We caught these this afternoon, one of them looked like a GSF, while the other two look like some sort of cross. We had lots of GSF in the 1 yr old pond when we stocked the CNBG in Oct 07. They have now been in the pond together for about 14 months. So do I have hybrids, or are these just GSF ?

Pure GSF


Hybrid BG1 ?


Hybrid BG2 ? (9 inches 14 oz)

They look like straight GSF to me - darn nice straight GSF.

JHAP will no doubt be contacting you about your dues for the Green Sunfish Association; the money goes toward Deathstar operating expenses, member activity fees, and the GSFA's brussels sprouts eradication effort.

Darryl,

Same here. Look like straight Green sunfish to me too. A little dark maybe but that may be due to other factors. That's a big one for a green sunfish! One can tell they are growing fast due to the small fin sizes.

If you could send me two I'd be glad to mount one up for free for you to cast another one up of the same size for the Pond Boss Jesse West Endowment fund auction next year!

I've done a bluegill for the first auction here and will finish up a large redear (shellcracker) soon for the last show that will be auctioned off on the website. The next fish I want to do for the next Pond Boss convention is a green sunfish, but I'm not sure I can get a decent sized specimen up here to cast. I prefer to do reproductions for the auction. The casting would be done by a specialist in Wisconsin but I do the painting.

I go straight GSF. Very nice fish. JHAP will be at your pond shortly!

Have cupcakes ready.

What is the history of the stocking of the pond ? Any creeks that get into the pond?

I would say mostly GSF but would not bet on them being 100% as the fish genetics folks in the south at least report that it is very hard to find pure GSF. No hatchery ( out of about 25 that I know in the south - TX included) sells GSF.

See this thread for lots of pics and info.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=1341&Number=14459#Post14459

Although I'm definately no expert, I would have said hybrid rather than pure GSF. The GSF that DIED and I have tend to be slightly more elongated, have a vivid yellow coloring at the bottom of the fish, and ususally have a pronounced black spot at the back of the dorsal and rump (highly scientific technical term) fin. The fish above seem too roundish to be pure GSF to me. Here's not such a great photo of the GSF that I catch in my pond.

No worries Archer, unlike BISA, the GSA does not collect dues from it's membership. We use the time honored traditions of extortion, money laundering, and kidnap for ransom in order to raise money for the GSA.



Oh and by the way sometimes kidnap for ransom backfires on you. We kidnapped TomG and demanded a ransom from his wife. We held him for two weeks all the while his wife refused to pay a ransom unless he promised in writing to finish some of his house projects. We then offered to give him back, she refused. Finally we had to pay her $100 to take TomG back as the beer budget had gone through the roof. Between the $100 give-back fee and the beer costs we lost a lot of money on that whole deal. We're just real glad we didn't kidnap Sunil.

My first impression is much like JHAP's. There doesn't seem to be nearly enough yellow on the fins (none in the second pic) to be pure GSF but maybe they look different in Texas.

Just remember guys color is a poor way to identify a fish by itself. Fish taxonomists have a saying (which I can't remember) about the foolishness of using color to identify a fish. One must use other methods in conjunction WITH any coloring.

Diet, water color, bottom strata color, water temperature, time of year, and health can all have an effect on the coloration of the fish along with local genetics of the species.

No offense meant!

No offense taken Cecil. It's just that these two fish don't look very similar to me. But once again I'm an amature at this stuff.

DIED's GSF


GSF? Above

That's because California is another planet! Everything looks different there!

Even the people are a little weird!

We have no creeks nearby, and the pond sides are elevated 2 ft above natural ground to get more depth. The pond was dug in Feb 2006, then stocked in Oct 07 with CNBG, RES, and FH minnows. We caught some 6-7 inch GSF by Nov 2007, and Todd Overton thoerized that they probably got a good number of the 1-3 in stockers, so we put in some 4-5 inch CNGB in Dec 2007. We have taken out over 200 GSF since then. None of them looked like the ones at the top of this post. They all were much more sleek, yellow bellies, colorful fins, and the sides seem to have longer lateral striping. The top of the head and jaw bottom seem similar to CNBG.

I did not know about the auction. If we catch another one I will let you know. I guess they get this big due to AQMX 600 everyday.

I would protest this statement, demand a retraction, require an apology, and request for a moderators immediate action.... if only it were a lie. Stupid, stupid truth.

Well whatever they are the look like they are fun to catch Archer.

I agree with Cecil that color can be deceiving. However, this fish sure does show a lot of that pinkish and purplish color on its body that is so common in a pure CNBG. It even has a bit of a hump on the head that is charactoristic of BG and not GSF. The mouth is bigger than a typical BG, but seems slightly smaller than a pure GSF.

I've seen that purple color in hybrid bluegill: Green sunfish X northern bluegill

Of Darryl's first 3 photos, I think the top fish is a female and the lower 2 fish are male - all GSF. Colors are subdued likely due to winter phase coloration and or water color as variables mentioned by Cecil.

In JAHP's post of DIED's fish it is a male GSF while I think the lower fish of Darryl's is a female. Each photo was very likely taken in a different season - 1st spring - early summer, latter winter.

Just personal opinion here, but I think they all look like pure GSF. They all look identical to fish we see around here in turbid waters. I'm sure there are some regional morphological and coloration variations.

