The setting..A forum member living near me has a gorgeous custom home nearing completion and had built a really nice Smallie pond in a very picturesque setting.
Problem? His SMB pond looked like creamed coffee and completely ruined the aesthetics of his dream home and he wanted the deep green of a healthy, vibrant ecosystem to gaze upon from his porch.
Solution....He called me and asked if I could help. His pond was larger than any I had cleared before and due to the volume of Alum and hydrated lime needed, I decided to build a chemical barge and tackle his problem.
In July 2011, I built the barge and launched it in his pond, spraying 3600 pounds of alum and 1500 pounds of Hydrated lime simultaneously and the pond cleared well and stayed that way through the summer.
New Problems...A neighbor at the top of the SMB pond's watershed decided to build a pond with a backhoe and graciously spread several dozen yards of colloidal clay, around his property completely exposed and unplanted so that every rain event washes copious amounts of clay into the freshly cleared SMB pond, eventually turning it into an uglier mess than ever.
Rather than be a "bad neighbor" and go to war, I was asked to come out again and clear the pond. For continued, long term control, the inflow areas were also lined with limestone rip rap both above and below a settlement pond along with the placement of "Floc Logs" to treat and remove any new incoming colloidal clay in the future and another 3600 pounds of Alum and 1500 pounds of Hydrated Lime. I'm sure the "nice" neighbor could not care less about the damage being done below his property or that legally speaking, he is trespassing. It was decided to go extra heavy on the alum application to ensure any incoming colloidal clay will not suspend before plant life can establish to eliminate future problems. The "cleared"pictures were taken 2 days after the Alum application and you can see there is a nice bloom starting with the sunshine now reaching deeply into the water.
The first few pictures are indicative of how the pond looked to start and the last picture shows what it was all for!
The silt basin (untreated)
Three views from the front porch area...
A pretty pool and stream flowing into the pond...
Looking back toward the house..SMB bed in the fore ground and looking at bottom in up to a 6 foot depth at a sharp angle..
This is where the BG spawn...2 feet of water along a rock wall..
More pics....
Some late spawn 2011 BG fry in 3 feet of water...
Shadowy look of a tree 4 feet below the surface...
The BG spawning shelf going out to an 8 foot depth before droppind off sharply....
"Shallow" wind blown end going to 6 feet deep...
More 2011 YOY BG (Blue beacuse pic was taken through polarized sunglasses) 5 feet of water...
A male and femal BG caught the morning after application..about 8"...
And what this pond was really built for, (held by the pondmeister)....
Beautiful pond and great work with the Alum!
Nice! Is that the pond that the barge went swimming in?
What are the plans for the summer? Will the water stay that clear, or will a bloom reduce the visibility?
uhhh...There were a couple Rainman moments...but the answer to your question is yes. Fortunately, the "no questions asked" 2yr warranty on the 2 trash pumps paid off withing a couple hours of the maiden voyage.
The inflow has High capacity floc logs in it to kill any incoming colloidal clay, but a good bloom is already taking off and is hoped for to control and re-balance the chemistry.
There is a nice coating of Hydrated Lime and Alum on most of the boat now, but a 40' wide heavy spray sure cuts the application time and makes it MUCH more accurate to apply!!! Now if I can remember to not throttle up when trying to hit reverse with the nose under water...it wasn't built to be a submesible....yet
When those totes are full, that's a whole lotta weight on the front of the boat! But, I suppose you know that now.
Great work there Rainman. I just wished my pond would clear. I've put so much alum and lime in it, I almost forgot how much. Mine still looks like creamed coffee.
Great work there Rainman. I just wished my pond would clear. I've put so much alum and lime in it, I almost forgot how much. Mine still looks like creamed coffee.
I do make house calls....lol
About how many acre feet of water are in the pond?
About how many acre feet of water are in the pond?
Estimated around 18...
You have created a beautiful pond hope we all can do same thanks for sharing.
Well done Rex and a nice barge. What is the source of the water coming in from the small pool?
Well done Rex and a nice barge. What is the source of the water coming in from the small pool?
The water source is all from runoff. The Colloidal clay source was from an upstream pond at the head of the watershed on an adjoin property. I believe that person put the land for sale, and the pond owner of the cleared pond, bought it, so now he has full control over his entire watershed.
This is amazing to see. I hope to see the same results in my pond!
I can see down into the water about .5" now.
This is amazing to see. I hope to see the same results in my pond!
I can see down into the water about .5" now.
