Just purchased a 1.2 acre pit pond that is clear, 12-14 feet deep and filled with clouds of shiners only.

I only want walleye for now as the lone gamefish. Any advice out there for the number of fingerlings I should stock? There is little to no weeds for cover... Should I drop downed trees for the eyes to hide under since they don't like the sunlight(super clear water), or shouldn't I worry about it?

I was a subscriber back in 04'-05' without (dreamer) a pond. Now I'm pumped and can actually feel like I belong....

Thanks in advance!

If the pond truly only has shiners in it you might want to consider if it winterkilled everything else.

It was an operating sand pit up until a couple years ago. The former owner only put shiners in and had a minnow trap to collect bait. He was tickled to get loads of 2 to 6 inch shiners since they go for up to nine bucks a dozen at the local bait shops.

Hoping the pond won't winterkill. Was told it has springs but need to figure out how to test it to see if it does. Going to stock and hope they make it through this winter.

Thanks

Welcome to the forum J. Meyer.

Establishing some cover for your forage is probably a good idea. You can consider sinking some Christmas trees this winter.

Are you against stocking any other species as forage as well? I am assuming by shiners, you most likely are referring to golden shiners(GSH). To diversify the forage base, you can consider adding fathead minnows(FHM). I would stock a small number this upcoming spring, perhaps a couple hundred that you can hand sort to ensure there are no unwanted hitchiker species with the goals you have in mind. I would also consider stocking some yellow perch(YP) this fall before it gets too cold. If you stock advanced fish, they should pull off a spawn in the spring. Then you can stock your walleye(WE) next fall into a diversified forage base.

Next fall I would stock around 50-60 WE. You should be able to get yearling fish at 7"-9" in length.

Thanks

Not a good idea to have just a WE/GSH pond?

Possibly just add FHM?

This fall would be too early to put the WE in? Could I up the number WE stocked being the only gamefish?

Thanks for the help.

Having a diverse forage base would be better. Why are you so against stocking other species as forage for your WE?

You could certainly stock WE this fall, especially since you have a well established GSH population. You can always stock the WE and YP this fall in you break in and stock the YP. I would at a minimum stock some FHM next spring.

Mostly worried that the perch could overpopulated and take away forage and space that the WE could have filled.

Any WE and minnow only ponds out there?

Welcome back J. - and congrats on your new pond!

I think a WE/YP pond with GSH and FHM would be a great fishery. Remember fishing will be tough if WE are the only fish stocked - addition of YP will increase angling success and provide great fillets, too. Heck you could go so far as to stock SMB if you wanted, also. GSH can survive in a pond with SMB/WE/YP as apex predators - they have in mine for several years.

Consider adding additional forage like native MN crayfish or grass shrimp to the mix to help relieve pressure off the GSH. Both are easy to source and won't break the bank.

Keep us in the loop what you end up doing...we need some WE/YP fisheries to study so we can all learn together. I think Bill Cody is the only forum member with a specialized fishery of this kind.

I am sure Bill Cody will see this thread and weigh in... I would follow his advice as he is one of the if not the most knowledgeable person out there when it comes to managing ponds for YP and WE.

Adding some cover will help!! Sounds like it is the right habitat for WE to reproduce! do you have crayfish?? They may be another forage option.

You can manage either way: shiner-WE or shiner-FHM-WE-YP. The YP will not overpopulate if WE numbers are dense say 60-100/ac and YP will be scarce but commonly large. Generally the fewer WE you stock per acre the larger the top end size will tend to be and vice versa. The more you stock the smaller the top end size will be; example 90-120 per ac will result in slower growth and smaller top end size of 18"-20" which are the best eating size for WE - IMO. Fewer WE/ac (30-50) results in fewer walleye catches per angler hour and more abundant average smaller perch (7"-10"). If you want a little more total fish production in the pond, I would feed the shiners and or YP pellets. This will increase the overall carrying capacity of the pond i.e more fish pounds/ac.

Plan to Restock WE regularly based on number harvested each year. Add stock WE of 5"-8" are relatively cheap add-stock sportfish considering the food quality of the final product 16"-24" long.

Adding perch will provide more angling opportunities for especially less experienced anglers and when WE have lockjaw especially during sunny day angling. YP seem to always be willing to take baited hooks, not so true for WE. You could easily grow common perch to the 13" sizes and occasional 14"ers with some pellet feeding and correct number and size of WE/ac. Good written records and annual monitoring of the sizes and numbers of all species will improve the quality of the fishery.

Keep in mind that a 12"+ walleye can easily eat 1000+ small fish per year if it is growing an average annual length increase.

That sounds like a dream fishery to me.

