Below are the temp./depth readings taken from 2 ponds in cent. Miss. on 8-21-05 after a normal summer including 14 days +- of over 95/100 temp/heat index. Pond 1 = 6.5 acres, pond 2 = 16 acres. Both are fertilized to an appx. 18in. visibility and both are spring fed (near surface in min. amt.)just about enough to offset evaporation. Sorry no DO readings but am looking into that-- anyway that would spoil the fun of the test. Temp. readings are averages at depth. No aeration . Underwater camera gives temps. and reveals on IR lights much floating/suspended matter at all depths. These ponds avg. 6-8 degrees cooler than others in area unknown speculation as to why.

Pond 1
sur 85
1ft 85.5
2ft 84.5
3ft 83
4ft 83
5ft 82.5
6ft 82
7ft 80.5
8ft 79.5
9ft 77
10ft 73
11ft 70
12ft 68.5
13ft 66
14ft 64.5
15ft 62
16ft 60.5
17ft 59.5
17.5 59 bottom

Pond 2
sur 83
1ft 83
2ft 83
3ft 83
4ft 81.5
5ft nr
6ft 81.6
7ft nr
8ft 77
9ft 74.5
10ft 71.75
11ft 70
12ft 68.5
13ft 64.4
14ft 64.2
15ft 63
16ft nr
17ft 61
18ft nr
19ft 57

Sonar revealed fish at all depths down to 13 ft. but most were on cover in open water 3-8ft.I would like any comments or thoughts on what you think including where you think the thermocline is if there is one. ewest

Looks to me like there is a definite thermocline between 8-10 feet in both lakes.

Bruce :

Got the PMs and have responded. Thanks.ewest

Jersey :

I think so to. But I can't account for a number of fish sonar showed below 10ft. Also there is a 6-7 degree drop over 3ft and that does not sound like a lot in view the drop over the rest of the readings. I just don't know what the DO levels are in that zone. Will be interesting to hear what others think. Thanks. ewest

Is there any aeration in those ponds? I would like to know how that would impact the numbers. In theory there should be little or no thermocline.

Thermocline in both ponds starting at about 8 feet....my understanding has been that fish will move in and out of the "upper" thermocline area which might explain the sonar readings. If they are on cover moving in and out of the thermocline to 13 feet would certainly be plausible. I was surprised at the minimum readings of 59 and 57 degrees, respectively....should hook up a pump and air condition with that water.

ML :

These 2 ponds are 6-8 degrees colder in summer than any lakes in the area. Small springs in shallow water at end of coves adds some cool water but only offset evaporation. We think but are not sure that in building the ponds 30-50 years ago some deep springs were cut and now add cold water at depths below 15 feet. If you dive off the floating platform and go to 12-15 ft deep you get a shock -- hitting 60 degree water when the air temp is 95 will give you a headache. ewest

Temperatures throughout the water column seem to be affected by the inflow from springs. These are not typical midsummer temperature profiles. Acceptable DO readings probably occur to depths where you are marking or seeing fish.

Bill :

Thanks for your reply. These 2 ponds have confounded me with their water temps. relative to others in the area. That is why I took the readings and made the post. I started another post on DO meter and am moving in that direction. No rush but soon I will start taking DO readings along with depth and temps. Would like to have a one year base line on these ponds to work from. These 2 ponds have never had a fish kill no matter the weather or feritility rate ( visibility or lack of). The fish are active even when fish in near by ponds are sluggish due to heat and I assume low o2. I catch BG/RE and LMB at 12 ft around brush piles all summer and the IR on the underwater camera showes suspended matter through out water colm. top to bottom. If you have any thoughts or suggestions I would sure like to hear them. ewest

Update on water temps in pond 2 as of 11-6-05.

sur. 65
1ft. 63
2ft. 62
3ft. 60
4ft. 59
5ft. 57
6ft. 57
7ft. 57
8ft. 57
10ft. 57
12ft. 56
14ft. 56
16ft. 56
btm
(17-19) 56

Fish marked on sonar to 13ft. to surface. Air temps. for last 2 weeks 40+- night to 75 day ( 85 high on one day). Visa. 4 ft.