The pond above will soon be free of suspended clay and looking great! The very cold water poses some special problems to create the needed reactions to cause flocculation. The jar tests below revealed there are considerable organic solids suspended in the pond water as well, which causes gas bubbles to form (presumably carbon dioxide) and float the floc. Once disturbed by wind/wave action, or in this case, some agitation from the spray barge, the trapped bubbles will be released and the floc will quickly settle.
The pond quickly froze over in the recent cold snap, but this weekend is calling for temps in the mid 50's with rain, so the ice will be melted, giving a brief window next Monday to treat the pond...More pics to come...
Starting the Jar test...Pond water has under 2" clarity...
30 minutes after dosing with Alum and some sodium bi-carb to create a hydrolosis reaction (Pond application will be with Hydrated Lime to create the reaction) Note the floating floc already forming on top.
2 hours after the alum dose, the water is essentially cleared. The specks and cloudiness seen is actually gas bubbles on the inside of the jar sides...
11 hours later, and after being shaken to release the gas bubbles. Water is crystal clear, but new bubbles formed from organic solids decaying rapidly and the chemical reaction happening. (note there is over 1/2" of fluffy floc on the bottom in this container holding one gallon of water)
Rex,
This is amazing.. Hoping it works on the pond, and it'll stay that way.. Ha
There's got to be a inch of ice on it now, but 50s and rain Sat and Sun. Maybe it'll be full by next week. (And holding..)
Jeff
You might be even warmer than that. They are calling for 50's up here and thunderstorms on Sunday.
I'm hoping it will be warmer also. Gotta get the boat in before the weekend rains muddy up the road, but at least the forecast is calling for a dry Monday
Setterguy's pond is cleared, and he took several pictures before, during and after the application.
The first pic is his pond water 3 days after the minimum alum application I would do. The pond being treated is not full, and still has some exposed clay, so it was treated more heavily in anticipation of more colloidal clay entering the pond before it reaches full pool. The cold weather/water created special issues for applying the Alum and required the Hydrated lime being added first rather than simultaneously or after the Alum in order to create the hydrolosis reaction to create floc.
Jar test water after 3 days undisturbed and repeatedly shaken....
The joys and damage of launching a boat into a frozen pond in a nearly inaccessible area after dark.... I was expecting 1/2" thick ice, but finding nearly 3 inches....ice chunk is in the foreground and the trailer was pretty mangled... The backs of the aluminum pontoons and propeller got nicely reshaped as well, but no pictures yet...lol The next day, it only took a about 3 hours using the prop wash (and 60 degree wind temps) to circulate and completely melt all the ice..
Adjusting spray nozzles for a full coverage, narrow pattern...spraying a 25 foot swath rather than my normal 40'+ coverage per pass
After spraying 1700 pounds of Hydrated lime quickly to avoid the rapid pH change and potential death of Fathead Minnows (only fish present), the 3400 pounds of alum spraying began on the edges to allow fish to have a pH neutral "safe haven" to stay in during the treatment...only one fish and 2 frogs were reported as seen that were dead after treatment
The following were during, shortly after treatment... There are Minnows visible in a couple pictures.
Fathead in center....
Flocculation starting immediately...
another FHM
Nice job of clearing the muddy water. Your experience shows in the results. You are lucky to be able to get that barge in the pond. Results may have be a little more reactive and better in warmer water of summer.
Rex, I'm pretty impressed. Well documented and a great win here. Good for you, owner, and the forum.
I am totally amazed by the results, and the speed which this transformation took place.
The pictures tell the story accurately. It was so fast, you could almost see it clearing.
I can't compliment Rex enough. He really came to work, and didn't let up until complete. It's no easy job either!
I went from what I would call zero visibility, where if I dipped a leaf in the water, I couldn't see the bottom half of the leaf, to unlimited visibility.
This may be included in Rex's pics above, but this rock pile is down pretty deep.
You can see the clay particles (I'm sure Rex will fill in the technical name) sitting on the bottom.
The next day, I found one floating FHM. The frogs along the bank were used to total invisibility. Now they swim way out trying to hide under the leaves on the bottom!
Very impressive.
Too cool - great documentation of the issue and solution. Glad to see your awesome SMB fishery is on it's way! This should be archived.
Please have the pond owner keep us informed as to how long the pond stays clear. Clearer water will definitely help the SMB population.
Good going Rex! SetterGuy, now what do you think of the pond?
I see Rex put in not too far from the depression that is fed from the alfalfa field. Did Bill or the brothers (I forget their name) get the new culvert installed there?
Are you starting to accumulate the cover that needs to go into the pond? It looks like the water level is staying relatively stable now, but you need a couple more feet to reach full pool.
Good going Rex! SetterGuy, now what do you think of the pond?
I see Rex put in not too far from the depression that is fed from the alfalfa field. Did Bill or the brothers (I forget their name) get the new culvert installed there?
