Does anyone know where or what to buy for areating a 3/4 acre pond? Should I use a fountain or a bottom areator? I have great waterflow (almost to much) and the pond is 12 ft deep at the deepest. Bass are my goal though I am yet to seee or catch one since releasing them late last fall. how many horse power how big any good places to get a nice one?????
Aquatic Eco Systems 1 877 347 4788
bottom diffused aeration probably a DA-1 system 1/3 hp will do the job . Get the weighted tubing and save some work. Proceed with caution with trout Bob Lusk is the man to ask for detailed info.
Scott
thanks i called and ordered a brochure. I know areators are better but what makes the difference between that and a fountain?
Aeration, from the bottom up, creates vertical currents, effectively mixing your water column. As well, aeration adds much needed oxygen to lower levels of a pond.
A fountain usually drafts shallow and is designed for aesthetic appeal.
If you want to stock bass, build the food chain first. Use fathead minnows and bluegill. Allow them some time to become established, then stock bass.
I like fingerlings...they grow up in your environment and become conditioned to what your pond is, and has.
Numbers of fish are determined by your goals, and your pond situation.
Take a look at Vertex Water Feature's bottom aeration systems too.
www.vertexwaterfeatures.com
bc - I would do a little more shopping for a bottom aerator than Aquatic Eco's DA1 and Vertex. Many places on web explain diference of fountains and botttom aerators. You basically do not want a fountain unless you want it basically for looks and sound. Most basic fountains do not upwell bottom water unless the bottom is only 5 - 6 ft deep.
Since you are in OH you can get the same type units in OH and a cheaper unit price and cheaper shipping. See
www.ridgeviewfinfarm.com and
www.ibnature.com. Also check: pond aerator, on eBay.
The problem with DA1 is it is a one head rocking piston compressor. It produces only 1.5cfm open flow and is pretty noisy compared to a rotary vane driven system that produces 4.5cfm open flow and runs pretty quiet. Since you have a 3/4ac pond, greater air flows will produce stronger water movement and can run multiple diffusers if needed. Stronger water movement mixes faster which means once the pond is mixed one can turn off (timer) & rest the pump until the pond needs remixing (usu next day). Undersized units need to be run continusously to get all the water mixed in 24 hours. Rotary vane units can be as cheap or cheaper as the DA1 if you shop around. Not sure of Vertex cost. Compressor is the most expensive and important feature of a bottom aerator system. Get the best with least & easiest maintenance for a similar or slightly more dollars.
Weighted tubing saves work and is very nice to work with, but is pricey compared to the commomn poly blk plastic pipe. Get out your wallet for weighted tubing it is 12x to 20x more expensive.
stoney creek has nice kits and good prices also.
I exclusivley sell Vertex and suggest atleast looking into it as an option. BTW Bill is right the self weighted is more, but you should only have to run 100feet or so in 3/4 acre pond. It is $1.10/ft. For such a small savings I would not think of using cheap pipe and placing with bricks every few feet.
greg,i would like to purchase a aeration system from you for my 4 1/2 acre pond.what type should i get?pond has water from 3 feet to 6 1/2 average,although i do have a little water in in7-71/2 range.and about how much money to purchase system?thanks.p.s.feeder you sold me works great,nice not having to got out in the rain,feeder does not mind working in these conditions.
I'll emaill you with some specific questions. It seems some folks here get upset if I actually make money from here every once in awhile. :p
ok thanks. What do you all think of a fountain areator???? according to local water people here it does bot for the fountain and to help fish When I told them I wanted it for the fish not for me they just grin and explain this does both. even in the broucures it talks about fish kill and all that and says its great for ponds. Am I making another mistake by thinking the people who do this kind of stuff for a living know more about it than me? I have done a little research and tend to overkill before I buy.
bc,
A Kasco aerator can make a display feature. For example the 3/4 hr makes a 5 ft high 8 ft wide spray pattern and cost about $1,100. However if you buy it without the capabilites to make the spray pattern just a churn of water it is $200 less and the pounds of oxygen/hour goes way up. In other words it is better for preventing a fish kill and it cost less. Having said that I sell more of the display aerators b/c folks like the way it looks. It's your choice.
Fountain aerators draw or suck water from basically the intake depth. So if the fountain intake is 5 ft deep then the fountain by itself will not cause mixing much more than 5 ft deep. Note many fountains have intake depths of 3ft. Wind will help circulate the surface water as deep as 8 ft if you get big waves 2ft to 4 ft high. If you have a fountain with a 3 ft deep intake and oxygen is present at 6 ft deep, the oxygen is being circulated to 6 ft deep by wind, convection, or boat motor mixing.
