I'm here with catmandoo, Todd3138, Victor, Dave Davidson, rmedgar, Yolk Sac, FireIsHot, TJ, Omaha, Condello and ewest, and Lusk.

Here's me with a 6 lb. LMB:

NICE -- I'm jealous, but NICE.

How was lunch?

That is one fat bass! Looks like you guys are having great weather too...

This is Victor with 6.5 lb. LMB!!!!:

Stubby Steves contributed a bunch of cool stuff for us to try:

TTI/Blakemore and TJ Stallings contributed a whole bunch of stuff too, included in the picture above.

Here's rmedgar (Randy) with a 4 lb. LMB!:

Looks like fun!

Lets see the jealousy inducing bluegills..

Dang! That DOES look like fun! Hope the weather holds out for ya, and that the fish keep biting!

Looks like a blast! But why the green carp pics and no bluegill??
Next year we need to do this or a fishing trip somewhere again...!!

Maybe they don't kniw how to catch bluegills?
Bruce doesn't seem to be there.

Looks like fun!!

very jealous

it looks like a wonderful place

Richmond Mills

LUCKY!!! Those are some of the fattest bass I've ever seen!

Where you been hiding? Let me guess, Grounded?...LOL

Yolk and I fished together this morning and boated 20-30 BG of at least a pound. He recorded the biggest of anyone today at 2 pounds. Condello and I spent the afternoon in the same boat and had about as much success bringing in around 25 BG of comparable size. These things fight like crazy. We got lots of greats pics that will be posted later, but suffice it to say, this place grows some seriously huge gills, not to overlook the fantastic LMB. Bruce and I hooked into a double on LMB at one point with nearly identical 4 and 4.5 pounders. Looking forward to what tomorrow has in store!

What a day.


I caught two species I've never caught before. Because of Pond Boss, I'd heard of flyers, but it has just been in the last few years. I caught several today. I also caught some kind of 7" fish called a rudd that looks like a golden shiner.

How about an action shot of Sunil's fish above?

Todd3138 with a Bluegill:



Condello with a Bluegill:

rmedgar (Randy) with a chain pikerel. How big do you think it was?:

2.8 lbs

Sunil did you bring a bucket if shiners for bait?

No, the only real live bait they like to use is (or are) crickets.

I caught most all of my bluegill on crickets and caught a 4.5 lb. LMB on crickets.

There are a type a shiner in this pond, and according to some of the guides, if you put one on a hook, you won't catch anything.

This place has some very atypical dynamics.

No not grounded I've just been very busy...It's not easy to maintain a 3 acer plot of land by your self. By that I mean my dad has had 5 back surgeries and can't do hardly anything meanwhile mom works so I do almost all of the property maintenance myself.

Thanks for asking!

Here's a bluegill pic.

Amazing BG!!!

How big was it?

I understand what you are talking about.. Great see you stepping up to help out though...

Gosh those bluegills wouldn't be hard to restore the colors as a taxidermist. Wow i can't believe how dark they are! Black!

That last bluegill pic is really something! very dark! Impressive fish!

Anyone know the size of the lake record gill?

Cecil, the water's very tanic. Most of the 1 to 2 pound BG I saw were very dark. The colors seemed more vivid in the smaller males.

We have lots of pics which are not up yet. Lots of storys . What a fishery -- a real enigma of the first order. Stubby Steve's went beyond the call of duty to get us a bunch of product to fish with. So did T J Stalings , the Richmond Mill folks were absoloutly great in all respects. Of course all of this was possible because of Bob and Pond Boss. There is a lot to this story yet to be told.

Bastagees!!!!

Im jealous.

Awesome guys. Looks like Sunil got warn out or the beer was too good.

That is one of the prettiest turtles I have ever seen that Todd is holding in that one pic...

Haha everything is above and beyond normal at Richmond Mill, even the turtles!

Omaha, that just is not right!Let the poor guy sleep will ya? Ahhh what the hell, did you paint him up? Or put his hand in warm water?

Hey there's a picture missing.....The one after the table showing the Stubby Steve display.........Maybe someone is in the pic, that was supposed to be on a "business trip" or someone was smoking a ceeegar, and was busted? LOL

I want to see what color Sunil's toenails are now after the nap.

On the Ivory at Richmond Mill (the jazz Steinway) with sponsors Stubby Steve's , Pond Boss , TTI/ Blakemore and The King Fisher Society (Richmond Mill / Jim Morgan family). Thank you for an epic event.

I tried that warm water thing in Boy Scouts. Didn't work. Really disappointed. Maybe an urban lengend?

Had more fun in ANG summer camp. Duck taped a guy to his bed after he came in soused. Also put an empty beer can under each bed post before he came in. It really scared the hell out of 'em when the bed slams down.

