Had a pond dug about 2 years ago. 1/3 acre. Looked like pretty good clay all around. Very little natural drainage to it though. All home and barn downspouts go into it, but wasn't enough. Dug a well last fall which seemed to be filling it. However, it got to within about a foot and a half of the rip rap and overflow pipe, and doesn't seem to be making any more progress. The well is producing 12 GPM. I calculate it should have finished filling in about 10 days, but it has been working at it for a couple of months. What solutions are out there for sealing without having to drain and add clay

OK. did more research. I guess Bentonite is my only realistic option. however, can't realistically empty nearly 1M gallons of water. I've seen mixed reviews on broadcasting it over the water surface...any ideas?

I wonder if the water level got up to the point of the topsoil and the said topsoil is porous enough for the water to escape that way.

Might shut the pump off for a week or two and see where the level stabilizes. That is what I would do. Then at least you know if the leak is somewhere lower or closer to the upper water level.

Once you know that, maybe you will have more to go on.

You say it is a "dug" pond. Was there no ravine so no dam? Or did some of the cut material be used to make a dam?

If there is a dam, check for leaks below the dam. Wet spot at base of dam or a ways below it if water coming underneath the dam. If there is no dam and some of the lower clay was not used to seal the topsoil level AND if the topsoil could lead to a nearby lower area where the water could sweep out, then the topsoil could be the problem. Look for squishy ground around the pond in a certain areas (the part that leads to a lower area where the water could go). If it is muddy/mucky then that might be where your water is going. If it is dry all the way around the pond, especially on the down hill side of the pond, then it has to be going somewhere else.

If it is the topsoil leaking and if you have any of the old clay material from the bowl area, you could lower the water to below the clay area, backhoe out a perimeter along the edge to below topsoil level, and create a clay seal around the top perimeter. Maybe would only need it on the lower side. But all this is subject to that being your problem.

Quit pumping and find the leakage area first. That would be my first step.

thanks for the reply.
the pond site is significantly sloped, so the builder dog the hole and used that material to build a dam on the low end. no ravine. the sides were pretty well clay looking. I will check around the dam when some of this stupid snow and ice clears. they did leave kind of a shelf in the bottom of the pond opposite the dam that ended up with deep ruts (2') from water runoff before the grass took hold (new house construction)...that area may be suspect as well

Where the dam meets the bowl can be a problem area if they did not get proper compaction or marry the two different materials together well enough.

When the snow gets off and the ground dries up, walk the back side of the dam where the dam meets the original earth. Look for leaks there.

Where the water is getting to a certain level and not going any higher, pay particular attention to the area behind the dam that would be at the water level or a little below. Might even be just one spot causing the problem or they might not have brought the core trench far enough the perimeter so that particular area has no core to tie the subsoil in with the dam material.

Hopefully it heals itself or you find the leak and it is a relatively easy fix. Sometimes it is not.

Draining the pond is pretty easy. Was the bottom/sides of the pond compacted when they finished digging? If not, then if it was mine, I'd drain it, compact it, and then refill.

I haven't seen (or heard) of any leaking ponds being fixed permanently by sprinkling bentonite on the water.

You can rent a gasoline powered semi-trash pump that can move a LOT of water per hour. I've drained dug ponds of 1 ac in size with a 16,000 gph semi-trash pump. Let it run for a couple of days and the water was gone. If the pond is leaking, then the water will go down even quicker.

A 1/3 acre pond can lose 12+gpm to evaporation alone. Water volume is easily underestimated as a pond fills because it spreads out so much wider as depth increases. A HUGE volume of water can be lost to "wicking" into the surrounding soils too....this may take a million or more gallons alone to get saturated, but would not be considered a "leak".

U could use pigs to. Seal iit tooo I had 2 ponds with rock bottoms would always go dry in summer put pigs in them for about. A year they fixed them took pigs out 4 years ago havent went dry yet not saying its the best way but does work. And its cheap and good eating toooo

Cattle and sheep will do well also...There is a reason for calling a compactor a "sheep's foot" roller....

got a chuckle out of the pigs idea...pretty good one. when they dug, they were in there with a dozer and a track hoe, so should be somewhat compacted. I wish I had done more research when they dug it; I would have done the bentonite thing then. Gonna try to let it stabilize to a point and try a limited bentonite fix. if that doesn't work, I guess i'll rent the trash pump and empty it
thanks for all the suggestions

Pigs are better than a dozer really. Dozers dont pack very well.