Keep in mind that predator fish need abundant forage of the appropriate size in order to grow large. With only shiners in there your larger WE will have a tough time.

If these are GSH, they max out at 9-10". Pretty decent meal for any size WE. YP would help supplement though, that's for sure.

I would definitely feed the GSH pellets if that is all you are going to use for forage, even if you add FHM, I would still feed. I feed my forage fish pellets for the very purpose of allowing the pond to produce more forage fish per acre and thus more game fish.

How much larger does the forage have to be?


That's a SS in it's mouth.......

Nice GSH...

I put 200+ of them in my pond. Without habitat to spawn on, and habitat to hide in, they lasted less than 2 years.

J. Meyer, have you read this thread? http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=353184&nt=2&page=1

Holy crap what a shiner!! You put in 200 9" shiners and they got wiped out! By what? Fire breathing metal fish?

A 16" bass can easily eat a shiner that size. If there is no recruitment, it doesn't take long for them to disappear.

The potential of some 10-14 inch perch has me much more excited. I had visions of ten little guys surrounding my hook at all times. I think you guys sold me on perch now....

How would Black Crappie do in the mix, now that I've broken my WE only way of thinking?

I'll post some pictures of the pond and land in the next couple days.

Now I have visions of pulling massive perch through the holes in my ice shack......

Thanks for all the great advice!

That's why these guys look like this:

JMeyer - Forget the crappie for now. Don't loose sight of your initial goal of walleye. First, focus on establishing a walleye and perch fishery to see how it develops. As mentioned you should purchase pellet trained perch (4"-6" & a low percentage of 6"-8"), pellet trained so they will usually eat more pellets than shiners. Reserve most of the shiner population to feed the walleye. When you feed,, blend both Aquamax number 5 and 6; size 5 for the smaller perch and shiners and size 6 for adult perch. You will be amazed at the size of yellow perch that you can grow in that sand pit. Pellet eating perch will easily and quickly grow to 12"-13", with occasional 14" & 15"ers. Crappie can always be added later if forage seems to overabundant.

If it was my pond, and the forage became too abundant, I'd either reduce my predator removal, or think about a few SMB. Crappie wouldn't be a consideration. A WE/YP with forage pond could grow some great fish!

In my opinion and experience with good habitat, and casual management the SMB would eventually overpower the walleye fishery and deplete the shiner-FHM population. The Shiner-FHM combo will very likely perpetuate with only WE and pellet eating present. I have recently discovered that adult big FHM (3") can maintain a breeding population when only pellet eating perch are present.

Ideally you do not want the WE successfully reproducing. WE recruitment will prevent a good estimation of the size & number of the WE population. Thus one could easily get into a situation of too few shiners and slower growth rates.

I think large rocks/bolders and broken concrete (chunks & slabs) would be better habitat additions to the shallow areas 4ft-6ft deep than the "downed trees".

This particular special habitat pond is a very good way for many of us to learn more about walleye-perch management. Please use this thread to keep us advised of your progress. We like learning and sharing fish raising information on this website.

To do list:

-100 6" Walleye
- 2 gallons of Perch. They're pond run 15-100 fish per gallon.
- 4 pounds of FHM. A scoop or two a week after that.
- Brush pile/ Christmas trees for some minnow protection.
- Rock piles for walleye habitat. Plenty of nice size fieldstone on site.
- Plant some taller pines along shoreline to provide more shade during the day.
- Have a campfire and a leinenkugels next to the pond after we close on the property tomorrow.

Anything I should tweak or add?

Thanks again for all the advice!

A dock, you need a dock!

I am glad to see more people take an interest in WE.

When you say 2 gallons of perch? What type of fish are you referring to when you say "perch"?

Yellow Perch. They're usually a mixed bag of sizes. I organize the stocking of a 70 acre lake we live on for our association. They've come before with mostly little ones and they've come with borderline jumbos with smaller ones mixed in. They can fit a lot of little ones in a gallon bucket before they put them in the bags. Was $35.00 a gallon a couple years ago and the WE were 50 cents apiece for a 4-6 in incher. These guys do a better job producing fish than the Mn DNR.

A few years back some/one of their brood stock lakes had a very high water level and made it into the 33' legal road easement. Lets just say the locals took advantage.. Multiple 9 to 11 pound WE were caught. It was a big story in the news around here because they couldn't do anything about it. I heard they would dump tons of minnows in their lakes when their minnow ponds got overpopulated...

I might have to up the amount of minnows I put in.

Having a pond loaded with shiners sure sounds like a good place to start to me...
Wish I had that problem ....I'm always adding shiners....