Are you starting to accumulate the cover that needs to go into the pond? It looks like the water level is staying relatively stable now, but you need a couple more feet to reach full pool.
I've got a lot of ideas, some easier than others. More rock ordered. (4"&9") I found (remember the guy that owned this property before me was a hoarder) five 8' sections of 4" PVC pipe. I'm going to cut it into 4' sections, and set them in the many 5 gal buckets laying around. Pour in concrete, and many cross pieces of 1" PVC.
I did not need a new culvert. The old ones are doing the job. The good news is the grass and wheat are filtering the incoming water, and the main water inlet is coming from the alfalfa fields is very clear.
I'm hoping (if everything works as planned) to have, clear water, a full pond, with structure in place, for early fish stocking next spring. And yes,, I think the dam is holding, and no other leaks. (Knock on wood) it dropped about a inch a week after the last rain, and that was the initial fill. Probably not considered perfect, but not enough to drain and try to fix..
Getting snow today. This will help the fescue anyway, even if it's not enough to bring up the water level.
Rex's pontoon boat is getting iced in.
(BTW Scott, I shot a buck with that Browning 270 you and I sighted in.) he wasn't a trophy but had four points on a side, so he was a shooter in my book.. (From that first stand near the house.)
Congrats on the deer!!! Ya see what happens when the bullet goes where the scope is looking?
You are doing better than I am this year!
Instead of using PVC side branches in the 4" pipe, get some 1/2" or 3/4" black poly pipe. A little bit more flexible, and you can drill holes in the 4" pipe with a unibit.
Maybe Rex is leaving the boat there for structure next spring......
Good news about the culvert. My concern about a leak is around that rock that was showing in the pond bottom. Time (and water level) will tell. My pond was iced in before I left for Wi. but today it was 50% ice free.
I never saw the rock you mentioned, esshup. I do seem to recall Setterguy saying the builders covered the exposed rock and sheepsfooted it in. I walked the old drainage, well below the dam, and found no unusually wet areas. The builders compacted the clay extremely well! When I launched the boat, there were not even any tire tracks left. When I had to get into the water with my waders on, the soil under water was as firm as dry ground.
I had to leave the boat in the water because the road was very wet and soft. I found I can melt 3+ inch thick ice on the pond in minutes using the prop wash to circulate it. I may just wait till the ground is frozen to take out the boat or if the road is dry enough, remove it this weekend when temps will be in the 60's again.
This pond will stay clear (of clay anyway) for a very long time! Even if new clay enters, there is plenty of residual positively charged Ions to prevent suspension. Stirring up the bottom sediment only takes seconds for it resettle.
I did succumb to one of the dangers of spraying Alum and Hydrated lime this time. I wore a coat because of the cold weather, and the sleeves got wet. The acidic Alum and very caustic Hydrated Lime left me with some pretty nasty chemical burns on my wrists. I always rinse my hands after exposure, but the insides of the coat sleeves didn't get diluted enough....It took about 2 days before the affected skin areas stopped dying, but is healing nicely now. I do know the dangers, and do take precautions, but I wanted to post this because many like to do things ourselves and these chemicals CAN be somewhat dangerous when not paying close attention.
Right wrist and left thumb base with Hydrated lime under the skin....second picture is after 5 days and starting to heal
Rex, I've treated several concrete guys that had Hydrated Lime burns over the years, and they are bad. Old school Barbasol was the treatment of choice. How long after exposure did it take before you realized you were getting burnt?
I'd noticed near the end of the Lime application and intentionally tried to neutralize the lime with alum solution. By that evening, the pain began and it had spread considerably. This was the first time I ever had the lime get underneath the skin and spread. All I can attribute to the cause is my coat sleeves rubbing and spreading it.
...All I can attribute to the cause is my coat sleeves rubbing and spreading it.
I bet that's correct. The guys we treated were burnt under their wet bluejeans, and not on exposed skin.
Rex, yes, Bill and the brothers did compact it well. They had a problem with the sheepsfoot tossing a bearing, and had a problem with rocks, but overall they did a good job. The rock that I was referring to is one that's partially exposed in the pond basin, but is now under maybe 4' to 5' of water.
As weird as it may sound, the scar tissue from being burned when young had kind of spoiled me when it comes to chemicals. Having almost no sweat glands in the wrist area, I have always been pretty impervious to chemical absorption.
Rex, it does look likes it's healing up. Those first pics sure gave me the willies.
60 degrees tomorrow, let me know if you are going up to pull the boat out. I'll meet you there.
