They say do what you love and love what you do, so I am taking their advice and starting a pond management business in Indiana. None of this would have been possible w/o all of you here on Pond Boss and i thank you all. I have the bare bones website up but it's still under major construction www.pondlifeconsulting.com. I am building a potential customer list by using a satellite imaging program that provides owner address info. I am designing a direct marketing mailer and soon will be making personal visits to potential customers.

All of you have always been there for me over the years answering questions and for general support. I would like to humbly ask any of you professional pond meisters out there if you may have any professional advice for me as I begin this venture. Topics of interest are (but not limited to): Affiliate marketing; Pricing strategies; pitfalls; success stories etc.

Thank you in advance for the input that any of you may have for me and my new business.

Blaine Hession

Best of luck Blaine!

If you need any contact information as in fish suppliers, or just plain contacts in the industry let me know. As past president of the Indiana Aquaculture Association and a consummate buyer of fish in the past from Indiana, Michigan, Wisconisn, New York, and Ohio, I know a lot of people in the region.

I also have contacts at Purdue, the INDNR, and BOAH that will be more than willing to give you info if you need any.

Kudos, Blaine. Best of luck to ya, and good call on doing what you love for a living. Can't ask for anything better.

best wishes for success, and if there is anything I can do (maybe i could lend a hand once your site is a little further along), lemme know.

-skinny

You certainly have a great resource right here Blaine. Good luck in your endeavors and keep us all updated.

PF what do you mean by that ? I think I know but you should explain it to Blaine who has his life hopes involved.

Best wishes on the journey Blaine.

What I mean by that is I would have a primary source of income before I started a new business. Starting a new business is a daunting task normally, in this economy, frightening. And in a consulting or service provider business, you rely a lot on referrals and word of mouth from success. You don't have any of that form start, so you rely on direct marketing, cold calling which is brutal and the rejection rate is very high. What experience do you have? Any references? Completed projects? No thanks.

Next, you better have a lot of equipment already, and a lot of contacts and wholesalers ready to roll. What about local established competition with experience? Local market survey? Are you going to specialize or be a jack of all trades? Licensing, insurance, bonding, it all has to pencil out or you are just dreaming. Plus, in certain regions, actually many, it is a seasonal business. What are you going to do during the winter? Manage frozen ponds? That is why you keep your primary, day job or steady income until you can wean off of that with confidence and start off strong rather than just jump in and fail miserably. Business can be a cruel and unforgiving experience, and the government is screwing over small business owners every chance they get as of late.

From someone that is self employed that is excellent advice on not giving up the day job Pondfrog, but I don't think Blaine is are you Blaine?

Although he expressed it rather brutally Pond Frog is right on the money. Beginning a consulting business is a very difficult venture. IMHO you need to establish your reputation in order to gain a client base. Writing articles, newsletters, conducting seminars, public speaking are all good methods to not only get your name out to potential customers but to establish a reputation as well. Beginning a consulting business is all about selling yourself.

Thanks for the clarification PF. And yes, those are some of the things that I need to think about but you have to start somewhere. One of the things that I love about PondBoss is that many of us here are ready with the positive reinforcement and moral support as this is a big step for me. I want to know the good and the tough realities. Fortunately the house payment and food doesn't rely on the success of this business. Doing what I love is important to me but profitability is essential as it is in any business. PF brings up one of my most nagging questions of "what to do in the Winter?"

I have a strong and successful background in Sales & Marketing and actually grew up in a fairly successful family business. Unfortunately I was downsized from the corporate world a while back. The upside to that is that I can give it my all from the start. I think that I have what it takes to run a small business and I have chosen pond maintenance due to my passion. Yes it's seasonal but others are doing it in my area so I can only assume that it can be done if you are creative about it. That's also why I am asking you all.

Blaine,

As you know, I am someone that has directly reaped the rewards of PondBoss and started my business due to the members here.

PondFrog is dead on, but I know you personally a little and think you will be wise in your choices and can certainly succeed in this endeavor.

My supplying Tilapia and various other services began in large part with YOU! You ordered some Tilapia and I sent you a bunch of dead ones...then you posted here how I handled it. Then last month you and your wife opened your home, (with very short notice at midnight), fridge, and water well for a guy in trouble you had only met once...me again.

