very generous fish farm over in Ohio and get it at an excellent price. wink



Steve Heitman of Shelby Fish Farm you da man! smile
Posted By: Ben Adducchio Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/17/15 07:31 PM
Cecil, thought Shelby Fish Farm had free shipping on their products which included food. They ship quick too, was quite pleased with them. When I start feeding more heavily I will probably use them as the source.
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 12:30 AM
Originally Posted By: Ben Adducchio
Cecil, thought Shelby Fish Farm had free shipping on their products which included food. They ship quick too, was quite pleased with them. When I start feeding more heavily I will probably use them as the source.


Yeah but the price is a lot higher for a fifty pound bag and "free shipping." Try over $100.00. Not Shelby Farms' fault though. Shipping something of that size and weight is not cheap.
Posted By: JKB Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 01:29 AM
Originally Posted By: esshup
Since the cell phone was updated with the lollipop software (Samsung) I have not had signal at the house. I got Verizon to get me a signal extender that made using the cell phone in the house possible. Well, the extender lasted for 2 weeks then quit working. I spent about a whole day with them on the land line talking to someone at tech, and they decided that a new extender was the answer.

Got it, installed it and it doesn't work either. ANOTHER 1/2 day on the phone and they pushed it over to the Engineering dept. I told them to call the land line.

This weekend I've had 5 calls to the cell phone from Verizon, and when I tried calling the number back from the land line it says that the number is no longer in use.

My only other option is AT&T, and with 5 weeks to go on the orig. Verizon contract, that'd be a $350 hit to get out of the contract.....

Even so I got a trial AT&T phone to check signal. 3 bars until I turned on the road that leads to the house. 2 bars. Pull in the driveway, 2 bars. Still marginal. Get right outside the house, 1 bar. Go inside, 1 bar.

I'm about to give up.


Lollipop, really, really, really sucks!!! That got installed on my Nexus 7 and I've wanted to bounce that sucker off a few concrete walls, but have an Otter Box on it, and the dang thing wasn't cheap cry Hopefully, they may come out with something new and improved, but don't bet on it wink

Windows 10 was to be the fix-all for all of our Rockwell Software laugh wink

I'm sorry if you guy's are not familiar with Rockwell or Siemens software/products, but this basically runs the infrastructure of our country and others as well, as well as aircraft.

Big problem is they went with Microsoft as an OS quite a while ago, but Microsoft don't give a crap anymore and windows 10 was supposed to be the fig leaf collaboration between the stuff that actually runs the world and the crap that's corrupting your grade school child by teaching them that everything they ever need is available with a monthly subscription on a device.

All of our customers run MS OS, so if we change on this, they have to, and it would be a huge expense.

All I can say is it sucks at times.
Posted By: Ben Adducchio Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 02:20 AM
Originally Posted By: JKB
I'm sorry if you guy's are not familiar with Rockwell or Siemens software/products, but this basically runs the infrastructure of our country and others as well, as well as aircraft.


It is the software that currently runs it, that is until a conficker variant crashes it b/c as a country we don't take critical infrastructure seriously
Posted By: Ben Adducchio Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 03:00 AM
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Yeah but the price is a lot higher for a fifty pound bag and "free shipping." Try over $100.00. Not Shelby Farms' fault though. Shipping something of that size and weight is not cheap.


Good to know and makes sense. I have not bought any 50lb bags of AquaMax (or even close to that amount), roughly how much would one expect to pay for a 50lb bag?
Posted By: Rainman Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 03:17 AM
Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: esshup
Since the cell phone was updated with the lollipop software (Samsung) I have not had signal at the house. I got Verizon to get me a signal extender that made using the cell phone in the house possible. Well, the extender lasted for 2 weeks then quit working. I spent about a whole day with them on the land line talking to someone at tech, and they decided that a new extender was the answer.

Got it, installed it and it doesn't work either. ANOTHER 1/2 day on the phone and they pushed it over to the Engineering dept. I told them to call the land line.

This weekend I've had 5 calls to the cell phone from Verizon, and when I tried calling the number back from the land line it says that the number is no longer in use.

My only other option is AT&T, and with 5 weeks to go on the orig. Verizon contract, that'd be a $350 hit to get out of the contract.....

Even so I got a trial AT&T phone to check signal. 3 bars until I turned on the road that leads to the house. 2 bars. Pull in the driveway, 2 bars. Still marginal. Get right outside the house, 1 bar. Go inside, 1 bar.

I'm about to give up.


Lollipop, really, really, really sucks!!! That got installed on my Nexus 7 and I've wanted to bounce that sucker off a few concrete walls, but have an Otter Box on it, and the dang thing wasn't cheap cry Hopefully, they may come out with something new and improved, but don't bet on it wink

Windows 10 was to be the fix-all for all of our Rockwell Software laugh wink

I'm sorry if you guy's are not familiar with Rockwell or Siemens software/products, but this basically runs the infrastructure of our country and others as well, as well as aircraft.

Big problem is they went with Microsoft as an OS quite a while ago, but Microsoft don't give a crap anymore and windows 10 was supposed to be the fig leaf collaboration between the stuff that actually runs the world and the crap that's corrupting your grade school child by teaching them that everything they ever need is available with a monthly subscription on a device.

All of our customers run MS OS, so if we change on this, they have to, and it would be a huge expense.

All I can say is it sucks at times.


I have not downloaded Windows 10, and have no intention to for a while either.

As for Google's Lollipop, to say it sux $#!&, would be a compliment. I use an LG G3 and it auto loaded...HATED it! 2 days later, I broke the LCD and had to get another phone right away since I was on a delivery run, and locations were in my now unreadable phone. Loaded the info on the new phone and blocked the Lollipop update. Now, all I need to do is wait till it tries to install and force the app to stop....a small PITA, but worth it to avoid Lollipoop! I put on a new LCD and glass myself on the original phone...only $65 for new parts.

Scott, the early termination with 5 weeks left would be about $110-$120..it's prorated at $10/month after 3 months, and back-dated. I hate I know that, but after going 15 years without damaging a phone, I went through 7 in a few months. Verizon worker told me to get new contracts, switch my phone number, and then terminate the old contract. At first, I thought paying $350 was insane, till he said, Okay, full price on my phone is $899....
Posted By: Rainman Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 03:35 AM
Originally Posted By: Ben Adducchio
Cecil, thought Shelby Fish Farm had free shipping on their products which included food. They ship quick too, was quite pleased with them. When I start feeding more heavily I will probably use them as the source.


