I changed the title of this post to Pond cost instead of Pond value, as I broke my own appraiser rule in distinguishing them!Nancy
I am appraising a roughly two-acre fishing pond in San Bernardino County. This is a desert area, with loamy sand soils. The pond is river fed from a river that meanders in the area.
My agency may be purchasing the property (and the pond) and I am appraising the property to determine what the property owner would have to spend to recreate the environment elsewhere. Any business activity associated with the pond is not included in this appraisal. Nor is the value of the fish.
I have read in other PB Forum posts that a rough rule of thumb to develop is a pond is $10,000 per acre. Is that still a good number today, in this area, and in these conditions?
Thank you
Nancy
I don't know how far 10'000 can get you building a pond. When The appraiser saw the 1 1/2 acre pond I put behind my house he added $60,000 to the value.
Thank you, Todd
Do you have any estimate to recreate the pond at your place?
For those new to "appraisal" I'd like to clarify. Appraisers are supposed to make a distinction between cost, price, and value. Cost is effectively what is expected/estimated to take to recreate something. Price is a fact, such as "I paid $20,000 for a new car" or "they were asking $20,000 for that." Value is an opinion.
When appraisers appraise, we are supposed to use "price" and "cost" data and then convert that to an opinion of value that is intended to reflect "the market." If PB Forums is the "market" and you all say the cost is expected to be $60,000 and that you'd pay $60,000 for the same then I as the appraiser will reflect that in my own opinion of value.
Todd's appraiser would have gone to the market to determine what buyers and sellers of similar property would pay for a property with his pond and converted it to $60,000 extra.
Thank you
Nancy
Nancy,
Lot of factors come into play when determining the value. If the pond is in good shape without any apparent issues it will definitely add value. If the pond area is overgrown, has algae issues, and stinks it might take away value because it would take money to fix it.
I would think that any water in a desert area will probably add value no matter the condition that it is in.
Thanks, Chris
I've changed the title of the thread to "Pond cost" - pond value is handled elsewhere.
My original question: I have read in other PB Forum posts that a rough rule of thumb to develop is a pond is $10,000 per acre. Is that still a good number today, in this area, and in these conditions?
Thank you
Nancy
In California I'd say it would be at least that much if not more. Higher cost for everything out there I assume.
To give you an idea of the cost here in Texas I had a 2/3 acre pond with a small dam and 3000 cubic yard dam built at the same time for roughly $8000-9000.
That included clearing the 2/3 acre pond area, 3000 yards of dirt moved, and a water control structure that went in the big dam.
As was mentioned earlier the pond condition will have a big affect on its value. I would not buy a race horse that is old and about dead. A pond (esp a California pond) contaminated with frequent additions of copper sulfate for algae control is a liability to the owner since copper is considered a hazardous chemical by some government agencies. Copper is stable in the environment, as is all heavy metals. This means the sediments when removed will have to be hauled to a hazardous chemical accepting landfill. Definitely a big cost to be considered. I would not want a pond with copper contaminated sediments.
In my area, North Central Texas, ponds are appraised at twice the value per acre than unimproved land.
Something also to take in to consideration is that all land cannot/ will not accommodate a pond. The fact that your and can or will is very appealing to the right person.
Thank you Bill and Dave
But back to construction costs. Todd has provided costs of about $12,000 per acre for his pond. Elsewhere in the PB Forum, the cost rule of thumb was $10,000 per acre. Would you agree that todays costs would typically fall in the range of $12,000 to $15,000 for each acre of pond? Understanding that there will be differences in location, terrain, vegetation...
Thank you
On the high end yes. Complete dugout ponds will be on the high end of that scale and damned up valleys will be between $5000-10000/acre. The less amount of dirt you move the cheaper it will be.
It also depends on what type of soil is there where the pond is being dug. For instance, the cost to dig a pond in soil that has a lot of rocks and it needs clay to be trucked in to seal the pond could be well over double the cost per acre of a pond that just needs to be excavated and compacted.
The cost of diesel fuel and any required permits will also drive up the cost of a pond. One area might not need permits and engineering studies done, other areas might. For instance, I renovated and enlarged my pond. It went from 1/4 to 1/3 ac acre to slightly larger than 1 acre. I burned almost 1,500 gallons of diesel fuel @ close to $4.00/gallon.
Also, how far the spoils have to be moved figures into the costs of a pond. If a person owns 40 acres of relatively brush/tree free ground, the spoils can be disposed of without much trouble. If the person owns 2 acres and wants a 1 acre pond, and the spoils have to be trucked away, that adds tremendous amounts to the costs associated to dig a pond.
I could see a 1 acre excavated pond, 12'-15 feet deep, in a probematic soil/rock area costing $40,000 to recreate. That's from start to finish, cover for the fish in the pond, all water control structures in place, erosion mats, grass seed, etc., etc.
I'll send you a PM with a bit more detail.
Thank you
At what cost end would a two acre pond in sandy soil in a desert environment next to a river, where water is five feet below grade fall?
Nancy
Is the pond lined with clay to prevent water level fluctuations that occur with ground water ponds? Is a well needed to keep the pond water level constant? What is the landscaping like around the pond? Bare dirt/smooth grass or something more elaborate? What is the bottom contour like? Is there pinnensulas and rocky structure for fish, or is it like a bathtub?
Just like a house appraisal, laminate countertops in the kitchen probably get appraised differnely than quartzite.
Slate roofs are a different price than 3-tab asphalt. You get my drift.
Thank you everyone for your responses. Scott, the list you provided in your last post is great - we call those "relevant characteristics" in the appraisal world.
I will be posting some pond data/ appraisal data later this weekend that I found for the assignment I'm working on. Please review it and provide it to your appraisers when they come to value your ponds!
Thank you
Nancy
Thanks Nancy! I know I'm not the only one that will be interested in your data. If you have any other questions, keep on asking!
Now a question for you. Would the fish population in the pond change the apprasial at all? Say trophy quality fishery vs. a pond that has no fish of any appreciable size, and might very well have unwanted fish in it. Sort of like a well manacured, landscaped lawn vs. one that is in disrepair and overrun with weeds.
Would a nice dock or pier on the pond change the value any?
Curious to hear what the final valuation turned out to be,
Thanks!
Nancy, I just built a 3.5 acre pond in the last 90 days. 12 foot deep, with a clay bottom. The cost was $45.000.00 here in Texas. If a water well is in the picture the cost of the water well including a down hole pump was $14,000,00, used to fill and maintain water depth. And the cost to do a stocking of LMB pond with forage fish was $12,000.00 I hope this helps
Tracy
Nancy, I'm preparing to build a roughly 10 acre pond in east Texas. Unfortunately this entails a rather large dam, 600 feet across and 30 to 35 feet in height at the maximum.
I got a quote of $125k to clear the land (pine trees), build the dam, build structure (humps, rocks, save certain trees), place sand to build a beach, and contour the shoreline. I'm told by those wiser than myself is actually a very fair price. Note this does not include fish stocking, etc.
I suspect the price is a little better now than it would have been a year ago because diesel prices have dropped.
I wound up spending close to $8000 for 1/4 acre in Missouri from hiring pour dirt guy. Get a good dirt guy with references. I had a few estimates and went with the most expensive one thinking he would do better job. Wound up draining leaking pond and having it redone. Your lucky to find Pond Boss first. Good luck.