I'm purchasing a shared 13-acre pond and I will own 95% of it. One other person will purchase the other 5% in front of their home. I don't necessarily have a problem with them using the pond as long as they remain respectful and keep it to fishing. What can/should I do to protect myself legally if they are using my portion? Thanks
If possible, start with a face-to-face with the neighbor, get a feel for what their expectations are, and what your impression of them is. Get a usage agreement IN WRITING, laying out who owns what and what is allowed, etc and so on. There may be others on the forum with experience on this, with respect to the wording.
Personally, I would not buy any land that is shared. What if they decide to stock fish in their portion that you do not want? What if they allow lots of fishing by whomever? It's a big can of worms in the making. Even if you like them and everything works out, they could sell in a couple of years, and all starts over.
I'm purchasing a shared 13-acre pond and I will own 95% of it. One other person will purchase the other 5% in front of their home. I don't necessarily have a problem with them using the pond as long as they remain respectful and keep it to fishing. What can/should I do to protect myself legally if they are using my portion? Thanks
Good fences make for good neighbors. Possibly you can delineate their area via some roped together buoys. If you go with shared (I wouldn't, but that's irrelevant) pond, you really need to have clear boundaries set & confirmed in writing.
I'm purchasing a shared 13-acre pond and I will own 95% of it. One other person will purchase the other 5% in front of their home. I don't necessarily have a problem with them using the pond as long as they remain respectful and keep it to fishing. What can/should I do to protect myself legally if they are using my portion? Thanks
Good fences make for good neighbors. Possibly you can delineate their area via some roped together buoys. If you go with shared (I wouldn't, but that's irrelevant) pond, you really need to have clear boundaries set & confirmed in writing.
Be better to avoid it altogether, or create a levee along the property line.
Law varies by state on this matter absent some binding agreement between the parties. May also be dependent on prior ownership and any covenants they created. Its not just the guy there now that matters. What if he sells to someone else.
Keep your friends close but your enemies closer. Go visit bring a gift. Talk about them and let them talk about their self. Controlling a conversation and making it all about you is never good. Make every encounter with them about them. How was your day, what did you do today, how is the family.
In time you will get the offer to buy the property in the mean time you may make a good golfing buddy.
Keep your friends close but your enemies closer. Go visit bring a gift. Talk about them and let them talk about their self. Controlling a conversation and making it all about you is never good. Make every encounter with them about them. How was your day, what did you do today, how is the family.
In time you will get the offer to buy the property in the mean time you may make a good golfing buddy.
Cheers Don.
"Always talk about the other person's interests." Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People.
I would avoid "a shared pond" if at all possible. An earlier shared pond is the sole reason I own my current pond.
Of course you may have a wonderful "one of a kind property" that you are in love with and just have to have it.
So not sure what your situation is, but if it's still possible I would have an attorney draw up a 25 year agreement that states the rules and includes you getting first right to purchase or consider forming an HOA that you control. If you do an HOA any future owner of the other property would also be under the HOA rules. I'm not a lawyer, but I would see if forming an HOA is possible.
You need to check laws in your state, but in many, the landowner owns the land, but NOT the water. So if they have legal access to the water they would have access to all the pond as long as they stayed in the water.
III. Tennessee: Surface Water and Groundwater Supply, Ownership, Use, Rights, Regulation and Permitting
A. Water Property, Use Rights, and Public Interest
Before you can address permits and filings for securing a water supply in Tennessee, you need to consider property ownership and rights of use for any water resource.
1. Most Tennesseans believe that they own the water on and under their fee-owned land, and that this right comes with land ownership.
2. But in fact, the state claims ownership of all waters of Tennessee in the "public trust," including the groundwater, unless the water body is isolated and confined to a single private property. See TENN. CODE ANN. §§ 68-221-702, 69-3-102(a), and 69-3-103. Historically the beds of navigable watercourses are also owned by the state in trust. But landowners can own the beds of non-navigable streams, and landowners' water use rights in either case are very strong in Tennessee even though they are deemed "incomplete and incorporeal."
If they have access to any of the water, they have access to all of the water and so do their guests. Any owner could be held liable for any mishap. Also, there is trash, noise, etc. What if the other owner wants to let his relatives' children use a jet ski, as an example? It's a substantial pond or small lake.
Covenants and agreements are really hard to enforce, and would require a court order.
What a can of worms joint ownership can be and often is.
Thanks, everyone. I agree joint ownership is a hassle, but we already live around the pond. In order to buy most of the pond and some land around it, the only way we can make the deal happen is for it to be joint. A neighbor is selling and this is the way he wished to split it up and the agreement that was made between myself and the other party. There will be a new survey completed for both properties. The 5% owners property will be in a cove. I wonder if I can legally put a fence across the line in the cove if I so chose?? Obviously, we dont want it to ever come to that, but if he turns into that guy inviting every tom, dick, and harry over I would like to know that I at least have a little control with majority ownership. I own a small portion of the pond now and wonder why I'd spend the money if its "really not mine"
If you have bad enough trouble, and you control the dam, you could drain it down where there is no water in the cove, then build a big fence. "The water wasn't there when you built the fence".