I take Steve at Shelby Fish Farm a lot of fish...he's a good guy!
Posted By: DNickolaus Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 09:23 AM
Originally Posted By: Ben Adducchio
Good to know and makes sense. I have not bought any 50lb bags of AquaMax (or even close to that amount), roughly how much would one expect to pay for a 50lb bag?


Seem to run $40-48 around here. ..and GFC 25-28.
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 09:24 AM
Originally Posted By: Ben Adducchio
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Yeah but the price is a lot higher for a fifty pound bag and "free shipping." Try over $100.00. Not Shelby Farms' fault though. Shipping something of that size and weight is not cheap.


Good to know and makes sense. I have not bought any 50lb bags of AquaMax (or even close to that amount), roughly how much would one expect to pay for a 50lb bag?


The last time I bought the smaller starter feeds, that have protein content in the 50 percent range, the retail price was in the 50 some dollar range for a 50 pound bag. That vs. say the grower sizes like 500 and 600 that ran in the low to mid 30 dollar range.
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 09:32 AM
Originally Posted By: Rainman
Originally Posted By: Ben Adducchio
Cecil, thought Shelby Fish Farm had free shipping on their products which included food. They ship quick too, was quite pleased with them. When I start feeding more heavily I will probably use them as the source.


I take Steve at Shelby Fish Farm a lot of fish...he's a good guy!


Yes have had nothing but good experiences talking to Steve on the phone and ordering smaller quantities of feed that was shipped. Was going to buy some bluegills from him one year to bolster my numbers after a poor hatch, but that was the year of the winter from hell when a lot of northern fish farms lost bluegills over the winter regardess of winter aeration. He got hit hard that winter.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 10:58 AM
I bought 2 50 pound bags of AMAX 500 recently. Price with tax was $85.00

I also went by TSC the other day and bought a 25 pound bag of Sportsmans Choice for about $15.00. It is 36% protein but all grain based.

Actually, I'm not sure what makes up the protein on any of them.
Posted By: lassig Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 11:14 AM
Microsoft OS doesn't run the telephony infrastructure, no wonder it works so well. We invented our own OS long ago and still run on variants of it.
Posted By: JKB Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 12:31 PM
Originally Posted By: lassig
Microsoft OS doesn't run the telephony infrastructure, no wonder it works so well. We invented our own OS long ago and still run on variants of it.


PLC based systems have their own OS as well and are rock solid. It's only the programming software that runs on windows which is the source of everyone's misery.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 01:33 PM
Cecil - Your fish food from Shelby Fish Farm is probably going to be Zeigler brand - 40# bags. Several growers in the area bought Zeigler food when Purina was difficult to locate. They like the Zeigler feed and are talking about switching from Purina to Zeigler.
Posted By: snrub Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 02:44 PM
On my AM 500 grain was on the ingredient list way before fish meal. Just sayin.....
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 02:46 PM
Originally Posted By: snrub
On my AM 500 grain was on the ingredient list way before fish meal. Just sayin.....


No surprise there.
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 02:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Cecil - Your fish food from Shelby Fish Farm is probably going to be Zeigler brand - 40# bags. Several growers in the area bought Zeigler food when Purina was difficult to locate. They like the Zeigler feed and are talking about switching from Purina to Zeigler.


That's even better!
Posted By: esshup Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 04:26 PM
Last time I bought AquaMax it was just shy of $40 but I think I get a special deal from my supplier.

I can't let the cat out of the bag yet, but maybe, just maybe there will be food available all over the country at $45/bag delivered price......... wink

Bigger discounts will be available (due to shipping cost reductions) on 1/2 and full pallets.
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/18/15 04:44 PM
Originally Posted By: esshup
Last time I bought AquaMax it was just shy of $40 but I think I get a special deal from my supplier.

I can't let the cat out of the bag yet, but maybe, just maybe there will be food available all over the country at $45/bag delivered price......... wink

Bigger discounts will be available (due to shipping cost reductions) on 1/2 and full pallets.


That would be awesome Scott although I will probably purchase what I need for the rest of the year soon not counting the five indoor tanks.
Posted By: Boburk Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/30/15 03:17 PM
No where near the scale you guys are...but just as a comparison, no one near me sells AM. To start my pond off, I bought 5 lbs of AM 500 shipped to me for over $20. I did just find the same for $16, and 20 lbs for $41. I wish I could find it local for the prices you guys mentioned...though I think 50 lbs would go bad before I used it all.

I did have blue gill spit out AM 500 and swim away when I started feeding....but as they went through the natural forage in my small pond, they are more aggressive about eating it now.

What kind of a timeline are they looking at for the new feed? 20 lb bags would be great for my scale...if they are still figuring things out.

Sean
Posted By: stickem' Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/30/15 11:26 PM
Sean,
Of course the big sack is the way to go if you're going to order it and have it shipped to you. I use Trident Cargill 4512 in the 50lb sack. I buy 2-4 sacks at a time. I break it down into 5 gal buckets with sealing lids from Lowes. With the sealed lids, the feed will last much longer. Also, the mice and rats can't get to it where it is stored in the barn. I usually get ~3) 5 gal buckets of feed per 50lb sack. Maybe some helpful info....maybe not. But it'll save you some $$$.
stickem'
Posted By: Bill D. Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/31/15 02:10 AM
Originally Posted By: stickem'
Sean,
Of course the big sack is the way to go if you're going to order it and have it shipped to you. I use Trident Cargill 4512 in the 50lb sack. I buy 2-4 sacks at a time. I break it down into 5 gal buckets with sealing lids from Lowes. With the sealed lids, the feed will last much longer. Also, the mice and rats can't get to it where it is stored in the barn. I usually get ~3) 5 gal buckets of feed per 50lb sack. Maybe some helpful info....maybe not. But it'll save you some $$$.
stickem'


+1 FWIW We have two indoor cats. I store my feed in the yellow Tidy Cat pails the kitty litter comes in with the sealing lids. I use the same pails for fetilizer, road salt, grass seed, etc. They work great!
Posted By: Rangersedge Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 08/31/15 09:34 PM
Also had horrible experience with lollipop updates. Was very pleased with samsung S5 on verizon until updated. Battery life cut to about quarter previous two days now half day, stuff loaded don't use don't want, dropped calls 10 in short time one day last week, and have lost over 3,000 contacts numerous times.
Posted By: JKB Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/01/15 12:07 AM
Lolli-Poop was a bad one. That's all I have to say.
Posted By: snrub Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/01/15 03:19 AM
My Tab which I use for internet when traveling keeps trying to upgrade me. Since reading all the bad about it here on this thread have been hitting the back button when the upgrade comes up and it goes away for that session. Guess I will keep doing that till something better comes along.