A fountain sucks up a lot of the SAME water and sprays it into the air over and over. Thus you can get a real high amount of dissolved oxygen in the area around the fountain. This area would be a high oxygen refuge area if you have SUMMER turnover or inversion and the top water loses its oxygen. Trouble is will the majority of the fish be "smart" enough to find this oxygenated water. The other factor that comes into play is the size of the pond or lake. The bigger the water body the more fish there will be and what chance is there that the majority of fish will find this high oxygen area fast enough before they suffocate.
"They" say a fountain is a good emergency aerator due to the way it operates and how it adds large amounts of oxygen right around the fountain. Are the fish smart enough to go to this newnoisy area if a motorized spraying fountain is added during a fish kill? Normally wildlife is pretty wary of anything new added to their environment and they initially shy away from it.
A bottom aerator - diffuser elimiates all the above problems because it continually or daily recirculates quite a large portion of the WHOLE area around the diffuser/s; BOTTOM to TOP. Thus the pond bottom water does not build up a large oxygen loss and a sumer turnover or inversion rarely happens that results in a major fish kill.
The other major benefit to a bottom aerator is it keeps oxygen at the bottom and across the bottom muds to keep tremendous numbers of pond organisms alive at the bottom. Pond organisms on the bottom help decompose the organic material that accumulates / settles on the bottoms.
When fountains are used in ponds where the bottoms are deep (greater than 8ft), all deep bottom areas lose the oxygen during summer and all bottom dwelling insects, invertebrates, mollusks and general life forms leave or die. Fish also leave this zone. Why would you want this to happen? Why cut off the oxygen to a part of your body? What will happen to the oxygen deprived part then? Also when oxygen is LOST on the deeper bottom muds the decompostion rate or decay rate drops 20 - 30 times; primarily because all the life decomposing processing forms have died or migrated out.
In every pond deeper than 8ft where I have tested the oxygen when fountains were used during summer,, the oxygen is gone or down to 0 in June/July. Sometimes it is gone as soon as end of May. "Fountain salesmen" ignore, do not mention, or are not aware of this very important point. If they say a fountain mixes or draws water from the deep (8ft+) zone they are not being truthful or/ and have never tested the mid-summer oxygen levels in the deep water with a fountain as a mixer.
In summary, in deeper ponds, fountains do not circulate bottom water and bottom diffusers do.
Do you want oxygen on the deeper bottom areas or not? It's your choice and it's your pond.
Bill do you mind if I print this out and use it in my management reports.
You said that so much better than I ever have. I get that question of surface aerator vs. bottom diffuser about once a month or more.
One point I wanted to make though is in fairly small ponds less than 1/2 acre fairly shallow (8 feet or less) I have seen the lake not become stratified after the introduction of the surface aerator. I've also seen times where there would have been massive fish kills that were prevented by having the aerator in place. Aerators at times "fit the bill".
Greg. Yes you can use this info in your promo but please give me credit for creating it at the article's end. I also have quite a bit of similar aerator information in the aerator section. It seems I have to repeat this same stuff often.
You are correct about fountains in small, shallow or medium depth waters. Key point is small & shallow. They are okay there for bottom mixing. The pond's exposure to wind has a limiting factor here. Fountains in smaller shallower ponds can mix water deep enough and over most of the pond's area/volume so that there is no or minimal, deoxygenated, water volume in the bottom zone. Then when this low volume poor quality water is inverted it cannot degrade the upper layers ENOUGH to cause problems UNLESS there are other unusual conditons such as cloudy days, heavy aquashade or other oxygen robbing or suppressing conditions occurring at the same time or shortly after the inversion.
As I mentioned above, if there is a turnover/inversion in a larger or deeper pond, an operating fountain can maintain enough oxygen in the vicinity of the splash zone to keep many fish from suffocating.
