I need some suggestions about taking care of business with the blue herons and water turkeys as we call them in South Arkansas. I hate to kill the wildlife, but I will not let them distory my catfish pond. Any suggestions!! I have use decoys, tape, noise makers nothing seems to work. It's everyday problem. I need some help please!!!!

How about training a dog? I saw an ad in one of my aquaculture magazines that has a place in south somewhere that trained border collies to run off birds for fish farms. I would think a lab would be even better for geese as a lab will get into the water.

My collie/shepard mix takes great delight in running them off. It didn't take much training she is terretorial already and anthing as big as a heron catches her eye. If she does not see it first all I have to do is say "BIRD!" and she goes nuts.

After awhile they stop coming for the most part because of the dog, but one may stray in every two weeks are so, but they are no more than landed when they are run off.

Another alternative is to run fishing line from stakes parallel to the bank over the water where they would wade. They don't like bumping into it. I even saw a study where they used electrical fence like they use with cattle. They said it was quite a sight when the bird made contact with the wire!

I do know the owl decoys do not work, but supposidly the alligator ones do if you are in alligator country. I have my doubts. I have also heard that Purple Martins will run them off if you put up houses, but don't know if that is true either.

I spoke too soon. Even though my dog runs them off continuously for some reason lately they have kept coming. I had a 14 inch bass float up the other day with a hole in his side.

I may have actually put the stakes in with the fishing line as I suggested.

They make propane cannons that go off periodicaly, they are used to protect crops from birds. My uncle uses one in his 4.5 acres of grapes and it does a good job at keeping the birds out, I don't think it works on Racoons. Have your tried noise makers? or a radio? Also state governments are stepping in in some places to control cormrants, maybe they could help?
Don't shoot cormrants yourself, big time fines.

I know about the propane cannons but don't think the neighbors would appreciate the noise. I have a policeman behind me and he sleeps during the day and works at night.

I hear bottle rockets are fun to shoot at them though!It would be a real hoot to watch one walk into an electric fence. It probably would look like some new dance

Like I said I spoke too soon. I have one of the herons landing on my pier right where I feed my fish after I leave. We run him off but he comes right back. Unfortunately I can't be here all the time, and the thought of it spearing my big bass and leaving them to lay does not sit too well.

I just noticed him on the pier, and wonder how long he's been doing that. He did spear a fish before the dog and I could get out there that knocked him for a loop so it must have been one of my big ones.

I'm ordering a "Scarecrow motion activated sprinkler" first thing on Monday and setting it on the pier. Fortunately I don't have much shallow water, so I may able to solve the wading aspect by filling in with stone. If not, I will set up an electic fence about a foot off the water on the edge of the pond all the way around. I can't have my big bass mutilated that I ultimately want sell!

Cecil,
I solved a similar problem with a neighborhood dog strewing trash from my garbage cans by setting them on a 110V wire & then on a rubber pad (I used an old inflatable raft). The dog only came after dark so I didn't plug it in till then. All we heard was a yelp & his toenails clicking up the drive. He didn't come back but continued ravaging the rest of the neighborhood.

Since you know where the bird is landing if you put down a pad with wire mesh on top when the bird sticks his bill in the water he will learn quickly not to do that again!

I live in Cincinnati ohio and have had a major problem with herons too. This year I have two candian gees that I believe are nesting. They have been at my lake for about a month and during this time I have not seen one heron. I kid you not, this morning I was leaving for work and noticed two blue herons flying over my lake, you can't miss those 747's I might add, anyhow I noticed two candian gees giving chase right behind doing their normal honking. That gave me a good chuckle. I normnaly hate candian gees do to their left over's but if they keep those herons away I will start accepting them with open arms. I have been told by others who are more knowledgeably than me with lakes and pests and he told me candian gees are very territorial and run any other dunk,gees or heron off if they are nesting. Once the gees leave I will have to resort to my 22 with a nice scope, I really hate to hurt any animal but in this case I have tried all other options and have not had any success. One thing I want to add before I let you go, this past year I went to the travel sport and boat show and spoke with an ohio game warden (DNR) and explained my propblem. He advised me in the state of ohio the blue heron is an endangered species and I could not shot one. He also added the consequences were not pretty if caught. Just a little food for thought.

Lance, The consequences of not shooting that damn heron ain't pretty either. Herons and water turkeys have a 100% chance of converting your fish to bird feed. The Game Warden seems to me to be a lesser risk.

game warden = thousands of dollars in fines, and the possible siezing of weapons, and forofeitture of hunting and fishing privledges. These aren't the same fines as fishing with out a license, this is a federaly protected endangered migratory waterfowl. Approach with caution.

correction it is not endangered nor even a threatened species although it is a protected migratory species.