I've avoided a bunch of other upgrades for programs that it wanted to do by going in and turning the updates off. From what I could gather most of the updates put into effect a lot of stuff I did not want with features I have no need for. Hope it does not cause me security problems by not upgrading, but I do not use 90% of what a lot of people consider desirable features.
Posted By: Boburk Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/02/15 12:16 AM
Originally Posted By: stickem'
Sean,
Of course the big sack is the way to go if you're going to order it and have it shipped to you. I use Trident Cargill 4512 in the 50lb sack. I buy 2-4 sacks at a time. I break it down into 5 gal buckets with sealing lids from Lowes. With the sealed lids, the feed will last much longer. Also, the mice and rats can't get to it where it is stored in the barn. I usually get ~3) 5 gal buckets of feed per 50lb sack. Maybe some helpful info....maybe not. But it'll save you some $$$.
stickem'
I read a study that said they tried four different feeds on caged bluegill and the AM 500 showed the best growth. That is why I am using it (that and I think rainman said to use AM 500 or 600).

What does a 50 lb bag of cargil cost with shipping?

Sean
Posted By: snrub Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/02/15 12:39 AM
Daughter just picked up some ordered through a local dealer several weeks ago. $39.50 for both AM500 and 600. 400 was quite a bit higher.

That seems high to me. Over $600 worth. Feeding fish aint cheap.
Posted By: stickem' Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/02/15 04:51 AM
Originally Posted By: Boburk
[quote=stickem']Sean,
Of course the big sack is the way to go if you're going to order it and have it shipped to you. I use Trident Cargill 4512 in the 50lb sack. I buy 2-4 sacks at a time. I break it down into 5 gal buckets with sealing lids from Lowes. With the sealed lids, the feed will last much longer. Also, the mice and rats can't get to it where it is stored in the barn. I usually get ~3) 5 gal buckets of feed per 50lb sack. Maybe some helpful info....maybe not. But it'll save you some $$$.
stickem'
I read a study that said they tried four different feeds on caged bluegill and the AM 500 showed the best growth. That is why I am using it (that and I think rainman said to use AM 500 or 600).

What does a 50 lb bag cost?


Sean,
it's $39.00/50# sack. But, I've never had it shipped to me. I have always picked it up from Overtons...45% protein, 12% fat.
charlie
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/02/15 05:04 AM
Growth of fish is one measurement - very useful for hatcheries who are trying to maximize size in as short a time period possible. They are not concerned with longevity or health - they typically only hang onto age 0-1 fish. New feed becoming available renders not only outstanding growth, but also promotes longevity through healthier diet/feed. According to the experts I've read, Aqua Max fish develop fatty tissue on their organs, and as a result their lifespans are diminished. The newer feed addresses this with different nutrient, vitamin, and protein sources. Longer lived BG mean more opportunities to pursue these trophies! Those looking for a great BG feed should check it out!
Posted By: Boburk Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/02/15 11:08 AM
TJ,

Any idea when the new feed will be available?

We all have different goals and situations with our ponds. Mine went from dry to full pool (the fullest I have ever seen it) in a couple days with our drought busting rains in May. With our on again off again drought here, I really think I will only have a couple years before my pond is dry, or low enough to cause problems. It has been dropping MUCH faster than I expected. I think it is down 4-5 ft since May. I just want myself and mine and other peoples' kids to be able to have some fun out there fishing...and to get rid of the mosquitoes. So I am looking more for fast growth than longevity.

Sean
Posted By: TGW1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/02/15 12:34 PM
I will receive a pallet of Cargills 4512 today. last time the shipping cost added $3.00 per sk or about $42.00. But if I figure in my fuel and time to go and get it the price might be the same. My seed and feed guy gave me 3 sks of the Purina and the feed was twice the size of the cargils and it floated on the waters surface longer than cargills. Maybe the fish were slower to take to the Purina feed. And the Cargills seems to have more or faster sinking pellets than the Purina.
Or maybe the fish are more familiar of the Cargills. I like the higher protein in the cargills. After almost a yr of feeding, I am still not sure how much to feed because they will eat whatever I throw out in just seconds. Feeding to get fast growth in cnbg and larger cnbg is not cheap. But maybe, just maybe, I can get to where I want to be with the cblmb from Overton's.

Tracy
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/02/15 08:21 PM
Originally Posted By: Boburk
TJ,

Any idea when the new feed will be available?

We all have different goals and situations with our ponds. Mine went from dry to full pool (the fullest I have ever seen it) in a couple days with our drought busting rains in May. With our on again off again drought here, I really think I will only have a couple years before my pond is dry, or low enough to cause problems. It has been dropping MUCH faster than I expected. I think it is down 4-5 ft since May. I just want myself and mine and other peoples' kids to be able to have some fun out there fishing...and to get rid of the mosquitoes. So I am looking more for fast growth than longevity.

Sean


Yo Boburk

The feed is available now...contact Scott Schillig [Esshup] for details - I think they can ship to your doorstep for $45 or so, but he'll know for sure. Sending you a PM.
Posted By: esshup Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 12:36 PM
Trying to find a price on boxes that won't break the bank.
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 01:06 PM
Uline in Chicago has good prices but UPS or FedEx will gouge you on the shipping due to the dimensions of the flattened boxes even though there isn't much weight. Maybe if you were out that way you could pick them up?

http://www.uline.com/Cls_04/Boxes-Corrugated

I use them for various size boxes to ship my frozen fish.
Posted By: Shorty Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 03:33 PM
Originally Posted By: esshup
Trying to find a price on boxes that won't break the bank.


