I have seen a reference to a person ( possibly a lady ) on PB in the past who is somewhat of an expert on pond aeration. I am not looking for a salesperson but rather a counselor who can advise me and give me some idea of costs and systems available. Any help ?

I believe you may be talking about Sue Cruz maybe?? Hang in there she'll holler at you on this post maybe. Or do a search for her you will be able to find her on the site.

RC

.
Shelby, Sue Cruz is a sales person for Vertex.
You have a large pond/lake - if so why do you need aeration?
Wind action is good aeration for larger bodies of water IMO.
I would talk to Todd Overton, who is experienced with large water bodies.
IIRC, Overton is also a Vertex dealer, but you would get the perspective of a fisheries biologist.

There are options available for aeration that I have experience, either bottom diffuser system or surface aeration, each very effective based on need, single or in combination.

I have Vertex bottom diffuser products that I am very pleased with to prevent stratification and Kasco surface aeration for maximum oxygenation.

My aeration experience is both good and bad with a 2 acre pond, but not qualified to address aeration needs for your larger water body.

George Glazener

I do know that Sue/Vertex have computer programs that can do calculations on an individual pond basis.

Hi Shelby County~ I'd be happy to help you out! I don't like to think of my self as a "sales" person. My degree is in Fisheries and Wildlife Management and I would never sell something for the sake of making a sale. I am fortunate to work for a great company that manufactures an excellent product that sells itself. I am here to guide pond owners and managers toward the appropriate size aeration system for their lake or pond based on our scientific research. If you would like, please PM me the details of the lake or pond you are interested in aerating.

Sue is an excellent resource! Definitely take her up on the offer. My products I got through Sue and Vertex were first rate.

Shelby, get all of the PondBoss experts help that you can obtain – they are good folks and have been very helpful to me over the years.
But realize that most folks outside our area do not understand the extreme heat and drought conditions that we endure in Texas.

They will ask for average water depths and surface acreage to calculate water volume daily circulation numbers for destratification – not for aeration requirement.
Averages are not adequate to properly design a bottom diffuser system with Texas water volume variations that we normally have in our pond/lakes.

The reason I mentioned aeration options other than bottom diffuser systems such as Vertex products, is that I had a major fish kill in our severe drought of 2011 that could nave been avoided had I been properly informed.
Perhaps I missed it, but I knew nothing about surface aeration such as Kasco and since PondBoss does not allow any posts other than PB advertisers, I felt that I had not been properly advised.
Ask the Vertex vendors to discuss other aeration options available to you.

You likely have nooks and cranny coves and inlets with varying water depths that may require flexible approach.

I wish I were closer to observe your lake – I have a geoscience career background with understanding of soils and water as well as rocks.
That’s why I suggested getting a fisheries biologist on site to advise aeration requirements. Had I not had that resource available to me I likely would have had another fish kill this past summer – a Kasco surface aerator was advised in addition to bottom diffuser system an it saved my pond this summer.
Good luck,
George

Thanks to all of you folks for the replies. I am just starting to realize that there are no simple answers. You folks amaze me with your knowledge and concern. I know where to go for resources and advice now. Sue Cruz, I will be in contact soon.
Tom Sterling

You're kidding, right?

I'm not a Pond Boss advertiser and I've made dozens of posts on aeration, including the one that's archived called "Aeration simplified". I've known Bob Lusk for pushing ten years and he has never, EVER once said that posts can only be made on this forum by advertisers. I would say that a full 95-98 percent of the posts on this forum are not by Pond Boss advertisers. In this case, it is you who is misinforming other members.

Here is a example from 10-02-2005

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=2967&Number=30977#Post30977

When you say you were not properly advised, are you implying that it is the "obligation" of the members here to properly advise you, George? Don't blame others for your fish kill. A simple five minute search on my part revealed several posts on using surface agitation to increase DO levels in a pond.

It is YOUR obligation to gather as much information as possible, and make an informed decision.

OK Bruce, my apologies – I missed this one – I was a pond rookie in 2005 for sure, but why didn’t you tell me about this during PB conference at Arlington when I just had a fish kill and was advised on the way by my son.
Guess it was because of our near miss accident at the airport when I picked you up to attend the conference.

We didn’t talk about aeration when I spent the day taking you striper fishing on Lake Texoma – think it was all about fun and fishing that day.