Update on pond 2 as of 12-26-05, 11am sunny visa. -- 42in.

sur. 46
1ft. 45
2ft. 44/45
3ft. 44
4ft. 43/44
5ft. 43/44
6ft. 43/44
7ft. 43
8ft. 43/44
9ft. 43/44
10ft. 43/44
11ft. 43/44
12ft. 42/43
13ft. 42/43
14ft. 42/43
15ft. 42/43
16ft. 42/43
17ft. 42/43
18ft. 42 btm.

A very interesting observation was that from 8ft. through to the bottom the IR camera picked up small moving/swimming objects that reflected light/glowed but were not visible without IR. Size was about the size of a flea/head of a pin. Have not seen that before. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Eric:

Is your water clearer now that it's cooled down? I'm wondering if the (zooplankton) you saw with the IR was present, but not observable, when it was warmer (easier to see peas in thin soup than in stew), or if it's a Winter species that was not there before. I remember Bill Cody talking about how phytoplankton & algae differ Winter vs. Summer; I suspect zooplankton changes with the seasons also.

Your Mississippi Xmas temp profile (almost) makes me feel warm up here - my ponds' only 10 degrees cooler even with the ice!

Eric; the small moving objects were zooplankton; probably larger forms suchas Daphnia or Diaptomus.

Bill :

Thanks . I was replying to Theo when you posted.
One of these days I am going to set up the camera so I can take pics. from it as has that feature.


Theo :

Our water is clearer now than last summer but not than 11-05 when last I took water temps. Absent fert. program our water looks like bottled water from the store. At depths below light penetration it is always clear unless a huge rain event. Our temps. are 6+- degrees colder than others in the area during warm mths. During other temp. surveys there is suspended ( I assume plankton type) matter but never has it been fluorescent. My wag is that it is some kind of winter zoo/phyto plankton.

Eric - Next time you locate a concentration of these IR visible zooplankters, try and collect some and I will take a look at them to see what they are specifically. Prepare yourself a weighted jar/bottle with some sort of stopper w/ string attached. Lower the jar with a cord to the proper depth, pull stopper out with a string and when jar is full of water pull it to the surface. As bottle fills with water in the midst of a patch of zooplankton, adequate numbers of zooplankton will enter bottle with the water. Contact me and I will tell you how to preserve them for shipment.

Bill :

I will do that and let you know. I may do it next weekend if I get the chance. Thanks for the offer and the info.

Excellent data collection. Wish you were a little further north. Then we could watch the inversion that occurs when 39 degree water sinks I'm still game to send you the electronic DO meter if you want to take some oxygen readings.

Bruce :

Thanks for the offer but I have one located and will use it soon. It took a while to find what I wanted. We do get 39 degree water and it sinks just not enough to keep it that cold as we then get 50-60 degree days which warm it up. With the back and forth temps. and wind effects we get lots of mixing. While I have not measured the temps. in Jan. yet (I will this winter)I suspect that temps will be around 39-40 at all depths with swings at the surface based on current weather. The ponds have been covered with ice up to 1.5 inches before.

Update on water temps. pond 2 , 3-4-06 :

sur. 60
1ft. 59-60
2ft. 57-58
3ft. 54-55
4ft. 54
5ft. 53-54
6ft. 52
7ft. 51
8ft. 50-51
9ft. 50
10ft. 49
11ft. 49
12ft 49
13ft 48
14ft 48
15ft 48
16ft 48
17ft 48
btm 48

A few LMB yoy fry were seen and some yoy BG fry not many. Also some BG and RE were around the beds and some clean spots on the bottom were observed. The small IR visible plankton were not there. Next time I see them I will get a sample.

ewest - Does it have aeration yet? It looks like it will stratify at around 6-7ft. What kind of wind exposure does pond 2 (16 ac) have?

