Ok next spring I am going to go for it and stock some Tilapia in at least 4 ponds, some are ours and others are some friends etc.

We can use the 1 acre stocking method and I can either multiply or divide those numbers once we recalculate the surface area next spring.


My goal for each pond is different and need to know how many to stock based on the following:


Pond 1
Stocking them to feed on and clear the muck from an old pond no current fish population.


Pond 2
Stocking them to feed on and clear the muck from an old pond that has a few LMB and HBG.


Pond 3
Stocking them for algae and vegetation control (as well as forage), many fish present, GSF, HBG, LMB, CC.


Pond 4
Stocking them to grow out to transfer to other ponds or for food in the fall, no known fish population.



Please let me know what sizes are recommended for each and how many should be stocked.

Thanks

Any ideas from the experts?

I can tell you this I hope you have deep pockets! Cause it's going to cost you some pretty good green to stock 4 ponds!!

I have a 3/4 acre pond and Rex told me once with my muck issues he reccomended 10 pounds of TP for the one pond. I think if I remember right it was 25 dollars a pound but don't quote me on that.

That is why I am trying to get an idea how many I need for each situation. If I can afford to do them all next year I will, if not I will take the ones I see most beneficial to myself or friends and go that route.

I hope to get some ideas as to how many I need so I can start planning and saving for the event.

Thanks

Here in Texas you can get Tilapia for $10 a pound from most suppliers including Todd Overton. Most of the things I have read suggest 7-10 lbs per acre. You could stock now and might get a month or two tops before they die off. Next spring stock when water temps are above 60 and you know they will stay there. If the temps drop back down, your Tilapia might die off. If you do this each spring, your bass will have ample forage all spring and summer.

Check with Todd Overton for stocking rates on your various ponds.
He may have sold out for this year but getting late this year anyway.
His costs are $8.00/lb

Don't know about N.E. Oklahoma but in N.E. Texas no such luck on vegetation and muck removal - FA control and forage only.

Five to ten lbs tilapia/acre stocking rate for our ponds depending upon FA problems.
Six years experience tilapia program - they are a magic bullet!
Good luck

ezylman, in Tx., only Mozambique are legal for stocking. TX has a long growing season, and water heating costs for overwintering are at a minimum. Plus there are several suppliers so the volume and competition lowers the price. TX is also about the only state that has a mostly mixed sex stock of tilapia (Moz.) grown primarily for pond stocking. Mozambique and the far more common Nile tilapia do very poorly outside very warm climates. There is a vast differance in not only what each tilapia species can do, but the results are even more pronounced in different climates. This difference makes stocking rates vastly different as well in each climate.

Pure strain Blue Tilapia, (what I supply) have a comparatively much lower cold tolerance than either Mozambique, Nile, or any hybrid tilapia. This lower cold tolerance allows Blues to reproduce at colder temps than others and in same-length growing seasons, Blues can produce nearly twice the number of offspring than other tilapia's. The higher reproduction is NOT a good thing in warmer TX climates, but a must for colder climates, roughly from North American Hardiness zone 8a and lower. (8a is the transition zone)

Texas is rather unique for supplying Tilapia because there is a large demand for pond stocking that could be filled, yet did not really exist anywhere else outside the state. I set out to supply a Tilapia species that would live longer in colder climates, therefore satisfying and increasing, even creating the demand with a Tilapia that could produce RESULTS. There are other tilapia suppliers that have fish at a lower price, but they are not showing the desired results, mostly because of either mostly male stockings and reduced cold-tolerance/reproduction potential.

One large central US fish farm tried distributing tilapia and got them at a low price only to tick off a lot of customers from a lack of results. They found out quickly what most people do when they stock solely based on price....All tilapia are NOT the same. They lost a few clients, but worse, they ruined a potential market with inferior fish! In this fish farms case, he purchased hybrid fish for pond stocking that were primarily grown for the food industry. The fish were 95%+ males and there was virtually no reproduction. All Male stock makes up probably 95% or more of all tilapia produced and raised in the United States.

As with ANY product, small orders will alwyas be more expensive than large orders. As an example, the 10 pound order RC51 mentioned would cost him $25/lb and have 700 miles of transportation cost, 12-15 hours of delivery labor cost, 8-10 months of growing cost with untold hours of labor involved, etc....probably close to $800 to deliver a $250 order......there has to be the large volume to cover the expenses and the volume takes time to develop and lower prices.