But here again, why would one want the bottom of a deeper pond to be without oxygen and get septic? I think almost all of those that allow it to happen do not realize it is happening. If they had to be in or exist in that deep deoxygenated water for only one-half minute, I guarantee you it would be corrected if possible. It occurs in many many ponds because the owners do not realize how bad it gets down there and the severe degredation of bottom sediments that occurs. Out of sight; out of mind. If you can't see it then it must not be happening. Everything looks okay, maybe even sort of pristine from on top until fish start gulping for air. One cannot see black sludgey, souppy septic muds and the massive die off of the bottom bugs in the deep sediments. Also if you closely examine the black mud botttom sediments, there are no living invertebraes in that stuff. That should tell you something.
greg, i, and i'm sure many others appreciate your expertise on this site. i am going to purchase a diffuser system in the next 2 years or so, and i plan to purchase that from you, out of appreciation for your input on this website. your prices are obviously competitive, and i appreciate your input on this site. thanks, and please send or email me a brochure on your products. thanks again. mark
Ok I see you did see it and thanks a lot of useful info Is this what you do or just a lot of self taught knowledge? Thanks and I will look into it and probably move away from the "fountain areator" Glad I asked. One question, What about old farm ponds that always seem to grow lunkers but I just sat there for years? Why do the continually do so good with little or no help at all?
Cody,
I was just kidiing with you, you just word things beter than I. Also you take the time for complete answeres something I sometimes do not do. There is a cost/benefit to consider for aeration. One my ponds greater tha 10 acres it is quite coslty and honestly harder to fertilize when destratifed.
BC,
Are you talking about me? If so yes OTJ(you always learn more on the job). I also have a Masters in Fisheries. If been in the pond management field for, holly crap, 11 years. There are several diffuser systems on the market I just think Vertex is the best with the best customer service.
Mark,
I appreciate it! I will email you a link to the information. If I end up going to Lousiana next year (Lee) I will look you up.
BC, sorry about that you were talking about Bill who has answered your questions under another thread. Same initials I should have known. No good ansere but many times the farm ponds left alone are bass heavy, with lots of smaller bass and big "bream" with the occasional lunker that gets over the hump. They are usually vey fertile from runoff. I wish it was that easy.
bc - Nov 27th post, Answers.
My background: farm pond experiences started in 1967 when our family built a farm pond. My aquatic knowledge is from a double biology major in undergraduate and a MS in aquatic biology at Cental Michigan Univ. were I took numerous cources in identification of aquatic "critters" and fishery biology, fish culture and management. My knowledge of aeration started in graduate school when I wrote a term paper titled "Hypolimnetic Aeration" for limnology class. Much research and testing later it is still advancing. I've been heavy into the water biology thing ever since. Worked in the taxonomy lab of a large environmental consulting firm for 10 yrs in Pgh, PA and ended the stint as lab manager.
1. How can old ponds that sat there for yrs, with no care or aeration grow big old bass?.
A. I hope I did not imply that aeration is needed to grow big fish. If a person is going to spend a sizable amount on aeration they should know the differences in product types and styles and what each can and cannot do. It is better if making a purchase to do it from a position of being knowledgable & informed rather than being nieve and saying later "I wish I wouldn't have done that; if I had only known the difference before"...... It is kind of like going out and buying a bulldozer or bicycle to get to work when a car would have been more appropriate. Understand what each can do then buy what is needed for the job at hand.
B. Aeration is not needed to grow big fish in many ponds which you noted above. But ponds that are taken care of and managed properly are more likely and consistantly to grow more and larger fish for the longer term. On this same note how many ponds have you heard about as being fish out or only having stunted fish in them? Probably more of the last two types. Occassional summer fish kills "mess up" the fish balance in a lot of poorly managed ponds.
C. The need for artificial aeration in ponds/lakes is complex. Because the pond/lake system is a complex interaction of many, many things. But as a general rule I think that the larger a pond/lake is the less need there is for artificial aeration. There are many exceptions to this broad sweeping statement. Artificial aeration basically just prolongs the viable or useful life of a water body. Aeration slows down the aging process. It helps maintain a more normal balance of environmental conditons. It minimizes the extremes of oxygen cycles or pulses. The more wind action a water body gets the better and deeper the top layer will be circulated naturally.
D. Also the less or fewer nutrients that get in and clearer the water is in a pond the less need there is for aeration. Higher nutrient levels and clouder water reduces the depth at whcih oxygen is produced. So if one fertilizes and has cloudy water the more there is a need for aeration because oxygen is only being produced in the shallow upper zone. The deep zone is too dark for plants to produce oxygen and consumption of oxygen in the deep creates a big volume of deoxygenated water. This condition accelerates the death of a pond with no oxygen near the bottom.