My main point in sharing my experience about aeration on the forum is to give a heads up to Texas pond folks suffering extreme heat and drought conditions to folks that are undergoing these challenges.

I constantly state on this forum that I don’t give advice and only share my experience – which I have a very good track record managing Texas drought ponds.
“In this case, it is you who is misinforming other members”.
I resent the disrespectful tone of your message – it is my understanding that as a moderator you are serving as a delegate of Mr. Lusk.

George Glazener

For info I know that Sue has extensive experience in drought stricken and even burned up areas including specifically Texas. Vertex has good products and has been an exemplary Forum citizen (supports PB and follows the Forum Rules wrt sales activities).

Kasco has good products and Bob Robinson with them is a friend and fishing buddy. They are also PB supporters and play by the rules.

In my many years of managing waters and helping others (favors not in the business) I have been personally responsible for killing a lot of fish. They were my mistakes and not caused by others. If I did not know enough it is on me - not this Forum.

Bruce, I agree with you 100%.

George, unless Bruce was managing your ponds, it isn't up to Bruce to make you aware of all the aeration possibilities. It's up to you, as a pond owner to spend the time to do your own research if you don't want to hire a pond management company.

Quote George:
"They will ask for average water depths and surface acreage to calculate water volume daily circulation numbers for destratification – not for aeration requirement.
Averages are not adequate to properly design a bottom diffuser system with Texas water volume variations that we normally have in our pond/lakes."
True. But the calculations are just like putting date into a computer, if the correct date isn't furnished or inputted, then the results will be incorrect. I'll bet the bottom diffusion aeration system that was spec'd out would be different if you told that aeration company that your water volume fluctuated "X" amount, and that you had "X" amount of BOD in that pond.

"The reason I mentioned aeration options other than bottom diffuser systems such as Vertex products, is that I had a major fish kill in our severe drought of 2011 that could nave been avoided had I been properly informed."

George, who was managing your pond? Bruce or you/your son?

"Perhaps I missed it, but I knew nothing about surface aeration such as Kasco and since PondBoss does not allow any posts other than PB advertisers , I felt that I had not been properly advised."

Completely untrue. You are posting here, aren't you? NOT all members are advertisers.

Did you know that there are surface agitator systems other than Kasco?

Ask the Vertex vendors to discuss other aeration options available to you. You likely have nooks and cranny coves and inlets with varying water depths that may require flexible approach.

George, I agree 110%. In BOW's that are shaped in such a way that vertical water movement won't move all the water without many air stations, there are more options than just one system.

I'm doing just that in an 18ac BOW for a HOA. They have experienced summer fish kills 2 out of the past 3 years. The system that I'm bringing in front of the HOA Board of Directors is a hybrid system, with both bottom difffusion air stations and surface agitatiors for the much shallower fingers or coves.

This statement above is being overlooked by many.



And yet other statements are dwelled upon.
Sometimes we write words that aren't the best ones to be used.
None of us are perfect.
Just saying.......

Greetings, Pond Boss forum friends and fans!
Reading through this thread, I see good information and passionate folks delivering it...along with a couple of phrases that are a little off the mark.
I try hard not to be politically correct, so I'll shoot it straight...one of the most fascinating facts about this forum, since Day 1, has been its people. We come from a variety of backgrounds and experiences. I embrace those differences, even though I don't necessarily agree with some of the advice and/or opinions.
The forum is designed for people to have a friendly exchange of ideas to help each other become better stewards of land and water.
I think George has been one of our best, long time members and contributors. So has Bruce.
George's advice is solid, as he is. At the same time, he's off base a little bit with his "advertiser" statement. I interpret that statement to mean that I only allow paying advertisers the opportunity to solicit sales, which is true. That's not quite what his words said. As far as advice goes, anyone can offer advice. It's up to each of us to interpret what that advice means and if it helps us, use it. If not, pass on it. Caveat emptor. And, your 10 moderators work hard to be sure that good advice and quality professionals offer the best information, products and services. Just for clarity, I can't allow non-paying companies to solicit sales here, for several reasons. First, I protect those people who support Pond Boss financially. Second, uncontrolled solicitation inevitably yields to unscrupulous behaviors from solicitors...and that damages our reputation. So, I stand behind that decision and will defend it.
Thanks to each of you who defend, protect and offer great advice on the forum.

I see this all the time and with Emails at work. With Emails or texts or even posts you can not really easily get emotion across and text can easily be misconstrued.