TYW33, I guess thats why we have horse races to solve differences of opinion. I'd shoot the damned things.

Now as Paul Harvey says, "The rest of the story". Herons and water turkeys are extremely wary animals. Taking care of business on them can require the same skill and commitment as bow hunting for deer. Just saying I'd shoot them means I'd try to shoot them; maybe not successfully. Yes, If I got caught, there would be a penalty.

I'm not going to shoot them myself. With a policeman behind me and a highway in front -well...

I'll let you guys know how the motion detecting sprayer works. I have also realized I may have brought part of this on myself. You see I raised the water level up to as high as it will go last fall which flooded what little shallow bank I have. I'm dropping the water level back down and if it goes as plans there will be no shallow water for them to wade in -- just a quick drop off. I'll keep you posted.

Sorry for my mistake, I was drawing on Lance's comment that they were endangered in Ohio. This could vary from state to state. I know there seem to be enough of them here.

water turkeys really dont like rap music. so put out a Radio and tune it to a Rap station. 12-gauge also tells them not to come back.

Zach,

I don't think anything with a brain likes Rap "Music." Did you know the words Rap and Music together is an Oxy Moron?

Amen!

i have also heard that the herons are protected or whatever...either way i heard you can get fined etc... if , IF , you get caught. now, just in case there is a federal agent looking at this web site, i have not, and will not shoot a heron or a protected bird!!

now, a shotgun or rifle kills things...i.e. NON fineable birds...but it also draws a lot of attention..which would tend to draw the attention of folks if you shoot say... a NON fineable bird.

Just a side note here...i bought a 99 dollar 1000 feet per second (note: that is a heck of a lot) Daisy pellet gun with a scope (can be found at wal-mart) that is very accurate, very powerful, and a whole lot quieter than any firearm such as a 22 etc... especially when shot out of a window of a vehicle or a house, which, i would NEVER do of course. of interesting note too...since i bought it...haven't seen many bothersome birds, especially the NON fineable ones!!! don't know where they went, haven't a clue.

some say that when brush is cleared and burned, NON fineable birds that have been shot are placed in the fire, there are hardly any remains of the NON fineable birds.

Now, this is just heresay, grapevine talk; i know nothing of this sort of stuff, not a clue. mark

I have now used the "scarecrow" motion detected water sprayer and it does work.

I used it this summer on my pier although I must say it got me more times then the birds.

However it has to be constantly hooked up to a garden hose with the water turned on and has a limited range and degree of motion detection. I also had a lot of false blasts from wind and wave action and sometimes even semi's barreling down the highway accross from the pond. This really wore down the 9 volt battery in a hurry although I was able to counter that somewhat by reducing th sensitivity setting.

I will be putting up an electrical fence this spring and will have a local Amishman weld me up some "T" stakes to run the wire on. I came across how to due this either on the net or one of my AFS fish culture editions and will share it with someone if they are interested if I find it again.

No only is my impetus to prevent maiming of my larger bass by the herons but I also had a parasite problem this summer that reduced the price of my bass for sale. It was the "yellow grub" parasite and I will be doing everything I can to break the cycle of which the heron and snails are part of. I hope to add redears or pumpkinseeds this spring to reduce the snails too.

only two ways get rid of them , get a dog that likes chase stuff (including damn geese lol) or shoot it. p.s. a 22 short put in by itself makes very little noise.

I have heard of some pond owners using a well sighted-in .223 to frighten off comorants and blue heron by placing the round very close to the birds. On the rare occasions when they failed to miss, they noticed that the bird becomes rapidly and profoundly tranquilized. Prepared to report themselves to the proper authorities, but having faith in the powers of recovery in nature, they placed the resting bird in a secluded spot and, returning to the spot the next day, found that in every instance the bird had recovered and flown off. They repeat the process whenever they find a bird turning fish into fertilizer or, in the case of the blue heron, infecting all the fish in the pond with parasites as well. Should you decide to follow a like course of action, be prepared to report yourself and pay the fine if the birds you sedate fail to recover. Not being very accurate with a rifle, I have never attempted this solution myself.

The above post is incredibly absurd, yet no comment from anyone points that out. Why would that be; why add insult to idiocy?

Dudley,

I found it hilarious and clever. Maybe it's just hard to follow an act like that?

Dudley, It has been said that I am so full of BS that I could fertilize 100 acres of cotton just by looking at it. Hang in there; you show potential.

i liked it dudley, but we just couldn't top it!! keep up the humor, makes this site fun AND informative. mark

Whew! What a relief! I was beginning to believe that I was the only cretin in this institution. I am restored and feel whole again!