Looks like a good time. Nice lake!

I'm curious. Are those electric outboard motors?

Yes they are electric motors. I believe they are similar to the motors in golf carts.

Is it ok I'm sick with jealousy.. With all this rain and crap weather I haven't caught a decent Gil all year..

Here's me with a 2.25 lb. Bluegill:



Here's (2) pics of a 6 lb. LMB. The Boga Grip scales only measure by 1/4 lb. increments, so this would be my second 6 pounder:

Cool! That's nice. No obnoxious exhaust fumes. Quietly motoring along with only the sound of the hull slicing thru the water and the wind whistling in your ear. Sort of like sailing, only easier. At 5mph it probably feels like you're flying.

And I used to think that Jet boats were cool. Dang, I must be getting old.

Here's a video of one of the feeders going off. At around the 45 second mark or so, you'll see a GBH fly into the right side of the screen. It's wingspan was probably close to 6', maybe 7'. We were about 100' feet from the feeder. Josh (Omaha) is throwing a top water into the fray. Generally, we'd fish topwaters around the feeder starting an hour or so before the went off. Crazy!:

Here's ewest with a big LMB:

It was an incredible four days. I have no idea of how many fish I caught. Two of the BG were just short of 2 lbs. Nearly all were over a pound.

I wasn't having much luck using crickets or Stubby Steve's. Then I added a cricket to a hook that had one of the original type SS pellets. Yikes! I had BG stripping line off the reel.

It was a fantastic experience with some of the best people on this earth.

Guys, Thanks for coming down to Kingfisher. It was an absolute blast having you guys here and getting your take on things. It should be illegal to have as much fun as we did. I hope everyone made it home safe. Take care

Just a note for everyone...RM/Kingfisher currently has (6) boats, so the total trip was maxed out at twelve attendees plus the Luskie.

Gene, likewise it was great spending time with you. Gang, Gene is one of the guides at KFS and a heck of a good guy. He and the other guides worked their tails off to make sure we had an unforgettable experience on the lake, but I think we may have also left an impression on them. Well, anyhow I suspect that SOME of us left an impression on them, but we won't name names!

I agree with everything Ken said here. It was an incredible trip, made so as much as anything by the company. The Pond Boss family is amazing - meeting friends who you have known online only and finally spending real time together changes the whole dynamic. That's the biggest reason that all of us need to get involved in local/regional PB gatherings as it brings all together more closely and makes this great community just that much more special.

Richmond Mill Lake is incredible, too, producing amazing fish under some pretty interesting conditions, including tannic water with a pH of 5.8! The feeding program there - over 50 feeders on 130 acres - has produced amazing growth and very high quality fish.

We did luck out weather wise, I believe, as it was not as hot there as it normally is this time of year. The bite was easier because of that and the fish were all over the place, making it easier to get on them and figure out a pattern. It was interesting to see how the pattern changed a bit from day 1 to day 2 and even on day 2 how it changed a little bit as the day wore on.

All in all, a fantastic trip and one I'd urge any of you to consider adding to your bucket list!

Amazing fishery well documented with fabulous photography!
Glad I was able to "tag along" as a virtual participant.
Thanks,
George

I agree with George, nice to be there thru pics. Looks unbelievable.

Every time a group of Pond Boss faithful gather, I go away amazed at a variety of things. This time, at King Fisher Society's Richmond Mill Lake, 12 guys drawn by a common bond collected to enjoy two days of fellowship and fishing. There was lots of planning and I got to follow that process through a private message thread that numbered almost 1,000 posts during the last three months. I have to chuckle about that. 12 different guys, 12 different personalities coming together like a well-oiled machine. Catmandoo took charge of the food..as those of us who know him...expected he would do. ewest helped coordinate logistics and rendered organization. Teehjaeh57 handled the negotiations to set up the trip...that's what business developers do. FireIsHot and DaveDavidson made the road trip from Texas, collecting supplies along the 1,200 mile, two day drive. Todd3138 and Victor had never met most of these guys and they were excited to actually meet people with whom they have been friends for several years. It was like a family reunion with people they'd actually never met. Victor continually had a mile-wide smile, simply happy to be there, as he continually cleaned and quietly took care of the "little things" that he does. Omaha joined forces to help make sure tasks were done. Yolk Sac's thoughtful ways helped with simple things as courtesy and a refrigerator drawer of sandwiches that saved lots of time at lunch. Sunil was the welcoming party the entire time. His quick wit and ease with everyone gave rise to many chuckles and good memories. Bruce Condello was giving of his talents, too. rmedgar fit the mold as a team player, but was struggling to catch fish. Bruce picked up on it, joined the fray and put Randy on several personal bests. Around the fire pit at night, the group gathered, shared stories and nursed their favorite beverages. I think most were amazed at the majesty of the place, the uniqueness of the fishery and the time spent together. They'd heard the stories, now they have the experience. They all have knowledge about fish and pond management, but most were intrigued at the way this lake behaves. It's not "normal" as one said. Two other guys said, "This lake is an enigma."
They are correct.
But, the most interesting part is one which repeats itself every time a group of Pond Boss people come together. There's an energy and a bond that defies description. The chemistry works, everyone chips in and does what's needed for the good of the entire group.
The photo at the top of this post was shot by ewest and shows a peaceful sunrise...a fair description of this entire time together with these guys. Two from Pennsylvania, two from West Virginia, one from Georgia, one from Tennessee, one from Mississippi, two from Texas and three from Nebraska...different guys from different parts of the United States, together to do what all of them love to do.

