I am so glad to see Bob Lusk's article on Hybrid Stripers in the latest Pond Boss magazine. I have been working with and promoting hybrid stripers for about a decade now and have even tried the hatchery process. Hybrid Stripers have become my favorite pond fish, all around!

About 10 years ago George Glazener and I collected broodstock female striped bass from Lake Texoma and attempted to cross these with male white bass from Lake Limestone to produce the Palmetto Hybrid Striper. Then, after that failed attempt, we learned that Keo Fish Farm out of Arkansas produces the Sunshine bass (white bass female x striped bass male cross). So we attempted the reciprocal cross, which failed again, but was temporarily much more promising.

For the sake of accuracy, I believe there is a factual error in this article. Keo Fish Farms produces the Sunshine Bass, not the Palmetto. The Sunshine Hybrid Striped Bass may be easier to produce due to availability of brood stock, acceptance of prepared diets, and other factors. The Palmetto Hybrid Striped Bass is produced by state and government agencies for stocking public waters. I believe this explains why the HSBs available to us in the private sector from Keo seem to max out around 10lbs, while the public lakes may produce 20lb+ HSBs.

For those of you who need a reference or wish to learn more about Hybrid Stripers, see Culture and Propagation of Striped Bass and Its Hybrids, Available from American Fisheries Society.

Todd, will you be at PB-VI?

It's been too long, Mabro!!

Yes of course I will be there, will be good to see you Sunil…

Todd, I am so glad you posted in regard to Bob Lusk’a excellent Hybrid Striped Bass article in the current issue of PondBoss Magazine.

We really had a blast and continue to this day with our Hybrid Stripers that have been my favorite sport fish since building our first pond some 12 years ago - man how time flies!
Collection of brood stock from lake Texoma was fun and after fertilization with white bass, staying up all night with microscope watching eggs develop, brings back fond memories. That’s when we deciced that Keo Fish Farm was less labor intensive and cost effective than our approach.

Another point to add to Lusk’s article was beginning my quest for HSB fingerlings, TP&W biologists that I consulted with gave very negative opinions that HSB could not be successfully stocked in Texas farm ponds. A recent article in a TP&W publication now recommends stocking HSB in Texas farm ponds.

Yeah, “Hybrid Stripers - Culture and Propagation of Striped Bass and Its Hybrids, available from American Fisheries Society, has been my bible since your early recommendation many years ago.

I need to go back and bring up early posts about my first stocking HSB fingerlings in our pond with the following LMB frenzy!

Thanks for the memories my friend.
George Glazener

Rock on, george!!!

Thanks for sharing that George. Very interesting.

Has it really been 12+ years? I remember those days. Lots of changes have occurred since that time of bass, bluegills and channel cats. Anything else was arcane heresy.

George, here's a trip down memory lane for you.

I attended a TAMU pond conference somewhere below Austin about that time. There was a guy there who raised HSB for consumption to the Asian market. He told me that they were fine for public lakes but were not suitable for ponds. He wouldn't sell me any fingerlings or even any up to 12 inches. BTW, TP&W agreed with him.

I read an article from a biologist who said that tilapia would be the ideal forage fish for ponds. I posted something about it on the original PB site and it was challenged immediately by a TP&W guy who used to post here. The thought was that their fecundity would create a biomass problem. Then I asked a well known TAMU Professor who reminded me of the XMAS movie about the kid who wanted a BBG gun. He told me "You'll shoot your eye out boy". I mentioned it to Meadowlark who has tried to stock everything but great white sharks. He tried them, then George tried them, and after a couple of years others dipped their toes in the water. Now they are an often used tool. But, due to my varying water level, it took me quite awhile to get around to trying them.

George, do you remember the days when BG were not considered a sport fish? The thought was that they would top out somewhere around 8 to 9 inches. You, Meadowlark and I had already grown some that hit 11 inches but not a lot of people really believed us.

Dave Willis was some college professor who wrote textbooks who impressed us by saying "We really don't know yet.".

Cecil was growing huge trout but I couldn't figure out why.

There is one thing that hasn't changed since the pioneer days. When Bill Cody said something everybody else shut up. My buddy, Slick Willie Cody, has been a legend for a long time.

Yeah, there have been quite a few changes.

Yeah Dave, we were told back in the old days "bluegill were just bait", tilapia would create bio mass problems, and stocking HSB in small Texas farm ponds was unheard of….
Interesting knowledge acquired by challenging authorities!

George

I'm glad things have changed for the better down Texas way, but the bass, bluegill, channel cat, stocking mantra is still chanted regularly by both private and state biologists here in my neck of the woods. I have attended meetings where both authorities advocated for this combination and nothing else.

