is this a gsf? it is 7.5" long. just caught it on a cane pole in my pond. i already know that i have gsf, this one is just kinda large.

GFS can get that big and bigger, but I dont think that is a GSF. The ear flap is wrong to be a GSF. IMHO

That looks like a Redbreast Sunfish.

http://www.tnfish.org/ChilhoweeReservoir_TWRA/files/RedbreastSunfishChilhoweeReservoirNegus_TWRA.jpg

I'm calling it a RB/GSF hybrid due to mouth size and streaks on the face.

the fish does look like the one in the link. i remember catching fish when i was a kid around here that had a really bright breast, but this ones doesnt really favor those. i wonder if the picture is correct in the link? i have seen other red breast pictures before that dont really look like that one..

who knows? maybe oneday soon DNA kits will be cheap and available for the general public!!!

I have GSF in my pond up to 9 inches. That to me does not look like a pure GSF, like burger said maybe a hybrid? But that's no pure GSF not green enough and not enough green lines on the gills. IMO.

i agree with the part about the green lines on the cheek. he doesnt completely favor the smaller gsf that i catch in the baskets in the pond and stream below the pond. however, the pond is pretty stained right now and the bg even look really pale right now, almost no color.

Look at these. It could be a hybrid (RBS cross).

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/efish/families/redbreastsun.html

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/efish/families/hybrid.html

it kinda favors a few of them. what about the markings on top and bottom of tail fin? they are very pronounced.

i wish now i hadnt thrown him out of the pond.

orange margins on the tail, more evidence of a likely hybrid.

Looks like a pure redbreast sunfish to me. I don't see anything unusual about it's coloration or morphology to make me think it is a hybrid. Rebreasts are more of a stream species, but will do good in most ponds. There is strong regional variance in their coloration particularly among males which is what appears to be in your picture.

Here is a redbreast I caught in PA last year...

Unfortunately scott69 it appears to me as though that fish is some lesser species than GSF. I offer you my condolences.

I knew the expert JHAP would know for sure!! He is the GSF King!

Actually, I think the term is "GSF goat".
Count yourself lucky, Scott69, no reason to drain the pond yet.

I still want to tase you Yolk Sack.

Moderators, no need to step in yet. I've got a pretty thick shell.

Watch out JHAP, Yolk's got back-up.

I should hope not. I didn't actually say I was gonna tase you.

I just said I wanted to. Heck I don't even own a taser and I'm several states away. (as far as you know)

I think you meant to say "Tease", just missed the 'e', easy slip when you play 200+ games of solitaire in a single sitting.

Seen any new Ducks?

My friends dad is a Hazmat worker, and acquired a tazer for his son. Which in turned turned into all of us having a tazer at our disposal, oh the tazer related games we played. I will have to find that video for you all.

i had fish delivered today from SEP. i showed the picture of the fish to the guy and he said it was a red breast sunfish..the pic was small and on my phone, but he seemed pretty sure.

Who was the guy ? IMO your earlier pic is a RBS.

he told me his name but i dont remember..david kastner is the one that i talked with over the phone. they are from the auburn location. he took a water sample with him. maybe he will call back and i can get his name.

RBS. Easy to identify, not a greenie, it's longer than 2 inches.

Tisk, tisk, Pond Frog, and I had hopes for you.

DIED's GSF:

That's some fine fertilizer there... ;-)

Dude...taunting JHAP is like pulling the whiskers of a sleeping Lion - er, maybe a kitten.

Don't worry, JHAP is still looking for his glasses.

I promised JHAP I'd throw a few male GSF into my pond and grow some big ones just for him... I have a non voting membership in the GSA. HAHA

Speaking of GSF - I have a confession. I was collecting RES in a Interstate 80 pit last Summer and caught several RESxGSH hybrids. The cross looks a lot like a pumpkinseed - and originally I thought they were but the GSF gape gave them away. I caught about 10 from 6-9" and they made my main pond along with the RES I caught that day. Yes, I have GSF [kinda] swimming in the main pond.

I sure hope that is what they were...

