Sorry this isn't a pond related question, but if anyone could provide me with some advice on this I'd greatly appreciate it.

I'm about to have some gravel brought in to lay 125 feet of drive out to my pasture gate. Should I put anything down first to prevent grass growing up through and a lot of future maintenance?

-Brad

Brad good question.

What kind of rock are you putting down? 57 stone? #4 Stone etc?
a What condition is the road at the current moment? Is is an old dirt road? Clay base? How well compacted already from years of driving? What are you going to be driving on it? Tractor or Cadillac? How well is the road setup with a proper crown and ditches?

For my main rural roads on the timber properties I put down a heavy base of #4 stones to start at 2-4 inches. After about a year I then come back with 57 stone as a top layer. After 6 months I put aggregate layer or many call crusher run. Now you have a road.

If you do not have a good solid clay base to start that has been driven on a while then it would be good to put down geotextile layer first that will prevent the stone from all disappearing into the soft soil.

Get back with more details and we can figure out the best road for your purposes.

Sorry I didn't include more details.

I was thinking #2 stone, 4 inches thick. Maybe it would be smarter to do what you did...in two layers.

There is no existing road. This will be put down from the back of my workshop to an entrance to my back pasture. There is just grass there now.

It is solid clay and will run right by my pond. You can't drive in that area after it rains because you will sink and get stuck...hence why I am installing the road.

There was a thread not to long ago on this. There were all kinds of responses to it, based on geographic locations. It was interesting to see the differences as to what everyone had available and what needed to be done for each type of soils.

Anyway, #2 is what we use here too for a base. That is followed by 354, might be 357?, but it is a mix of different size fines that lock the #2 in place. Otherwise the big rock always works it way up, but that might be regional thing here because of the frost cycles. Then top dress it with #57. Not saying this right for you, but what is done up in my area. I like to let the #2 be driven on till it starts packing before following up with anything. Then you can see if there is a soft spot that needs a bit more before applying finish coats.

I think the biggest/important step to take, is make sure all top soil is scraped away. If you don't, that stuff will just work it's way into your gravel and ruin it in no time.

The best thing that I ever did was put down a geotextile mat before I put rock on my 600' driveway. Something like this. Geotextile Mat

I'd recommend if you are going to go through the work of buying and spreading all that rock, to go ahead and scrape off your topsoil first. Not sure how thick the topsoil is around Dallas area, but around these parts it's 8 inches or so...if you take that off and replace with a layer of 2-4 inch rock as a base, then come back with a CA-6/road pack layer in my experience your road will be a LOT more stable a lot sooner.

And at least here topsoil is a decent commodity. You might be able to find someone who would scrape it off for free if they can have the leavings.

Nothing to add from this end. That's how I would do it.

I looked at the geotextile mats, but they would be a little pricey for me. What about something like this?

Polypropylene Black Woven Stabilization Fabric
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-WF2...5-432/204268172

My main concern in all of this to prevent grass from growing through over time, leading to constant maintenance.

I like the idea of using larger gravel, then coming back in later with smaller material.

edit7279 you may find this thread informative.

Previous thread about gravel roads

BTW...I still have not done anything,
but this summer it is supposed to happen.

The Geotextile fabric isn't so much to prevent weeds from growing, as it does to prevent the gravel from migrating down into the soil, requiring you to re-gravel the driveway every few years.

Scott is that stuff super expensive?



"At the same time of preventing the rock/granules from passing,
it allows the water to drain through freely"

I can only tell you what we do here where we can have 30"s of frost in the ground and every thing moves then.

We strip all top soil to get to the sub soil,
Then run in 4" medium recycled crushed concrete to the height of where the top soil was.
Then some A gravel on top of the 4" about 6"s of it. Then back berm the drive with the top soil you scraped back to get a nice slop away from the drive to get water away.

We find up here the sharp edge gravel is what you want. The sharp edges with bind and bridge together very tight. Round rock and stone with stay loose no mater how much clay you add to it.

Cheers Don

Thanks Zep. I read over that discussion.

FireIsHot mentioned getting a quote of $600 for a 300' x 10' crushed concrete drive. Good lord that's a steal! That's about half of what I was looking at just to bring in and dump 125' worth of gravel.

Looks like I need to do WAY more research on prices.

Brad,

Call Richard Drake Construction. They are a north of Paris so shipping my cost a little more to bring it to you but is another local option.

I hear you on this. Having a good base is an important step to help, but I personally have found that nothing will stop this over time. I believe what happens is fine dirt, grass clippings, soils coming off the tread of your tires, all work into that gravel from the top. This then gives a place for seeds to start taking hold.