E. Old neglected farm ponds often have clear water so light and then oxygen is at deep depths for much of the year. Clear water is key in these situations. If an inversion or summer turnover occurs in these ponds it brings up only oxygenated water or very little bad water and fish do not die. But keep in mind that clear ponds do not produce very many lunkers PER ACRE due to low productivity. Once these big fish are removed it takes a long time to regrow them providing the panfish or small bass do not take over first. These type of ponds are pretty delicately balanced ecosystems. As long as things stay relatively the same, they stay fairly stable for fairly long periods. But, minor changes of numerous types can disrupt the delicate balance. Then the once famous fishery is lost.
G. I could go on and on about more of the complex variables in these systems. But for brevity I will end.
This is an additon to Bob's post of Nov 22. He mentions that "aeration, from the bottom up, creates vertical currents, effectively mixing your water column". This is true but for novices it is a little misleading if you take it as complete fact or truth. The bottom diffused aeration and the resulting upwelling boil has only just so much "reach". The amount of reach or the resultant effective mixing area has LIMITS. The mixing boil cannot spread water out from the boil indefinately. The amount of reach or spread is dependent on the strength or size of the boil or rising column of water. Obviously the bigger & stronger it is the larger and more effective the spread will be. One small, continuously mixing column of water can not effectively circulate a, lets say a 10 acre lake. Plus a simple bowl shaped pond is also easier to effectively circulate than say a pond with an island, embayments and or heavy weed cover. All act as baffles to block, deflect, and hinder water flow and movemnet.
Still on areation, I came to the conclusion I probably want an areator instead of a fountain. I have looked over the sites people have given me. One book had one called great lakes another had one for just over a thousand dollars. The question is does anyone know of a cheaper way I would rather have 5 to 800.00 dollars in something instead of 1500 on up. Thanks
bc, obviously you didn't make it stoney creek web site. their PA 50 Gast rotary vane compressor kit with 2 membrane diffuser's , control valves, 200' feet of poly tubing is only 600 plus i think about 60 for shipping. the best kit around for the $. more than enough for your needs. i used 3/8" 20' rebar to weigh it down , make sure to over lap the rebar joints buy ' or so and connect the rebar to diffuer plate , so you don't break the fitting. put some bricks on the plate also. put diffuer in boat and use the rebar to push you out and drop it in , with a rope and float.
bc - I am working on some information for you from some local aeration people in Ohio. If you contact these two places in NW Ohio they will give you prices and information on their aeration units. Each has email access via the website. Both have very similar bottom aerators with optional items available to adjust the total quality and price. Each has the ability to provide different types of customer support.
www.ibnature.com www.ridgeviewfinfarm.com
Bc:
Last year about his time, I like you, was trying to upgrade my aeration system, but the costs were prohibitive. I learned from researching the archives for aeration from all the professionals that contribute to this board, and some mention their products, where others do not – and I have gained a tremendous respect for them all.
From one post, Bill Cody mentioned that “do it yourself” systems were available, from very lost cost to moderate cost high tech systems, but I was not aware that he marketed these products.
From my experience, I would highly recommend that you contact Bill Cody by email. He will assist you in assembling a high tech rotary vane compressor, bottom diffuser system at a moderate price, and will give you a crash course in aeration technology at the same time.
I presently have in our pond, an aeration system for less that $500.00, that consists of a 1/4hp Gast rotary vane compressor, 300ft of sinking airline (high quality garden hose w/ bricks) and, two state of the art membrane diffusers - all for about half of catalog system advertised prices.
Thanks Bill Cody,
George Glazener
I think that a great future article would be some comparitives between some of the major diffuser types or maybe a product testing article in each issue. This would be a great way to bring in more subscribers. I'm sure suppliers would be happy to donate some equipment to the PB crew in exchange for some free advertising. This would be great for lesser known brands, and I promise that I won't put the others out of business, maybe.
Robert B
I forgot, a follow up on the big bass in farm ponds is often simply a matter of restricted harvest and less pressure. If you look at the fish biomass in a heavily fished lake, there are much less larger fish at the top of the pyramid. With virgin fisheries it is more of a rectangle than a pyramid. Even on larger lakes with catch and release in tournaments, biologists are finding that there is a much higher mortality rate than we thought. Also, spread of diseases due to stress and concentrations of fish in livewells add to the problem, although my hypocracy knows no bounds.
Robert B
I think Bill Cody should do an article on pond areation especially regarding northern ponds. that is if he gets paid this time for an article rather than getting just a hat for it.
This magazine is in dire need of in depth articles like this and not something that just skims the surface as in an article on northern ponds in the last issue. Are you listening Bob?
Brevity is the soul of wit.