Everyone in the GSA has full voting rights.

Of course I use the Iranian ballet counting method to ensure the results are what I want.

That story brings a tear to my eye TJ. For now I shall ignore the lion/kitten comment.

I think that gsf was photoshopped like octomom in her bikini shot. Last Summer I fished in a man made residential lake. I caught 150 fish. 5 bullheads, got stuck for the first time in my entire life, ouch, 10 smallish bluegill and 135 gsf. None being over 3". None, zero. Predominate species, almost clones and all either stunts or dinks. And since I did not catch one freakish large photoshopped one, not one even 1/3 that big, I'm leaning toward stunts. I guess they are better than goldfish.

You put the Devil's spawn in you ponds?????????????? Traitor!!!

You realize I can never drive my fish truck anywhere near your ponds now! I can never allow the sanctity of all other ponds to be polluted by even the stench of the GSF!!! There is not enough sanitizer or one stong enough ensure safety for others!



Please tell me you fell onto the darkside AFTER I was there last!!!! Do I have to buy a new transport truck now TJ?

Absolutely, Sir!

Uhhhh, we're still on for that load of Greenies you promised me, right, Rex?

Theo! Dude!!! 4 orders where cancelled within 10 seconds of your post!









BTW there ain't enough money in the world to cover the delivery chage for getting near greenie's AND your "little Plesasarous's(sp)----at least since 01/20/2009

You are lucky that cops are legally allowed to lie to criminals---read-Jhap!

the greenies, or JHAP's words?

Awe, now that's not nice... HAHA The greenies of course!

I'm feeling deprived, I've never seen a GSf around here.

Eldorado Jeff, my Eldorado pond should be full in a week. Might have finally broken this cycle of drought years, saints be praised.

I've got a few you can borrow, I'll bring up this spring for stocking your pond... I don't want you to feel left out!

Maybe they would be good otter bait.

Sacrificial lambs... Finally a good use for the GSF!

Wow...I never thought my confession would illicit this kind of response. They are only HALF GSF...doesn't that provide enough of an arm's length from fully joining the FEDERATION?

Yep and more rain is coming this week. I would imagine by now we're up to full pool.

As for the rest of you mongrels, I don't have the energy to properly respond to you this morning but know this. GSF are coming to your pond. They will hide amongst BG fish stock. They will be carried to you pond via bird. They will swim down creeks or swim up spillways. No body of water is safe. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. We are the GSA.

TJ? Do I know a TJ? I knew a Tom H once, but he was sucked into an abyss by the beauty of a horrible, deceptive, and vile creature. I'll miss my friend! Even though we are free to make our choices, many often try to ignore the consequences.






TJ, I still love ya buddy, but now we'll have to negotiate! hehehe

Yikes...message received. Thanks for dragging me into this mess, JHAP.

DIED's gsf photoshopped? yer a funny guy there pond frog. i'm so hurt that none of the mods or forum geezers stuck up for good old DIED and his green pigs


put these in yer bikini.....















in addition to these two lovely fish







sorry for the interuption, back to my corner now....

Dave I am impressed! I just got my pond in May and I have caught several 8 to 10 inch GFS in my pond. I don't know why everyone hates the GSF? They hit top water baits, crank baits they are a blast to catch when they are that size! The kids love catching them. Those are some mighty fine looking ones at that! Sorry guys I couldn't stand it anymore! I do have GSF and I like catching them! Not sure why everyone hates on them so much. I guess it's like having a mut for a dog no one likes him but you!

I don't think anyone really hates GSF ---( ok maybe 30 or 40 people here do. ) but mostly we love to aggravate JHAP.

Oh well if thats the case... Carry on then!!

With bass and BG around GSF are rarely a problem. They just become a very small % of the pond population. I don't hate them, I have many fond memories of them as a kid. When I didn't know any better, they were often one of the first fish to be put in a new pond I found.

JHAP has backup!

Did someone say that GSF are not good to eat?

I seem to recall someone saying the fillets were "mushy."

RC51 you are promoted to full fledged membership in the GSA. Thank you for your service to this magnificent fish.