Rex,
According to my son, the water resource mgr. (Environmental Sci Mgr) the ph is around 7. Looks good, right?
It's amazing. It looks like a spring (except for the ice, haha) I am still amazed at how far down I can see. Where before it was less than an inch.
It's as clear as tap water.
Setterguy thanks for the post. I may want to do the same this spring. But before I attempt it, I will see how things settle out in my new pond, setting at 2/3rd full now. I would like to know what was the pH prior to the Alum and lime treatment. That would determine what lime additions I would make. And where did you pick up the alum? And what is the floc log you speak of? Is there such a thing? And thanks for posting the pictures of the set up. It gives me a picture of how to mix by circulating the tank and then how to set up the spray bar. This is really helful shoud I decide to floc.
How long does an alum treatment last?
Wow - I got lime all over my face hands and arms when I applied and wasn't that concerned. Looks like I dodged a bullet, again.
Wow - I got lime all over my face hands and arms when I applied and wasn't that concerned. Looks like I dodged a bullet, again.
Was it hydrated lime, though? That's the nasty stuff.
Setterguy thanks for the post. I may want to do the same this spring. But before I attempt it, I will see how things settle out in my new pond, setting at 2/3rd full now. I would like to know what was the pH prior to the Alum and lime treatment. That would determine what lime additions I would make. And where did you pick up the alum? And what is the floc log you speak of? Is there such a thing? And thanks for posting the pictures of the set up. It gives me a picture of how to mix by circulating the tank and then how to set up the spray bar. This is really helful shoud I decide to floc.
I did not check my ph prior to Rex doing the alum treatment. I had stocked FHM earlier in the fall and they were doing fine. The test tube I was holding up (pictured above) was after the drops of chemical were added. According to my son the color (blue) indicates a ph of around 7.
Rex provides everything needed and brings in his pontoon boat all rigged up. For me to do this on my own, would have been a pretty big task. He's done in many times, and it doesn't take him long. My pond isn't full yet either. Rex thinks there will be enough alum residual to take care of the final 4 or 5' of water to get me to full pool. I'm trying to get a jump start on spring. I want to have it ready for fish stocking early in the spring.
How long does an alum treatment last?
I've asked that many times. It's not cheap to get this done, and I obviously didn't want to waste money. The last rain we had I checked water coming in, and it was clear. Most of the water comes in through a alfalfa field. It was planted in August, but it's pretty well established. The wheat/ fescue I planted around the pond has come up nicely, so I am hoping for very long term clarity, at least in regards to the suspended clay.
My jar test indicated that the clay was going to stay suspended indefinitely.
What kind od wheat are you planting for that?
Wow - I got lime all over my face hands and arms when I applied and wasn't that concerned. Looks like I dodged a bullet, again.
TJ, The hydrated Lime is very caustic, but when it dries quickly, it doesn't seem to be a danger. The burns I sustained were where my coat sleeves had been saturated and were in constant contact with my skin and being rubbed into it.
How long does an alum treatment last?
The original treatment to remove colloidal clay is permanent. The Alum also removes any Phosphorus that is present during the treatment from the water, permanently, as well.
Colloidal clay is attracted to the Alum/Lime like metal fines are to a magnet. Also like a magnet, only a finite amount of metal fines can be bound up within the magnetic field.
The highly positively charged ion's of the Aluminum Sulfate and Hydrated Lime that settle out in the bottom will act like a magnet to attract a considerably large amount of any incoming colloidal clay.
As to "how long" the treatment will last....That depends! After the initial treatment to clear the water, sunlight penetration will allow submerged plants, phytoplankton, and other aspects of the ecosystem to grow and thrive, helping to filter or ionically remove future incoming colloidal clay from the water. If large amounts of colloidal clay remain exposed and able to get flushed into the pond after a treatment, it can overwhelm everything and cloud the pond indefinitely again.
What kind od wheat are you planting for that?
It's just regular winter wheat. It should start up again in the spring, and shade the fescue until it's stronger.
That's if things work the way I hope, but it's new territory for me. Getting advice from the "soils" section here on the forum.
The only question I have now, is if I'm going to mow it in the spring, or let it get to full height.
Yes, I performed a hydrated lime treatment, but only 200 lbs. Like I said, I guess I got lucky...will be more careful during application process next time.
Still looking clear.. Getting a greenish tint..
Still waiting for a nice rain storm to get the pond filled. It hasn't really rained in a long time. (Seems that way, if you are waiting for a pond to fill.)
We did get 1/2" last week. That kept it at the same level.
Great chronicle of the water treatment - looking great...now - where the heck are the SMB?
I have thoroughly enjoyed this well documented account of a process I didn't even know existed. Very, very cool keep it up guys.