Jeremiah, tracked, heavy equipment can have less actual PSI on soils than a refrigerator would. They are designed to spread the weight over a large area along the track and to NOT compact the soils (or sink into them).

I always thought this photo was an excellent portrayal of tracks-vs-wheels.



Taken from this thread.

I guess turning the pump off to let it stabilize and looking around to see something specific is a start...and then draining. gonna be a busy spring with this

Jeremiah, when the excavator was here renovating my pond it tracked across a wet area. It sunk down about 3". I walked in the track marks that it left and sunk past my knees. That's why using a piece of tracked equipment doesn't work when trying to compact the soil. Do some research and look for information on how many PSI the equipment exerts as ground pressure and you'd be suprised.

I've never been any more impressed with pigs and cows than I have dozers. It needs to be done in 2 ft lifts and that would string out the job for a long time. Nothing beats a sheeps foot roller used by a knowledgeable pond builder.

I find that the right soils make a huge difference. Nothing is going to help pack a bunch of sand or rocks. I found that out the hard way.

NRCS guy told us we would get adequate compaction with our 65E Challenger pulling a loaded 4 wheel rubber tired 12 yard scraper if we would move over the width of the tire trak and track all the area (6" lifts).

That is what we used compacting our core trench and the rest of the dam. No leaks that I can see, but we have relatively forgiving soil. We have clay pan soil so have a good source of clay, and he said even our type of topsoil had adequate clay that it would usually seal without added clay, but to always use our best material in the core trench, then in the middle of the dam. That is what we did.

So a lot is likely dependent on what soil a person has to work with.

Most of the hundreds (maybe thousands) of old cow ponds in this area were nothing more than scuffing the topsoil off the dam area, and pushing up the bowl into a dam, compacting it with the dozer. NRCS guy said it was not unusual to see some of them with slight seeps, but we are in an area that gets enough rainfall not USUALLY a problem. Not saying that is the proper way to do it, and it definitely is not the way we did our "nice" 3 acre pond. But a farmer can not spend $50,000 on a cow pond to water 30 cows. So a lot of ponds were built at minimal cost, and almost all of them held water (I have one farm we bought 25 years ago that had an existing pond that did not -was dry - it had sandstone in the bottom). We normally do not worry about compacting the bottoms of ponds (unless there is gravel, rocks, etc). Our area is such that water does not sink down. It runs off the top. We have a subsoil percolation rate that is measured in hundredths of an inch per hour with no compaction. If we have a low spot in a water control terrace in a farm field, we have a "pond" that will last till the water evaporates.

I think the important thing is to have someone local that knows the soils and also professional recommendations either from an experienced pond builder or NRCS to evaluate the situation before the pond is started. People that know the area and soils. In other words, one size does not fit all.

Good stuff all around. Nothing new from me but I'll add a little anyway. I wish I had spent more time researching but there comes a point you learn from doing and then from failing. First time through our 1.25 acre pond, excavator 'compact' maybe by hand or something but not well and it did not hold water. It cost a little bit more but piece of mind was worth it so I found a guy who would rent me a 28,000lb sheepsfoot and a 32,000lb flat shell roller. I bought some DB-200 soil additive and laid down several lifts of marginal clayey soil. There was or is no substitute for the right compacting equipment. It cost about $1,500 for delivery (1 hr away), pick up, gas and rent on machines. I drove them so it saved some money.

Afterwards, the soil wicked for months. I have never seen anything like it nor expected it but all around the banks, the clay sucked upward water, sometimes 12 to 20 inches up the bank. Took awhile to fill 1.25 acres at 20gpm average 5 feet deep but it holds well and the fish are doing nicely.

Last summer I finished the perch pond the same way about 1/4 acre, stocking perch this spring.

piece of mind is to compact properly and hey, driving those rollers was quite a bit of fun!

All good information. I'm going to try the easiest first, which is to let it fill with the rain coming (hopefully it will), and then turn the well pump off and see what happens. If it recedes to a point, I think I will add bentonite to some suspect areas that I think I have already identified. if it doesn't work, then I guess I have to drain it and start over. Has anyone had any experience with a liner? Sounds easier than compacting; and it is only 1/3 acre pond.

If I have to drain and compact, can anyone recommend a reputable pond excavator in the central Ohio (Dayton) area?

if it is wicking, once saturated, it would stop?

Jeremiah,

Just out of curiosity, are there any large Cottonwood or Willow trees nearby?

I know it's a stretch, but just a thought

First I am not a professional and so this is not a professional answer. It is an opinion.

