Didn't want to hijack another thread but did something happen that I missed ?

Same here. I've heard references of his leaving, but nothing concrete...

It's concrete...

Not all people realize how their supposed humor, or sometimes their direct comments, can affect other people.

Not all people have the thick skin of politicians or trained law enforcement to deflect these hurting comments. Oftentimes, like in this case, they don't quite meet the limits of moderation that us moderators try to keep as neutral as possible without going well into censorship.

When the two combine, it can produce some very deep wounds.

I would hope that Cecil will return. He is a very valuable Pond Boss friend. But, anyone who is regularly attacked in subtle ways that don't meet the requirements of being moderated, eventually gets tired of fending off criticism.

I would hope we could all bee mindful of this.

We are a group of people who should be learning from each other about fisheries management, not about the nuances of human nature.

I know I am one who hopes that Cecil will continue to provide his knowledge and experience.

I am also one who hopes that those who wish to take exception with others will hold it back, or take a far more friendly tone.

Ken
Moderator

Perfectly said Ken.

Guys and Gals, they're just frickin' fish. We all need to park the testosterone at the door, take whatever meds you need to stay semi-normal, and remember this forum is about helping people and having fun. It just pisses me off that common courtesy has to even be addressed by a mod.

I'll stop here before I say something really stupid.

And that was well said Al.

It is my opinion, that therein lies the problem. Subtle or not, if it is perceived as an attack by a reasonable number of non-participating forum members, including moderators, then the requirements of being moderated need to be addressed and/or amended.

Anyone can go too far on occasion. When you do, you recognize the fact, apologize to whomever was involved, AND MAKE EVERY EFFORT NOT TO DO IT AGAIN......repeat offenses indicate a pattern in my mind.

I love this forum, and think of the members here as family. PondBoss has helped me in ways that far transcend ponds and fish, and I am extremely grateful to everyone here for their support. However if I were to voice my one complaint, it would be that PB has such severe penalties for what is deemed confrontational behavior, that it has (in my opinion) raised the bar too high....you have to REALLY mess up before the axe falls here, but when it finally does it's serious.

Maybe, it should drop a little sooner, and not always deliver a fatal blow???

What's wrong with a mod saying: " Hey ***, back off okay?", in a pm? Having a no nonsense, screw-up-and-you're-gone policy is fine, but I think there should be room for intuitive reasoning somewhere.

The world would be easier if it were all spelled out in black and white, but it most often doesn't work out that way in my experience.

And, these remarks are meant in the most sincere, non-confrontational manner that I know how to express. Not meant as criticism, but rather observation.

Don't criticize the Moderators because they are doing the best job possible. I follow the discussions and trials that the Moderators go through. It is an impossible to difficult job dealing with personal conflicts between members.

As administrator, I would just flip the switch on this stuff. That is why I work on the machine and leave the hard part to the Moderators

A few years ago Sunil moderated me for NOTHING. Boo hoo boo hoo. All I did was repeat a quote, so Sunil was really moderating someone else. But I got the blame, all for NOTHING. Boo hoo boo hoo.
The guy got ten years.

Absolutely. I moderate on a couple of forums myself, and while I am fortunate that they are both comprised of great folks just like what we have here on PB, there will always be unfortunate instances where intervention on a mods part becomes necessary.

I hope Cecil returns, he is great guy and has shared a wealth of knowledge.

He checks in all the time.

You have to remember that Cecil blew a nut and quit the forum for some time a while back.

This problem is on his end tho.

This^^^

If a member feels they are being attacked then the offending person should be told to back off. Doesn't everyone deserve a peaceful experience on the forum?

Some people can be passively aggressive without breaking rules to get to others. This is still bad behavior IMO. Other forums give a warning via PM, then a time-out, then banning.

Is there a way to 'ignore' or block another member on this forum? This function keeps one member from seeing the posts of another.

Me too!!!

You can ignore a member by clicking on their profile and select to ignore this person.

Cecil darn sure better return, He owes me a PVC Muskrat!.....lol

We all have our quirks and buttons, some enjoy pushing buttons, and some quirks invite button pushing.

Cecil is one of my good friends, and one I have yet to meet, he adds a lot here!

JKB, your comments are exhibit A and B for what the guys are trying to nicely tell you by reposting Ken's original comment...

I'm positive in saying that I'm not the only one feeling like the wrong member left.