So I assume this works for newly constructed ponds or ponds that have excessive run off issues leading into the ponds eroding the banks etc...Will this then cause a substantial muck layer to form on bottom ? Or will it just be a few inches of fluff and nothing to concerning ?
I have thoroughly enjoyed this well documented account of a process I didn't even know existed. Very, very cool keep it up guys.
So I assume this works for newly constructed ponds or ponds that have excessive run off issues leading into the ponds eroding the banks etc...Will this then cause a substantial muck layer to form on bottom ? Or will it just be a few inches of fluff and nothing to concerning ?
Once the "fluff" has time to settle it is not more than a 1/4" of clay on the bottom of the pond.
Update on the pond water, and clarity.
Went up today, because we finally got some rain! 1.5 to 2.0" according to the climate website. Got some suspended clay in the water again, hopefully there's enough alum still in June pond to knock this down. Water was still coming in (trickle) when I took the pics, so it's right after a rain. I suspect it'll settle out pretty quickly. It's also still a thousand percent more clear compared to last fall.
Main inlet. You can tell how much water was coming in by how the grass in the rocks is laid over. (By the way, there were half a dozen FHM trapped up in the rocks in the inlet. They got caught up there when the water flowing in stopped.)
Another shot of the water. This shows the high water mark on the 2x2" (tape) it's almost back to where it was in March, before the drought started.
I have a small pond (1 acre/ft) that I am treating with Aluminum Sulfate to clear the water. I put in 150 lbs but still only have 2 feet of visibility.I have high pH (7.8) so I didn't use any hydrated lime. Is the lime required to make the chemical reaction happen?
Alum isn't a "lets put a little in to clear the water a little". You have to put in enough to start the clay flocculation or it's like you didn't add any at all.
By doing the bucket test, that should have told you how much alum you needed to start the flocculation process.
High pH or not, keep testing as you go and have some Hydrated lime on hand. That is unless you don't have fish in there. Then it doesn't matter.
That alum that you added, how much did it change the pH?
Jeff, congrats on some rain. What's the water clarity now? Is it settling out? Try secchi disk reading every other day, you should be seeing some improvement.
Alum isn't that expensive, if you need another treatment, now you know what to do.
The Alum I put in lowered the pH to 7.4 (I tested when the water was still cloudy white) but it went back up to 7.8 when full mixed in after 8 hours.
The Alum I put in lowered the pH to 7.4 (I tested when the water was still cloudy white) but it went back up to 7.8 when full mixed in after 8 hours.
Hydrated lime is part of the total Alum reaction treatment. It adds extra positively charged ions and starts the process faster than Alum alone. I rarely apply under 200 pounds alum per acre foot of water.
The jar test gives you a dosing rate only if you have very precise scales and volumes to start with....plus, it is a reaction in a small, undisturbed setting...hardly close to real world application conditions.
Setter guy...you scared the bejeezus outta me with that picture!!!
Dis you grab a jar of water to see if it clears? I am wondering if the rush of inflow stirred the bottom floc from this past winter since you have gotten such a nice stand of grass on the shoreline.
Jeff, I hope you've raised that feeder to higher ground before the next rain event.
Rex,
I still haven't had to move the feeder. We've had another rain since the last one. This last rain has the pond at its highest level yet. I got there right after the rain, and the water was coming in from three or four places. The two main inlets had some silt flowing in, but not like the mud flowing in we originally had. The water is a weird color now. It appears to my untrained eye to be a brown algae. I don't know. I have not done a visibility depth test. Here's a pic from yesterday. This is post rain by four or five days..
It's actually a pretty ugly color. I'm hoping something happens to clear it, or get it back to green. I'm still running the feeder. The YP appear to be hitting the feed. It goes off for 3 sec at 6:00 pm, that's it. The feed is basically gone in 10-15 minutes. Still some FHM working on AM 600 pieces by nibbling at it.
Do you think the feed not eaten by the fish (if there is any) is causing this weird color, or is it runoff from the recent rains? If you can tell from a picture..
Here is a pic from this morning. If you look in the upper half of the pic, through the reflection, you can see submerged pallets. (3 pallets, with rocks between them.) I'm posting it, to give you an idea of the clarity. FYI, the color is uniform throughout the pond.
I'll grab a jar of water today for clarity, and do a test for ph. Also, the water has dropped, maybe, a half inch in five days..
I can easily see the bottom step on the ladder when it's down. (At least 18")
The water seems "stained" hard to describe. I need to mow again too. Ha
Well, I did the jar test. The water still seems brown, but it has decent 18" visibility. Here's what the water looks like.