Well there ya have it. They must be GSF then. A consensus between Theo, Commander Cody, and Bruce Blue Gill Condello is good enough for me. I stand detected, inspected, corrected, rejected, and neglected before you. Oh the humiliation.

JHAP, one must remember there is considerable variation in the appearance of any species wrt sex, age, etc. between locations.

For example, think people in Hollywood vs. the rest of humanity.

Yep, I should have kept that in mind Theo.

I've heard that unless you actually inspect their gametes it is often very difficult to properly determine the sex of certain sunfish.

In many ways people that live in Hollywood are very similar to sunfish.

I think that is all I can say about that without getting moderated.

Hey I wonder if pond owners in California have fish with silicone implants and inject botox in their cheeks? I hear Anold their governor used to use male hormones to beef up.

Any you thought you were just being funny, from the New York Times....

Fish diagnostics range from a basic exam ($40), blood work ($60) and X-rays ($55) to the advanced: ultrasound ($175), CAT scans ($250). Veterinarians tube-feed fish. They give fish enemas, fix broken bones with plates and screws, remove impacted eggs, treat scoliosis and even do fish plastic surgery -- anything from glass-eye implantation to ''surgical pattern improvement,'' with scale transplantation, scale tattooing or unsightly-scale removal.

New York Times "Fixing Nemo"

And to think, all I can do for those crippling fish problems is add two fillets to the dinner menu.

I think I need to find a market for some of my fish in California! Sounds like money is no object to some of those people.

Actually I do have a regular customer there that is an American Airlines pilot that does taxidermy on the side.

Life was good,no,life was great.Here I was,all the beer I could drink,a fishing pole,a lake,a fish stringer on my angle and all the snacks I wanted.I just sat on the dock and fished.Id eat and drink and catnap and fish.It was wonderful. weeks of wonderful bliss.
And then it happened somebody pops the balloon.Im not on vacation,Im a prisoner onboard the deathstar.They mixed mind altering substance in my beer and its not a fish stringer but a ball and chain.Its not a lake but a hologram.Then to add insult to injury they dump back on my front lawn right in front of my wife.
Then she starts in about all the honeydos I need to complete.And what kind of cheap operation can only pay a lousy hundred bucks to get rid of my sorry butt.And NO,you cant have any beer money.Ah well,at least Ill have the memory that I thought I got 2 weeks off anyway.

Cecil,
If you have a tough time finding a GSF, I may be able to sacrifice a couple this spring/summer (provided I can catch the bigger ones). I will let you know how it looks when the weather begins to warm.

Hi Bill, of the top 3 pics in this thread, can you please elaborate on why you think the top fish is female, and the bottom two are male?

also, what leads you to believe my fish is male? that pic was taken in may 07 which is late spring/early summer here.

if just going by opercular flap characteristics, i think i understand, but what else are you observing?

Thanks,
Dave

I may take you up on that. I have a pond I can fish that used to have some big ones but that was a few years ago. Don't tell the GSF lovers but I delivered some bass to that pond that really reduced the GSF!

Don't forget, though, Cecil... I am one of them .

I caught a couple @ 10" early last season (although I did not have a scale, I would say they were ever so slightly underweight), but I started a feeding program and a tilapia program last year, so their RW should be improving. I'll keep you updated.

Mouth too small for a pure greenie. I know the whole head is small due to rapid growth, but, still, the mouth is small as compared with the rest of the head.
GSF (oops) have big mouths.

You may be riiiiight
I maaaay be craaaaaazy

(Bill Joel)

But Burger look how small the fins are in relation to the rest of the body due to rapid growth. (First pics in the thread) Typically when I see that in a fish I also see smaller heads then normal.

But, on the other hand, if those are hybrids after 11 months, whoa! Those are freaks.

But on the other, other hand, well you know, I just dont know.

Billy Joel, was he one of those 80s 1 hit wonders?

Are you kidding me Burger? He had top 10 hits in the 70's, 80's, and 90's with 6 grammies and 150 million albums sold and counting. He's also been inducted into three music hall of fames. The guy is an icon!

Shame, shame ,shame on Burger!

I think it's very nice that Elton John lets Billy Joel open for him.

I thought that was Sunil

No, no, you got it all wrong. Sunil is a wrestler in the WWF. He's no twinkle toes. Before he goes into the ring he bench presses 1000 lbs.!

And he doesn't play the piano. He powerlifts them.

OK, if Billy Joel is in 3 music halls of fame, why aint that Skynard guy, whats his first name......Oh yeh, Lynard, in one.
What say you, Dr. Willis?
Sunil military presses a grand piano with Elton and Billy on board, Elton singing 'Come on baby light my Fire' while giving directions to the BBQ joint.

There is no one person named Lynyrd Skynrd. It's a band. And it was inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame back in 2006. Sure ya don't mean Ronnie Van Zant the lead singer?

Oh come on Cecil. Next thing you know you're gonna be telling us there was no one person named Jethro Tull either.

I have it from a very reliable source that Jethro Tull is good friends with Uriah Heep and Max Webster. Now there's three great musicians!

Did ya know THE ROLLING STONES is the first, middle, and last name of the guy that is the lead singer for the band Mick Jagger? A lot of people don't know that.