AH HA! Just as I suspected. Most of you love GSF - I knew it had to be true. You were just following the pack mentality and not asserting yourself. It is ok my friends to praise this beautiful fish, stand up like a man and be counted. Do not let the haters out shout your opinion. Admit your love for this magnificent species.



You are quite right Sunil, they taste mushy and not very good. I highly recommend that you eat only Pond Pidgeon (aka Blue Gill). All GSF should be returned to the pond after catching them. All bluegill should be filleted, cooked and consumed.

Here is one of my GSF I caught back in June. It was about 9.5 inches long. They are a fun fight with the right fishing equipment!!

That sir brings a tear to my eye.

LOL I love it!!

I can Honestly Say, That I have Never Caught, Seen, Smelled, Handled, or even come remotely close within the vicinity of a GSF!

That said, I may have been a bit harsh on the GSA!

I never thought I would like Squid or Spinach either. But you can shovel it to me any time!

Just wondering how GSF and Roses get along?

sunil, they taste so good, you could call them the lobster nuggets of all pondom.

rc51, you brought a lil tear to my eye as well, THAT is a TROPHY for the species. you are the first pondbosser to post a picture of a fish that rivals those of jhap and i. between the three of us, we have the largest documented gsf in the country, maybe in the world....unless there are other pondbossers here who beg to differ, we want to see pictures not words.

rc, if you routinely have 8 to 9 inch fish this is quite rare and you should recognize these as trophies for the species. BTW, a 10-inch gsf is EXTREMELY RARE and should be considered a SUPER TROPHY. you obviously have unique conditions in yer pond. i would not hesitate to try and manage or maintain for those trophy fish in yer pond, very cool.

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the kind words. When I bought my pond this last May I started fishing it and all that was in there was GSF and LMB and that's it! My Next door Neigh's told me that, the pond has been sitting for quite some time unmanaged. I know for a fact I caught 15 or so one day and they were almost all within 7 to 9 inches. I will post a few more bigger one's this spring again. That is my pond and I am sticking with it. GSF and LMB. I think I can make the 2 work once I get things better under control with a tagging system.

Oh no, don't tell me that there's a SouthEast Chapter of GSA starting up!!

I caught a GSF in Lake Castaic here in California, hit my bait rather hard as i was reeling in the bobber. He was probably only 4 or 5 inches long. I was impressed by it however.

We are international.

I keep telling folks that pound per pound a GSF is a terrific fighter, one of the best in the sunfish family IMHO. It is amazing the size of lure they will strike.

At DIED's place it is fun to feed fish. He has BG and GSF (as well as other species). The BG attack a pellet in sort of a sideways motion. The GSF rocket up from below hit the pellet, immediately turn and head back to the depths. The difference in prey attack is very distinct between these to species (at least that has been our observations. DIED has observed this quite a bit and pointed it out to me, it's obvious once you watch it occur.

Catching a 9-10 inch GSF on ultra light tackle is a blast!

Good for you. It is my belief that GSF can be managed just like any other sunfish.

If I had it to do all over again I wouldn't have introduced BG into my pond. I started out with just LMB and GSF and later introduced BG and RES. I wanted the RES because we had a snail and parasite problem - they seem to have worked wonders on that situation. I added the BG to feed the LMB. I now regret adding the BG because they may eventually overpopulate the GSF. I intend to fish for pond pigeons (aka BG) with extreme prejudice.

JKB, GSF absolutely love roses!. GSF love most plants. But those little green meanies really mellow out around roses. They just love to curl up in a hole and have the roots from the rose bush hug them tight.....they gladly give their lives to be plant food!

Remember, There is nothing any prettier than the scales of 1000 dead green sunfish, glistening with dew (even DMD) on the soil of a freshly planted garden..............Mmm Mmm Mmm

And you wonder why you are constantly having truck problems.

I would implement a chipper shredder, ya know, to help with soil aeration and all. Small pieces mix better.