On Saturday night, Josh/Omaha was a dead ringer for this guy due to his sunburned nose:



(or at least I though so....I was cracking myself up about it)

Here's a nice double of 1.5# BG.

Glad to have had the opportunity to meet and fish with the man, the myth, the legend known as el Victorino.

The body dynamics on those RM BG are so different from what I expected to see. Not that they aren't huge, but most bigger BG that I have seen tend to share the "frisbee" shape....nearly as tall as they are long. The photos you guys have posted appear to show fish that are long, with a very definitive slender transition from body-to-tail. And speaking of which, those tails are massive! If a small tail on a large fish is representative of a very quick growth, then do these photos show BG which are older, and much more slower growing?

I don't remember having that picture taken of me Sunil!

That is a great pic of you guys, TJ and Victor.

sprkplug, there were some gills that had the classic, circular, dinner plate look too.

Hey guys I just want too say thanks for posting the pics I know it takes time to take and post pics but guys like me really appreciate it..

Thanks
BGK

Sunil, Ken, Yolk, Bruce and Josh all topped the 2# mark I recall, and more guys probably too. I imagine those fish exhibited the dinner plate characteristics more than my sub 2# "dinks". I was intrigued by the CNBG I caught as they were so much larger and colored differently than any BG I'd ever caught before...the CNBG is certainly a beautiful fish. We did catch some pretty hefty Northern BG also - they certainly hold their own at RM.

I nearly missed the BG bite the entire first day of fishing as Bruce, Yolk and myself were reluctant to throw the cricket/bobber combo and were adamantly slinging artificials all day. Once I switched over to live bait on day 2, our boat [Todd and Victor] had a 75 BG day with 90% between 1-1.75#. I want to state that Yolk never quit his sniper casting jigs, however, and continued to catch massive BG throughout the trip. He's a deadly accurate caster and a world class human being, too...really enjoyed my time on the boat with him, Bruce, Todd and el Victorino.

Enrique, I laughed so hard I think I ruptured something that night.

Yep....it's not easy to catch large numbers of big BG without getting your fingers dirty! I love to throw artificial for Bluegills also, but fact is, live bait flat-out catches fish.

Dawn on day one at Richmond Mill Lake




The Morgan Home at RM.




Dining room at Morgan house




1.5 lb BG




Stubby Steve's and TTI/Blakemore/True Turn products



The Dam at RM




Ken with 1.9375 lb (1 lb 15 ozs) BG



Ken with a 1-12 lb BG





5 lb LMB




Snacks -- thank you Cat !

The live cricket rig was just a unweighted bobber maybe 15-18" above the hook, with two larger split shot halfway between.

Frankly, an ugly, ugly set up. BUT, lethal!

I guess with the reduced water visibility, such a cumbersome live bait set up would go unseen a bit more than in clear water.

How much water flows thru that lake? If that picture is indicitave of a normal flow, combined with the pH and tannic acid, I wonder if it has much of a bloom?

I want to see a pic of a 3# BG! I thought for sure, from the pictures a while ago that the 3# mark would be eclipsed on this trip.

Is it strictly catch and release? Or can you catch and keep? If C&R, how do the LMB keep the BG numbers in check?

It sure looks like everyone had a great time.

Does water always flow like that over the spillway at Richmond Hill? It make me wonder how many small BG get washed down stream?

Yes that is normal water flow. Sometimes even more.

"Small" BG?

Young of the year "small" in regards to this thread.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=26505&Number=339135#Post339135

I hope that I am not sticking my 2 cents worth into the wrong place, but that high waterflow is the "genius" of the Lusk feeding plan. Years ago, I believe they tried fertilizing that very low productivity water, and the water exchange rate is so high that there was not enough residence time for fertilizer in the water, and the nutrients would not get into the food web to increase it. So, Bob now puts the nutrients directly into the fish by feeding, and as you can see, the sizes, growth, and condition on bass and bluegill are way up as a result.