I mention last month because it nearly wiped me out. I killed more fish in three days than I have in 3 years, had several major breakdowns, and for the first time in 27 years of making deadlines and filling my customers needs, I didn't get the job done. If not for the many guys like you for customers and friends, I couldn't have pushed through last month.

I'll help you in any way I'm able, and I am sure everyone else here will as well.

Initially I would have two jobs. The pond business would be secondary. The other job the primary one especally to provide steady income and income during winter. As the pond business increases and the client list grows fairly large, then consider going fulltime with it.

Blaine I admire the fact that you are going to try and make your passion your career.

Obviously you know there are risks involved in running your own business. Otherwise you would have been doing this years ago.

Just remember this. Every person who has "made their millions" through ownership of a business has been exactly where you are right now. These entrepenuers had a dream that they worked their tails off to achieve. They fulfilled that dream and in many cases exceeded it beyond their wildest dreams.

Everything you need to know you'll find here. So your challenge is getting that first gig or gigs to build your reputation and then piggybacking that into future work.

Good luck and keep us posted...

I admire your entrepreneurship and willingness to take risk. Those are traits sorely lacking in me, which is why I've spent three years in a course of education that I hate and work a job that bores me to tears.

If you know much about mini ponds, koi ponds, backyard ponds, waterfalls, etc that is a great area to get started, especially if you live near a big city. People typically spend way more money maintaining those types of ponds than they do on farm ponds.....

In order to get this thing rolling you pretty much need to turn your hobby into a complete obsession, find your niche, start small, and gain experience by getting your feet wet (and muddy).

Stocking fish is what got me rolling (everyone needs fish, especially hard to find ones), then we kept adding products and services like installing aeration systems, lake dyes, bacterias, algaecides, herbicides, fish structures, feeders, etc. Then we added electrofishing surveys and now consulting is our main business.

Definitely not an easy process, but very doable. Knowledge of ponds and fish obviously is a must, but here is the most important aspect to a successful pond management business- learn how to manage a client. Pond owners are even more diverse than ponds and if you can learn what a client wants and how he wants to get there you will be successful.

Here's my offerings....
Chase the dream...just be sure you know the dream, first. If not, the journey will be fun and the end gain will be elusive.

Work like average people and you'll be average. Work a little harder and think a little smarter and you'll be a little above average.

Find the box and change it.

Make more money than you spend.

The sun will go down tonight and come right back up tomorrow. If it doesn't we all have other issues.

Not all business is good business...unless you are starving.

Seek discounts when buying, but don't give many when your income depends on it.

Learn to say "no" or you'll wind up overcommitted. Say "yes" when it's appropriate.

Under-promise and over-deliver.

Always follow up...always.

Smile a lot...it's contagious and people want to do business with happy, professional people who love what they do.

Oh, about what to do in the winter...seems like everyone north of the Mason-Dixon line...everyone...enjoys ice fishing. Become the ice-fishing expert. Design and manage your summer ponds for the best ice fishing...review the concept of "Find the box and change it". If you manage your spring and summer business around ice fishing, when it's time to ice fish you will have set the stage for your clients. Next, set up a winter plan to help them catch more fish...become the "King of Chum" and make the rounds selling fathead minnows and create a device to shoot them underwater around the structure that holds fish for ice fishing. You will become someone's hero and they'll pay you.

Don't keep regular hours. Ponds don't.

Always make a good first impression but don't talk a line of crap. Everyone sees through crap, even though it isn't clear.

If you don't know something, admit it, but tell the client you know someone who does...and then go get the answer.

Always be honest even though a lie might be easy. Liars are losers.

Be on time.

Wear sunscreen or my wife will bust you.

Oh..the most important thing...it took me 18 years to figure this one out..."It ain't about the pond or the fish or the plants." It's about the "it". Figure out the "it" and you'll grin all the way to the bank...(play on the word "bank").

Don't you just love it when THE Pond boss chimes in?

I would also add follow Bob Lusk around for a day (with his permission of course otherwise it would be all weird and stalker-like). Bob has more energy than most everyone else I know. IMHO Bob has become THE Pond Boss in part due to his incredible work ethic. I still don't know how Bob manages to keep up with all of his duties (pond manager, writer, editor, fish farm owner, husband, father, grandpa, wine maker, etc, etc) and I'm still not convinced that he wasn't cloned at some point (I'm pretty sure that at the last conference I saw him in two places at once).