Bob Lusk is a good man. He takes constructive criticism very well which indicates wisdom. Bob you're O.K. in my book.
Bill thanks for the websites they are informative. I think one of my major problems in picking an system is first knowledge which all you guys have been overly helpfull I appreciate it. Second I guess what I am trying to avoid athough its what I want is a compressor running all the time along side my pond. Now its peacefull and quiet and after coming home from a Chemical plant the last thing I want to hear is a motor or compessor running away instead of frogs or something. Are these things like peace killers or can I still think while one is running? I guess what I am comparing it to is the one in my garage I purchased at Sears. Even the running of a small one like is in a fish tank eventually get on your nerves. If these are the only choices I would rather listen to a fountain. Any thought on noise levels? Also, I am still working on my fish stocking numbers I promised you. Anyone thinking of any good articles for pond boss mag? There getting kinda boring. how about talking about smaller ponds and maybe somewhere besides the great state of Texas. ( I am a Cowboy fan) but move on. Ideas, how about runoff and how it effects my pond, How about what cycles a pond goes through when its new or old or ideas for places for fish to hide. Tagging fish where they go where they dont go what they eating or not eating. I could go on just some ideas if anyone is reading this.
Not sure of others, but Vertex has its compressore mounted in a cabinet. You can barley hear it about 30 yards away and can still talk standing right beside it. Also you can build an additional cover around the cabinet to muffle sound even more, just don't block air intake. Others will tell you the same, you do have to run diffuser types 24/7 to serve their purpose.
bc,
If you have the same compressor I have from Sears there is nothing that loud except when Baghdad was bombed.
I would not worry about noise with these compressors. Even when you get close it is not that bad of a sound.
bc - Greg G. considering where he is in the south may need to run their aerators 24/7, BUT we in OH very rarely need to do that. I have never tested circulation patterns and mixing frequency in areas other than in Ohio. You can run aerators 24/7 in OH but it is definately not needed in most ponds. Exceptions occur. I consider 24/7 run times in our area a waste of electricity and it causes premature wear out of the compressor vanes and bearings especially when the extra run time does not provide anything more than that of a daily 5 to 8 hr mixing.
With 4+ cfm and two diffusers running in a northern, 3/4 acre, fairly normal, shaped pond you can thourghly mix it in 5 to 8 hrs running time. Guaranteed. Double your money back if I am wrong. I and others in my area have proven this many, many times and verified it often with oxygen & temperature tests throughout the summer. The important thing is to adequately size the unit for your pond in the first place. Don't undersize it and it will mix and destratify your pond quickly and efficiently.
Get a good unit adequately sized for your pond and put it on a timer and run it at night or during the day when you are not there. Rotary vane compressors are barely noiser than a loud hum. If no noise is a real important issue place the compressor in shed or garage and run the air delivery line to the pond from the compressor location. (Which is the way I always recommend one doit if at all possible.) Outside shelters tend to be more maintenance and "messing around" in our winters. We can push air 1000 ft if the tubing is sized properly.
bc - Bob Lusk has taken over the "driver seat & controls" of Pond Boss mag. He has new things planned. Sit tight, and watch him in action for awhile. Then re-evaluate the situation.
Lets give him a chance and I think for everyone to participate here they should be required to subsciebe to the PBoss magazine. Inexpensive fun and it's probably the BEST all-around source of good sound pond mgmt knowledge / information .
Some of the topics that you mentiiond above have been discussed in past articles of Pond Boss. Bob may revive and enhance some of old articles by providing updates and more detailed information. New things are always happening.
Check out the Product Sources section on the "forum home" (this page top right). I have created a Table of Contents or indexes for several of the back issues of Pond Boss magazine where I list the titles of articles and I often include a brief article description. I will be adding indexes for more issues later this winter when I get more time.
Cody,
good point about not 24/7 in the north. Man I would be out of businees up there with my lack of knowledge. If you do not run the comprssor 24/7 here it is tough to destratify the pond. I'm sure in some situations here you could run with less time, but seems too risky for me to recommend that. I have a client fairly close to me with diffuser. When I get another full timer on staff I will do some water quality this summer and test out diff run times. Thanks for the correction.
I agree that the farther south one goes the more the aerator has to run to overcome the additional surface heating of the pond. Run times are also dependent on: 1. how big the pond is, 2. tempeature difference between the top and bottom 3. how many acres of water per diffuser, 4. how big the diffuser is and 5. how much air each diffuser is getting. All these things (plus a few more) affect how much and how fast water can be mixed.