Cecil, did I understand your post from back in May on this topic that the heron was actually spearing your bigger fish? Like impaling them?

I just want to make sure I understand what the herons are capable of as I have a few at my lake. I've seen them in the shallows feeding on minnows and small fry. How big a fish could a 5-6' wing span heron eat? To date, I haven't minded their presence, in fact, I thought they were cool to watch.

Thanks.
Sunil

I've been told they can swallow bass up to about 2 lbs. Haven't seen it but there is a lot of stretch to that throat. I know for a fact they will impale any size bass. If it moves their natural instinct is to impale it. I have seen scars and fresh wounds on some of my larger bass.

I WILL be putting up an electric fence to keep the SOBs off my warmwater pond. Not only to they lower the value of my bass by mauling them they also add parasites that lower their value too.

I have seen a heron catch and swallow a carp that had to be at least 1.5 pounds. It had a little trouble but it looked like it could have gone a little bigger.

That's great info. Thanks.

Tony,
I know that in Texas and Louisiana we have special regulations on "water turkey" the double crested cormorant, you can't shoot the anahinga (not sure if that spelling is 100%. First contact your local state wildlife agency and get the regulation befor you go to blasting water turkey. Then if its OK the liberal shotgun method works best down here (any friend with a shotgun around your pond shooting water turkey) The increased commotion will help, but not eliminate the Heron problem. They are protected everywhere. I never have a problem finding someone to drop by to take a few practice shots. The water turkey are much more of a threat to your fish than are the Heron anyway. Happy Hunting!!! (if its legal)

Blue herons are extremely territorial. If you shoot one another will come and take it's place. You would probably have to shoot 50 or 100 to solve your problem, but only temporarily. There are many things you can do to drive them away short term. They will return. The problem is they are smart and eventually find ways to avoid your latest trick or learn that there is no real danger to them. They love automatic feeders. If you feed your fish in deep water it will help. If you stay until the feed has been eaten it will help. There are no effective permanent solutions. Take it from someone who has raised fish commercially and I currently have 9 fishing ponds. I have tried all the tricks and then some to no avail.

I've heard that those who have permanently discouraged one from attacking their fish have had others take their place. It seems they are worse in ponds with shallow water around the banks. Does having a very quick drop to three feet help much?

I could see where other birds could take their place as they are territorial. Steep banks definitely help. My trout pond is so steep they won't even consider it. It also has #4L stones on the banks which I do not believe they care to wade on either. However it is very close to the house so that may have something to do with it.

The warmwater pond is not so lucky although the banks are fairly steep also. However I will be fixing that this spring. Can't wait to see my first heron walk into a hot wire. Yee Haw! I've heard it looks something like break dancing.

The steeper the bank the better. I would suggest 4-6 feet.

Herons are federal protected migratory birds, but
you may have to just shoot them. I've seen them pull 15 inch catfish out of my ponds. And, for
every snatched fish that I've witnessed, the Herons have probably pulled another ten out.
I've avoided shooting them because the birds are only doing what comes natural for them. And, there are not easily discouraged. They will come in and start fishing with me right there on a running tractor. I tried the decoy suggestion,
but that only attracted them.

Wow Swampstalker!

40 or 50 herons. At least we don't have that many in my area.

Judging from the numbers I have seen locally they are not endangered but if they try to catch more fish than I do when I get my pond finished they will definitly be threatened! On the huge impoundments of the yadkin river drainage here in NC I have seen literally one every 50 - 100 yrds. around the bank!

Cecil help:

I was actually looking to start a new topic on the possibility of using the electric fence or the motion sprinklers to deter the herons.But this seems to be right on track with this discussion. I noticed someone said they tried everything and nothing lasts forever. How would an electric fence fail to deter herons? It is my understanding that they do not land and take off in the water (like geese). This should work great. Geese and herons need to walk into the water and out regularly. I ran into a fish farmer in northern Wisconsin that said he had at least 20 Herons die of lead poisoning last year and they just keep coming. Seems like they are not that rare. I have gone so far as to chase them with the dog and my 4 wheeler. We do a lot of shooting on the property and this does not deter them. I actually had a lot of good results from the decoy as long as I keep moving it. It just reduces the problem though until you get a smart one. I can say for certain there was more than one on the pond last summer. I have had them start to land and pull up thinking another heron was already there. At this point I am thinking the fence is the way to go. I completely lost my bass to winterkill last winter and the bluegill all went to the Herons. I am sick of finding dead floating fish with holes in them. I really wouldn't mind if they would eat what they kill but they don't get them and then they keep trying. I want to restock but want to protect my babies. I am hoping Cecil will jump in and help. I really appreciated the help last spring when I lost my fish to keeping the aerator deep all winter. I would appreciate all ideas and comments.

