I have a large spring just outside of my pond. It runs about 16" wide year around. It is 15' below the top of the pond. I would like to know what my options are to pump that steady flow of spring water into the pond. Remember it has to be elevated up 15 foot high to reach the pond. I can run the water through the overflow pipe that generally isn't being used. Windmill? Solar? Artesian? I would have to run electricity around 600' to reach the area to run any kind of pump.

TF your gonna have to spend a few bucks on electric cable, but the benefits can be worth it to get adequate spring water.
I'm running power 300ft. down to the stream to power the submersible pump for winter water supply to the pond.
It's a 170 watt pump pushing water 120ft. up 12ft. in elevation to the pond and delivered 12 gpm. If you keep the run as short as possible to reduce friction you should get a decent flow with a 200 to 300 watt submersible pump.
Now you just have to figure how much your willing to spend to get the flow you want.


If you go with a submersible pump get a mag drive pump rated for continuous use, most fountain pumps are that type.

I appreciate the advice on the mag drive pump. I wonder how much money it would cost to run a 600' electric line and hook up a appropriate sized pump. Any thoughts?

You would probably want to use at least AWG 12 wire and that would probably cost min. $300., then a decent fountain pump add another $200.
Maybe some of the electricians on here can give you a better estimate on wire size and cost.

I have a pump like this, it worked great.
http://cgi.ebay.com/4200gph-Submersible-...=item255b2a97b7
Here's another one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cal-Pump-PWM3900-Mag...=item256227dbc9

Your options are this.....if this will be a permanent, then you'll want to bury the power. This means 600+ ft. of trenching, conduit, wire, conduit glue, yada, yada, yada...... May I suggest getting a few construction grade extension cords unless this is going to be a permanent power source? You will also want a GFI outlet, since water is involved.

Wouldn't 600' of construction grade extension cords heat up and be to light? I dont know, I'm just asking. I would be using the pump probably around 4 months a year.

Thanks Adirondack for the pump ideas. I like the second one, the best.

Not if it's 10 gauge. Look for the frog skin color of green. I own quite a few and they are worth every penny I paid for them. You're probably firing up a pump that uses less amps than a hairdryer. It'll be alright! LOL!

I have some extension cords that have twist loc ends, and the outside of the cables are between 5/8" and 3/4" thick. I think running buried 10 ga or even 8 ga. copper would be cheaper than buying 600' of those extension cords.

Well, you'd have to run conduit, buy the wire, trench 600 ft, buy another GFI outdoor outlet, a 4x4 post to mount the outlet on, tie into power somewhere, etc.......Just have to go to Home Depot or Lowe's and do the math. Hand-blading 600 ft. with a sharp-shooter would have me singing Black Spirituals in no time! LOL! Renting a trencher will cost at least $100.

As a compromise you could run extension cords thru 3/4" grey pvc conduit along the ground, at a $1.35 a piece it only costs about $80 bucks in pipe, and either leave it above ground for now or bury it shallow.
If your pump draws less than 300 watts I don't think there would be a problem.

Trenchers $85 here.. 12-3 wire about $275-$300.. Conduit is about $.25 a foot give or take.. 4x4 around $5, GFCI matters how fancy you get $5-$50, glue $5..


There you go, I'm getting ready to trench 500' of line to my aerator..

There ya go. No matter how you look at it, it's gonna cost you a pretty penny. One option will be labor intensive, costly, and take a lot of time, but will be a permanent solution. The other will be costly, too, plus there's the matter of having 600 ft. of extension cord laying on top of the ground and the hassle of rolling it up, moving it out of the way to mow, etc. Since a previous author has given you an estimate for 500 ft., I think you can figure $1 per foot by the time it's all over and done with.

What do you do to be able to pump water from the spring? I have several springs, a few that I think are approaching 10gpm. But there aren't any natural pools I could put a pump into. Do you build a pool? How?

Nathan put a big plastic tub or barrel below your spring and put your submersible pump into that, but make sure your pump doesn't exceed your spring rate, or put a float switch on your pump so it doesn't run dry.