Rainman,

You have an idea what rates I would need for the situations I have above?

I am sure Blues would be my best option based on location and what I am wanting done, but I may be off base here.

Please let me know what you would recommend, and if you will either be through Oklahoma next spring or how close you will be where I could meet you at that stop.

Thanks

Blues have shown to do a good job with muck removal....What city are you in? Northern Oklahoma can be tricky on stocking rates with the wild climate swings and wind.

Hey RM,

Nothing wrong with having to turn a profit hey! I know you go through a lot of man hours rasing them pure Blue TP and to ensure quality fish! Hard to put a price tag on that! Make no bones about it boys Rainman is the guy to get TP from he knows his stuff and he is NOT going to dissappoint you that's for sure! And if something does go wrong he will have your back there is no doubt.

Corey, I appreciate the Kudos.

Yes, we all have to turn a profit. It's also not easy (or cheap) to introduce something to new markets that can do so much in a pond.

George1 likes to call them a magic bullet, and they are in the right situations for certain goals. That is what makes giving blanket stocking rates immpossible. Every pond, goal, and climate is different.

That is why I tried to explain what my goals are for each pond above. If there are other variables you need please let me know.


As far as the ponds locations:


Some are just north of Nowata.

Some are just west of Bartlesville

This is based on the Tulsa/B-ville area with the Blue Tilapia stocked in the standard UNGRADED 7-9" average sizes and your stated goals on each pond. Other 50/50 mixed sex tilapia species would need to be stocked at a rate 70-125% higher for comparative results. It is also for a first year stocking---future stockings would need adjusting and are usually around 20%-50% lighter for maintaining the seperate goals.

Wow that is some high stock rates, and this would be adjusted for size of pond as well? For instance one main pond is about .3 acres.

How many fish do you get per pound?

Also would it be possible to use a smaller fish to start out with say 3-6 inches? If so would the pounds stay the same?

I thought I had read that the smaller fish actually eat more of the muck etc. than the larger fish, is this true for the Blues?

Fish per pound can vary from <1->15/lb but will average 3-4.

You are looking at the stocker fish short-sightedly---Yes, smaller fish are more voracious eaters, but in 2-3 weeks your 4-6 inch stockers are now 7-9 inches long and producing 1000's of babies versus 100's each spawn. Starting with larger fish will produce far more fish and total flesh grown (nutrients consumed) in the same growing season.

Your goal of Muck removal sounds easy, but that muck has to be converted to flesh. Dig out a cubic yard of muck, dry it and see how many pounds it weighs....it takes a LOT of fish to eat a lot of food!!!

Rex, in all fairness to you and Overton being friends of mine, and wanting both of you to be successful in your business, and to be fair with Mr. Hello, I wanted to share my successful tilapia experience with Mr. Hello.

As you say N.E. OK may be in a transition zone, Mozambique may be as successful as Blue tilapia.
Overton has a representative in N. Texas and a pick-up would eliminate a very expensive delivery charge.

Overton as well as you, has a vast knowledge of the various tilapia species and a reputation for supplying high quality fish grown out on his fish farm as well as out of state reliable suppliers..

I personally would ask for bids from both you and Overton.
Maybe Todd will chime in …..

Not a problem George. I refer a lot of the more southerly inquiries to Todd because it would cost the customer less. In your case, you use the tilapia primarily for algae, plus you manage your water far better than most. That makes a HUGE difference in what rates need stocking. In this case, having lived in Mr. Hello's area while in College, His climate is far cooler than your's (8-12 weeks shorter) and the Mozambique and Niloticas just don't last nearly as long as they will in your area. I have also followed Mr Hello's descriptions of his ponds, muck/plant problems and they are bigger issues than most have. We may have even spoken at length on the phone and that may have led to him joining the PBF.

Rainman referred me to Overton's and I've been happy with the tilapia I got from them. Pond is clear of FA and there are schools of small tilapia swimming all over the place right now.

I stocked 30# in a 2.5 acre pond for $240 +gas and they have done wonders. And they are a lot easier to work with than chemicals.

Last weekend while hand feeding the channel cat I saw one tilapia come up and eat a couple of pellets that looked like it had about quadrupled in size from when I stocked them in late May. They were all in about the 5" to 7" range then.