Yes Dave plus without much higher alkalinity the fertilizer would not absorb (work to create a bloom). With that much flow adding enough ag lime to do the job would be prohibitive. Those two limiting factors made the feeding option as the only effective method to grow bigger and more fish. The base of the food chain is mostly pellets (and some plankton but not a high % ).

From what I heard, the flow is 7,000 to 10,000 GPM.

They need to add a hydroelectric system to that lake and put that water to use!!

What a place!

To me, there was nothing normal about fishing this lake. My "deadly" tactics were useless.

To catch the bluegill, you had to cast within a few inches of the shoreline or grass beds using the rig Sunil mentioned above. More than a foot away would not produce anything. In about 60 years of bluegill fishing, moving the rig when you see or feel a bump on the bait, just a very small amount of movement almost always results in hooking into a fish. The bluegill at RM were like cats -- they were going to deal with us on their own terms and conditions. A moved bait, where they had to move a few inches to get it, was a no-no.

I did not see the bass and bluegill intermingling. Whether in my ponds, or in public waters, it seems that the bass and bluegill are usually in close proximity to each other. Not here.

There are monstrous crappie in this lake. I tried multiple types of small tubes and jigs that are usually extremely effective against bluegill and crappie when bounced off the bottom in most places I fish. I got a few crappie, and what they call "flyers." The flyers are some strange looking fish that look like a "photoshopped" fish made from a crappie, a rock bass, and some other sunfish.

As I believe I posted above, I found that the most effective bait for the big bluegill was a Stubby Steve's pellet, then an added live cricket, on a #4 long shank hook. As described by Sunil, the hook was about 18 inches below a float, with a sinker or two in between. Nothing like I'd ever use locally.

The comments by SparkPlug about the size and shape was another topic of discussion. Dave Davidson and Fireishot (Al) were fishing together. They each caught bass that were the same weight, but their lengths were very significantly different. I'm guessing Dave and Al are still traveling, but maybe when they get back they can tell us a little more about that.

Randy caught a chain pickerel that was the largest I'd ever seen. I don't particularly care for pickerel, having grown up catching their much larger cousins, the northern pike and musky. To me, pickerel are usually a lot like snakes. But, this pickerel was longer than most, and very thick and meaty. After being filleted by Bruce, I fried it a couple of different ways. It was very meaty and delicious.

The other thing that struck EWEST and me, after spending about 16 hours together on the water over two days, was the total lack of seeing any baitfish. I don't remember what he caught, but I think I only caught two small bass. Both about 10 inches with a Wr of about 1. All the rest of the bass were very large and fat. Same with the bluegill. I caught a large number of bluegill between 1 and 2 lbs. I only caught a few bluegill that were in the 6-8 inch range, and nothing smaller.

I wouldn't say it is a challenging place to fish. It is a unique place to fish.

Whatever it was, it sure was a lot of fun. With about only 10 minutes left of fishing on the second day, it was a far worse feeling that opening the last present under the Christmas tree.

Good summary Ken. I don't know why, but I caught 12 BCP while BG fishing over two days...totally unexpected. They ranged from 9-12" - seemed in good body condition, must be hammering zooplantkton and other invertabrates like grass shrimp and dragonfly/mayfly/caddis nymphs as I didn't see any evidence of a resident baitfish to keep them fed.

Yep, that kinda flow should produce a few watts!

Heard about this place here and it was mostly Condello catching dinner plates. New info in this thread, and I can see why it works!

+1 Bob!

Early on the first day, I retrieved my cricket rig and had a 1.5" bluegill semi-foul hooked on the line. The guide was surprised.

My guide did mention that there were a lot of grass shrimp and other tastees living in the grass clumps.

Now that the trip is over, how about those water moccasins?

Well, now I'm even more determined to somehow, someday, fish this BOW. A rig consisting of a hook, swung 18" beneath a float, with split shot between the two....and a cricket for bait? To me, this sounds like the all-time classic BG setup. I would expect to find that this method has probably accounted for more BG over the years than all other techniques combined, countrywide.

Another thought....we've had the discussion before about fed fish being hard to catch fish, or at least extremely particular fish. Many have reported not experiencing this phenomenon, while myself and some others are convinced otherwise. I know I see similarities in our HBG pond when compared to RM, particularly in the fact that natural forage is apparently very limited. I know that many here feed in a supplemental manner, striving for more of a balanced scenario....is it possible however, in a situation where pellets make up the bulk of the diet, with little to no natural forage available, coupled with a heavy policy of catch-and-release, that it might result in the situation presented here, where the fish are extremely particular in what they want to see, and how it's presented? Speaking in regards to BG mostly?

I can't help but feel that this sounds like my kind of water, and my kind of BG.....I see similar behavior from my own fish nearly everyday.