My opinion is, if a leak is big enough to cause erosion, it is VERY unlikely to get better over time, and likely will worsen.

If the leak is a seep, it may or may not get "better" or quit entirely. If sediment or clay in the water seeps through the seep area and deposits the clay particles, eventually (eventually being the key word) the leak could stop. I'm pretty sure that is what bentonite does. It is basically like radiator stop leak. It seeps into the leak clogging it up. Adding lime causes the clay particles to flocculate and settle out. So this could free up clay particles to fill the void area in a leak.

If I had a very small leakage amount, I personally would not get overly excited about doing a lot till I saw if natural forces clogged the seep up. Might take a couple years. Bigger leaks................. I will leave the opinions to the professionals.

Edit: one obvious problem with waiting a couple years to see if a leak seep type leak stops. What does a person do about stocking the pond if it is a new pond? Stock and hope the leak stops, or wait and see? Don't have an opinion on that one.

I went through same thing couple of years ago. Bought a pallet of bentonite for $500. It worked for a month and then wound up having to drain pond. 18 inch clay liner fixed it for now. $500 wasted on bentonite. I used the sprinkle method.

Read more on the horror story here.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=23225&Number=292852#Post292852

Thanks for the input folks. Regarding trees...no cottonwoods or willows. the nearest ~150' are Emerald Ash (unfortunately about two acres of them); and that's a project for later...

I've spent more time on research on the pond issue than on anything else in the last couple of weeks. I don't want to drain and rework unless I absolutely have to. I toyed with the bentonite sprinkle idea since I think the edge where the dam meets the bottom, and the "shelf" the excavator build on the end opposite the dam are suspect (narrowing the area to treat). However, all the comments in this and other forums don't support giving that a try. I bumped into the ESS 13 product during my research, and have been in email conversation with those folks. I'm headed out of the house now to get a metal yardstick. Gonna measure changes (if any) while the well pump is still running. and then after turning the well pump off. I think what I am going to find out is that most of the 17,000 gallons a day going into it are then going somewhere else! I guess the rate of loss, without the well input factors into the amount of ESS 13. Don't even know what that stuff costs yet. The really crummy part is that the pond was part of the contract to build the house...same excavator. However, he is somewhat abrasive to deal with. I think he is going to tell me to go pound sand when I bring up the pond...therefore looking for the cheapest but effective fix. Regarding waiting...I really want to go ahead with stocking. It was supposed to happen in March; but I cancelled that for now

FWIW, my memory might be wrong, but long term fix with ESS-13 had the same results as with bentonite. I think one guy in New England/New York area tried it. IIRC after a year the problem came back.

Hmmm...that's not good news

If you truly have good clay then don't waste your money on that other stuff. That stuff has its purposes but with having a good clay resource you have what you need already. I would suspect that it is bad construction causing the leak. Spend your money fixing it properly. I live in the Dayton area too and our soils are very heavy with clay so there should be plenty of clay available to properly fix the pond. The ess 13 will probably run you at least $5,000 plus shipping from Arizona, a sheepsfoot can be delivered to your site for about $300 or so for the day if you want to do it yourself.
I would highly recommend contacting your soil and water district, they are very helpful and knowledgeable

Also, if you want to know your soil makeup go to websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov
This is a really powerful software tool that is free
it takes a little playing around to get to know the software but once you do you can generate a soil report of your soil makeup.

I was at loss of words when ess13 told me 4 grand and all my fish would die. They also said best method was to drain and spray. Wow! I said.

It is pretty remarkable stuff but not a magic pill by any means.

Maybe this was already posted, but when the contractor built the dam did he strip off all organic material and dig a core trench under the dam to assure the right type of clay was present?If not, that could be a problem. Check the ground behind the dam and make sure it is not wet. As long as they built the dam in lifts of 1 to 2 ft, compaction shouldn't be a problem (even with track machines).If they threw a pile up with the hoe and leveled it a little with dozer then that's a problem. Bentonite is not the answer in my opinion..Even if you did try it, you would have to drain the pond and incorporate it in the soil. Good luck

Thanks for the input. I remember the excavator talking about a clay core. I wasn't around every day, so I can't say for sure what he did. I know he used existing dirt for the dam, but there was plenty of clay when he started to dig. he didn't bring anything in.

Well, snow and ice have been gone for over a week. I walked the area behind the dam this morning to see what I could see. the picture below is telling. Turned the well pump off today to see where it stabilizes...if it does. trying to get the contractor back out