If you are buying small this year's hatch of perch, I think you are making your first major mistake. For growing large perch you should be buying guaranteed pellet trained yellow perch that are 4"-6" and some of last year's pellet perch that are 6"-9" long. Buy perch by the each not by the pound unless the perch are 8"+ long. Be careful and cautious where you buy your brood stock initial stocker fish. They will be the basis of the genetics of the sport fish in the pond and will govern how well all fish progress from the start. Choose wisely. When feeding the perch pellets you can stock 350-500/ac (225-300 4"-6" and 100-200 6"-9"). No pellet feeding, then reduce total YP stocked to 150-300/ac.

I would start with 70-80 walleye and see how they progress and grow. Then stock 15-25 walleye each year for the next 4 years. At yr 3 and there after you can harvest 10-12 of the largest WE/yr.

Don't plant evergreens esp long needle ones closer to the shore than 50ft 70-100ft is better windbreak placement or you will get lots of wind blown pine needles in the pond - not good for water quality. I regret having evergreens too close to my pond.

If you are having to add FHM after the initial stocking with your GSH-YP-WE fishery, you have too many predators; reduce predator biomass, usu start with YP first. You should buy a minnow trap to monitor the shiner-minnow and small perch densities and size structure. Build yourself a larger mesh fish trap using 1/2 mesh. Fish traps are valuable tools for fish managers. Search fish traps here on the PBForum. There are some very good homemade fish traps shown and discussed.

Don't worry about WE having shade.
Use more rock boulder areas than trees for the WE-YP. They actually don't need structure to do well. Structure is mostly for the anglers. How far can fish go to hide in 1.2 ac??? Trees will quickly rot up in several years except for the 3"-4"+dia branches which Xmas tree rotting schedule might be shown in the posts of the thread for Structure Archives. Read the Structure, Cover etc thread here in the Common Q&A Archives for ideas for more permanent underwater habitat-structure.

Classic and invaluable Cody information...save this post and add it to your likely growing fishery management file. I just did!

OK here is a strange question. Considering decay, can you give a range of the number of Christmas tree to add per acre per year for structure? I have free access to an unlimited number from plantations planted in past years (mostly spruce).

Personally I would never again add Christmas trees to my pond even if trees were free and someone else put them in. I've seen how fast evergreens and woody branches decay. Plus I try to minimize as much as possible adding all organics which result in more unneeded nutrients in the pond. Fine branched trees and limbs do not last long enough; needles are gone in a year small twigs, branches in about 2 yrs, and large branches only remain for 4-5 yrs. I now prefer the PVC structures which not only do not decompose buy they are very lure snag proof.

Somewhere on the forum (maybe in the archives) there is a picture of x-mas trees taken year after year after year showing how fast they actually decompose/decay.

I also use PVC globes and trees as they are cheap, snag free, last forever and can be moved if necessary. I got most of my pvc for free from local plumbers who had scrap.

Pretty sure Eric West posted it in the Super Structure Thread somewhere.

Thanks, Bill.

Going to go with some black and white spruce that are native to Minnesota. Although I am going to make a bad move and add a couple birch, white and norways for eye candy. Going to try for a Canadian Shield lake type look. Also planning to bring in some very large outcropping style rock for parts of the shoreline. The spruce don't drop their needles so I hope I'll be ahead by the spruce not letting leaves from all the land from entering the pond.

Having a hard time finding the pellet trained Perch up here in Sota. Anybody know of someone that will ship up here? Thanks

Fake garage sale Christmas trees would be ideal if people are going artificial....... I would think.

My aesthetic goal for my pond at the house was the Canadian Shield lake look. Spruce do drop needles at least my black spruce do. It is pretty surprising how many needles they shed each year. I will try to measure how far my spruce are from the pond this weekend. I get the most needs during the stronger wind storms.

Univ Of WI at Madison fisheries people should know of sources of pellet YP in your region. There might be WI or MN aquaculture website for useful pellet trained YP. When wild YP are stocked into the pond it is harder to get them to accept pellets compared to BG. Actually pretty difficult unless they were pretrained prior to stocking. Do some good homework. Univ of WI did a lot of pioneer work with aquaculture YP and pellet raised WE.

Spring has finally started to show a glimpse up here in Sota!

I have 80 walleye fingerlings going in the pond in a week.. Still trying to locate those pellet trained perch around here.. Does anybody ship pellet trained perch out?

Started planting some white spruce along the shoreline with just a few white birch mixed in for looks. My hope is that the spruce will form a nice wall to keep future deciduous tree's leaves from blowing in. White pine and Norway pine will be staggered in behind to add height/depth and should end up with the north woods feel I'm looking for. Fairly tree-less right now..

Still trying to figure out how to get the pictures/video I promised on here.