Sparkie, you'd think you'd died and gone to heaven.
[Or maybe not, but you know what I mean.]

I'm finally back in the hood, and Dave is on his way to pick up the grand kids. We successfully drove almost 2,700 miles over the last week, and it was absolutely worth it. Dave not once pulled out a gun, and I avoided serious jail time so that made the trip even better.

Dave has the native/feed trained LMB pics, but the difference was incredible. First time I had ever even seen a feed trained LMB, and the new larger Stubby Steve's came through like a champ. Several times, I waited til the feeder threw, then launched the SS's straight up in the air, and let it splash. The fight was on almost immediately.

I may forget to say this again, but B Lusk did good. RM's is unlike any other BOW I have ever fished, and the water flow limitations made this a science project at best. This project was definitely a success. I never ever thought I would say "This BG is only a 1 1/4 lbs". Strong work Boss!

I'd like to add one more thing. Any time an opportunity comes up to attend a Pond Boss get together like esshup (Scott) has coming up, don't miss it. The fellowship made this trip successful and fun for all. Putting faces to names makes virtual friends real, and memories last forever.

Like Esshup mentioned, I too would be interested in hearing how the fish are kept in balance.

Same here Al. I caught a 4 lb LMB and the guide said, "want a picture" and I said "naw, I got a picture of that 5 pounder". Never, ever dreamed that I would utter that phrase.
The trip was great! I have to say that I fished the last session with Bruce, and that is an experience! Basically, Bruce was the guide, and our guide baited my hook. Bruce would not even fish until he had put me on about 8-10 1.25- 1.75 BG (all exceeded my PB).
Our guide was great and open to Bruce's help. He even said that the guides all try to make sure that they get to go with Bruce at least one session. After Bruce could see that I was satisfied, he lead us to a spot where we caught at least 35 LMB between 3-5 lbs.
The fishing, food and friends made this a trip I'll never forget!!!

I hung one LMB that started stripping line off a spinning reel. I never turned it and it broke off. No idea how big but I figure it was a very impressive fish.

I caught several bass in the 4-6 lb. range on the live cricket rig.

What does a LMB who just ate several golf-sized balls of super high protein pellet food need to eat a basic cricket for?

Dessert?

Look for more in the next issue of PB mag.

I will guarantee you that have never seen a lake like RM. It is an absolute enigma. Lots of big fish which you can catch but never figure out. It proves that balance in a fishery is like balancing on a knife's edge in an unstable state between 2 opposite stable states that you try to avoid. RM has lots of big fish in an unbalanced state.

If you get the chance to go to a PB event go - you will never forget the friends you make. Same for RM , Stubby Steve's , TTI Blakemore and Pond Boss -- help support them as they made this trip possible.

This place is the Jurassic Park of Big Bass and Bluegill. It is a freak of nature.

Really, if you would tell someone that you could grow bass and bluegill this size without being able to fertilize and there is 10,000 gpm leaving the lake and, by the way, the pH is below 6, and ... you get the idea? But it works. And the fish are still hungry enough to smack a variety of baits before during and in between feeder times.

Lessons learned here can be applied to each of our bodies of water too. This is one of the things I learned this week. Every body of water is so different for each one of us. Climate, soils, vegetation, water quality and supply, etc. Then we add our own personal goals into the mix which creates many more variables to consider. But the more you learn the more you can apply to your situation. And the more results you get and share is what I call the Pond Boss Forum.

So I got to meet a bunch of this Pond Boss family at Richmond Mill. Everyone probably already knows this, but the PB family has some quality people. They never stopped asking about my pond and providing great feedback. We talked families, we talked business, and we talked fish.

I have to be honest, I am not a great fisherman. I just don't get to do it enough. The guides still were able to put me on fish, were more than happy to tie on new lures or to try another bait, provided some guidance, etc. I was lucky to have two guides with a great sense of humor. Randy and I were laughing along with the guide at one point the boat was rocking. Anyway, it was all fun and games until my first strike on a Stubby Steve crawfish bouncing off the bottom. It literally almost ripped the rod from my hands. Needless to say I lost that fish but gained an immediate appreciation for what we were dealing with in this lake. Big Bass and Big Bluegill. My personal best of both were caught on this trip by the way.

Thanks to the staff there and to the Pond Boss group. A time to remember.

Whoever has the pics of Al's big LMB caught on a big Stubby Steve's pellet please post them !

What is the record LMB for that lake?

Is it catch and release only?

I want to say the record LMB is around the 8lb. range, but that fish may only be 3 or 4 years old. That all needs confirmed.

We were told we could keep all crappie, chain pikerel, and yellow perch that we caught.