One of those was Mike Otto in a Lusk suit.

Had you going, didn't they?

If you want to sell fish, I think that whoever mentioned "supply hard to find fish" had it right.

Somebody selling feed-trained SMB and LMB, tilapia, feed-trained YP, and such would probably have a good, regular market for himself. Every fish hatchery out there seems to sell LMB, BG, CC, GSH, and FHM. You want to sell fish that people can't get elsewhere and have to get every year or few years.

Not to be Mr. Negative but Mr. Blunt and a NSA type of guy/frog, I'll give you few of my deals.

I did a feasibility study after giving up on the unsatisfying corporate grind. What did I like to do? I always have liked fishing, ponds and landscaping. So that is where I started.

What businesses that generated actual income were in that arena. Koi, all areas, some retail, management, landscaping, consultation. In all my stops in my career, I was customer service leader, or tops in customer satisfaction. So service more than sales. Fits my work ethic better anyway.

Koi pond market is flooded. Maintanance and installation. I'm really not into that. Nor do I have the equipment. I know plants, have a green thumb and know fish. So pond manager/consultant was a better fit, and there are very few of them. Almost no competition. Got lucky and got a good .com, but what to put on it, I'm a good guy?

People want proof, photos, before and afters, references. Better get good at what I do, before I start direct marketing. I have some time to keep my day job and earn money for housing food, and most important take care of my family.

So I get down to nuts and bolts of business. Find least expensive ad helper, vistaprint. Get some cards, shirts, caps, card door magnets. Brochures to follow. Get all permits FBNS, licenses. Start studying weaker areas. Study, and study some more.

Make contacts, wholesalers, already knew fish farm operators, aquatic stores, suppliers. Let them know I am in business. What do I do? I have been a property manager before, as far as bare land, I can be nasty good with a chain saw, brushcutter and weedeater. I can plant and stock fish. I can dianosis and plan. And can perform corrective and preventive maintenance. I can landscape anything. It's almost what can I not do.

I do a lot of ticket punching. Slang for volunteer work, helping out, free consults, trades, you name it. I do this for some time. In rich communties, for HOA's, for business owners. Pretty soon people are seeing the quality and the results of my work. My professionalism. My proposals and my interaction with the community. Always a can do, positive let's make this happen and get you up and running kind of guy.

Pass out business cards. Nice no gimmick cards. People use them to clean thier teeth or toss it in circular file, cost a couple of cents. But some people contact you, I saw that work you did. Your that pond frog guy. Put your name on your work, and make your work and advertisement for your business. Look for opportunites and pitch, I can handle that, and let you do what you do best, your business, and I will do my business for? I'll trade services, I'll work for noncash jobs. But I never just mail it in or give half ass serive, I give my best effort without exception.

If you consult people like I have seen this before stories. It inspires confidence. They like professional or commercial equipment. But the most important thing, they liked to be listened to. It is suprising how basic that is, but how important. I'll whip out a notebook, and politely ask, do you mind if I take notes? It makes them feel good. Too many service providers give lip service, anything the customer says goes in one ear and out the other. They just do what they want, not what the customer wants. I never do that. I'll reinforce that by saying, let me see if I have this right. Then as the job proceeds, I'll ask for feedback. Is this the way you wanted it? How are we moving along?

Give honest estimates, honest timelines and a honest days work. Never ever bs a client. Keep commitments, show up early or timely. Show respect always, do little extra things, from picking up trash, I'll bring a tootsie pop for kids, or a frog, a polliwog display, anything. Always give a little extra, as in go above and beyond. And don't sell that, let it speak for itself. What you want to sell is your solution, but not a pitch, a cause, reason and benefit. A this is why we should do this, and what we hope to expect. Use we, it's inclusive of the customer. They are paying the bills.

Follow up. It's huge. No one night stands, no wham, bam thank you mam. Either by phone or in person. How did that work out? Are things going well? Did it come out like we planned? Is there anything I could have done better? Can I get you anything else on me? That is gold. I can drop off anything, a load of polliwogs, turtles, gambusia, replace a underperforming plant and customers are impressed. They never forget those little thinga that may cost you nothing but time. Because you cared and did not forget them.