Cecil had a problem with DD1 and left the forum for quite some time. They kissed after DD1 offered the fig leaf, but it's just his nature.

I really like Cecil, and I'll leave it at that!

I too like Cecil and hope he returns.

I think the mods do a good public job and dont infringe on the freedom of speech.

I have seen several forums absolutely destroyed by power hungry mods. so much that I have left for good, I dont even creep (once a year) that often on them.

Perhaps we'd all be better served if personal interactions between members and the mods were left private as they were intended to be.

Along those lines AL, I would think that if you feel you are being attacked, insulted, etc. then you have a responsibility to report that to a moderator. The moderator should then handle it from there. Each individual is different and there is no way a moderator can know how a person may be feeling.

I think that we all have joked, teased, prodded, some individual at times. I think it is all in good nature or sometimes it's a way that an individual just happens to write can come off as "huh?". For example, if I would do that, and the receiving party didn't like it I sure would hope that the moderators would let me know. But the first step would be that the complaint goes to the moderator, if that don't happen how can any reconciliation form. And yes, all this should be done behind the scenes, as I am hoping it is going on now.

Also, the more an individual posts, the more likely they will subject themselves to be in this scenario. We all know that Cecil is at the top of the list for post count. I sure hope he can come back, he has done so much good.

Unfortunately there is no standard text, font, or color to indicate you are joking or it is intended in fun, or sarcasm. So much is lost in translation vs. face to face these days.

The sad truth is many of us are quite poor at the written language, and it can be taken wrong (or in many cases here, a complete mess leaving me scratching my head). I think we all need a babelfish in our forum ponds.

I will miss Cecil and his love of perch on this forum.

We have all enjoyed most of Cecil's posts but we must admit that he has on occasion stretched the rules and has done so for years. Nobody should be surprised if he has been challenged again.

We had a lot of behind-the-scenes discussions about this issue, as we do with any controversial situation. The moderators, including Dwight as the site administrator, take this very seriously. In some cases we can lock or delete a post or thread within minutes of a violation. We have banned a number of people without most active members being aware of the bans. Most of the moderators check the site multiple times per day, plus we all get automatic emails if you click the [NOTIFY] button at the bottom of a problem post. Similarly, we don't have to delete a lot of posts, but we do it discreetly and we notify those involved, unless they are spammers.

We also sometimes edit posts, and don't always notify if it is not controversial. Sometimes it is humorous. One of the mods recently edited a post by one of our well-respected noncontroversial members. He had a one letter typo in his post that made it appear extremely offensive. It was definitely not meant that way.

Grey areas get discussed a lot. In most cases, the posters receive PMs from one of the moderators.

We try to be as fair and understanding as possible.

Thankfully, we have few issues. We do keep a close eye on several who do sometimes post somewhat controversial or offensive subjects. We deal with them individually.

Ken
Moderator

This is what our society has come to today...We communicate via electronics like no other generation has done before... The day of meeting at the flag pole and taking care of a simple misunderstanding is gone...

I feel sorry for my kids because they will never be able to make the same mistakes that I made as a kid without the world knowing about it... With a camera on every phone and people with no compassion because they were never taught or because of what they have grown to know as the norm...

As for forums, yep been on my share... There are always going to be people that know and people that think they know.. There are also people that are passionate about the topics being discussed and head hunters (people looking to make a buck)... Sometimes its hard to tell the difference...Don't take this wrong, but I always check the facts of even the people that KNOW... I also feel sorry for the people that join a forum and take the first words of advice they get even it is correct..

My words of advice is it truly takes 2 for confrontation... And fuel usually adds to the fire...If you see something you don't like or misunderstand, let it be... If it was meant as an insult it will get buried fast.. If is was posted out of text, it will usually sort itself out by the original poster..

This should help. I have posted many times about the issue but will let Bob's words stand. Please note the red highlighted part !

Bob Lusk
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker

Registered: 10/04/02
Posts: 2669
Loc: Whitesboro, Texas Welcome to the Pond Boss Forum. This is the place for sharing information about the enjoyment of private ponds in a fun, family like atmosphere.

All posts and discussions should be done as if you were talking to family or friends. Any post that appears to the management to be not in keeping with its standards will be be deleted and the maker banned from the Forum. This includes any post that could be seen as mean spirited or offensive and/or directed toward any individual(s) or any post with dirty words, or containing comments of a sexual, religious, racial or political nature or not deemed to be in "good taste". The use of any personal contact information such as E-mail address(s) or use of Private Messages must follow the same standards.