The jar. (Taken 8' from shore 2' deep.)
So, I'm guessing it's ok. Must be brown algae, or just stain from the oak and hickory leaves, or soil, or whatever.
You have gotten quite a bit of White Oak and Hickory leaf litter in there, and without your aeration installed yet, the tannins are able to leach out before decay can convert it. Harmless, and I think it will self correct as you go along.
Jeff, if brown algae is present, keeping the jar in the dark for a few days will kill it and you should see some that looks like sediment. If no change, try adding some alum and shaking.....I'd bet there will still be no change, which would indicate to me it is tannin staining.
I've got the jar in the barn. It gets pretty light in there during the day. I'll move it to a closet. Thx! Supposed to be getting more rain tonight.
Don't know if you noticed. I raised the feeder..
Catch anything in the live traps other than ants?
Catch anything in the live traps other than ants?
Not yet. I don't know if the coons are smarter than I am, but the trap is always closed up and locked tight. It gets moved three or four feet down the hill, but no coons.. I wonder of they just spring it, then roll it over and eat all the chow once it spills out. Ha
Not yet. I don't know if the coons are smarter than I am, but the trap is always closed up and locked tight. It gets moved three or four feet down the hill, but no coons.. I wonder of they just spring it, then roll it over and eat all the chow once it spills out. Ha
Been there done that. FWIW what worked for me was staking the trap down with tent spikes, landscape staples, etc.
If you enclose the trap with plywood, that forces them to go in thru the door.
Also, try taking a can of sardines in oil. Poke a few holes in the top with an ice pick and slide it all the way to the back of the cage.
Or get a
Little Grizz. Use a few marshmallows or the fish food as bait.
Catch anything in the live traps other than ants?
Not yet. I don't know if the coons are smarter than I am, but the trap is always closed up and locked tight. It gets moved three or four feet down the hill, but no coons.. I wonder of they just spring it, then roll it over and eat all the chow once it spills out. Ha
That's what mine did, I have to put a piece of rebar through back end to keep them from rolling it. Started catching them soon thereafter. Cinder block would probably also do the trick
Catch anything in the live traps other than ants?
Not yet. I don't know if the coons are smarter than I am, but the trap is always closed up and locked tight. It gets moved three or four feet down the hill, but no coons.. I wonder of they just spring it, then roll it over and eat all the chow once it spills out. Ha
That's what mine did, I have to put a piece of rebar through back end to keep them from rolling it. Started catching them soon thereafter. Cinder block would probably also do the trick
I'll stake it down, and get a can of sardines. That should do it. If it doesn't, I'll box it I. So far they just dig the rocks up under the feeder, and get mud around the bottom. Haven't figured out how to climb it yet. I have a deer feeder in the alfalfa field above the pond. A game camera up there got 7 coons in one pic. I know I've got a healthy population of coons up there.
They'll figure out how to climb it in a hurry.
Maybe they are all too fat.. They certainly got their share of corn up at the deer feeder. It's part of my test for the "new and improved" AquaPro feeder. So far so good. It's been working like a champ, for a whole month and a half. So far tip proof, and climb proof. (Knock on wood)
Good article on clearing muddy water.
CONTROL of CLAY TURBIDITY IN POND
Has anyone used Cottonseed Meal in small ponds to clear muddy water? If yes ..... Were you successful?
Dennis South Carolina
Trying to stay away from the Aluminum and it's side effects.
Trying to stay away from the Aluminum and it's side effects.
What side effects? None known I am aware of. The only "myth" I have ever even heard of was a long since and repeatedly debunked claim of a link to Alzheimer's.
Cottonseed hulls and some other ionically positive charged organics, like Barley straw, can
sometimes work, but also add MASSIVE amounts of biological waste (detritus) to the pond that would normally take years to accumulate.
Alum and Hydrated Lime, applied properly are entirely safe and have no known dangers or residual problems....it's (in one form or another) in most all municipalities drinking water and countless canned vegetables.
What side effects? None known I am aware of. The only "myth" I have ever even heard of was a long since and repeatedly debunked claim of a link to Alzheimer's.
But Rex, I ran across a very concerning article on the Internet that said .....
-
On a side-note, I've always wondered how such substances are "linked" to one human malady or another.
Does someone poll a test-group of individuals who share a specific illness or condition in an attempt to determine the SINGLE exposure-variable that they all have in common - while ignoring all other exposure or genetic possibilities? Think about that for a second....
What if the afflicted individuals in such a test-group had an undisclosed genetic predisposition for a reactive skin-response to sunlight radiation (ie. red heads), but because those individuals are found to use a certain type of soap while bathing, the soap is "linked" as a causal-agent for their tendency to sunburn? Sounds legit...