The thing I like about a GSF and LMB pond is you don't need pellets and minnows, you can get by with just minnows and or spawning for food. I don't need no automatic feeders and such trying to take care of. Now if I started over from scratch I might do what Bob Lusk talked about in his video and try to do a all pellet food. That way once again I am just feeding one type of food to my fish. I added 200 CNB and 50 RES for more spawning action and to have some RES for parasites. Unless you want to spend a lot of money of feeder fish I suppose you need to have some CNB for spawning.

Touché my friend, touché


Where the hell is Yolk Sac ?!?!

rc, while others cringe, i like yer approach. the gsf will take readily to pellets if you want to try some hand feeding. sunil actually convinced me to try and i'm glad i did. i go through about 100 pounds per season just feeding a few evenings a week. i really enjoy that time with my pond.

my original gsf stockers came out of a lmb heavy pond, which was also a real hoot to fish.

Hey Dave, Maybe I might try it sometime but I really like the fact that I only have to worry about one type of food. Not to mention the fact I can scoop up a few minnows out of my pond anytime and put them on a hook and I am fishing. My bass and GSF are VERY minnow trained. This fall one day I caught 22 bass on a little 3 inch black and silver rapala. They tore it up! What's funny is if I let the rapala just sit there after hitting the surface about 30 seconds later I would almost everytime have a GSF hit it. It's great fun just knowing your fixing to get a strike it's just a matter of when.

The devil's spawn! GSF lovers unite in this thread. I cannot say I hate them, but have seen many impoundments that were overrun by them. I think my big problem with them is thier tendency to overpopulate and displace fish I prefer. Then after they complete phase one they even overpopulate themselves and you catch 3" tropies. Not exactly rodbenders. Good for kids fishing with cane poles. Hard to clean and eat a 3" fish.

My dream or ideal pond does not have them. My favorite sunfish is the shellcracker. I cannot get enough of them. But some people in El Dorado love greenies. That's what makes the world a great place. To each his own.

I don't get how they overpopulate when all I have read on this forum is how they only spawrn 1 time a year??? Or did I read that wrong? It's like any other fish just like Bob says keep the bigger ones and cull the smaller ones. Slot limits baby, slot limits! Really though how many time do GSF spawn in a year? JHAP do you know? Is it one? If so I don't get how they can overpopulate anything.

They have a different habitat and are prolific producers in that habitat. The females will deposit eggs in several males nests, up to 10,000. And they love the shallows, where not much else does. Then with that big mouth they outcompete other species fry, by aggressive feeding, sheer numbers and domination of the edge or shallows. Plus they breed right away, another competitive advantage. I guess the best way to put it is htey have a niche and outcompete everything else in it.

Frog, I've not found that to be true in my area of North Texas. The creeks seem to be full of GSF without a lot of bluegills and no RES.

In man made ponds they are usually introduced by man, mostly by hatchery mistakes. I had a bunch of them in one pond but over time, the bluegills just outspawned them and predation pretty well took care of the rest. At first, I bought into the bad GSF mantra and tossed them on the bank. Then I started noticing bent hooks and good fight and started liking them. Being more cylindrical than a BG, the bass seem to prefer them (I guess).

They seldom last more than 5 years in ponds around here.

A couple of years ago, the creek on my place got to my forage pond and I wound up with some GSF. When I seine, I don't sort them out. I've never found them to be a problem.

But, we are in vastly different regions.

Interesting. Our creeks have a mix of GSF and LES, with the GSF outnumbered and outsized by the LES to a significant degree. In the rivers, which have a lot more predators, especially spots and LMB, GSF are very seldomly encountered. My experience mirrors DD's; with a healthy population of predators they don't tend to be problematic in any practical sense.

I generally think of GSF as being kind of like the human papilloma virus, or herpes-not likely to cause any real harm, but just knowing that you've got'em can be quite traumatic.

You know I have only read about the problems with them in the Northeast. If I have an issue with them I drawdown and take thier shallow cover away and they get inhaled. But I have witnessed first hand how they took over a man made lake in a residential neighborhood. They hid in these big ol pond rocks along the shoreline. Eddie Murphy had a house there, an exclusive community. But I have an access key. At first it was an amazing CC, LMB, BG and Crappie lake. Now you catch bullheads and greenies, our local junk fish. It took less than 10 years to go from great to a waste of time. It also became a massive skeeter pit. Nothing is the same everywhere. I will say GSF have a higher probability of adversely affecting a pond than any other bg/sf species.