No hair.... I mean grass grows on a road well traveled.

Dono, how do you know what the top of my head looks like...very well traveled indeed.

I am about to put in a new gravel road. I have a pretty much unlimited supply of "lightly used" heavy duty silt fence. How do you think that would compare to the fancy geotextile cloth? Im sure not as good and more labor intensive to put down, but hey it's free!

If the clay sinks today it is not compacted. If you expect to drive on it after rain then you need to do 1 of the following:

1.) cut ditches and put a crown on the road before putting down rock
2.) cut ditches and put a crown on the road and then geotex before putting down rock.

The geotex is not totally necessary but as you can see if a vehicle sinks today in the mud then the rocks will sink in the mud when wet and driven on. So you need to get the water off the road ASAP when it rains so the clay does not become saturated.

You are going to spend the same money either way.

1.) no geotex then you will be adding rock in a year
2.) Geotex more expense to start but you wont be adding rock immediately

Make your decision based on the price of geotex now versus more rock in the future.

#2 stone in my opinion is way to big. Not a good road subsurface. #4 is the largest base to start.

Any surface barrier that prevents the rock from sinking into the ground is better than none. If you have a supply of this and dont want to spend the money on GEO then yes put it down. You will be better off by at least 50%

Thanks Swiss!

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I think I know what direction I'm going to go.

On a side note... when I get the rock brought in, hopefully the driver will be this good. Haha. This guy's skill amazes me every time I watch it. Most have trouble spreading it evenly going forwards...

That's one way to do it to make sure you don't get stuck in the mud!!!

The geotextile material may not be a must, but I believe that it has saved me a small fortune.
I have watched my neighbors work and patch and drive through pot holes on their driveway, while I have done nothing but drive on a smooth driveway for the last ten years.

I bet the stuff from Home Depot would probably do about the same thing.

Man I can't get one load of crushed concrete around here for much under $600, and that's just delivered and dumped.

I just got a price today. I need both Riprap and road stone. Same price for both - $290 per semi-load (about 13 tons per load) delivered. Does that sound reasonable?

For us around here, that is a bit high Bill. But we live in a good gravel area.

3000' of crushed concrete out of east Dallas laid on top of an iron ore base. Material was watered and compacted with a vibratory roller.





This morning I sprayed the road edges to push back the costal Bermuda. 10 gals mixed in my tow behind sprayer wasn't $3-4.00.

Pricing depends alot on the current construction and area you are in. But you are right in the ball park at $22 per ton delivered. If I pick up I can cut the price in half but fuel and time will cost me the difference.

I was paying 320.00 for 18 ton of 57 and or #4 in the early spring and now we are back up to $400.00. If you get a spreader truck involved typically it costs me another $50.00

Swiss is 18 tons what a regular tandem truck will carry?

Im in NW Ga

~22 ton.......

In my area, they sell it by the yard. I have no idea how that relates to tons. With the flooding rains, I'm going to need quite a lot.

When I was in the office, I heard the lady trying to explain to someone on the phone about how much a ton of #57 was. I "think" I heard her say that a yard is like a ton or ton and half? I could be miss understanding that....

Dave,

I am used to "by the yard" measurments as well. They sell dirt here by the yard. With stone, they weigh it and tell me a ton is roughly a yard. I'm thinking that is a BIG "roughly" depending on size and type of stone.

Bill D.

Not going to put 22 tons on any tandem axle dump truck I'm familiar with. Around here, tri-axles regularly haul 20 tons.

A ton and a half per yard is real close.. WITH SAND AND STONE PRODUCTS....other materials with varying densities will be different.

Since you guys are talking rock and roads, I have a question. I went to the Kubota dealer and looked @ a piece of equipment that when drug behind the tractor, it will turn or roll over the gravel and is used for farm road repair. Who here has used one? I think it is a Land Pride and is painted orange to match the tractor. There was another one they had, different brand and heaver built and a $1,000.00 higher in price, I think it was painted yellow ? Sorry but I am getting forgetful when it comes to the name of maker or the equipment And does this thing work worth a dam, will it save me in the cost of hauling in more rock? Or smooth out farm pasture roads?

Thanks

Tracy

It was different than a box scraper or drag harrow? Maybe a grader/scraper?

I remember seeing a thing called a "Road Boss Grader" advertised in the Nov/Dec issue of PBM that sounds like what you are describing.

These are graders and work well for clay based roads. Not good for maintaining rock roads.