If you wouldn't say it to your Mother, don't say it to us.
_________________________
No greater gift can a man make than to invest his life in his friends, students and family, building a legacy through them. That gift lasts beyond the ages and has no earthly bounds, it continues to give and build through generations building a better world . A foundation built on investing in others is a life well lived and full. That is the reality of Dave Willis . It is now up to us to make that gift of his life grow by doing as he did-invest in others. Carpe Diem-seize the day! Eric West




Bob Lusk
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker

Registered: 10/04/02
Posts: 2669
Loc: Whitesboro, Texas The Pond Boss website moderators have been hand selected. I have broken bread with each and I know each of them quite well. They are highly qualified.
If your words are moderated, it is because they don't fall within the guidelines rules I have set.
The moderators have my full support and complete discretion to moderate any thread, or to delete it, if they choose.
Support the moderators.
Most of the time, on something that's "grey", they'll discuss it among themselves and make a unified decision. They cover each other's backs.
That's the way I have chosen it to be and I expect each member to respect the moderators.
I expect family-friendly harmony among members and I want each and everyone here to realize this website is about ponds, land, stewardship and helping an extended family.
I appreciate your respect and dedication to keeping this forum on target and inbounds.
Glad you are here.
_________________________
No greater gift can a man make than to invest his life in his friends, students and family, building a legacy through them. That gift lasts beyond the ages and has no earthly bounds, it continues to give and build through generations building a better world . A foundation built on investing in others is a life well lived and full. That is the reality of Dave Willis . It is now up to us to make that gift of his life grow by doing as he did-invest in others. Carpe Diem-seize the day! Eric West

Man I have been around more than a few families that this would not be a good example.

Fortunately not my own........... and I get the intent of the example.

I agree with Snrub - things get pretty rank even downright physical fight status among some families.

Many times things are said between family members that would never be said to strangers.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Bill Cody has asked me to come on the site and make my case so here goes.


I decided to stop participating on the website because I got tired of of JKB personally attacking me, my DIY systems, and even my father whom he's never met. Nothing as far as I could tell was being done about it other than a few warnings. I've complained and it feels like it doesn't matter. One moderator said, "Oh just ignore him." Another said "You like to stir the pot too."

Well I tried the ignore approach and JKB just got more insolent.

The thing is the attacks come right out of the blue and for the life of me I can't figure out what starts them.

What really amazes me is JKB has actually been banned on this site, when he was known as Phil and came back as JKB. At least some of the mods know this, and apparently it's not a big deal. And he's also been banned on the AquaNic website (no longer exists) because of his behavior.


Sure I've posted some threads that got out of hand (For the life of me I can't understand how threads regarding weather ends up with Al Gore and Global Warming or politics), but I have never purposely insulted or trashed anyone here.



I've been called an ***hole in a P.M. by this individual, I've been asked if I'm taking my meds on the forum, I was called a liar in the last thread I posted, my father and American soldiers were trashed by him in a thread when I asked advice on putting up a flag pole for my dad with his Special Forces flag. I wanted to surprise him when he came back from Florida. There was something to the effect that his grandfather rescued his relatives in a POW camp in WWII and our troops pale in comparison. That's impressive JKB but I'll have you know my father raided at least one POW camp in North Vietnam to rescue POW's. If you don't respect the sacrifices our troops have made maybe you should try going back to Poland.

For some reason JKB you take it personal if I don't agree with you. You get all bent out of shape and go in a tirade. I don't know if it's because you're insecure, you're arrogant, or I intimidate you for some reason. I offered to bury that hatchet, as some of the mods know and you agreed. Then you start right back up again.

I just see no point in being here if I have to look forward to being attacked on a regular basis. It's not tolerated on the website where I moderate. And we sure don't welcome banned members and we definitely wouldn't tolerate bad behavior from someone that is technically banned.

Oh and JKB if you're going to try and come off as an expert in recirculating systems maybe you should actually build one or even raise some fish. I'm no expert but at least I have some experience.