Stumbled across the place I think is their North Texas affiliate just West of Gainesville a couple of weeks ago. Sure am glad to know about them because that cuts about 6 hours of driving time off the trip to Buffalo, TX from Ardmore, OK.

This is why I posted this to get some ideas as what could work, and most important get feedback from people that have actually used them for similar goals as I have stated above.

I just hope I can afford to do this next year, if nothing else I plan to at least make one of them happen.

They aren't a sure thing magic bullet. Some friends of mine stocked 150 pounds, yes POUNDS, in a 1.5 acre pond for FA Control. This was after having it sprayed with Cutrine Plus.

The FA came roaring back with a vengeance. I told them to forget about it for this year and we will start earlier next year.

Seems like ponds without a fish population, might be better renovated with a pump, and heavy equipment? Guaranteed to remedy the problem, and you are not losing a population that you have built. Might invest the money stocking tilapia in ponds that you want to maintain in good health. So it would seem that ponds 2,3 and 4 are tilapia candidates, while pond one is a candidate for an excavator.

This would be ideal to fix it as needed, I just thought I might try some Tilapia until we decide to fix it, which may be next fall or 2 years from now.

At any rate I hate to see the water set empty and thougt that I could put some in it to clean up as much as possible, provide some forage for another pond, or just some relaxing fishing catching the TP with the kids for good times.

Either way we should be able to at least get some nice size ones out before they die off and have them for a tasty meal.

Each pond we have could benefit from Tilapia in one way or another, I am just trying to figure out what kinds can or should be used and how many of each and of what size should be stocked.

Rainman has given some good ideas and I should get in touch with him for more details.

I would also like to hear from others as well as I think that is one of the best uses of this forum is to get results from other PB members.

I love this site and wish I would have found it first before stocking the pond in December.

I subscribed back in July so still learning here.

Thanks

Agreed! It would be nice if we could get the fish to eat what WE want rather than what they want!

Here are my recommendations:
Pond 1, no predation expected, expect overpopulation and possible stunting of tilapia, stock 5-10 lbs per acre initially

Pond 2, expect predation on tilapia and larger growth potential, stock 10-15lbs per acre

Pond 3, expect an uphill battle to control FA with predators present, stock 30-50lbs per acre

Pond 4, stock 5-10lbs per acre

According to Dr. Joe Lock, a veteran Texas fisheries biologist who has extensive experience with tilapia around the world, Mozambiques are a better choice for forage production than nile and blue tilapia, due to the fact that they mature at a younger age and spawn more often. Will this trait have a profound effect on reproductive performance in northern ponds as well during a given growing season?

IMO, mozambiques may still be the best choice in northern ponds for forage production and algae control, but if you are looking to maximize size potential and life span, then the nile or blues are the better choice.

You also have to consider costs. Do the math.

Thanks Rainman for this referral, we appreciate it very much. I don't want to come across as trying to jump in here and cost you a sale or anything like that.

FYI, this location just West of Gainesville is NOT our affiliate, our representative is located near Bowie, TX. His name is Walter, and he can deliver tilapia to North Tx and Oklahoma.

I would never want to dispute any others experience, obsevations or experience with a fish species. In the interest of providing as much comparative information possible, I've questioned some information to consider and provided some extra.

I agree Mozambique tilapia mature earlier, but only by about a week on the average. In optimal conditions, Moz first spawn at an avearge of 11 weeks of age where Blues spawn at an average 12 weeks of age. There are also many reports and studies that show Moz mature as late as 4-5 months and Blues at 5-6 months as well. One consistant comparison I have noticed in the many reports I have read that clearly compare the 2 species is that Moz mature at a minimum size of 14cm and Blues at 10cm.

With all the inconsistancy in cited scientific studies, fact sheets, articles and reports, how can any layman know which ones are accurate.....or even CLOSE to accurate in many cases?

As an example since Dr. Lock was mentioned, Dr. Lock states in this Paper "Tilapia directly feed on phytoplankton and reproduce every 6 to 8 weeks beginning
when they are 8 to 12 weeks old, depending on species. The T. mossambica and/or T. zilli are probably the best forage
producers, but T. nilotica and T. aurea are excellent.".