Of course we have esshup now, so things are looking up...

George, This past November I built what will be a 3.5 acre pond in Harrison Co. North of I-20, I consider it to be located in N.E. Texas. Since the beginning of construction, I found Pond Boss and have seen from the pictures and from reading some of the post where you have been successful in raising HSB for fishing and for the pleasure of doing something that was said (it could not be done). In reading this thread, it appears you have been VERY involved in how to be successful in growing HSB in Texas ponds. if I read things correctly, I understand you are doing this on a 2 and 1/4 acre pond. Would you please describe your pond, water depths and etc. And I am guessing you are aerating and such. Can you give someone like me ,a newbie, the how to be successful in such a venture. Will you attend or speak at the PBC?
Thanks
Tracy

Tracy, I am/was an avid Lake Texoma striped bass fly fisherman, so when we built our ponds in 2002 Hybrid Striped Bass were on the top of my list for stocking Hybrid Striped Bass for fly fishing.

To the best of my knowledge, I was the first in this part of the country to achieve the goal of successfully stocking Hybrid Striped Bass in small Texas farm ponds, utilizing fingerlings and growing them out large enough to escape predation when transferred to larger ponds.

It’s been a fun learning experience over the past 10-12 years.
If I were starting over I would do some things different since experiencing record breaking Texas heat and drought conditions.

Let me spend a little time to put my thoughts together and I’ll see what I can put together.

I will not be able to attend the upcoming PB conference due to health issues but I have been invited to the Thursday night IceBreaker.
I will try to attend to see old feinds and meet new ones.
Thanks for your post,
George

Guys,
I just got off the phone with Mike Freeze of Keo Fish Farms. They, in fact, use female white bass x male stripers as their cross. He said he'd rather use the other cross, because the fry are larger and he can get lots more eggs from a female striper. But, female stripers' eggs don't mature until the water temperature hits 83, and in their ponds, the female stripers deteriorate in water so hot. He said that's why they use the "sunshine" cross. Mike and his partner, Martha, started Keo Fish Farm raised their first crop in 1983. About half that first crop was hybrid striped bass. They thought their main market was to sell fish to a burgeoning recreational market, but they soon realized their market was for food fish.
In early 1983, I evaluated a lake out on the Caprock, a fishing club called Horner Lake Club, between Plainview and Lubbock. It was about 30 acres, give or take. At that point, I had no sampling gear, so worked out a deal with Texas Tech's range management department to go learn about the fishery. We estimated there to be around 150,000 white crappie in that lake, average 4 inches, age 7 years, a little thicker than a postage stamp. That lake had been out of whack for years. The best idea we could figure out was to stock 8" hybrid stripers, since their budget was only $1,000. That was my first attempt at stocking hybrid stripers and the purpose was to see if they would eat enough of those little crappie that the lake could be reclaimed to grow largemouth bass again. It took several years, but the plan worked quite well and the club members were able to begin harvesting the hybrid stripers to make room for largemouth bass to again become their main game fish. I heard recently that that lake is a puddle, a victim of a long-standing drought.
After that point in time, several of us used hybrid stripers, mostly in ponds in north Texas and Oklahoma, but use was limited because all we could buy were small hybrids and most ponds had largemouth bass in them. Small hybrid stripers stocked into bass ponds quickly became a snack.
Very few of our customers had any interest in hybrid stripers because they didn't see the value. I had a hard time believing in them because we couldn't have a steady supply of 8-10" fish for stocking into existing ponds. For guys like us, it was either small fish or food sized fish. Food sized fish are almost impossible to transport. They die pretty easy.
The paradigm began to change when Todd Overton took fingerling hybrids and grew them into sizes that could survive in small waters. George Glazener, with his passion, dedication and his belief in Todd's abilities, teamed up to fill and promote a niche in the marketplace. My hat's off to both those guys. It took a few years to establish the paradigm change, but now people are beginning to see more value with hybrid stripers. Heck, they're a lot easier to manage than largemouth bass. What you stock is what you get.
So, a big round of applause to George and Todd for their perseverance and dedication to influence that niche in the marketplace. Kudos to you guys.
I'll print a correction in the March-April edition of Pond Boss, in Ask the Boss, with Todd's callout as the lead.

Tracy, the key to have a successful Hybrid Striped Bass fishery in our part pf the country is to have/build a small dish shaped, no cover, no structure brood pond.



My stocking program:
FHM - heavily stocked late winter/early spring.
OTS CNBG - limited stocking late spring/early summer.
HSB - heavily stocked early spring for numbers appropriate for main pond goals.