Kelly, I still remember how eggs and shrimp would kill us dead because cholesterol. Now we know better.
The only thing I fear at all from my pond is blue-green algae, which actually has been shown to be toxic under certain conditions.
Well, that and swimming with GSF!
^ So true. I've learned to always question the phrase "linked to". Too often, it is an attempt to create unwarranted concern; most likely to serve an ulterior motivation.
HELP FINDING POWDER ALUM - TRIED HELNA CHEMICALS IN GREENVILLE - THEY BLEW ME OFF SAYING I HAD TO BE AN 'INDUSTRIAL USER' -
ANY IDEAS FROM ANYONE - I NEED IT ULTIMATELY TO USE IT NEAR PARIS TEXAS
THANKS
HELP FINDING POWDER ALUM - TRIED HELNA CHEMICALS IN GREENVILLE - THEY BLEW ME OFF SAYING I HAD TO BE AN 'INDUSTRIAL USER' -
ANY IDEAS FROM ANYONE - I NEED IT ULTIMATELY TO USE IT NEAR PARIS TEXAS
THANKS
I'd try another location. I called one in my area they said they have never heard of it. Another one in OK said they had it.
https://www.helenachemical.com/ and click on locations:
1 Honey Grove (TX)
15158 E Highway 56
Rt 2 Box 28
Honey Grove, TX 75446
903-378-7391
2 Whitewright (TX)
1110 Bond Street
Whitewright, TX 75491
903-364-5675
After reading this I thought I would ck here locally so I checked with them at their office in Gillum La. (just north of Shreveport) and they had not herd of Alum sulfate and did not know where I might find any.
Todd Overton(Overtons Fishery) told me he has the Alum if I decided to use it.
How did you calculate how much alum and lime to use?
SueL, click on the forum list at the top of this page. There is a lot of information listed under muddy water. No answer for you right now because "it depends" like many other things here. Hope this helps
It should be noted, if you use alum in your water, never do so without first monitoring your waters pH and alkalinity. It isn't enough to do it just once and start dispensing, KNOW your waters pH and alkalinity.
Trying to stay away from the Aluminum and it's side effects.
What side effects? None known I am aware of. The only "myth" I have ever even heard of was a long since and repeatedly debunked claim of a link to Alzheimer's.
Cottonseed hulls and some other ionically positive charged organics, like Barley straw, can
sometimes work, but also add MASSIVE amounts of biological waste (detritus) to the pond that would normally take years to accumulate.
Alum and Hydrated Lime, applied properly are entirely safe and have no known dangers or residual problems....it's (in one form or another) in most all municipalities drinking water and countless canned vegetables.
The science is definitive, aluminum is an endocrine disruptor. How much will impact your fishery? Undetermined. It will remain in your pond longer than you will. The real extent is unknown, mostly for the reason, why pay millions to study it? Would Glaxo Smith pay millions to prove echinacea cures the common cold?
Trying to stay away from the Aluminum and it's side effects.
What side effects? None known I am aware of. The only "myth" I have ever even heard of was a long since and repeatedly debunked claim of a link to Alzheimer's.
Cottonseed hulls and some other ionically positive charged organics, like Barley straw, can
sometimes work, but also add MASSIVE amounts of biological waste (detritus) to the pond that would normally take years to accumulate.
Alum and Hydrated Lime, applied properly are entirely safe and have no known dangers or residual problems....it's (in one form or another) in most all municipalities drinking water and countless canned vegetables.
The science is definitive, aluminum is an endocrine disruptor. How much will impact your fishery? Undetermined. It will remain in your pond longer than you will. The real extent is unknown, mostly for the reason, why pay millions to study it? Would Glaxo Smith pay millions to prove echinacea cures the common cold?
Aluminum in the pond is inert at a pH of 5.4 and above...science is not at all "definitive" on being an endocrine disruptor....science"suggests it MIGHT be....
From NIH.gov......"Aluminum and acidic water pH exposure caused no ionoregulatory disturbances. ... We suggest that aluminum can be considered an endocrine disrupting compound in mature O. niloticus females."
Aluminum will dissolve in acidic water at ~5.4 pH....then it can be toxic to fish....but, so is that acidic water when it begins dissolving gill tissue.....Alum is considered a very safe water treatment, and has been used for millenia
Back when we used my mother's hand me down aluminum pots, I was a champion sex fiend for my wife. Buy, doggone, I just realized it was after retiring those pans that things started slowing down.