Cecil is intelligent, honest, respectful and very kind. I support him to the fullest. I hope you comes back but if don't I thank you for ALL of your help and support for so many of us.
Thank you Bill for inviting CB to explain and thank you Cecil for doing it so well. I remember "Phil" when I first came to this site and thinking what a jerk. Deb King and I discussed him and she said he "likes to aggravate folks". What a shame.
I won't personally insult JKB but might suggest he try to calm down his attitude.

Cecil, and all.

I think it is great that Cecil pushed the envelope. That is one way we all learn. I too push, but not nearly as hard as he does and I love learning from his examples. Everything I have done out at our ponds was because of someone else, and I thank them all. Successes and defeats both teach. Cecil, the sweat on your brow says it all, keep up the hard work.

About all of this, I go back to Mrs Smith, my kindergarten teacher, and she said don't be mean, and share your toys. Cecil shares his trials and experiences, for that I am thankful.

Stirring the pot has its place, but a pond forum probably is not that place. This is one of the best forums I have ever seen, it is like a family, lets keep it that way.

And for all who have served, Thank You.

I'm a relatively new guy on this site so my opinion likely doesn't carry any weight...but from my perspective Cecil has been nothing but polite, informative and fun to talk to/have discussions with. Cecil I hope you don't quit the forum...it would lessen it's benefit and value if you did as far as I'm concerned.

Man I hope you stay but if you don't I understand. I have learned a ton about YP from you and Bill. Fair warning to you sir. If you leave, I will track you down. Because when I catch my first 14" black/yellow perch I want you to do the mount. Your work is spectacular. Good luck and thanks for all the info over the years!

I hope Cecil stays around as well as he has tried to explain to me a few times to help setup a DIY system and I am sure I have asked him the same question more than a few times and he always helps with no complaints.

As of right now I am in the process of trying to put together a late season filter, grow bed or both and could use his help.

I have been off the site for a while so I must have missed most of what caused this.

Lock it down. All's been said that needs to be said.

That was the consensus of the moderators when I posed the question to them a few hours ago.

So, this thread is officially locked.

I have been out building bluegill spawning beds for the last several hours, so I haven't read all that transpired just recently. I do know that some some suggested that what remains may need editing. Some other suggested it should all be erased.

Ken
Moderator

From esshup:
Since this thread is locked, I just wanted to add this to the end of the thread.

Due to some recent problems on the forum, after a lengthy discussion we moderators have initiated a “banned camp”. Campers could be visiting from 1 day to 2 years, or even a permanent ban, depending on the severity of the infraction and the frequency of the members infractions. Just like the Eagles song “Hotel California”, frequent campers will become permanent residents. It takes a majority vote of the moderators for you to be sent to banned camp and also to be permanently banned. Each infraction will be discussed before action is taken, and if a member is sent to banned camp, they will receive an e-mail with the reason why and the length of their camping trip. This does not change any rules and regulations that Bob has outlined in the past. It just gives us Moderators another tool in the toolbox to uphold Bob's rules and regulations without permanently banning someone for stepping out of bounds. Since this is the first time we are trying something like this, amendments to this may be made as needed in the future.

Just to refresh everybody’s memories, here’s what Bob has outlined previously.

Welcome to the Pond Boss Forum. This is the place for sharing information about the enjoyment of private ponds in a fun, family like atmosphere.

All posts and discussions should be done as if you were talking to family or friends. Any post that appears to the management to be not in keeping with its standards will be deleted and the maker banned from the Forum. This includes any post that could be interpreted as mean spirited, offensive and/or directed toward any individual(s) or any post with unacceptable wording, or containing comments of a sexual, religious, racial or political nature or not deemed to be in "good taste". The use of any personal contact information such as E-mail address(s) or use of Private Messages must follow the same standards.

If you wouldn't say it to your Mother, don't say it to us.

The Pond Boss website moderators have been hand selected. I have broken bread with each and I know each of them quite well. They are highly qualified.
If your words are moderated, it is because they don't fall within the guidelines rules I have set.
The moderators have my full support and complete discretion to moderate any thread, or to delete it, if they choose.
Support the moderators.
Most of the time, on something that's "grey", they'll discuss it among themselves and make a unified decision. They cover each other's backs.
That's the way I have chosen it to be and I expect each member to respect the moderators.
I expect family-friendly harmony among members and I want each and everyone here to realize this website is about ponds, land, stewardship and helping an extended family.
I appreciate your respect and dedication to keeping this forum on target and inbounds.
Glad you are here

Bob Lusk