No feeding until CNBG reduce numbers of FHM and CNBG - you want the HSB to be forage trained in order to control CNBG over population.

This little pond will be a jewel for a future classic CNBG/HSB fly fishing pond - if you are into this sport.

Aeration may be needed in future years, as well as 1 or 2 GC and appropriate numbes of ALL MALE tilapia.

If you do not have a brood pond, high quality 8 - 10 inch HSB are available from OvetonFisheries -
http://www.overtonfisheries.com/StockerFish/SportFish/HybridStripedBass/tabid/229/Default.aspx

Pictures below are HSB in 1st growing season.





After transferring appropriate numbers of HSB to main pond, “ladder stocking” is advised on an annual basis to replace numbers of HSB harvested or losss from CPR stress.
I strongly recommend aeration in Texas ponds - bottom diffuser systems in deeper area and surface aeration in areas less than 8-10 feet.



Any Q&A omitted, jog my memory - remember that our greatest challenge in our area is controlling biomass to avert fish kills in Texas heat and drought periods.

Good luck on your program,
George Glazener

I'm a PB subscriber and have been hanging around the Forum for nearly two years. I have a 1/4 acre pond in NE Ohio. It is two years old with LMB,BG, GSH, FHM, and Tilapia-in season. After reading so much about HSB here on the forum, I threw a half dozen 5-7 inch fish in this fall and am anxious to see how they make it through the winter and if they join in the feeding frenzy when the ice melts and the water warms up. I am just in the Ohio River watershed by about 1/2 mile. I enjoy reading the Forum and appreciate the information.

Thanks George for telling us about some of your history and where you have been and where you are. In the early 80's I fished lake Texhoma with a friend who guided there. He used to call me to go bass fishing the lake as he would be tired of trolling for strippers and he liked to bass fish with me. We had gone to the same high school and we built a fishing friendship. He never charged me for fishing. As you know the striper fishing back then was pretty hot. Oklahoma had just put in a striper hatchery. I mention this because I guess this is why I am interested in stocking HSB. Boy!! do they fight
Is it true the HB will only reach to the 3 to 4 lb range here in N. Texas? What has been the life span in your fishery? Will the addition of well water to the pond help in cooling the waters, improving the fishery? And since you fly fish, do you loose the fish after the battle or have you found a way to bring them back from near death? So many questions George. And yes I have spoke with Todd about stocking the HSB next fall. And Thanks again George for updates on your experience.

Maybe his wife had someting to do with it too. She might not appreciate him trolling for strippers.

Is it true the HB will only reach to the 3 to 4 lb range here in N. Texas?
Not true – couple of N. Texas PBers have caught HSB up to ~10 lbs...the only one I have seen in our pond was laying belly up from a disastrous fish kill in 2011 record heat/drought. Made me sick at my stomach..
Larger pond/lakes have best odds of achieving 10+lb HSB – your 5 acre pond with good water quality should produce trophy size HSB.

Will the addition of well water to the pond help in cooling the waters, improving the fishery?
Absolutely – a well will insure constant pool level avoiding extensive periods of drought.
Be sure of your water quality. If you are in Piney Woods you may have acidic soil – HSB thrive in hard alkaline water – check with Overton – may need lime unless your well water compensates.

What has been the life span in your fishery?[/b
The longest period of HSB growth in our ponds has been about 4 years between fish kill.
James Holt has lots of experience with HSB – hopefully he will see and respond to your post.

[b]And since you fly fish, do you loose the fish after the battle or have you found a way to bring them back from near death?
HSB will fight to their death unless landed quickly, resuscitated and released. That’s the main reason I don’t fish ultralite fly tackle unless I am harvesting for table fare.
When I want to take photos, I put them in a O2 live well to resuscitate – I have a high survival rate with HSB but I do not target them when water temps exceed 80 degree F.



Hope this helps,
George

Hopefully some members like n8ly and Bruce Condello, and any others that have grown big HSB in more northern states will post some of their information. IMO about all Midwest pond stocking HSB come from Keo Farms and their cross of Sunshine Hybrid Striped Bass (female white bass x male striped bass). If those HSB don't die of heat and angler exhaustion, they can grow to pretty big sizes. I grew them to 27" and 12 lbs; females contained eggs. I have pictures of bigger HSB by n8ly. More testimony is needed by our northern members. A link to this thread will be in the Common Q&A Archives "When to Stock Wipers and other Notes".

TJ also has some in his pond that are in the 10#+ range.