The best road maintenance tool is a blade. A good one should allow you to rotate the blade forward to cut and backwards to smooth. This is is a must tractor tool and much more versatile than a a grader. Secondarily it must tilt so you can cut ditches. Thirdly it must angle so you can move the dirt from crown of the road into the wheel trenches that develop. With a blade and some experience a person can do on a tractor what a motor grader can do.

Land pride makes good equipment. I always go for the most rugged device I can afford and still tear stuff up. Don't go cheap on tractor implements.

I can take my blade every year and rework my stone roads perfectly to recreate a crown and clean ditches and smooth out everything.

http://www.landpride.com/products/124/rbt40-series-rear-blades

This is the rear blade I have but I have a big tractor. You dont need to get something this large unless you have a tractor over 70hp and are going to work it hard.

Then add top and tilt to your tractor and life is good

Wow, I read 18 wheeler......not tandum axle dump truck. My bad. Lol.

Tbar, it's likely my error. I'm not sure what we're considering a "tandem" to be. To me, a tandem is a dump truck, but there are certainly tandem semi dump trailers also!

I have a box scraper and a blade, but I use the box for everything except filling the wheel tracks. I need an angle for that. If I'm not mistaken, the Road Boss Grader has angled cutters, which to me would make it directional...in other words it has a leading and a trailing edge. Interesting.

http://www.roadboss.org/

Sparkie, that's it, the yellow one and yes it was the road boss. cost was $2,400 versis the landpride @ $1400.00. The road boss was way heavier built.
Bill, I did not remember seeing it in PBM , but like I said I am getting more forgetful these days.
I was looking @ these to rebuild my roads. They need rebuilding.


Thanks

Tracy

Tracy, if you get the road boss I would be interested in hearing how it performs for you?

No problem Sparks, With all the rain we have had, the roads have become pretty rutted.

Tracy

Yeah my bad too. Around here we call regular dump trucks "tandem trucks".

After further research, I've come across some material called SB-2 gravel which is crushed granite and it seems everyone raves about how well it packs, disperses water, etc.

It appears to be the standard here in the south for road bases.

Anyone heard of/used this stuff?

Trying to find some prices for it now...

I have a roadboss and I have been very pleased with its performance. Most of my pasture roads are hard clay, after heavy rains we get some erosion on them along with tire ruts, the roadboss does an excellent job of leveling out the road and filling in the ruts, sometime you have to go over them in both directions since the blades are angled. We also have some gravel roads, this will pull the gravel from the edges to center, and really makes the road look good, however, then you do have alot of loose rock and gravel that needs some repacking. This is a very heavy, well built piece of equipment, the owner delivered it himself and was very good about showing me how to adjust the blades for best use.

Good report on your success with the Roadboss. I dont see how you could cut a ditch with this piece of equipment could you? I Still like the flexibility of a blade as the best all around tool to perform road maintenance if you were limited to purchasing one device. .

I think part of it comes down to the definition of "maintenance". If the road is regularly maintained, and the stone is fairly loose, then a blade works great. If it's been awhile, then I prefer the added weight of a box scraper that enables a bigger bite, and cutting depth.

Closing the loop.... My stone came today. I got it for $18.50/ton delivered. Semi averaged around 21 Ton/load.

Thanks for the inputs guys!

Bill D.

There we go. That sounds pretty good Bill.

Around here stuff is sold by the cubic yard, and trucks are rated the same.

I just use a box scraper on my stuff - works great!

Sweet, now lets see pictures

Would love if we could upgrade the site to allow taptalk to work with pondboss.com and then picture upload from mobile devices would be a snap!

Pics would be great!

Not much of a picture. Just building up the driveway some more today getting it ready for asphalt next year after another year of settling.

Guy just handed me the bill. Came in a little cheaper than quoted. Final total was $1206.05 for 67.2 tons of road stone so just a shade under $18.00/ton.

Saved around $300 from the original guys price! Going to be buying a lot of riprap soon so those savings from the new supplier are going to multiply.

Thanks again for the advice guys!

Bill D.

I don't recall what I have paid in the past but I think it was a LOT more than that.

I dug out the receipts for some stone we had spread on the drive a few weeks ago. Three tri-axle loads of 20.47, 19.73, and 19.85 tons respectively, for a cumulative total of exactly 60.05 tons of #4 stone.

The bill was $690 total, including stone, haul fees, and spreading.

That is awesome!

Thanks for listing what prices y'all paid. Helps get a ballpark of what to expect.

Lots of oil drilling in my area so lots of demand for gravel. I expect the price is pretty high.