Bill :

Both ponds have good wind exposure for the south. They will have small waves on most days (visible water movement by wind ). I am about to start DO profiles for these ponds out of curiosity. Our water stays around 6 degrees colder than other area ponds during the summer and we have never had any events that would indicate a DO problem. Even when other area lakes have had fish kills from low DO our ponds have stayed active. I continue to mark fish by sonar as deep as 12-14 ft. of water in the dead of summer with temps at those depths of 65-68. No aeration planned .

Update 3-25-06 .

First from 2 weeks ago (3-11) partial #s. We have had an unusual spring - hot in Jan. ,cold in Feb. then hot in early March. The ponds are full + but we have not had huge rains to muddy the water and make it cold. Surface water temps. are 70 , but at 3 ft. the temps. are 65 and at 5 ft. 58. These temps are up 10 degrees at the surface and up 11 degrees at 3 ft and up 5 degrees at 5 ft. from eight days ago. Talk about rapid heating ! Our friend "Ray" ( as named by Bruce) and all his energy have been in full swing.

Then came the storms that swamped Dallas (3-15 to 20). We had a full week of cloudy & cool with rain weather followed by 50 degree days and 30 degree nights (3-20 to 25).

The result water temps. dropped significantly above 6 ft.- surface down 15 degrees (70-55) - 3 ft. down 11 degrees (65-54) - 5 ft. down 5 degrees (58-53). All visible spawning activity stopped and fish have moved from shallow to deep water. It appears at least some of the yoy fry have survived and some small fish 1-3 in are still shallow. Here are the numbers.

Sur. 55
1ft 55
2ft 54
3ft 54
4ft 54
5ft 53-4
6ft 53-4
7ft 53-4
8ft 53-4
9ft 53-4
10ft 53
11ft 52-3
12ft 51-2
13ft 50-1
14ft 50
15ft 50
16ft 49-50
17ft 49-50
18ft 49
btm 49

Eric

In GA I had the same pattern of hot in Jan. ,cold in Feb. then hot in early March.
My low today (3/25/2006) was 32.7 degrees. Two weeks ago I was catching fems full of eggs. The temps have me (and the fish) confused. Predictions are back to 70+ by Thursday. Strange...
Frank

Update as of 4-23-06 on pond 2 (16a). This has turned into a year long temp. survey :

Sur 77
1ft 76
2ft 75
3ft 74
4ft 73
5ft 72-73
6ft 71-72
7ft 69-70
8ft 67
9ft 64
10ft 62-63
11ft 61
12ft 57-58
13ft 56-57
14ft 56-57
15ft 55
16ft 54
17ft 54-55
18ft 54
btm 53-54

You would know that when I left the sample bottle at home the IR plankton were back at about 14 ft to 16 ft. Bill I will get a sample. A big warm up since a mth ago 3-25-06. Visa has dropped from 48in. + last week to 34in. today.

Update 6-4-06 on pond 2 (16A) visa. 20 inches (green/brown plankton bloom since May 1 ). Lake full and recently stopped losing water via overflow pipe from 6 ft below surface.

sur 80
1ft 79
2ft 79
3ft 78
4ft 77
5ft 77
6ft 77
7ft 76
8ft 75
9ft 70
10ft 67
11ft 65
12ft 62
13ft 60
14ft 59
15ft 57
16ft 55
17ft 54
18ft 54
btm 54

Update on 7-4-06 on pond 2 (16A) visa 24 inches and brown down from 14 inches and green. Water down 4 inches from full in last mth. Cloudy yesterday afternoon and today no rain in last 10 days.

sur 80
1ft 80
2ft 79/80
3ft 79
4ft 79
5ft 79
6ft 79
7ft 78/79
8ft 77/76
9ft 74
10ft 70
11ft 67
12ft 64
13ft 63/64
14ft 61/62
15ft 60
16ft 58/59
17ft 57
18ft 56
btm. 55/56