Dave D,

What's up bud? You hit it on the head when you said fight! That's one reason why I like them they are aggressive and hit and fight just about like small LMB. It's like having LMB in your pond but they look different and are not as picky as LMB. A little smaller then most bass but still a blast! I can't wait to throw a bobber around my new brush piles I made and see what happens this spring. I am starting to get cabin fever I can't wait to go fishing again in March!!!

Not that I would ever admit to doing such a thing so I have a friend, and he fished GSF and bg side by side as bait. The gsf lasted a bit longer even after being hit, they are tough little cusses. The bg died much sooner and easier. I'd say the bass really took either one readily. Hey some people love them, some love goldfish. In the canals and sloughs around me the local bg never let them get established. They have been a minority for decades. And I have seen plain ol bg overpopulate and stunt in some places. The only ones I have never seen it happen with is RES. My only problem with GSF is I rarely catch any of any size. I catch lots of very large bg and res, but not many gsf. They are not really the devil's spawn I guess.

Yolk,

Maybe that's why I don't seem to have a problem with them. I only have a 1 acre pond and I have plenty of bass in there to take care of the smaller ones! Although my bass don't seem to be very big? I think it's becuase I have too many like Davd D said and I have to cull some more. I bought the number tagging system from Greg G. and I am going put it to use with my LMB big time. I am going to tag about 25 to 30 of them and all the rest will be coming out so I can get some nice 2 to 3 pounders hopefully.

Hey Frog,

I must have the right situation cause I have quite a few larger ones? I don't know? I can see your point catching 3 inch GSF wouldn't be any fun course catching 3 inch anyting wouldn't be any fun, but the 8 and 9 inchers are quite fun I must say!

The only time I have ever seen GSF over populate was when they were in ponds by themselves. As soon as they get introduced to BG and LMB as neighbors, they become a very small percentage of the pond community and within 5 years are hard to even find. They tend to hug any rocky areas the pond has and that's about it.

Died, RC51 and I have had the opportunity to catch a decent sized GSF. I've said it before and I'll say it again (and again, and again) GSF hit like a freight train and fight like they are possessed. IMHO, pound per pound, a GSF is one of the best fighting of the sunfish.

Can they become overpopulated and stunt in a pond? Sure. So can BG and LMB - there is thread after thread on this forum in which folks are asking about a LMB and BG overpopulation and stunting problems.

IMHO their are actual differences and perceived differences between BG and GSF.

First that GSF can and probably do compete with LMB because of the size of their mouth and aggression level than do BG.

Secondly BG are much more prolific and therefore are considered a better forage base for predators. IMHO however this can be a double edged sword.

For the most part very few people are actively managing a pond for GSF and therefore their only exposure to GSF is the 2 to 3 inch variety.

Catch a 10 inch GSF and you would have an entirely different feeling about them.

So my conclusion is this, everyone should stop whining and start stocking GSF.

Hey JHAP,

There is no doubt they compete with the LMB, but what is cool about it is if you can get them to the size were talking about they are not near as picky as a LMB when it comes to taking a lure. I have actually caught a couple of my bigger ones on a 5 inch Zoom Super Fluke with a 1 ought bass hook! It's crazy what they will try to eat! They have much bigger eyes then they do stomachs that's for sure!

How many states out there actually DO NOT reccommend stocking GSF? Some? Most? All? Does anyone say stock them? Anyone? No matter how pretty of a picture you try to paint about how great catching a rare large specimen is, they are duds. I can name 10 pond species I would rather have in front of them. And many don't want them at all. They make good bait.