Cardboard is not cheap. crazy
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 07:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Shorty
Originally Posted By: esshup
Trying to find a price on boxes that won't break the bank.


Cardboard is not cheap. crazy


Shipping costs more than the boxes for me!
Posted By: Shorty Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 07:49 PM
Shipping is not cheap either. cry
Posted By: Shorty Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 07:51 PM
Esshup and TJ, I would be interested in trying out a bag this new stuff with my RES, let me know what you get worked out on box & freight.

Steve
Posted By: NEDOC Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 07:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Shorty
Esshup and TJ, I would be interested in trying out a bag this new stuff with my RES, let me know what you get worked out on box & freight.

Steve


I second this. In fact, I'd be willing to run to Shorty's if shipped together (if he let's me!).
Posted By: esshup Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 08:01 PM
If a couple of guys would use a combined 20 bags, there's a way to ship 1/2 a pallet to one address relatively easily, and I think it might be cheaper than sending individual bags.....

Or 40 bags on a full pallet.
Posted By: Shorty Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 08:20 PM
Originally Posted By: NEDOC
Originally Posted By: Shorty
Esshup and TJ, I would be interested in trying out a bag this new stuff with my RES, let me know what you get worked out on box & freight.

Steve


I second this. In fact, I'd be willing to run to Shorty's if shipped together (if he let's me!).


One or two bags is all I would need, I have a little pond, both of us going to TJ's might work if we can get enough people to get at least a 1/2 pallet shipped.
Posted By: sprkplug Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 08:52 PM
Scott, is it possible to run up and pick up some feed somewhere? Is there a brick and mortar "store"? Just planning ahead for next spring, and I had hoped to save shipping costs by purchasing all of my feed for the season at one time.
Posted By: JKB Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 09:26 PM
Don't forget your feed storage containers.



I was buzzing by a country store on my way to work yesterday and saw these little barrels out front. Thought they were too darn cute so turned around about a half mile down the road and stopped in. They had 2 and I grabbed them. On my way back they had 2 more, so I grabbed them as well. Asked if they have more, she made a call and I picked up 5 more this morning. They had Naproxin Sodium (powder form of Alieve)in them and are super clean. Really nice gasket seal on the top with the taper band to clamp tight. I don't think they can get any more, but if someone close buy want's one, I have a few extra.

They measure about 19" in diameter x 27" tall, about 30 gallon size. Nice handles to boot!
Posted By: sprkplug Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 09:36 PM
Score!!
Posted By: NEDOC Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/03/15 11:23 PM
Shorty, I'm very interested in quite a bit of feed. I just need to figure out my plan next year. I don't know yet if I'm gonna be growing out BG or Blue cats, both, or possibly neither. And I also need to educate myself on the type of feed we are dealing with here. Is this a feed designed for panfish in particular, or is this something my BC would benefit from, etc. I plan to have a big feed bill one way or the other next year so I may as well be working with a high quality food like this. A pallet full minus a few bags out of it for you, TJ and Bruce isn't out of the question for me. Also my cousins have a trout farm up the road and they're always growing out trout for restaurant consumption and they usually have a truck of feed shipped in from Utah. Possibly they'd be interested. A lot of things to figure out on my end. So I need you guys to educate me on this product. Very similar to aquamax in composition? Varying sizes? Pct protein? Good for trout grow out? Fill me in.

PS I've already seen it working on Bruce's RES so I'm sold on its effectiveness.
Posted By: JKB Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/04/15 01:06 AM
Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Score!!


Well Spark - That just may be my new Super Power: "Spotting cute barrels out of peripheral vision while wearing my old 7 level progressive bifocals after ingesting an Ultram 50 for breakfast and driving at speeds that could possibly cause some unplanned for financial deviations". laugh

Seriously tho, I've been looking for little barrels like this for a while now.

My bucket barrel list has a lot of stuff in it wink laugh
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/04/15 04:06 AM
Originally Posted By: NEDOC
Shorty, I'm very interested in quite a bit of feed. I just need to figure out my plan next year. I don't know yet if I'm gonna be growing out BG or Blue cats, both, or possibly neither. And I also need to educate myself on the type of feed we are dealing with here. Is this a feed designed for panfish in particular, or is this something my BC would benefit from, etc. I plan to have a big feed bill one way or the other next year so I may as well be working with a high quality food like this. A pallet full minus a few bags out of it for you, TJ and Bruce isn't out of the question for me. Also my cousins have a trout farm up the road and they're always growing out trout for restaurant consumption and they usually have a truck of feed shipped in from Utah. Possibly they'd be interested. A lot of things to figure out on my end. So I need you guys to educate me on this product. Very similar to aquamax in composition? Varying sizes? Pct protein? Good for trout grow out? Fill me in.

PS I've already seen it working on Bruce's RES so I'm sold on its effectiveness.


Next time up I'll give you some and show you how it works.
Posted By: rrussler Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/16/15 06:58 PM
I was at Rangen in Angleton TX today picking up some feed and noticed multiple pallets of Aquamax. I asked the guy there and he said they now make Aquamax for Purina. Its the same feed that Rangen sells under their own name but with Purina packaging.
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/16/15 07:40 PM
Originally Posted By: rrussler
I was at Rangen in Angleton TX today picking up some feed and noticed multiple pallets of Aquamax. I asked the guy there and he said they now make Aquamax for Purina. Its the same feed that Rangen sells under their own name but with Purina packaging.


I've used Rangen once before when it replaced Aquamax. It was a starter feed and I liked it better than the Aquamax in my tanks as it didn't dirty the water up as much.