Well here are a few extra cards, if anyone you know needs any quality work done, you can honestly say, this guy took care of me. Listen, compliment and show respect, every interaction. Stay positive no matter what. Even in bad situations you can turn it by saying something like, it going to be rough, but we can make it happen. Not I'll try, or I think. Erase doubt.

Pretty soon if you did everything right, people know and respect you. You have an earned reputation. They ask for your card, and say hey friend of mine said you really took care of him. You will get business, more business and pretty soon, it will all click. I cherry pick jobs now. I do work very long hours during peak seasons, Saturdays, Sundays and holidays. Customers love that. I'm working my day off becasue I wanted to get this done, no extra charge from me or holiday pay.

In the consulting business, it is soft sell, hard work succeeds. Results speak volumes. Look at a pond, a job site and even put your sign on it, all work done by Pond Frog. You better be proud of every job. How can the customer like your work if you don't?

Just to keep busy I am starting a second business where I have connections to free supplies. It is through my ticket punching program. A business owner last night, a respected winemaker gave a small speech during an event and thanked me personally for making his winery look so much better. I had complete strangers come up and compliment me on my work and ask for a card. I never asked for anything of that. In fact he said please stand up, and I was not around so he said he is probably off smoking his after dinner cigar. I was. But my business cards are there in his winery.

To be honest, I have just scratched the surface, and have a waiting list and turn jobs down. My website stinks and I do zero direct marketing or cold calling. I will get to that, but I just don't have to with the way I am set up. I honestly tell my customers, after all my years of working the corporate gring, I am blessed to finally be doing something I love and am passionate about. Sometimes I might even say, would you rather have someone working for you for a paycheck, or someone working for you that loves what he does and is thrilled to be doing it? It's rhetorical but boy does it get the point across.

I hope that helps some.

Blaine,

Not sure about your area, but in my area of Indiana a RELIABLE supplier of triploid grass carp could probably do pretty well. The beauty of it is you don't have to produce them yourself. You just need somewhere to put them while you distribute them. I've been accidentally been put on the Grass Carp list by the state and my phone rings off the hook.

If you could promote tilapia as a non chemical way to control FA, and would have a reliable supply to plant, that would build over time too.

Additionally, in my northern end of the state there are NO, NOTTA, NONE, ZILCH fish farms that supply fish to recreational ponds that I am aware of. We have lots of ground water, excellent clay soils for production ponds, but no one has the umf to take a chance and start one up. I'd love to do it but capital is my problem and lack of land. If I remember right you've got plenty of property to do so?

There was a time I had been happy to buy fish from suppliers, but once I was treated very poorly by the closest one in Ohio and the government slapped on interstate restrictions that's changed. I now produce my own fish and it's not rocket science. If I can do it anyone can.

One thing I have learned along the way: If you are going to sell something, make sure it is a scarce product.

Today's ticket punching. Sign up for last kid's elementary school's ice cream social. He's the last of my 7 polliwogs and had his first day of kindergarten today.

Benefits, donate to a good cause. His school and PTA. Constant advertisement in fliers and bulletins. At the social you get a table. I bring along before and after photos, some bullfrogs, turtles and gambusia, kids love the critters. It's a big event, shmooze and pass out business cards to everyone local. If you don't need help, you might know someone that does.

Thank you all for taking the time to put your words of wisdom down in writing. Black Bass, so true you've got to have the vision and a whole lot of guts. Many will look at you like your crazy until success is achieved. Nate, Teehjaeh recommended that I give you a call. Do you have time for a chat this week? Bob, always an honor and your words will be heeded. Thanks for taking a personal interest in my endeavor. PF, quite a mouthful, your advice and time is much appreciated and noted. Cecil, hmm... You've got me thinking. I'll be calling you this week to take you up on your prior offer and to just catch up. JHAP, I'll be sure to get Bob's permission before staking him out. Bill, txelen, DD2, thanks for the good words.

Bob was the only one with winter work suggestions. Anybody else have additional creative ideas?

Yes. Get pondowners interested in planting trout for the fall, winter, and spring. Find a reliable supplier of rainbows to bring them down and hold them in cages in your pond and deliver them. Mark them up along with delivery charges. I hear Jones in Ohio gets incredible prices for adult rainbows.