OK, your dispprobation is clear, but it is now time for the acid test, Pond Frog:

If you had a pond full of GSF, would stock northern pike to control them?

pondfrog, you may misunderstand something in this equation. its a miracle of sorts, a natural phenomena born out of no direct investment nor active management, just a depression filled with water left to its own device.

sounds like rc, and certainly jhap and I discovered something really wonderful quite by chance. we experienced the joy of trophy gsf in unique unmanaged pond situations where bass and gsf had been stocked, left unmanaged, and after many years, the resulting ponds were an absolute hoot to fish, loaded with stunted 10 to 12 inch bass w/ an occassional pig (my personal best lmb is 9 pounds out of the pond to which i refer) and significant numbers of trophy sized gsf. in my case i took some of those monster gsf for my pond and continued to grow them even bigger to near record porportions. as a side note, the last couple years my pond has suffered from severe water loss, and i doubt today i still have these fish, but their offspring, which i do have, reached 8-inches in less than 3 years.

if yer a pond owner who cant (or doesnt care to) invest lots of money or time, but wants fun farm pond style fishing, a lmb heavy/gsf pond is certainly one way to go.....

rc, a couple summers ago, i was targeting some lmb pigs in cattails, hucking a 6-inch fat whacky rigged senko (on a fairly big octopus hook)......a nine inch gsf crushed it as it hit the water, he inhaled the entire senko, it was amazing.

Dave,

I love it! Now that's what I am talking about! GSF with atittude! Frog were not trying to paint anything the color is already on the wall were just using it instead of trying to change it and it's a blast! Now if i had a 3 or 4 acre pond or bigger would I want some other types of fish?? Sure but I would not get rid of my bigger GSF for it. It's not really about what other people recommend all the time. I believe in the same idea of "It All Depends" when it comes to stocking fish as well as managing your ponds ecosystem. It's all good. The one thing that is great about all of this is it's my pond I don't have to convice anyone about what I like in it. It's just my preference. Your right Dave. My pond has all 10 to 12 maybe 13.5 inch bass in it and some BIG GSF. But I am going to work on that to get my bass a little bigger and have a very fun pond to fish with a BUNCH of attitude!!

Today is the 5TH, so every month I take it, that way I do not have to answer any questions.

Well, since you posted today. I searched 403 cartoons, got a bit more acquainted with photo-chop, it was a really creative and productive day, then I went outside.

Changing atmospheric conditions created a tear running down my cheek. I wiped it, and contemplated, "Is this really a sign".

Then I re-read the posts, and my heart grew 10 times in a moment for the three GSF faithful, and decided to destroy the damaging arguments.

I feel sooooo clean now.

Disclaimer:
This dose not mean I want GSF in my pond.

Frog, I've read and re-read your post about the pond/lake that wound up as a GSF and bullhead water hole and have trouble believing that GSF caused the problem. Sorta like thinking out loud, I'm thinking with both of my typing fingers here. My disclaimer here is that I wasn't there and can be dead wrong.

I really suspect a water quality problem MAY have been the initial cause. I would postulate(six bit word) that a DO crash hit and bullheads and GSF were the biggest % of the survivors. As I'm sure you know, a DO crash can be a 15 minute event that can have far reaching effects with the biggest part of the casualties being the largest fish. If that happened, I can see that bass and catfish would have a real problem reestablishing once bullheads become the biggest % of the biomass. Channel cats, unlike bullheads, have a real problem with recruitment in the face of any type of predation so I'm not surprised at their eventual demise.

I suspect that there are some bass and bluegill left but, unless steps are taken, nest robbing and predation by both dominant species will keep it from ever being a viable bass/bluegill habitat.

On a smaller scale, I've seen bullheads completely take over a BOW but never GSF. Bullheads are almost impossible to eradicate without chemicals. They are really good at what they do. GSF seem to somewhat survive once bullhead infestations occur.

Another problem that I have seen is a cheapass HOA that just doesn't pay attention.

Again, I wasn't there so may be 110% wrong. I often am.

My HBG look just like this that I stocked back in December 2009. I have not caught any this big yet, but the fish look like this.

Was I sold GSF, or could yours be a hybrid?

Or are there just minor differences that I am not able to see since I am not an expert in this?

Please let me know.

Thanks