Amazing isn't it? A company brags about how great their feed is and someone else makes it.
Posted By: bcotton Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/16/15 07:55 PM
Is it still only the game fish chow or is Rangen now manufacturing the gamefish line i.e. aquamax 400, 500, 600, 2000 and 4000?

when purina was having supply problems, i contacted rangen but they apparently have no retail distribution network (at least in dallas/ft worth area) and shipping a few bags at a time is WAY cost prohibitive.
Posted By: rrussler Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/16/15 08:22 PM
I only looked at one of the pallets. It was aquamax 400 with first ingredient fish meal, then chicken. I did not ask them what other sizes they were making. Once he said the aquamax was Rangen feed in a different bag it didnt matter. Rangen produces multiple sizes under their own name. They also had pallets of Purina game fish chow.
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 12:27 AM
Originally Posted By: rrussler
.....Its the same feed that Rangen sells under their own name but with Purina packaging.


uh, oh.......
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 12:46 AM
rrussler, were you specifically told that they are just putting a different bag around their own product?
Posted By: canyoncreek Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 02:26 AM
Thanks for the tip JKB, others who are interested, check your local craigslist using the search 'food barrel' Our area has several sources selling these for somewhere between $12-20 per piece, clean, with sealing lids.
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 03:37 AM
Update - my fish are feeding with significant infrequency on the new Purina feed. I have cut down on feeding times by 50% and still have pellets floating 20 minutes later. As anyone whose been to my ponds can attest, typically a 2 second throw would be consumed in less than 3-4 minutes anytime water temps exceed 55 degrees. The food looks different, is sized differently, smells different, and is being utilized at a much lower rate than original Aqua Max. I am done with Purina Aqua Max as soon as I use it all. At the rate fish are eating it, however, I'm not sure I'll go through it before it goes bad. Really disappointing, hardly surprising.
Posted By: Cecil Baird1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 03:49 AM
My fish in the main pond are off feed somewhat period. Maybe the extended warm temps?

In my small holding pond where I have 100 seven to eight inch gills along with yellow perch, I threw threw them some hydrated Aquamax since feeding was so slow in the main pond. They were't crazy about vs. the hydrated optima feed.
Posted By: Dave Davidson1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 11:05 AM
I'm feeding AMAX 500 3 times a day and there is none that isn't eaten. Test feeding and tossing by hand also gets eaten.

No problem on either pond.
Posted By: sprkplug Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 11:39 AM
According to the tag, the ingredients are a little different. Someone more intelligent than I would need to wade through all those important sounding big words, in order to see if such changes account for the differences some, including myself, are reporting.

I'm still curious if the tweaks in the formula occurred on Purina's end, or are a result of contracting out production. Exactly who's using who's formula here....is it Rangen feed in an AQ bag, AQ feed being sold as Rangen, or a completely different formulation?

Anyone have a Rangen tag handy?
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 11:58 AM
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
I'm feeding AMAX 500 3 times a day and there is none that isn't eaten. Test feeding and tossing by hand also gets eaten.

No problem on either pond.

My catfish absolutely adore the new Aquamax feed. Whoever makes it..... My lepomids? Not so much....
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 12:00 PM
I too would love to see a Rangen tag.
Posted By: FireIsHot Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 12:04 PM
Tony, I've been emailing with Cargill over the last week, and apparently they've had a nice spike in sales since this Purina deal hit. Maybe I'm naive about business stuff, but they were all over this latest market opening as soon as it happened.

I have no clue whether Purina's new fish food is their formula or Rangen's, but labeling it as a Purina product makes sense. Purina products are in every feed store down here for 300 miles, so a distribution network is already in place. If Rangen self-labeled their food and came out with a Purina Aquamax equivalent product, they'd probably fight the same brick and mortar shelf space issues that Cargill does.

I wonder how many bags/tons of fish food are sold a year to noncommercial customers?
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 12:14 PM
Originally Posted By: FireIsHot


I wonder how many bags/tons of fish food are sold a year to noncommercial customers?


Now THAT is a great question. And is ultimately the probable reason we are even having this discussion.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 07:06 PM
I also am not liking the new version of Aquamax feed. Very little fishy odor, thus likely the flavor is compromised and fewer fish will be harder to pellet train, pellet texture appears different, and it does not hydrate as well as the old AM600 version. I won't know really until next spring if the fish are eating it as well. I usually have casual pellet feeding by the yellow perch in mid summer and fall.
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 07:33 PM
My HSB are not eating it. I am all ears regarding a replacement feed for YP, HSB, and SMB.
Posted By: JKB Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 07:54 PM
The Ziegler feed I have stinks horribly like fish. sick

Temps dropped pretty low for a while so think they got their winter jammies on.
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 08:50 PM
Looks like I'm going to have to research Ziegler until Bob or Matt come up with alternatives.
Posted By: rrussler Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 09:09 PM
Condello - it was a casual conversation with the guy who works at the loading dock. I didn't interview anyone on the topic, and I certainly didn't talk to the production manager or their food biologist. Since I am very happy with Rangen products and have never used Aquamax, I really don't care if its the same stuff or not, so there was no reason for me to follow up.

As I'm sure you know, there are a lot of name brand products we all buy that have generic equivalents. We never know whether the chicken or the egg came first - ie, even if it is the same product, is this the Rangen formula in an Aquamax bag, or the Aquamax forumula in a Rangen bag? Do you perceive a problem with it being one way or the other?

I can probably get you a copy of the ingredients tag for Rangen if you are still interested, but you might also be able to find the ingredients on their website.
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 09:14 PM
All good points.

But it is a big deal if your fish prefer, or thrive on a particular product, then the company changes the product significantly, at the same time implying that they didn't. It's dishonest, and it also hinders us "scientist wannabes" from controlling variables to improve our success. If it turns out to be true, I'll be furious.
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 09:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
All good points.

But it is a big deal if your fish prefer, or thrive on a particular product, then the company changes the product significantly, at the same time implying that they didn't. It's dishonest, and it also hinders us "scientist wannabes" from controlling variables to improve our success. If it turns out to be true, I'll be furious.


+ 100
Posted By: sprkplug Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 09:21 PM
I'm in agreement, but then again maybe the guy on the forklift didn't know the whole score.
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 09:23 PM
Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I'm in agreement, but then again maybe the guy on the forklift didn't know the whole score.


While this may be true, my personal experience is that a lot of times the guy on the forklift knows more than the VP-Marketing. laugh
Posted By: sprkplug Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 09:35 PM
Good point! grin
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 09:39 PM
laugh laugh laugh
Posted By: rrussler Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/17/15 09:41 PM
Agreed.

But there are a lot of types of fish that can be made into fish meal, so even if the listed ingredients are the same on all Aquamax bags, couldn't you be getting a substantially different makeup to the food based on where it is made and where they source their fish meal? Same with other ingredients.