While owning the bank is great, you only need to own a square foot of it to use the whole pond. Owning more of the pond bottom does not usually come with benefits. You just have to hope for a good neighbor. If things ever get that bad, it might be permissible for you to drain the pond (if the dam is on you property), and then push up dirt within your property to wall it off from the cove creating separate ponds. Hopefully it will not ever come to that.
I can't speak for other states and it may even change from county to county here, but, like RAH mentions, if a land owner's property line touches the water they have rights to the water. I would like to think that they also have responsibilities to repairs and the like. Let the dam on your property need money sunk into it and you'll find out how much your neighbor likes the pond.
The best advise I can give, beyond "avoid sharing a pond", is to try and establish a written agreement regarding usage, number of guests, adding docks/boats/waterslides/fountains/fish/etc./etc., liability insurance, sharing repairs, culling regulations, mowing and similar maintenance items, penalties for failing to comply, and so on and so on. I'm sure the list is endless and a good lawyer would be most appropriate to employ. A lawyer the specializes in homeowners bylaws would be who I would look for.
A "pond sharing agreement". Sort of like a lease contract, but in perpetuity, to follow the ownership of the adjoining land. Bear in mind these agreements are civil matters, and completely unenforceable unless a court order to enforce is issued. Even then, it could be sketchy.
You could drain it to where it is all on your property, but be careful what you create. The neighbor may rebel with a small pond full of green sunfish, grass carp, gar, and bullheads!!
Thanks, everyone. I agree joint ownership is a hassle, but we already live around the pond. In order to buy most of the pond and some land around it, the only way we can make the deal happen is for it to be joint. A neighbor is selling and this is the way he wished to split it up and the agreement that was made between myself and the other party. There will be a new survey completed for both properties. The 5% owners property will be in a cove. I wonder if I can legally put a fence across the line in the cove if I so chose?? Obviously, we dont want it to ever come to that, but if he turns into that guy inviting every tom, dick, and harry over I would like to know that I at least have a little control with majority ownership. I own a small portion of the pond now and wonder why I'd spend the money if its "really not mine"
When it comes to the pond you don't own any of the water, just like you don't own the air above your property. I understand where you are coming from, but it doesn't change the fact that you and the neighbor have 50/50 access to the pond, even though you pay for 95% of the dirt under the water. If you have access now, I don't see the advantage to paying more for the same thing you already have.
<snip> If you have access now, I don't see the advantage to paying more for the same thing you already have.
IDK, maybe he will have more shoreline? Seems mostly a waste to me, since access will not change. There is no "majority ownership" regarding a body of water adjoining different properties. The key to access control is owning all the land surrounding the pond/lake.
That's how the USACE controls access to its lakes; owning the entire shoreline just past the high water mark.
There is no gain here at all regarding control of the body of water.
That's my thought at this point is why buy it if I don't gain some sort of control with it. Sounds like a waste of money and time creating bass mecca if this guy can invite all his friends and all I can do is watch from my back porch.
I'd like to know for sure if I could run a fence along the line across the pond (barb wire, or roped buoy). That would be the difference with this deal to me. At least I could use that as a sort of warning when we have a friendly talk about guidelines of pond usage.
That's my thought at this point is why buy it if I don't gain some sort of control with it. Sounds like a waste of money and time creating bass mecca if this guy can invite all his friends and all I can do is watch from my back porch.
I'd like to know for sure if I could run a fence along the line across the pond (barb wire, or roped buoy). That would be the difference with this deal to me. At least I could use that as a sort of warning when we have a friendly talk about guidelines of pond usage.
I would guess no. You would have no right to deny access to the rest of the water, or he would have the right to remove any fence that was in the water.
If that's the case than I consider the deal dead in the water. I already have access so I'm wasting money. Under this premise he could split his lot into 3 and now it's a community pond.
I'm meeting with a lawyer Friday to confirm. If something can't be put into deed about controlling water interest than im out and ill just keep fishing it all and maybe go bass boat shopping for the big lake. Thanks again..
It's a sad world we live in when you have to consider fences barbed wire legal action and all with a neighbor. I know that is the way things work today just sad. I'm wondering if its worth just to have a conversation with the neighbor and see what they are like and their intention. Heck they might be great people and have the same standards and goals as you and you all could work together at it and be successful. Sure it's a risk and they might even have to move and someone else moves in but that's part of life and making compromises. If it's bad enough you might even choose to move. But wouldn't it be great to work together with your fellow man instead of always being on the defense.
Seems to me the only advantage to buying more lake frontage would be to restrict further development around the lake. Would you rather share with one or 5-10 properties around the lake?
I can see how a shared lake community would be pretty neat.
If something can't be put into deed about controlling water interest than im out and ill just keep fishing it all and maybe go bass boat shopping for the big lake.
If there was one thing I could change about my property it would be to have exactly what I have, but also have a big lake touch part of the property. I love and prefer fishing my ponds, but sometimes I do miss the adventure of fishing a big lake.
Something like this....for me would be the best of BOTH worlds.