As a bonus, Lusk wanted to dissect a few bluegill to see what was going on, so we were able to keep 5-8 per boat or so, but that was a special case.

Generally, for LMB and BG, it is strict C&R.

I want to fry up those BG in the worst way.

We fried them up in the best way. But, I'm sure they'd even be good when fried up in the worst way!

We fried them up in the best way. But, I'm sure they'd even be good when fried up in the worst way!

Al's big LMB picture please!
Dave's fish as well - that would be news - I don't think I have EVER seen a picture posted on PB forum by DD1 - and I know he catches big fish!

He and Al are both very modest guys, not into self promotion, but I know for a fact that they both catch big fish.
George

I wonder if Richmond Mills/Lusk will get HSB in there.

We discussed this on the ride back to the airport Sunday. Bruce seems to think it's unlikely due to the competition it would create. With already limited natural forage, the HSB would directly compete with the largemouth and spook the bluegill off the pellets. They would no doubt flourish in there with the abundance of feed though.

Do I recall a previous post of largest RM LMB at 8lbs?
A 5 lb HSB will outfight an 8lb LMB any day in the week, if RM goal is sport fishing.
HSB are put and take fish (or released to fight another day) - what I have learned from this thread RM are "catch, photo and release" fish that someday will have to be restocked and start over, unless an annual LMB "stocking ladder" is implemented.

I have never observed HSB spooking CNBG off their feed - a feeding frenzy of both!
G/

It would be interesting to put in a few HSB just as a bonus fish.

The BOW is approx. 140 acres....maybe put in 100 advanced sized HSB, and let it be a super surprise for someone to hook into one.

Then again, RM is not 'broken,' so maybe the shouldn't 'fix' it!

I'm curious as to how you guys would classify the fishery at RM? For trophy BG, for Trophy LMB, or balanced? .... ( I know, its FANTASTIC. but I'm curious about how it would be looked at management wise)

With the size BG you guys have shown, I have never seen bigger so consistently , so that makes it trophy BG to me. The LMB are big, but it seems like I have seen reports in the past of some ponds producing bigger.

I am not sure HSB would do well in RM... It has a low pH and I am betting the alkalinity is next to nil. No way to lime it because of the extreme flow through. HSB thrive in hard water conditions, not soft water like RM has. There is a reason CP and fliers are doing so well in it. They love those water conditions.

I am working on a PB article on exactly that. Stay tuned.

Eric rules!

Bob did comment that the lake had a heavy population of suckers IIRC. They are the biggest % of fish by weight.

EWEST posted his comments to the same questions, while I was composing my rambling thoughts below. Please take mine in stride. I defer to my good friend Eric's thoughts and comments.

After the time we spent there, with experienced guides, I don't think I can reasonably answer your very valid first paragraph.

As Bob said, the lake is an "enigma." It is totally unlike anything I've fished in my 60+ years of fishing many days a year over that time. In North America, I've fished from Manitoba and Ontario to Maine's Bay of Fundy, to the Gulf Coast, both freshwater and saltwater. I've fished the west coast. I've also fished crazy places like the lagoons of Midway Island, and the bridges of downtown Stockholm, Sweden.

This was very different. I'm not sure this is fair, but it was like being in part of an Alfred Hitchcock or Steven King scene -- except we felt no fear. It was peaceful and serene. It was incredibly beautiful. The entire scene was fun.

To catch a fish, you nearly had to bonk it on the head with a bait or lure. The fish were basically very lazy, and wouldn't chase a bait -- not even an inch. But, once you got that fish on your line -- watch out! If I recall properly, I had two bluegill and one bass break the line on appropriately sized lines/rods, with the drag set properly.

Interestingly, I believe that nearly every fish I pulled in was "lip hooked." Fishing my ponds and public waters for big BG usually results in 10-20% that are deep hooked, gill hooked, or hooked outside of the mouth. The hooks we were using were no different than I normally use. The baits weren't that much different. I think it may have been because of the lethargy of the well-fed fish.

I would agree that it is a trophy BG lake. I caught my "personal best" BG more than once, even though I have some pretty healthy BG in my ponds.

I may have caught my "personal best" LMB. I've never been much of an LMB fisherman. I was mostly fishing for BG, but the guide set me up with with a few rods with braided line and bass baits. I wasn't there to fish for LMB, and I've never really kept track of the largest LMB I've caught.

Whatever it was, my "personal best" probably came out of the brackish waters of Back Bay, on the VA/NC border, just south of Virginia Beach, VA. Back in the late 70s and early 80s, we could easily boat over a hundred very big LMB in Back Bay in a morning or afternoon, many over 5 lbs. We just dragged them in, marveled over them while we unhooked them, and sent them back into the heavy weeds. Unfortunately, that fishery has been destroyed.