I dont know for sure, but I would think Rangen is using Menhaden from the Gulf of Mexico, since their plant is so close to the coast. No idea whether Aquamax uses Gulf Menhaden fish meal nationwide.

Question - I moved my feeder about 150 feet recently. Will the Bluegills hanging out at the old site all move to the new site?
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/18/15 12:47 AM
Home range of bluegill is large enough so that 150 ft away they will soon find the new pellet feeding station.

Some web references state BG home range to be 30 square meters. Although I rely on recent research from SDSU to be more accurate.
http://www.in-fisherman.com/panfish/bluegill/tracking-bluegill-research/
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/18/15 12:51 AM
I think so too. Rather quickly.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/18/15 12:52 AM
Hi Bruce! I like what you are currently doing with RES. Ata Boy!
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/18/15 12:55 AM
It's been a really fun project. They're a challenging fish!
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/18/15 01:42 AM
New AM smells like pasta, not fish. Period. I deal with it daily with hydrated pellets I smash and sink. The recipe has changed, I just don't know if it's positive or negative. My HSB don't seem to like it, since I'm feeding them, that's a negative.
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/18/15 01:43 AM
Like slightly burnt pasta...exactly.
Posted By: Bill D. Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/18/15 01:55 AM
Guys,

As a bystander, I feed a mix of Cargill and Skretting, I suggest you ask Bob L., who has the inside track with Purina, (I see he is still promoting Aquamax in an article of the latest issue of PBM) to simply ask Purina what's up. Is it the same food?? Just my 2 cents.
Posted By: teehjaeh57 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/18/15 03:22 AM
Different size, different smell, different consistency, different feeding reaction. Not sure there's a stone that's been left unturned - pretty obvious to me.
Posted By: Sunil Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/18/15 12:23 PM
The Aquamax Largemouth is clearly not the same.

Fish still eat it, but I'm an intermittent feeder.
Posted By: Bruce Condello Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/18/15 01:55 PM
Wasn't the Largemouth formula originally coordinated by the Pond Boss to simulate the nutritional parameters of a small trout? this is exactly why I am disappointed in the fact that Purina is throwing such a curveball here. The Pond Boss went to a lot of work to make certain that such a cool product was available to us.
Posted By: Boburk Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 09/18/15 05:16 PM
I am new to all this...and ordered small quantities online from folks that are repackaging it. My first 5 lb order I did not notice a strong smell or anything. My second order had a strong fish smell. I figured it was just me. This discussion has me wondering.

Fish seem to hit both pretty good.

Sean
Posted By: james holt Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/07/15 12:36 PM
My hybrid striped bass have not gained weight on the aquamax and look skinny. They don't feed on it with much vigor and so on a friends advice I'm switching to skreeting 48 percent protein. The pellet size is about double that of aquamax 600. The cost is about the same. His concern is that they may be using more feather meal in their product. He thinks fish do not digest feather meal very well. All I know is that my hybrid stripers don't look they are being fed at all.
Posted By: TGW1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/07/15 01:54 PM
James, this morning I was reading my new Pond Boss magazine (Nov. Dec 2015). Eric West has an article in the Science & Cutting Edge, discussing Hybrid Striped Bass with his friend George Glazener . The article was well written and not wanting to ruin the article for you, I will just mention there is some information about the feeding of HSB that might be helpful. I am waiting on the rains to stop here in E. Texas so we can get to the pond, and then I will be stocking some HSB. Soon I hope. smile

Tracy
Posted By: anthropic Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/07/15 08:09 PM
Has anybody tried the new Optimal food on HSB? Do they eat it? If so, how is growth?

I'm going to use Optimal on my FHM, RES, and CNBG initial stocking, but don't know if it would be good for future HSB.
Posted By: esshup Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/08/15 01:08 AM
Mind you, this wasn't a controlled test. This was a "I wonder what will happen?" The fish weren't weighed, the food wasn't weighed. Now remember, this Optimal food is formulated for sunfish.

I put 200 HSB in a 4' square cage on 6-25. I threw 3 handfuls of food in the cage every evening around 6 pm. There was a feed ring in the cage so the food wouldn't float out. The middle of last week I cleaned the fish out of the cage. The HSB were 8"-11" long. Do I have pictures? Nope. If everything goes right there will be a formula for carnivore fish next year. When next year? Hopefully in the Spring. Will the pellets be bigger than the Sunfish food? Yes. How much? That hasn't been determined.

I'm trying to see what is the biggest pellet that the current Texas Hunter feeders will reliably throw without doing any irreversible physical changes to them.

As you can see, it's a work in progress. wink grin
Posted By: anthropic Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/08/15 03:19 AM
Thanks, Scott, good info. I'm looking forward to stocking and feeding.
Posted By: james holt Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/11/15 07:02 PM
I hope Eric will read this and chime in. I just read his article in pond boss about hybrid striped bass and am trying to understand what he is saying. Does it mean that catfish food with high carbohydrate content is just as good for hsb growth as the expensive high protein foods we are buying? Can we mix high protein food with high carbohydrate food? My hsb are skinny right now and I am still working on why that is happening could be feeder not feeding enough? Cloudy water Im not really sure? I will say my fish don't seem to be feeding aggressily on the aquamax 600 but could just be a fluke Im not sure?
Posted By: ewest Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/11/15 07:41 PM
I am here. HSB do not require high protein diets and can digest carbs well. BG and LMB do not use/digest carbs so they are different. There is a lot of aquaculture data on HSB food requirements as they are a commercial food source fish (grow out for food consumption by people). 32% protein is plenty and it looks like much of the fish meal requirement can be replaced with soy products. James pm me an email and I will send you the referenced studies.

See this for info.

https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/283/
Posted By: james holt Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/12/15 02:21 AM
Here is the dilemma then in my mind. You have one feeder and you have three types of fish you want to feed. You have feed trained large mouth bass blue gill and you have hybrid striped bass. Can someone please tell me what to put in the feeder? Here is the other delimma getting the fish to eat the food you throw out. I think this may be the problem I am having. Baby doesn't want to eat her carrots.
Posted By: TGW1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/12/15 12:26 PM
James, My HSB went into my pond yesterday. Stocking low numbers so not to interfere with my plans to grow double digit CBLMB. As you can see, I am new to growing out fish. Pond is one yr old. In my discussion with Todd @ Overtons, I understood the HSB may not feed @ the 3 feeders I have out and most likely will feed on the TFS in the pond. There may be some feeding that takes place but as I understood it, the HSB will most likely feed on the other fish in the pond. So with that in mind, everything I have learned says low RW/WR means low forage in the size needed to feed that desired fish. As I said I am new to growing fish but learning something most everyday.