It could be one persons job to put out Email fires on a day to day bases. I tell everyone if you do not like what you read in an Email make a phone call. You know that thing we had to do before Email?

Like stated above a forum is a great tool but best not taken to seriously.

Now I am going to go have a snickers because I just don't feel like my self.

Cheers Don.

Yeah if only Pond Boss advertisers could give advise I guess I would be in trouble! As my air system I have many don't like or care for but I still give out advise on it and it still is working for me and others I know too. Like other mods have said just do your best to say or tell that person you are NOT an expert and your just giving out advise based on your expierence. Folks need to know this and really should assume it unless you have told them otherwise. Nothing is for certain in the world of ponds.

RC

Maybe we could make allowances for a glitch or two as a member approaches ninety.

Well guys,I am not a professional in anything but opinions. So this is my personal opinion. When I first read the threads on this subject I could see how some of what was said could be taken the wrong way by several parties. I have seen many misspell, miss-state,and others have made a joke or otherwise tried to make it a little easier to swallow a corrective statement(s). I am in my 50's and am somewhat thick skinned so my corrections for my misstatements or lack of knowledge on a particular subject does not mean a hill of beans one way or another.
IMH-OPINION,it is one thing for a somewhat newbie(like me) to get a bur under their saddle and drop out. Not good necessarily, but hey, it happens.
It is completely different, IMHO when a long term, Maybe or maybe not a moderator,ambassador,correspondent,or really anyone who knew or knows George1,had read the comment(s) that was out of character,stop and just pm'ed or even called him to kinda work it out. IMHO, It is sad a 90+ year old, long term contributor to this site that has at least in my mind given opinions/advice to many a thread, is rebuked in the public eye.
IMHO I feel there was an injustice that went a bit to far with those who control the PB forum and not only my current thread, but this whole subject should stop and be deleted.
I am still going to be here and present my opinion(s0. So, in another 30 or so years when I am in my 90's I would hope we could overlook some miss statement I might make due to my filter not working as well as others or whatever.My filter is already plugged somewhat anyway!
There is very little to learn hear(these threads) other than you better watch what you write, no matter if it is out of character or not.
I do not know if this can be wound back and George1 can or will come back, but I think PB lost something here and surly gained nothing.
I am going to get off my box.

You're right, mpc.

From now on, I pledge to let George's posts stand on their own merit.

I don't make that pledge and George knows that - he is a close friend.

George knows , while many here don't, that my (mod)job is like that of a doctor - our first rule is to do no harm (not let posts stand if they could harm others who don't have the knowledge). Note George's post is a corollary of this rule. That is one of the strongest PB rules and has from day one been enforced by many other than mods. If you come on and post wrong stuff that could harm others it should be challenged or corrected or a warning posted. Not saying George did this.

There are no passes to this rule. It can be done nicely and with class but our duty is to the readers (entire PB family) not to our posting buddies. That is what Bruce did and I stand with him on that. If I did less George would be ashamed of me and chastise me - believe it.

I disagree....I think it's good for the forum as a whole to expose, and then explain, (as ewest has done), the core operating principles once in a while. It's easy to forget where we've come from (as a forum), what it took to get here, and what it continues to take to maintain the desired position, which in this case is what I feel to be the premier pond/lake/fish/water based forum anywhere, period.

Who would have thought that a thread titled "Aeration for a 6A pond" would lead to this? I'm not going to rehash this, but there have been some persuasive points made by some very smart people. I do hope that George is reading this and comes back when he wants to. Life is too short for friendships to be frayed - regardless of who is right or wrong.

Thanks Randy !

Thought for the day.

Its not what is behind us or in front of us that matters , all that matters is what is within us !

Look inside and seize the day !

I have watched this thread and the other thread now since last night when I got back to civilization and I really had to just stop and consider all of the ideas and statements and from where they came. I did not have the wisdom to add anything to the conversation so I just thought about it until I read this mornings posts.

This is one of the best groups of people I have ever worked with, and felt closer to, short of my real family. I have traveled to help some of my pond boss friends and I have invited them to my farm to gather and and share good times and ideas. I love that I can "live" here and get advise from others while I share my experiences.

I read this thread and I see all four sides clearly now. Everyone was right to a degree. Eric was absolutely correct about both the ideas and reminding us to remain professional as we call our family members out on a BS statement. That said, I believe George was trying to discuss both surface and bottom diffused aeration and the different purposes they serve. Did he do it right, you be the judge.