I fished for LMB, on and off over two days at RM when the BG weren't cooperating. I caught a few in the 1 lb. category, but also some really impressive fish. I don't even know what my largest was. Somewhere between 3-5 lbs? Still, very impressive. The Wr on the 1-pounders was probably right around 1.0. Yet, the Wr on all the bigger bass was very high. We believe we caught native bass, feed-trained bass, and bass that were born in the lake from various types of parents. They all looked a little different.

From a management perspective (and I'm no expert), I believe it would take more than two days on the lake with a team like we had, to determine what is going on. Two days of fishing, with Pond Boss type people, would probably be needed in early spring, late spring or early summer, mid-summer, late summer, autumn, and late-fall/early-winter to know what is really going on.

I believe that shocking, during any season of the year, would only tell part of the story. There are enough deep areas and inaccessible areas, that shocking would only be a partial story.

Anyway, those are my crazy opinions and observations.

Ken

I'm wondering about long-term. I've always thought that a balanced fishery can be somewhat self-sustaining, with a tweak here, and an adjustment there occasionally. But an unbalanced, CPR driven BOW? Will it run its course, (fish wise) and then start a gradual decline, without an aggressive, hands-on stocking program, like those of us with put and take ponds are used to dealing with?

Tony,

I believe those are the same concerns and questions that Bob Lusk is struggling with. For him, they are on a much larger land-use and monetary scale than you and I are dealing with as mostly very serious hobbyists.

Ken

Eric, I should have asked before, but where is that water coming from?
I'm not familiar with the geology of that area but very curious about the rocks.
Karst topography?
G/

Ok... Will look forward to that. I will assume that questions/answers that pertains to the article and this thread might be discussed after it's published.

Will the article include the history of management that got RM to this point? I hope so, and if not, I hope there will be a "go to" reference in it for just that. Perhaps you guys have already delved into this years ago and I just haven't heard about till now. Don't mean to re-hash something if it's been done before.

Yolk Sac was present when Luskie was describing the water source. He seemingly absorbed more that I, and went further to comment about the lack of limestone filtering, I think.

Perhaps he'll weigh in.

Water source is 3 creeks that drain into the basin which holds the lake, which are in turn fed from runoff, and some springs that are fed by runoff, from many square miles of what is basically pine forest growing in extremely sandy soil-not hard to see where all the tannins come from!! There is minimal to no limestone in the drainage basin, mostly just deep layers of relatively coarse silica covered by a thin layer of soil and deep pine compost. The soil does a fine job of filtering particulates-but offers basically nothing to buffer the tannic acid coming from the pines.

Sunil really perked up while we were talking about filtering, but as soon as he realized we were discussng "limestone filtering" instead of "cold filtering" his attention seemed to wander.

That part of the United States is awesome. Look up Lake Waccamaw, which is a natural lake that is rather large not too far from there. There are actually two species of fish endemic to it. The Waccamaw silverside and the Waccamaw darter. My mother-in-law lives in that part of NC. Some very interesting ecology. For those of you in the Midwest who are familiar with fox squirrels that are orange/black in color, the ones in that area are insane! Some of jet black with white eye patches, others are silver with black eye patches and a few are other strange colorations. Just a neat part of the country.

What kind of suckers? Lake chubsuckers?

If they are the ones Bruce had pictures of, they are spotted suckers. My guess is, they make up the back bone of the forage base in RM. They are a smaller species of sucker, rarely getting over 15". YOY reach about 2-4". Perfect size for being preyed on by most sizes of predators.

Here you go guys. Enjoy !

]

Might add it is a tannic acid swamp with pines and hardwoods. Has high water flow and no limestone. A coastal/lowland type swamp.

Article will cover the human element and observations on the trip and RM.

Good lookin' Fliers......

Great pics Eric! Looks like "Billy Gibbons Jr."
caught some nice bass which is no surprise.
If Pond Boss ever had a bass tourney my money
would be on him. Looks like ya'll had a trip of
a lifetime.

Fliers are about pulling in a weed.

I have all of the pics but I have a mess on my PC due to downloading Skype. It brought a lot of baggage and I can't even link to anything. Internet Explorer is shutting down a lot. If I have a virus, I don't want to send it to anybody.

Lusk pulled a lot of pics off my camera.

Bruce likened the fliers' fight to reeling in a tissue.

What was the water temp there?

Temps changed a lot. Air temp was 10 degrees cooler than normal. Because of the high flow and shallow water temps in RM can change quickly and shut off the fish. I heard several very different water temps stated but my guess is about 80F. Probably dropped from 85 to 80 in a day or two due to rain and cool runoff.

Some very nice looking fliers. Did anyone catch any Enneacanthus species on this trip? I know RM has all 3 species in it.