I may know one in Michigan that will deliver to Indiana if the order is big enough. He's usually got the health testing needed to although I need to see if he is back up on that.

That depends on what is in your area. Stress preWinter preperation, last minute before freeze over maintenance to prevent disasters in the Spring. A pay me less now than more later concept. My Winter business is as far away from ponds as you can get, it does not have to be correlated, but anything that earns and keeps you busy. Fine tune your skills, study, education and ticket punching, making business contacts. all of the things you should not have time for during peak season.

I like the ice fishing idea. Don't know anything about it, but a great way to get pond owners to get to know you and utilize thier ponds during a perceived off season. Turn that around into one of the best times of the year. And when the ice melts, I'll be there for you. Here's my card.

A specialist on when and where winter aeration is needed or not needed? Plus, provide aeration where needed or where helpful?

Winter Work- Place fish structures, Snow Removal on ponds, Snow removal for businesses, driveways, etc Waterfowl Aeration Systems, Cut wood, go work for someone down south, part time job at a local outdoor store, guide fishing and hunting, etc....

give me a call or shoot me an email, I can help you get set up with anything you would need.

Blaine,

I got another call for grass carp today. The caller thought they might take care of a filamentous algae problem which I hear a lot. I explained to her that was not the case. I'm hoping she comes on here as I told her about the site.

The number one problem I hear about in ponds is filamentous algae. This particular pond owner has farm ground around the pond so it will probably be a continuous problem. The only thing I could think of was she may have use chemicals which she doesn't want to do. I also told her she may have to come up with a very dense grass barrier around the pond. She's been mechanically removing it but the pond is quite large and it's an uphill struggle even with a tractor.

I told her about tilapia and will refer her to Rainman if she can't find any, but there just isn't anyone around to supply them. The ones that raise them for the food market aren't interested in selling them for pond stocking even if you offer them more. Something wrong with those people! Don't they want to make money?

Cecil, Get a cage ready and I'll ship you a bunch of amur! We're both licensed for Indiana GC stocking.

So I got my first official project and it's a doozy. It's an 8 acre pond average depth of 5' max 10'. It is absolutely infested with watermilfoil, watermeal, duckweed with a little sago mixed in. I intend to use 2 gallons of Sonar AS but I am in a little bit of a quandary. I don't want to be blinded by my eagerness to get this business off the ground by misadvising my customer on the timing of the initial treatment.

Would my customer be better served if I were to tell him to wait until Spring for initial treatment? He wants this stuff gone and is ready to spend the money that it takes for the initial kill and ongoing maintenance for years to come. He's hoping that next years maintenance will be will be much more affordable after weeds are under control.

Any advice is very appreciated.

Very smart Blaine. I can understand this eagerness, but doing something right, even if you have to wait, will be much better for your client's pond, and your future business. Very cool to see you get your first project!

I don't have any pond treatment advice for you Blaine, I just wanted to say a heart felt congratulations!

First question I always ask, what is the customers goals, both short and long term?

Next I ask myself, are these realistic, can they be done, can I do it?

Do they conflict?

As for this pond, sounds like he just wants it back from invading plants. There will be many jobs like this. But no two are the same. Does this pond have a fish population?

This is not the ideal time for that treatment. In fact, it's close to the worst. Many of the plants are going to be dying back and going dormant anyway. It might make you look good, but it won't be from Fluridone. Is that the lowest cost solution?

Bear in mind that is a slow acting solution. Sometimes a 45-90 period. Where will that pond be in 90 days? Under ice? Will those plants be a problem then?

There are so many questions it is hard to give the right advice. But if it were me, and I still have a question about fish, I would use another fast acting kill it all product. Then inform him you will need to retreat with a slow acting long term treatment next Spring.

Others concerns and questions are, why? Why is the pond so full of weeds, is there some kind of nutrient loading problem? What if, you kill all the weeds and cause some nasty even worse algae bloom or blue green nightmare?

Short answer: No way I'd treat a pond like that with Fluridone this late in the growing season.