Mike's and Tony's statements were also a great reminder as to the family spirit here. We always forgive, that's what families do. We did loose part of our family. In time we will all move on, its the nature of life. Allen and I will still be George's friend, that is not going to change and the rest of you will still see George in my postings because he is still invited to be a part of my life.

Warts and all, this is still a family, it is what makes PondBoss great. George has lived more than any normal 5 men. He has been told to get his affairs in order twice because of cancer. He buried more friends by the age of 20 than most of will ever have to do. He has been there through some of the greatest geological explorations in history. I just hope when I get to 89 I can still contribute as much as he does. But with all that said, he still does not get a pass, I guarantee he would not give one if he saw BS, but he would forgive.

I would not have George any other way, his passion for teaching and passing on his experiences is part of his foundation. Without it, he is just another fishing buddy holding a flyrod.


Shelby County,

You asked one of the age old questions. Should I do something for my pond or not, the real answer depends on the results you want and from where you are starting. Bottom diffused aeration circulates water bringing up stagnate water to the surface where mother nature can clean it up some and add O2 with normal wind action. This process destratifies the water column and allows your fish to inhabit deeper waters. Surface aeration adds O2 directly into the water because of its ability to expose large surface areas of water directly to the air with direct contact which allows for near instantaneous O2 transfer to that surface water. If you want to expand the envelope of your pond, consider using both. If you want to clean the muck off the bottom, use bottom diffused, if you want to increase you O2 levels for bio-loading protection, use surface aeration. I am playing with both because I want to learn and I can afford to "play." I am convinced that aeration is the best thing you can do for your pond. No one system is best, that is why I am playing with both types.

There are many acceptable approaches to correcting a colleague's error. Tactless rebuke doesn't seem to be one of them, certainly not in this instance.

Brian thanks and a + for getting Shelby an answer.

george is a very, very skilled writer, which is sadly becoming a lost art.

Regardless, george chooses his words very carefully, and he means what he writes; in no way is he ambiguous in his writing!

He does not leave anything to misinterpretation.

Having said that, let's hold hands.

Now sing with me.........Kumbaya, my Lord. Kumbaya........

I was not going to dive in but here goes. Could a polite pm asking George to edit and reword his post differently not of sufficed. After reading through all this it seems like he was overly attacked and the people discovering forum today probably got a bad taste in their mouth reading through this thread. Just my 2 cents. Nothing personal on anybody involved.

Oh Well...

?????????????

I agree. Maybe George and the others involved can work it out via private message. I believe all those posting in this thread had good intentions, and that should be enough to mend fences or any hurt feelings. All I know is this place will not be the same without King George! Heck the guy has fish named after him!

George Glazener Hybrid Striped Bass!

?

Certainly proves that your first three sentences are correct, Sunil.

Kumbaya...

Lets just turn this one off and let things work out there own way.

Wise move, Eric.

Hey, this thread started off good.....

Can't we just start it over?

We should do a comprehensive aeration thread for the archives !

That's a great idea!

+1 on this for sure!! And a quick thanks in advance to who ever does it!!

RC

Should we start a new one, or should we springboard off of this? It would be a good starter.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...1&site_id=1

That archive is really good I have read it serveral times, but I was able to understand it which is nice! Keeping it somewhat simple is key and I think your good at that Bruce even though you could make it very complicated you dont! If it were me I would springbaord off of it for sure! Because I tell you one thing if that archive was 2 pages long or 6 I would have read it all!! Bruce if your doing the work on it thanks in advance for the info! It sure has helped me.

OK, let's go off the archived one for now.

Is this the kind of drama necessary to get El Matos re-engaged? Dude, you've been missed!

If so, you should see the dustup I'll likely create next week when I post my photos fishing with Senator Al Franken and the Directors of the EPA and Humane Society at Lusk Lodge 2. Tune in, Matos!

Isn't Pelosi supposed to attend also?

and some key PETA members???

While there's plenty of room at LL2 for these folks, not sure they'd enjoy their visit. I envision several new landscaping berms around the Lodge shortly after their arrival.

TJ, are you saying there would be a lime shortage if they came to visit?

Nancy is the only reason on this planet that ED exists!!!

Bruce Lets go off of that old thread or at least start the archive with it.

Maybe toss compressor and component stuff in the mix with some reliable math?

Bruce you going to start the archive ?