What is the BEST time of year to treat with alum? My pond is near 4 foot low right now and cool weather with winter coming on. I have 1 inch visibility!! I did jar tests and it is definantly suspended clay. Also...I lost another VERY NICE lmb yesterday. 6 pounds 2 oz. and only 20 inch long!! I think that is 135% relative weight. Should I or can I do a alum treatment now?
TJ and I were just talking about this 2 days ago... we couldn't really come up with a reason to NOT treat it this time of year and if the water level is down, well, less Alum required.
My problem is being absolutely sure what the issue is.. Mechanical or otherwise.
Flame...I have treated waters with temps over 90 degrees and just after using prop wash to melt 3 inch thick ice cover (~35)...Both turned out well...I guess the "best" time of year is when YOU are ready!
Snipe, in the other Alum thread, you said after ice out, your pond was clear...Your question is answered! Your turbidity issue is a mechanical issue. Unless you know no bullhead or common carp are in the pond, it is wind wave action and rip rap need to be deeper on the prevailing wind side of the pond. If aerated, a diffuser may be tipped over or does not have a large enough base to prevent bottom scouring
My biggest problem is algal in nature Rex.. I keep pumping pond water out to water grass and straight well water back in. My entire pond is riprap.. all around and 4-5' down.
Part of our problem in western KS this last summer was fall-out from the colorado fires, it just supercharged the nutrient loads everywhere out here.
Kenny...When Rex treated my turbidity we used alum/hy lime and cutrine for the bloom. I wasn't aware you were facing a persistent algae bloom due to Summer nutrient influx issues - it's cheap, might want to think about some algaecide, too?
Snipe, then the results from cutrine plus liquid to nuke the pond, followed by alum/hydrated lime a couple weeks later that will bind most phosphorus currently in the water, will be dramatic
OK, I have about 3 ac ft volume.. 2 gal cutrine plus sprayed on, wait 2 weeks and do Alum/hyd lime treatment..
Last year at ice out water was pretty clear, this year I've had green water all through winter in and out of ice conditions.
Cutrine says above 60 degs, do you guys feel that's correct? I was planning 500lb Alum, 200 Hyd lime as soon as ice was off but if you think I should do that differently, I'm listening.
Edit: actual volume at ice out will be around 2.5 ac ft at the low point.
I wonder if alum would work if you spread it evenly on top of the ice, and just waited for the melt?
I don't think so.. It only works dissolved in a slurry if I understand correctly.
I defer to Rex here...if you’re binding/dropping the phosphorous with alum maybe algaecide treatment would be superfluous?
The less algae (phytoplankton) in the water, the more P will be suspended in the water for the alum to work on (less tied up in the algae). Lets see what Rex says, I'm more inclined to use 300#/150# per Ac/Ft water.....
Depending on the weather trend (is a warm front coming or a cold front?) I would hit it with Cutrine Plus in the low 50°F range if there was a warming trend coming.
Hopefully Rex will see this and let me know what he thinks about that.. I'm gonna come up short on time here when this weather clears with more ponds to build for fish I've got spoken for and still maintain pond #1.
The less algae (phytoplankton) in the water, the more P will be suspended in the water for the alum to work on (less tied up in the algae). Lets see what Rex says, I'm more inclined to use 300#/150# per Ac/Ft water.....
Depending on the weather trend (is a warm front coming or a cold front?) I would hit it with Cutrine Plus in the low 50°F range if there was a warming trend coming.
That's kinda why I want to hear back from Rex. The first year I did 350#/150# and it was sufficient but I had strong flow-through about a month later and the nutrients have never really been utilized since, so it's been a green factory situation for a good part of last 2 yrs.
The less algae (phytoplankton) in the water, the more P will be suspended in the water for the alum to work on (less tied up in the algae). Lets see what Rex says, I'm more inclined to use 300#/150# per Ac/Ft water.....
Depending on the weather trend (is a warm front coming or a cold front?) I would hit it with Cutrine Plus in the low 50°F range if there was a warming trend coming.
That's kinda why I want to hear back from Rex. The first year I did 350#/150# and it was sufficient but I had strong flow-through about a month later and the nutrients have never really been utilized since, so it's been a green factory situation for a good part of last 2 yrs.
Send him a PM, and if you don't hear back soon, let me know, I have his phone number.
Hey Rainman, I am going to pick your memory here, but do you know how this stream/waterfall was built? I assume there is a pump of some sort that pushes water to the top and it just flows back down into the main pond? I am wanting to do something very similar when I build my 2 acre pond, and am looking for as much info as I can get. Thanks!
Hi! It was a trench dug out for the waterfall with plastic liner and landscaping rock and a small pool at the top of the trench with a pond liner....There is a half or one horsepower submersible sump pump in the main pond with the output line running under the trench that was dug