Tracy
Posted By: ewest Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/12/15 03:49 PM
James have you looked at your carrying capacity vs fish numbers/lbs ? You may have to many fish to support.

One way to get extra food to your HSB, with little wasted fish energy, is to hand feed LMB pellets (big feed size) at the same time the feeder goes off. Here is a link to a vid of that.




http://s74.photobucket.com/user/ewestmnw/media/HSBfeeding6-2013IMG_0167_zpsec3b2730.mp4.html
Posted By: TGW1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/12/15 04:03 PM
I had to order out another pallet of Cargill's Trident 4512 fish food yesterday and so for the first time I ordered out some of the 1/4" along with my normal order of the 1/8". My thinking was the CNBG (original stock) are now in the 7" or larger size and now adding 7" HSB I thought it would work better. Less energy returns more growth was my thinking. Am I wrong here? Maybe I should have asked before I placed the order. ha

Tracy
Posted By: Bill D. Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/12/15 04:28 PM
Originally Posted By: james holt
Here is the dilemma then in my mind. You have one feeder and you have three types of fish you want to feed. You have feed trained large mouth bass blue gill and you have hybrid striped bass. Can someone please tell me what to put in the feeder? Here is the other delimma getting the fish to eat the food you throw out. I think this may be the problem I am having. Baby doesn't want to eat her carrots.


FWIW I feed Cargill Sportsman Choice Multi-species pellets. Feed has multiple sizes of pellets in the same bag and is pretty middle of the road with respect to nutrition (36% protein). I mix in a little Skreeting 46% 3.5mm pellets for my little guys.
Posted By: ewest Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/12/15 04:32 PM
TGW1 you are correct. Here is some info on how it works. You want to get as much energy into the fish with food as you can with as little effort expended as possible.

From a prior thread http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=127798&page=1


The concept of 'bioenergetic' is not hard to understand. The sun is the basic source of energy for the pond plus anything you add (extra forage fish or pellets). Here is a good site with basic info.

http://www.aqualex.org/elearning/fish_feeding/english/bioenergetics/intro_biogen.html


"The flow of energy through a biological system and the system's inherent energy requirements are covered by the term 'bioenergetic'. In biology energy is required to maintain life, grow and reproduce. From a fish farming point of view, growth is the main area of interest. The main energy source for consumers (as opposed to producers such as plankton and plants) is their diet or food. This provides the energy to drive chemical processes giving rise to new tissues, to help in osmoregulation, to aid digestion (the means by which consumers unlock energy stored in food) and so forth. [Note: energy cannot be made or destroyed but can only be converted from one form to another].

Energy taken in by fish through digestion of food is used ultimately in one of three ways - that is for growth, metabolic processes and that lost to the fish through waste. During digestion the main components of the diet (protein, fat, carbohydrate) are broken down into carbon dioxide and water with heat as a by-product, the latter being rapidly dissipated to the surrounding water. The energy liberated is temporarily stored in special 'energy compounds', the main one being adenosine triphosphate (ATP), which become cellular level energy sources for functions such as protein manufacture (i.e muscle growth), swimming and so on."

The same concepts apply to the pond as a whole ( plants like plankton or pondweed and animals like zooplankton , bugs and all others).

A key fisheries science concept that is key to understanding the working of the entire system. Energy in = energy used + growth. Read then comment.


Welcome to the world of fish physics. Many of us understand basic fish behavior and can reach logical conclusions about where the best place to throw a fishing line is. But when we don’t think much further than that we are missing out on some very interesting details of fish behavior. We can never fully understand why we find some fish in one location and some fish in other locations until we consider the concept of fish bioenergetics. Ultimately, fish behavior is a product of bioenergetics, ... this concept to demonstrate how interrelated physics is with fish behavior. First, ... take a look at basic fish bioenergetics, understanding the underlying quantitative principles. Then, ... look at some examples of how physical forces, thermodynamics, and light characteristics are specifically related to fish bioenergetics.

BASIC FISH BIOENERGETICS
Fish bioenergetics includes components of physical forces, thermodynamics, and light characteristics, and follows energy laws and theories describing any other closed system. What it all boils down to is the net rate of energy intake. If this rate is positive a fish will grow and if it is negative then a fish will begin to undergo the stresses of losing biomass.

Fish bioenergetics is really a matter of efficiency. Potential profit for a fish at any given position ... (is) ... the amount of energy coming into its system as prey minus the cost of staying at that position.

Bioenergetics
the biological study of energy transformation.
Bioenergetics is the subject of a field of biochemistry that concerns energy flow through living systems. This is an active area of biological research that includes the study of thousands of different cellular processes such as cellular respiration and the many other metabolic processes that can lead to production and utilization of energy in forms such as ATP molecules. All biological processes including the chemical reactions of bioenergetics obey the law of thermodynamics.



Thermodynamics

First Law is the conservation of energy: energy can neither be created nor destroyed.
Second Law states that the degree of disorder or entropy (S) of a closed system or of the universe as a whole can only increase.[1


Overview
Growth, development and metabolism are some of the central phenomena in the study of biological organisms. The role of energy is fundamental to such biological processes. The ability to harness energy from a variety of metabolic pathways is a property of all living organisms. Life is dependent on energy transformations; living organisms survive because of exchange of energy within and without.

In a living organism chemical bonds are broken and made as part of the exchange and transformation of energy. The chemical bonds in carbohydrates, including sugars, are important for the storage of energy. Other chemical bonds that are important for metabolism include the terminal phosphate bonds of ATP and the energy-rich bonds of fats and oils. These molecules, along with oxygen, are important energy sources for many biological processes. Utilization of chemical energy from such molecules powers biological processes in every biological organism. Bioenergetics is the part of biochemistry concerned with the energy involved in making and breaking of chemical bonds in the molecules found in biological organisms.