Dig a hole about a foot larger than a 55 gallon drum. Get blue plastic drum drill a bunch of 1/2" holes in it 100's of holes.. Place barrel in hole put 3/4" clean rock all the way around it, there's your sump pit.. They also make similar sump kits at home depot..

I went to Menards today to talk to the fellow in electrical dept about running 600 foot of wire for a pump. He said I needed number 2 gauge wire for a total of 1800.00. Holy crap, 1800.00 plus fees for a divorce lawyer! That is some expensive wire.
He mentioned that a option would be a solar panel to run the pump. Hadnt considered that. Any thoughts?

2 GAUGE WIRE??? did he think you were gonna run an electric blast furnace.
Even if your running 600 ft your only gonna draw 200 to 300 watts, 12 gauge should be fine.
If you go solar plan on about 6 grand with panels ,batteries , and inverter, but call Washington first, they might give you some stimulus money.

How much electricity will the pump draw?

Looks like the pump stats are 180 watt, 110-120V 2.95A 60Hz

TF how long of a pipe would you need to reach from the spring to the pond?

When I go to Ebay, I see 500' of single strand 12 guage wire as low as 30.00. If I buy three of those and put it in conduit to give me my two wire and a ground, will that work?

Is that wire bare or insulated?

I would need roughly 20-25' of pipe to go from spring to pond

With that pump and using 1 1/2 inch flexible pipe you should get about 15 gpm.
That single strand wire should work if insulated and run thru 3/4 inch pvc, but get other opinions on that.

First off that guys an idiot.. As far as single steam wire I'm considering the same thing, because i can get it for free..

I ran 500 ft with solid 12 wire and ran a 1/2 hp submersible well pump with no problems at all. That was 220 though so I was only pulling about 6 amps each leg but still I would think 12 wire would be fine.

You should have used 10/3. Always use 10 gauge on 220 volt applications. Yes, 12 gauge is all he needs for his pump since it uses 120 volts. It probably won't draw much more amperage than a ceiling fan.

I've never ran 10 gauge on any 220. You can run 14 gauge if you want it's all about amp draw and distance.. You shouldn't be pulling much amps so 12 will work 10 is overkill and expensive.. I'm running my 3/4 hp 500' ft away on 12 ga (will be not yet) there's so little amp draw on those to 110 legs that 14 would have worked probaly but I went with 12 to be safe..

I see some 500' insulated 10 and 12 gauge going for 30.00 or so

Guys I am confused with the 110 verses 220 pump. How many single wires would I need to run for each system. I take it the 220 would be less expensive to run.
One more question. If I go with a 110 pump, Can I plug my loong 600' wire into a exterior outlet from the house. I think it is either 14 or 12 gauge wire going to the exterior GFI of the house. thanks

timberframe, I seriously doubt that you can drop the wire size in the line.

BGK, take a close read on this that I dug up on the 'net in regards to wire size, motor load, starting amps and voltage drop over a 500' run.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071229090732AAmelbm

If I was running the wire for myself, I wouldn't run less than 10 ga, and I'd give serious consideration to 8 ga. If you might at some time in the future want to hook up another electrical item to it, you'll be overloading the circuit if going with less than 10 ga.

What's cheaper in the long run, spending the extra now for the increased wire size and bury it once, or find out in 2 years that you really need to bury another wire?

With that said, I'm not an electrician.

Well, I was an electrician in the Navy and I wired my house for electric, emergency generator, telephone, and cable TV. It all passed code. 10 gauge is the minimum required in 220 volt applications, period. As for long runs, buried underground, I'd just have to do my homework, but 12 gauge is definitely out of the equation. Just because it works doesn't mean it's safe.

Well, I damned up the spring and hooked up 2" pipe from the pond to the spring. I hooked up a generator to a 8000 gph pump and started pumping. The pump is overkill and pumps the spring pond dry in about 30 minutes. Can I run the 8000 gph mag pump for hours at a time if it is only getting limited water supply? I didnt know if a mag pump would be OK or not.