I forgot to add on water turkeys......... I had a couple last summer that are so smart that they just flew right into the side of my building.

On another ocasion I chased around the pond on the 4-wheeler to run them off and they tend to just fly to the other end. I finally got them to leave and haven't seem them since.

Brian,

I may or may not put in the electric fence this spring. It depends on my budget and since I don't even have enough money saved to put in my two ponds at the moment, and the expensive of all the fish I want to purchase, It may not happen.

My alternative that worked well for me last year except on the pier, was to drive posts around the pond in the shallow water up to water too deep for the heron to wade and string them with monofiliment fishing line. I would run the line above the water enough so they cannot step over it, and run at least three strands about a foot apart. The posts were simply wooden stakes with screws to wrap the line around driven in (the screws) with a screw gun.

However an electric fence should work just fine and would be fairly simple to install. The only problem I would have would be grass contacting it, but I have heard of somehow making it so when the grass makes contact it burns off or something.

I have an article somewhere on installing electric fences, but it may take awhile to find it. You should be able to find something on the net if you do a word search for electric fence on ponds or something. I found one site that sold them for koi ponds.

Should herons and cormorants be lumped into the same category? I think that many people consider cormorants to be a problem. From what I've read, herons aren't nearly as destructive as the cormorants. We have always had one heron but never more. I've never seen any dead fish along the bank.

Also, I heard that cormorants might be listed as waterfowl so they could be hunted. Has anyone else any information about this?

I think this topic is a wee bit too PC (politically correct). The folks that pass the laws would never say kill anything. Therefore those of us that have common sense know the Heron are no problem and the cormorants should be killed. If you listen to those that make the laws you will be in limbo forever. Shoot the water turkeys and quit worrying about the idiots.

the fish the heron eats is fine , its the stuff he brings with him that makes me mad . duckweed, watermeal and what ever else.

Cecil

I would appreciate the article on fencing if you can find it.

As for the idea of herons not doing any damage, I really don't think that they eat that much, but I am sick of finding fish floating with holes in them. I am willing to let a predator eat, but they kill a ton of fish and just keep trying.

I forgot to ask where is a good place to buy the motion sensitive sprinklers. This would be very helpful.

I'm with the water turkeys on this one....I hate rap too.

FYI- I'm 25 miles from a major heron rookery on the Mississippi River. Herons up the wazu-dogs hate em' and chase em. Ok so far-but i'm a Veterinarian. Had a colleague handling one a number of years back, why I don't know. Anyhow he picked him up-the heron proceeded to pluck one of his eyballs out like he was picking grapes. Very messy and undoubedly very painful. However you get rid of them be careful handling them if alive-esp kids. Thanks-Postbeetle

Postbeetle: Just one good look at that spear like beak combined with the knowledge that they use it for a living, and it is obvious Heron's can be dangerous. I've heard of people who were injured (seems like it was usually their eye too) trying to release them from a foothold trap they had stepped into. I have no plans to get that close to a live one! Jeff

Zach - if you keep putting out the Rap Music - Your neighbors may be ready to use the 12 ga on you.

I didn't read all of the replies, but Dan Suttle of Suttle Fish Farm in Mississippi told me he combats the problem with pond dye and said he has had great results from birds that would destroy his hatchery. He sold me a gallon for about $35. It only takes a very small amount (ounces) to do my half acre pond. Turns it a pretty blue and makes it harder for the birds to see the fish.

They are pretty smart birds I have found out 1 that the police do not care so dont worry about the one behind you the game warden is the only one who may do something IF he finds out. Dispose of it and dont tell anyone pretty simple, I believe you have the write to protect your property just as if it were a bear trying to get into your house. If you dont want to take that action just shoot at it but dont hit it, I have found after a few times they figure out they are not wanted and dont come back. I have tried everything from dog to kids to wife chasing them when I am not there they just keep coming back. Rap a couple shots off on its direnction 2 to 3 times and it will get the picture.

Does anyone now how to test your water for quality and bacteria and things. Is there somewhere you can take it or send it out for a check?

bc,

I assume you were talking about herons and not water turkeys. If so, I agree they can be harmlessly harrassed away. Water turkeys...no way. I have had the same bird return every 15 to 30 minutes all day long trying to get at my fish. Guess I can't absolutely prove its the same bird, but it sure looked like the same bird. They continuously test you to find the times that you are not watching the pond. When they find that time, they will return every day thereafter at the same time...don't believe me? Well I wouldn't blame you if you didn't cause I wouldn't attribute that level of "smarts" to what otherwise appears to be a very stupid bird, but I've seen it over and over in the winters in East Texas.,