Bill and Scott, I can only dream of the size of HSB you guys can grow in northern waters, but this thread is directed to managing growth and survival of HSB in southern hot water, extream drought conditions, that don't apply to northern waters.
George

The information in this HSB thread is good basic information about the hybrid striped bass regardless of where you live. Input from numerous experiences enhances our overall knowledge about these great and useful fish. Maximum sizes that can be achieved of the HSB will set goals. I am confident that southern pond owners will accept the challenge and when armed with good information will soon learn some new information as to how to grow the HSB to larger sizes than the 10 pound mark.

The archives are full of “good basic Information regardless of where you live” that many of us have contributed.
Your topic, “When to Stock HSB, Wipers & Other” is a good example, and IMO a good link to this one.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=397982#Post397982

I respectfully agree to disagree on this one – northern pond advice about Texas ponds is many times confusing to newcomers.
Cody note: the forum is what we are here for, to help those that are confused or unknowing to become wiser and successful pondmeisters.

Conventional wisdom is not always wise to the "unknowing".
Over the years I have received some very good advice from the forum experts, and some not so good - "it all depends"...

George, you just said a mouthful about regional differences. And it's not only about HSB.

Back when I knew a lot about ponds, I quite often gave disastrous advice to new and seasoned pond owners in locales different from my own. Al Hall said it best to me a couple of months ago when he said that the only thing he REALLY knew how to do was to manage his own slice of Heaven.

I think the best thing we have agreed to here is that "it all depends" and "every pond is different". And, it's not just regional. My neighbors ponds are similar to mine but a scant 100 miles away, in East Texas, can be a whole new ball game.

It took me a good while to catch on to the idea that BG/LMB stocking in colder climates was different in areas with more temperate(hot) climates.

Another good example is a recent thread about GSF totally taking over a pond up North. It dang sure doesn't happen here and I'm still trying to wrap my mind around that.

The 2 biggest considerations, to me, have been soil differences and Mama Nature.

Here is one of TJ's "minnows" that he graciously let us catch when we visited.

We did not weigh it (wanted to get it back in the water quickly) and TJ would be the one to estimate the weight as I have no clue.

OOP'S, we kinda did both back then. Stripers and strippers. But your catching my MS was funny

Thanks for everyone's comments. I now know more than I did yesterday!! THANKS Looks like an oxygen station is going up soon. Ok here is something to think about. The Ph is 8, and alk was 140 (I think) calcium was 40. Pond was treated with lime in the beginning (around 3.5 tons). Water well adds around 60 gpm and will raise the pond level about 1/2 inch per day. ( I think the soil banks are taking some of the water as the level rises in this new pond). This will be 3.5 acres of water when full(based on range finder) for the measurements. And water depth in the two different pools(divided by underwater land bridge 6' water depth) and is 10 foot on one side and 13 foot on the other side. The rest of the pond is 7 to 8 foot. So here is one of my questions. Can I raise two different predators to maximum growth. Overtons Jumper LMB and Overtons stripers will be the stockers. LMB in June and Stripers in Fall. What would you guys do from here? CNBG, RES, FTH and TFS have been stocked and should spawn by June. Where do I go from here?

Tracy, my answer is yes - I am doing it at the present time.
Your HSB will be feed trained but Overton's "jumper" LMB will be strictly on forage.

Managing forage base will be the key -I would heavely stock tilapia for incresed forage - that's not advice - it's sharing experience.
George

Thanks George, In discussion with Todd it was suggested 5lbs of Tilapia along with discussion of not to overpopulate this first season, and such things as crawfish stocking this spring and I will be attempting to locate and stock some grass shrimp as soon as I can get some vegetation to support them. I am thinking these would help with the CNBG and RES.

I never tell Todd what I want - only ask what I need.
I trust his judgement - he NEVER tries to sell extra stuff - only what you ask for.
G/

It is well documented the great state of Texas is large and diverse enough to have a really wide variety of pond habitats, as do many states, if for no other reason, soil conditions. Even in TX one size does not fit all pond owners. The rule is 'It All Depends' and that should be the first thing every pond owner learns.

""I never tell Todd what I want - only ask what I need. I trust his judgement - he NEVER tries to sell extra stuff - only what you ask for.""
It is sad that most all other 'professional' fish farm owners do not adhere to the same philosophy. That is what separates the best fish farms from the mediocre fish farms. Many fish farms have the goal of sales not the highest quality service.

Here is an approximate 10 HSB from a southern pond (but no drought issues and good water quality).

This is one of Todd's fish. About 4 years old.

Looks like I am all in Thanks again for the answers and pointing a guy in the right direction.