TF If it's a submersible pump it needs to be in water or it will burn up, you can get a float switch for it so that it will shut off when water is low.
http://www.westsidewholesale.com/automat...yback-plug.html

Just got back too this.. I'm not saying in all applications you can run 12ga 500' it depends on amp load.. 220 is no cheaper than 110 to operate.. 220 will have less draw on startup (lights won't dim or flicker) you might not be able to run 12ga 500' depending on amp draw from your pump..

PS- Oklahoma must have different code than the rest of the unites states. Because 10ga minimum for 220 is BS. I wiredmy house with my certified electrician cousin and certified electrician coworker and and the only 10 ga int house in running to my mig welder.. 12ga is fine and passes code..

BGK, it's not only the wire size, but it's the length of run that also needs to be figured into the equasion to figure out the correct wire size for the application.

I understand that.. But wire size needed is determined primarily by amp draw.. If your running 220 @ 1amp you could use 16 ga wire but if your running 220@1amp 1000' you might need 14-12.. That is just a hypothetical example don't hold me too any of that.. On my 3/4 220amp gast pump I think it pulls something like 3-4 per leg, which is nothing so I can get away with 12ga for a 500' run..

There is electrical websites that have charts for all this.. Some even said I could run 14ga but I chose 12 just to be safer

All dependent on amp draw

Just out of curiosity and not picking nits. Was the amp daw that you used for your pump the running amp draw or the start-up draw?

That's running amp, also I'm not exactly sure if those are the exact #'s can't remember.. That's why I ran it 220 instead of 110, less amp draw on startup, won't dim lights or flicker lights on start up.. Basically the draw is split in half on 220..

Guys,
The 2008 NEC book say's on branch circuit's 600v or less you are allowed 3 percent voltage drop. That's 3.6 v on 120v system.

Formula for VD = 2K x L x I / cm

K= Resistance in ohms of one circular mil foot of conductor(12.9)
L= Length
I= Amps
cm=circular mils

If we plug in the info. 2x12.9=25.8 L=600 I=2.9 which comes up to 44892 If you divide that buy the circular mil of #10(10380)comes up to 4.32 . Slightly over the 3.6 allowed by code. if we plug in #8(cm 16510) we get 2.7 All that being said I personally I personally would run the #10 (close enough) But keep in mind if that pump ends up being inadequate you dont leave any room for upgrade. In that case use #8. Another option with the price of copper what it is would be to use aluminum.Which fi sized correctly and installed correctly would be fine. Bluegillerkiller is correct 120 or 240 makes no differance in the formula.

Timberframe,
I will add if you went with Aluminun you could use direct burial URD cable.

If your interested let me know and we can calculate a size.

Running extension cords in conduit is generally not a good idea(Maybe for very short distances).Having insulated conductors inside an insulated jacket inside a conduit does not allow for heat dissapation(heat being a big enemy when your talking electricity).That would get into a whole other issue with derating your insulation value.

Have you considered a hydraulic ram pump? If your topography allows this to work you can pump water without electricity. If you are unfamiliar with them, they are a pump that is powered by falling water, Google it.

Well I finally got it done. First I ran 850 foot of 16 or 18 gauge extension cords down to a ice cold spring. I hooked it up to a 3000gph pump. It pumped fine for about a month, so I went ahead and purchased 850' of underground 12/2 wire with ground as a permanent solution. (My neighbors were all glad to get their extension cords back). I think I could easily run another pump off of this setup if needed. Now I am pumping fresh cold spring water into the existing pond. Just one more thing to keep the water cooler.

You should run 3/4; Schedule 40 PVC with 2#8 copper xhhw and 1#12 copper ground. You cannot run any power cable or extension cords in conduit. You need to use individual conductors. It would be cheaper to use #6AL. Not a big fan of aluninum. Your first pump probably burned up from low voltage. You should also put it on a GFI circuit breaker. If you plan to plug it in or use a WP GFI receptacle.R&R is spot on with his voltage drop calculation.