Food molecules are sources of chemical energy for many organisms. Not all metabolizable energy is available for the production of ATP.[2]
Posted By: TGW1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/12/15 04:53 PM
ewest, that was a mouth full. smile Thank you for supporting my decision to increase the size of the feed. I hope the fish like the idea smile

Tracy
Posted By: sprkplug Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/12/15 05:22 PM
Welcome to PondBoss. Bioenergetics, physics, the laws of thermodynamics.....and you just wanted to feed your fish. Simple, huh? wink

Optimal Forage Theory, explored by a hill jack:

"Hollis, you've got a choice. One plate has a lovely, wedge shaped slice of cantaloupe. The other has the same sized slice, but I've cut it into bite-sized chunks....which one do you choose?"

Hollis: " Give me the full slice. Only have to bend my elbow one time thataway".

Bioenergetics, front porch style.
Posted By: CMM Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/12/15 05:31 PM
Love this forum!
Cmm
Posted By: james holt Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 12:54 AM
Here is what one of the aquaculture guys that raises bass told me. They were having a problem with fish gaining weight on the fish food they had been feeding for over 20 years the skreeting 42%. Formula had changed with added feather meal. They then switched to the 48% skreeting and the fish began to gain weight as before. The 48% still has fishmeal as the number one ingredient. These are large mouth bass and not hybrid striped bass and so just like eric is saying a totally different type of fish but if the hybrids won't eat the lower percentage food it doesn't matter does it? I hear what your saying eric on the density issue also. We have taken out every catfish caught this year and every crappie under ten inches. I have burned out two electric knives cleaning crappie. We have removed every bass under ten inches. I added 100 pounds of tilapia 100 pounds of bluegill and two hundred pounds of koi. I have also added 100 pounds of crawfish.
Posted By: james holt Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 01:08 AM
this was an example earlier this year that looks fat but now they are much skinnier
Posted By: Bill D. Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 01:19 AM
Beautiful fish man!
Posted By: CMM Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 01:29 AM
Length, weight?

Beauty right there!

Cmm
Posted By: james holt Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 01:39 AM
thank you bill. The hybrid striped bass is truly a beautiful fish. Its funny seeing the picture just before the spillway pipe gave out and lowered the pond about twelve feet. Here is what it looks like now after fixing the pipe and raising the water level about two feet. So whats the bottom line on the fish food? Im like tracy should we just increase the pellet size or switch to another brand? I can't seem to find the aquamax lmb and my dealer can't get it. Is the aquamax still the best?
Posted By: Bill D. Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 01:40 AM
Originally Posted By: james holt
....I added 100 pounds of tilapia 100 pounds of bluegill and two hundred pounds of koi. I have also added 100 pounds of crawfish.


I just noticed this. Why did you add the Koi? I have never seen this in a stocking plan before and I am curious.
Posted By: james holt Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 01:52 AM
cheapest bait in our area. We call it bass candy can't overpopulate but reproduce quickly
Posted By: james holt Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 01:54 AM
shiners are 10 dollars a pound where we live
Posted By: Bill D. Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 02:01 AM
Thanks James. Very interesting. Cheapest bait fish I can get here is FHM and they are also 10 bucks a pound.
Posted By: TGW1 Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 12:45 PM
James, I know that fish was a blast on the fly. I am hoping that someday soon I will have a similar picture taken at my place. smile
And after looking a that fish, I will bet you will figure out what to feed again to get them back to that level. Do you have TFS? And I am still thinking lack of proper forage, but again, I am new to growing 10 lb HSB or LMB. But I bet I get there smile
Good luck on the problem solving

Tracy
Posted By: james holt Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 02:11 PM
I had a cold winter last year and the thread fin I don't think made it. WE still have lots of gizzard shad. I may try to get some thread fin next year from the lake near me. Im going to have to get better at throwing a cast net.
Posted By: ewest Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 04:16 PM
FYI HSB will do fine on high protein food. It is not required but will not hurt. What is important is the total feed profile sources of protein , carbs and lipids + micro-nutrients etc. They need to be close to matching the fishes natural diet.

I will be glad to send someone my power point presentation on Fish nutrition if they will somehow post it here. I guess the individual slides could be made into a slide show and posted. That is beyond my computer pay grade however.
Posted By: esshup Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/13/15 04:59 PM
Eric, if you could upload it to YouTube, then that can be imported here easily.
Posted By: ewest Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 11/15/15 08:49 PM
Never done that .
Posted By: FireIsHot Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 12/23/15 08:28 PM
I started hand throwing Skretting 9.5mm 48% protein fish food this week. This might work for those who have been feeding Aquamax 600, and are looking for a replacement. IIRC, it's an 1/8" larger than AM 600, so feeder considerations may come into play.
Posted By: Bill Cody Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 12/23/15 09:01 PM
How are your fish responding to the larger 48% protein Skitterling pellets??.
Posted By: FireIsHot Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 12/23/15 09:40 PM
Bill, I got it for the HSB, but the CNBG are pounding it before it ever floats out to them. The protein's a little higher than I needed for the HSB, but the all the larger fish(HSB&CNBG) are readily eating it.

I think I'll have a better feel for the results after the CNBG slow down a tad. The big puddle's at 58 degrees, and I'm hoping the CNBG slow down soon so I can see exactly who's eating what.
Posted By: Yolk Sac Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 12/23/15 10:35 PM
Originally Posted By: FireIsHot
I started hand throwing Skretting 9.5mm 48% protein fish food this week. This might work for those who have been feeding Aquamax 600, and are looking for a replacement. IIRC, it's an 1/8" larger than AM 600, so feeder considerations may come into play.

I'm doing the same thing. HSB love it, so do BG and smallies, and with some minor modifications a TH feeder can throw it.

AND to top it off, Skretting sent me a Christmas card.
No more Aquamax for me, either!!
Posted By: FireIsHot Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 12/23/15 10:46 PM
Yolk, did you drop the spindle?

I'm new at this HSB game, but the short term results have been extremely positive. My LMB better straighten their act up, or I'll kick em' to the curb.
Posted By: Yolk Sac Re: No more Aquamax for me! - 12/23/15 10:59 PM
Lowered the spindle and flattened it's edges just a bit, though I'm not sure that would have to be done on all feeders.

My daughter has definitely become an HSB convert.....
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