Looking for supplier and suggestion for rate to kill new pond (probably only has tadpoles and water bugs in it). 1/4 acre pond, 6 ft. max depth. Also - how long before it's safe to stock w/shrimp?

Hey Troutgal, why do you want to 'kill' the new pond? Do you suspect something other then tadpoles and bugs are in it? Planning to just grow out shrimp?

Yes, I am just stocking shrimp. Tiny little fellers, too. The kill is a preventive measure, the water bugs here are carnivorous, the tadpoles, not sure there but I'm not taking a chance. They are the right size for almost anything to eat. I can't control the itinerant ducks so I'll control what I can.

It's also the recommendation from Mississippi State University - kill before stocking. I'm sure there's more concern with an established pond, but like I said.... not gonna take chances!!!

BTW - I'm from Alberta myself

Hey Another poster that goes by 'Wood' that you've likely noticed is from Alberta as well.

Tadpoles, specifically bullfrog tadpoles have omnivorous feeding tendancies. They can display VERY carnivorous behavior when not feeding on plant matter. The problem is you really won't have much control over predators of this nature... and birds... or anything non-fish. Any control you have through a kill-off will be temporary at best.

I don't have any experience using rotenone to kill fish but would have to guess that rates for killing off tadpoles and other invertebrates might vary alot from that for killing fish. (Higher dosage for kiling non-fish inhabitants) If you found a supplier or manufacturer website it may list application rates for each purpose.

Growing some edible shrimp?

I know it would be temporary.. but my thought is that hopefully the juveniles would grow fast enough that they would become too large for a tadpole to nail. Maybe not.

Yes, edible - I've been wanting to try this since I got out of college (took aquaculture courses there) but never had the opportunity. Now I do and am excited about what I *might* get out of it. Saw some freshwater shrimp in the freezer section of Walmart the other day, nice looking ones too. Hoping for 16-20 per pound (fat guys) with a 120 day growing season. Also saw a report on studies from the University of Nebraska regarding the use of old hog barn pits for growout tanks (do these shrimp taste funny to you??? ).

At the end there might be either a HUGE shrimp boil or a freezer full of fat ducks :p

Thanks for the thoughts

Pottsy - Are you sure bullfrog tadpoles are carnivorus? Where did you read or learn this?. As far as I know all frog TADPOLES have coiled intestines which indicates they are herbivours. I think they all vegetarians and eat mostly algae consisting of primarily periphyton. However when tadoles convert or metamorphose to air breathing, legs develop, horny jaws and teeth are shed, mouth widens, tail is resorbed and then young frogs hops onto land. During the tranformation the gut structure shortens and feeding habits also change to flesh eating.

PS Rotenone will kill only things with gills, i.e. those that are extracting oxygen from the water, non-airbreathers.

Troutgal, where abouts in Alberta?. Oh, and in case you miss home, I woke up this morning to find the ground white with snow. :rolleyes:

Wood -

I'm from Calgary, talking to mom on the phone - snow mixed with rain, yuck!

Do tadpoles not breathe under water, or do they surface for air?

One website I researched mentioned that rotenone would affect invertebrates and tadpoles, so....????

Bill - I should have said omnivorous... will correct my previous post so as to not be misleading. Learned about bullfrogs initially in school, have since noted their omnivorous behaviour as tadpoles when housing them in tanks and in the pond/natural locations. They appear to try and eat anything that fits in their mouth be that plant or insect or otherwise. I believe they are primarily herbivores but in the case of Troutgals 'tiny' shrimp I would doubt they'd make the distinction.

Here is a good fact sheet on Bullfrogs:
Bulfrogs

Rotenone - Kills more then just fish, fish are very susceptible to it because of the way they take in oxygen and the fact they cannot escape it, but it is toxic to more then just those creatures with gills. Of course it's level of toxicity is based entirely on the concentration to which an organism is exposed and in general the amounts used to kill fish are insufficient to kill other organisms. Rotenone inhibits the ability to absorb oxygen at the cellular level, (Cellular Respiration). Rotenone has long been used as an insecticide, (My experince with it is not fish related. My grandfather used to spray it on Apple/Pear trees and to kill tent-caterpillars.... left a powdery residue on everything I recall)

See the following fact-sheet:
Rotenone Pesticide News

You two do know you probably need a pesticide applicators license to purchase rotenone correct?

I am a certified commercial applicator in the state of KS but can't get it from my local supplier anymore

Hey Cecil, I am not in need of the Rotenone at this time... though if I purchased it, it'd be for garden use. BTW I can buy it at almost any farm supply or garden center here in Canada where it's primary use is for pest control.

Quite a few on-line businesses in Canada sell it but importing it into the US of A if there is restrictions?? Not sure if that is easy or not.

] Nu-Gro Corporation
Later Chemicals

Safer Ltd 416-291-8150

Here are some suppliers listed in my Aquaculture Buyer's Guide:

Aquacenter Inc. MS 662-378-2861/800-748-8921

Aquatic Control Inc. IN 812-497-2410

Boatcycle Company TX 430-657-3791

Ken's Hatchery and Fish Farm GA 229-532-6135

Prentiss Incorporated NY 516-326-1919

Tita Limited NJ 908-647-4570

Cecil

Thanks. I think I've run out of time, pond temp is now 68 F and I can stock at 72. As I understand I would need about 2 weeks for the rotenone to decay, might be stocking in that time. Better not.

However, I will take those companies into consideration for the next time. We'll see how this goes!

Thanks to everyone for the help!

You may not want to chance it but here is my experience. I applied rotenone in my small pond in spring. I'm sorry I didn't check water temps but I think it was in April and in about four days I checked the water with fatheads in a cage. They lived through the night so I stocked my pond with fatheads and a few days later catfish. The ootenone broke down fast and the hotter the faster (Texas can be pretty hot already in April).

Hey Brian

Well, I *think* I read that the hotter it is the faster it breaks down. Thanks for your experience, I'll ponder it a bit more but I'm thinking I might not chance it... maybe next year when the pond has had a year to collect critters!

troutgal, Southern Illinois University has a aquaculture co-op that has been growing out shrimp successfully and would have some info. They have a small niche market, but are expanding every year. I think that they have small festivals where the shrimp are netted and eaten on the same day.
Robert B