Now just to highlight the improper generalities that confuse people terribly and are often made in reports and even worse in studies, Dr Lock says spawning occurs at "10-12 weeks" old. Now I know from research this statement ONLY refers to T. mossambica and T. aurea, because on average, T. zillii reach maturity at 104 weeks (2 years) and T. nilotica at 26 weeks.---I don't see how his stated range is anywhere near accurate average of his four stated species. I am not questioning his knowledge, merely pointing out how easily flawed information can be when not presented clearly for people researching the fish to make an informed decision.

Given the closeness of maturity between Moz and Blues, I would agree that in the same time frame and conditions, Moz would produce more fish due to the early maturity. However, without going in to the brain exploding math required, IMO Blue tilapia will produce more total forage in a growing season in the same climates and without predation.

Further, and most importantly IMO, is that Moz become lethargic at a temperature where LMB metabolism is higher and the higher metabolism prevents as many lipids (fat) from being stored as compared to the LMB's metabolism when the Blues become lethargic and are gorged upon. This single fact will reduce winter weight loss, increase energy stores and increase the overall health and condition of LMB in the following spring. Actual flesh created from the tilapia's consumed should be nearly identical, but I am unaware of any study that would actually verify the flesh comparison.

It can also be reasonably debated that Blue tilapia will consume a wider variety of material than other tilapia since many user want them for far more plant control than mainly algae.

It does come down to the math, but to reach a desired goal, there is far more to put into the equation than price in what will reach the desired goal. If it is simply a matter of the outright price per pound, Blues won't be a good choice.

Given the considerably better cold tolerance of the Blue, I can't see how any other tilapia can out produce the Blue in sheer numbers and nutrients consumed in a single growing season, but I could be wrong.

FWIW, as I stated, I based this particular stocking rate suggestion overly high to attain the stated goals in a single season. Future stockings would be much lower once the goals are reached.

Happy to do so Todd!

I didn't take your post as any sort of a slam. Quite the contrary, I like all the information and options available to the members here your post added. I'm much more interested in helping a potential customer reach their goal than making a sale...I know you have the same philosophy as well.

These types of threads are what make Pond Boss so unique! With aqll the misinformation and myths out there for people to take as gospel, PB breaks throught the BS to offer readers MANY choices based on actual experience.

Thanks for letting me know!

Bowie is still closer than Buffalo.

Thanks Rainman for that I appreciate it and I respect what you are doing and all the work you are putting into it. For you and I both we strive to produce a high quality product...priceless.

I think it would be interesting to run an experiment with true blues vs. true mozambiques in both climates. I would like you to see my tilapia production ponds right now in the peak of the season, they are why people thought Jesus walked on water......worthy of a youtube video.....

Perhaps Bill Cody and or Ted Lea could be persuaded to find a few ponds in northern Ohio willing to volunteer for that next spring...?

This may seem like a stupid question but since I do not know much about either Tilapia would it be wise or hurt to stock both Blues, and Mozzies?

It wouldn't hurt anything at all. If the hope is to gey a more cold tolerant hybrid, it won't happen. The better cold tolerance of the Blue does not pass on in a hybrid...some hybrids even end up with less cold tolerance than both parent species.

What about growth, spawn, or taste?

Also is there a name for this hybrid?

What is a T. Zilli as mentioned above?

Does each type of Tilapia (Blue, Mozzies, Niles) eat different types of Algae, plants, etc. from each other or are the diets about the same?

Does anyone know a supplier in or near west Texas? Buffalo and Bowie are half way across the country.

Try this link.


http://www.texasaquaculture.org/2010%20FinalAvailList.pdf

Thanks, 250 miles to the nearest, wow.

That's just around the corner in Texas standard isn't it?

250 Miles, is 250 Miles, no matter where you come from!

Yea, just around the corner. lol.
I'll plan a trip to the Dallas area for a weekend outing or something and try to make a side trip while there. It kinda sux to live in BFE, but you live where the work is I guess.

One good thing...Tilapia won't have much issue with a long haul. Just make sure your supplier doesn't feed the fish for at least three days prior to your pick up date.

Hey, how about that? My first hijacked topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congratulations Gmoore!!!!

Now if you click the "Donate" button in the upper right hand corner, the Pond Boss will give ya some gold stars!

That's why I am an idea of what I need for each situation. If you can afford to do so next year I will, otherwise I will stick with the one I see most beneficial to me or friends and go in that direction. I hope to have some ideas on how I need to start planning and saving for the event.