Dang, stumbled across this video. Looks like you don't even need to leave the dock to catch nice bluegill.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=fish...amp;FORM=NVPFVR

In the morning, water temps were like 76/77F. By mid afternoon, it was around 84F.

Whoa! Just goes to show you what strong sunlight can do to dark water in a short amount of time!

Its greatly affected by lots of water (cold rain)flowing in. Its temps can change rapidly with water flow.

I did not see any.

FYI for others

Enneacanthus is a genus of freshwater fish in the sunfish family (Centrarchidae) of order Perciformes. The type species is E. obesus, the banded sunfish, and the species of this genus are known collectively as the banded or little sunfishes.

The Enneacanthus species, all of which grow to a maximum overall length of about 10 cm (4 in), are native to freshwater lakes, ponds, and estuaries along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts of the United States.

All three species are kept as aquarium fish by hobbyists.

Etymology [edit]

The generic name Enneacanthus derives from the Greek εννέα (nine) and άκανθα (thorn).

Species [edit]

There are currently three recognized species in this genus:[1]
Enneacanthus chaetodon (S. F. Baird, 1855) (Blackbanded sunfish)
Enneacanthus gloriosus (Holbrook, 1855) (Bluespotted sunfish)
Enneacanthus obesus (Girard, 1854) (Banded sunfish)

I really appreciate all of the diverse fish pictures from RM!
Thanks to all!
A true representation of the actual size and condition of LMB and BG.
G/

Here you go Stubby Steve’s – thanks to DD1 and Al for the pics


Large LMB in excellent condition – best one I saw on the trip (I did not see most though)




Proof that Stubby Steve’s big LMB pellets work

Here are 2 more from DD1 and Al

Osprey nest with the King on top





Another SS CNBG by Al

NICE!
Thanks Eric, I have been waiting for these pictures - I would have loved to listened in on the conversation between Al and Dave - woulda been a classic!

Al/FireIsHot has some native American blood in him.

That's why he doesn't smile for pictures.

He still thinks it steals his spirit or something like that.

He may not smile for pictures, but he sure is a happy dude, and one heck of a lot of fun to be around.

He also tries to tell you that he grew that beard in just under (7) months.

Al's beard 17 November, 2012
N.E. Texas Get-Together...

I might own him a hundred gold smoullions......

Ha! I told you.

I spent 40 years shaving every day, getting a haircut every month, and being a public representative to whoever I was working for. Ain't gotta do it any more.

I save my smiles for friends, and I darn sure made a few last week.

What's keeps a disabled boat from flowing over spillway? Just wondering.

An anchor...

I was drafted into the US Navy in 1969. In October 1969, CNO Admiral Zumwalt declared we could have beards and beer so we could better enjoy Viet Nam! I've had a beard ever since -- almost. I've drunk a few beers since then, too.

When I started to grow my beard in October 1969, a old crusty WWII Navy Chief told me that if I stuck out my tongue, I'd look just like a hemorrhoid!

Oh well. What can I say?

Since October 1969, I've only been without my beard for about three months. That was in 1971 when I was working aboard a ship in Pearl Harbor where they were daily spraying the bulkheads and air ducts, in the spaces I was working in, with liquidized asbestos. The asbestos was so hard to get out of my beard each evening, I decided to shave it off.

Those boys sure tried hard. We brought them some bait when they were inches from the dam.

The dam has a lot of surface area, so the water depth going over the dam is only about 1-2 inches. The boats have at least 12 inches of draft, probably more like 14-18 inches. If a boat edges up against the dam, its draft is too low in the water to pull it over.

With that, I can just imagine a cell phone call from Sunil while he is hurtling down river, somewhere between Wilmington and Myrtle Beach, saying -- "Hey dude, I think I may need some assistance ..."

Ken, that's funny. I was on my ship from 10/68 - 10/69 and we had to put in a "chit" (request) to grow a beard. I did, and was rejected!! I've had some form of one ever since I got out in '70. "Rejected" what a load of crap...........

More likely-

"Hey dude, I think I may need some assistance, I'm out of Peroni."

Any of you that fished at the spillway probably noticed the multitude of local anglers fishing off the bridge. Now I've got this picture stuck in my head of them slinging hooks at Sunil as his boat floated down the river, trying to make him the catch of the day.

If Sunil had hooked that 50 lb flathead it would have pulled him over the spillway. You bet the guys on the bridge would have had a good laugh !!

I believe we were told that 7,000 gpm flows over the spillway. I need about 2 hours of that in Texas.

A few more photos from the trip that were shared with us recently. Thought they turned out really well. Bruce is nearly as good a photographer as he is an angler.

Very nice...

Thanks Omaha !! Very nice - trophy fish !!

You guys get up any pics -- we need to fill this out.