Update on 8-5-06 on pond 2 (16A) visa 18 inches and green down from 24 inches and green. Water down 8 inches from full in june. No major rain in last 15 days.

sur 83
1ft 83/4
2ft 83
3ft 83
4ft 82/3
5ft 82
6ft 81
7ft 78/9
8ft 77/6
9ft 75/4
10ft 72/1
11ft 70/69
12ft 67/6
13ft 66
14ft 64/3
15ft 62
16ft 60
17ft 57
btm 56

8-6-06 update on pond 1 (6 acres) visa. 20 in.

sur 82
1ft 82
2ft 81/2
3ft 81/2
4ft 81/2
5ft 81/2
6ft 81/2
7ft 80/1
8ft 80/79
9ft 77
10ft 77/6
11ft 74/3
12ft 70/69
13ft 67
14ft 65
15ft 62/3
16ft 62
17ft 60
18ft 59
btm 58

ewest, what time of day were these temps taken? That is pretty cool, but with that size pond there is good wave action. I'm pretty sure you had a rain event yesterday. Is this an oxbow or dammed?

These are the dammed ponds not the oxbows. Got a little rain last night maybe .25 . After the first pond temps but before the second. It was 100 F yesterday and 95 when I took the first temps above and 90 F on the second. Both of these are spring influenced and stay about 6-8 degrees cooler (depending on depth) in the summer than others in the area. Temps were taken on the first pond (#2) at 11:30 am and on the second (#1) the next day at 10:30 am.

Update on 9- 17-06 on pond 2 (16A) visa 32 inches and brown tint down from 24 inches and green on Aug 8. Water down 6 inches from full in June.

Sur 75
1ft 74/5
2ft 74
3ft 74
4ft 74
5ft 74
6ft 74/3
7ft 73/4
8ft 73/4
9ft 73/4
10ft 73/2
11ft 71/70
12ft 70/71
13ft 70/69
14ft 67
15ft 67/6
16ft 65
17ft 63/4
18ft 62
btm 62 and 60 2locations

ewest - I am guessing your oxygen is gone at around 11 to 12 ft deep. Smaller ponds do not have thermoclines that deep.

Spring influnce. They are putting out water and O2 at depth. This is the warmest it gets at depth. Usually btm temps are cooler (50-55) most of the year. While shallow temps are down bottom ones are at the years warmest.

Temp update as of 10-29-06 in 16a pond. Had 2 big rains in last 2 weeks. Water flowing out via control pipe from 6 ft below surface. Visa about 12 in. and clearing.


Sur 61-62
1ft 61
2ft 60
3ft 59
4ft 59
5ft 58-59
6ft 58-59
7ft 58-59
8ft 58-59
9ft 58
10ft 58
11ft 58
12ft 58
13ft 58
14ft 58
15ft 58
16ft 58
17ft 58
18ft 58
19ft 58
Btm 57

ewest the pond has turned over and the entire water column will very likely be naturally mixing especially during windy days until next summer. Do you usually get ice cover during winter?

Temp update as of 11-12-06 in big pond. One or 2 small rains since last report. Water clearing visa. 30in. still losing water out of overflow pipe.

surface temp is 54
all other depths 1-18' btm. 54/55

Temp. update as of 2-10-07 in big pond. Probably as cold as it gets after several rains and cold fronts. Water clear visa. 4-5 ft. Fish at all depths down to 15 ft. Many on the brush piles in deep water.

Sur - 47
1ft - 47/46
2ft - 46/45
3ft - 45
4ft - 45
5ft - 45
6ft - 45/4
7ft - 44/45
8ft - 44/45
9ft - 44/45
10ft - 44
11ft - 44
12ft - 44
13ft - 44
14ft - 43/44
15ft - 43
16ft - 43
17ft - 43
18ft - 43
btm - 43

Looks like TShad can survive winter in this pond.