Pond Frog,

A fish kill is of major concern. The pond has many beautuful LMB in the range of 5-10 lbs. Then there is a growing poulation of stunted LMB I believe is due to 85% of the water column being choked with milfoil and a total cover of watermeal with some duckweed. Half of the pond is 2.5 to 4' deep and the watermeal is stacked as much as an inch deep in those shallows. The other half of the pond is 6' -10' deep. It's a 60 year old pond that is full of muck & silt and surrounded by agriculture. Ice cover is about 150 days away. Are you saying that killing it all now won't drastically reduce reinfestation next season? Even if I implement a smaller scale preventative treatment program early in the Spring?

Find out how big the watershed is? With a normal watershed you can apply the 2 gallons of Sonar now and then follow up next spring with a gallon spread out through a couple treatments to keep the stuff from reforming. It takes a much lower dose of fluridone to keep stuff from growing and mating than it does to kill mature plants. I would still recommend killing the mature plants yet this summer to set the stage for next year. Watermeal is the biggest concern that needs to be the focus of eliminating. Once that is eliminated (2-3 years) you can scale back the fluridone and get rolling with good native vegetation.

Also would suggest applying some cheap bacteria packets 21 days after your Sonar treatment to help eat up the decaying vegetation. The other stuff will start dieing much quicker than the watermeal. 12 packets of bacteria per acre, about $3 per packet.

I'd spot treat slowly especially the floaters. I would not, I repeat would not Fluridone the entire pond with that much infestation late in the Summer. Too much vegatative die off in warm water temps is the recipe for a major crash.

You are right, too much vegetation will stunt some LMB from lack of forage because sight feeding is so poor. I'd spray the surface plants, show some improvement, at all costs avoid a crash and hit it hard with Fluridone in the Spring timed with new emergence. Way better safe than sorry here. The action plan completely changes with desirable fish, better do a risk assessment here.

Long term wise sounds like age has contributed for muck. Plus continual nutrient reloading from plant cycles. Would be nice to get some gravel in there, some aeration for the beneficial bacteria to stick and reproduce. Long term you should knock the muck back and get the nutrients down with competition. Another concern is opening up the window for algae. And duckweed, watermeal since they will be the last plants standing. You let the pond get covered with that it is all she wrote for the fish. I'd attack the floaters first.

This is off topic a little bit, but n8ly, how has the pond hippo worked for you? I know it's a lot of capitol for a small business to expend, but it sounds like it would be a good thing for the WM and DW that Blaine is combating on his first job. Quick results, and less chemicals applied right now to the pond. Plus getting nutrients out.

Pond hippo works great, but is more for 1/2 acre and smaller type ponds.

Having something else no one else sells is fine but remember you still need to keep your bread and butter stuff. The reason no one has those type of odd ball fish is because the market is not good enough for them. Yes some people like this or that type of fish but when it comes right down to it anyone in this buisness will tell you, you need to move your product as fast as you can. So just be carefull when it comes to fish and what really sells in your area. Get a good foothold and then maybe try a couple of harder to find fish. The last thing you want is a tank full of Muskey or Sauger Eye's that you can't get rid of right? Anyway good luck bud I hope it works out for you.

I just can't justify putting out $2500 for a pond hippo. Looks like a gigantic hippo from Hungry Hungry Hippo game. Too limited of application for that outlay. If I spending that kind of money I'm buying a product like a lake mower that can be used on large commercial jobs and mow just aobut anything. If I have a pond that small with watermeal or duckweed I'm skimming and spraying. Take a lifetime of jobs to begin to recover that pond hippo investment.

Yeah exactley PF that's what I am talking about, and how many do they sell???? It's kind of cool and different but...... Inventory and movement of the INV. is very important especailly when your first starting out even more important. One wrong decision can break you if it's bad enough.

At first with limited capital, you have to invest very prudently. You need equipment that is broad range or universal. And you better have wholesale or mooch connections.

Then let the market dictate what you start stocking. My biggest demand is water lilies, so I find the least expenive source in the US and propagate my own. I sell to wholesalers now.

Another consideration is commercial applications. You may have to spend more to get professional or commercial grade equipment, but in the long run, you come out way ahead. Customers have a perception factor, if you break out DIY equipment on the jobsite, it leaves a bad first impression. If you pull out that professional equipment, you look like a pro, and like it or not image is everything, at first. Then it's up to you to do the job right.

Exotic species, slow movers are dead weight, money burners. I let my local market dictate what I stock, and what I load up on. I am not in the business of pitching and selling, I am a supplier and consultant.