A big shoutout to Bob Lusk and all the moderators here at Pond Boss for creating and maintaining an excellent playground for all to discuss, share, and learn more. Although we don't get involved in many discussions, we always make time to check in on the forum to see what everyone is up to and follow the threads. The progress at your ponds, the collaborative innovations, the stories, and the camaraderie this forum has is truly inspiring.

We spend a lot of time in one-on-one conversations with customers, pond and lake managers, and pond owners discussing all aspects of fish feed. Just like this forum, these conversations lead to great questions. With that, we wanted to start this thread to provide answers to questions you have.

Our goal isn't to make anyone change what they are doing, switch feed providers, or prove someone wrong. There is no ill-will between Optimal and other feed companies. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Growing up with the odd passion for fish food, we looked up to those in the fish feed industry and still do. Who would have thought, as a small company not even big enough to field our own baseball team, that we would have been able to enter an industry alongside the best of them with such a fantastic cast of customers. I believe Bob could attest to this; there is plenty of fish to feed, and just seeing how far we can push the boundaries of what is possible in our ponds is the ultimate goal of why we do what we do.

With that, we are not going to try to sell you Optimal with our answers. Instead, we want to provide our background and knowledge and answer as many of your feed questions as possible. Hopefully, some of the answers will lead to more questions. I look forward to having some fun and learning together.

Thanks again to all of you for contributing to such a great resource!
Nathan Schulz
Optimal Fish Food

Thank you for the post hopefully there will be some interesting questions and answers. And I hope we can conduct it with respect to all that respond. And we try to keep answers so that those of us that don't hold several doctoral degrees can understand

Thanks Nathan/Dustin!!

I'll throw out the first question, because I get asked this quite frequently, and I'll keep it in a more general theme. The 2nd question is more detailed.

Will Yellow Perch and Hybrid Striped Bass grow just as well on regular "general" fish food or should they have food specifically for them?

I know this doesn't apply to a pond setting, i.e. it's hard to know the answer with fish in a pond where they they have natural food to eat, but is there a way to determine how much of the food the fish is actually utilizing and how much of the food (when I say food I mean nutrients in the food) is passing through the fish and is not digestible?

I'd like to offer some subtle improvements to this question. The conversion of anything a fish eats, whether it eats a formulated feed or natural prey item, is less than perfectly efficient. It requires energy to assimilate food and so some of the food is digested just to provide the energy. The waste product of this conversion to energy is not food that is not digestible. Instead the wastes are products of oxidation which is part of the digestion process. For protein, the products are primarily ammonia and carbon dioxide both of which are expelled as water soluble wastes. The better question is how much of the feed is assimilated because everything the fish doesn't retain leaves the fish.

I'll throw a question out. What are the chances my red ear sunfish will visit my feeder frequently with optimal junior if they haven't been pellet trained in cages? They are small 2-4" and newly stocked.

Russel????!!!!!!!!!

You're back to posting after...like 12 years!!!!!

Miss you!!!

Hi Sunil, yes, happily made it back! Been thru several properties over the years, last one didn't have sizable water and really missed this place. I'm starting over again with a new property and a 3 acre muddy pond (for now). Took me a very long time to find what I wanted in my price range, but finally have it.

Battling muddy water to start, looked like coffee with a lot of creamer in it, little to no visibility. Have visibility to about 6" now with another round of Alum/Gypsum this week...working with small doses monitoring PH but underestimated what 27 acre feet would take. So far 700 lbs alum/500 lbs gypsum in. Will apply 300 lbs alum the 17th followed by 800 lbs gypsum on the 18th, wish me luck

Awesome!!!

Welcome back.

Eastland - Hello again. Your pond with muddy water. You should first try to figure out what is making it cloudy. Did you do a jar test? Results can tell you a lot. If the stuff settles out the turbidity is being created within the pond; fix that cause first before wasting money on a treatment. If it doesn't settle then it will be cleared with gypsum / alum.

For the Optimal folks, I have a question that so far nobody seems to have investigated. I hear different opinions from smart people, not agreement.

Here's the question: What is the impact of night feeding? I've been told this helps cut down on bird stealing food (geese are bad about this) and birds eating the fish that show up for feed (herons in particular). BG supposedly feed the same at night as during the day.

I've also been told that LMB have a vision advantage over BG when it's dark, so the BG are more reluctant to come out & feed at night.

What are your thoughts? Have you folks ever done any trials on night feeding?

I can tell you from ice fishing at night that BG do little feeding after the sun sets. Ask anyone that crappie fishes how many BG they catch at night vs how many they catch during the day. They might feed when there is a full moon out and there is some light. I've Bass fished at night, typically with a black jitterbug and it works, but in shallow water. You need something that makes noise or sets up vibrations so the fish can find the lure with its lateral line.

I have caught LMB at night on Texas-rig plastic worms bouncing off the bottom.

I think we only caught bass like this in the summer(?)

I have no idea how the bass located the worms, but we would keep fishing until the strikes ceased.

Optimal folks have conducted many feed studies and are very solid with trials producing 1.15 to 1. Could we say that .15 is "leaving the fish"? would this be a safe assumption? I know it's not that simple but 1.15 to 1 leaves little unusable content unless eating-the process of.. uses "X" energy regardless forage/feed present.

1.15 to 1 conversion rate is remarkable. However, in a natural pond setting that does not mean that only .15 of the feed leaves the fish. After all, they eat bugs & fish along with the pelleted feed, so gain weight from that as well. True conversion rate can only be determined by artificial situation where fish only eat the pellets.

If true conversion rate really is 1.15 to 1, that's by far the best number I've ever come across.

Kenny, this is wrong on a couple of levels but first is the one where you have been unable to repeat their results in single pass tests with YP and BG. I'm not saying they didn't get 1.15 to 1 but we do not have context. Perhaps this is with the fry food with fry to fingerling sized fish which have high growth rates and feed low on the feed chain even able to re-consume waste feed and gain. There are several in pond studies which findings indicate that feed begins to benefit the growth of BG once a length of 4" or greater is attained. Growth of YOY year BG was otherwise not statistically different and the same goes for the energy content of YOY (something which suggests they have similar nutrient profiles). Furthermore, in pond FCRs regularly are below 1 when growing fry to fingerlings (eg CC fingerlings on 35% feed). This is not the case when growing juvenile and adult fish. This is primarily because they don't have as high a specific consumption ... something which greatly reduces feed efficiency.

Feed is relatively dry with "as fed" water content somewhere around 10%. BG water content is 7.5 to 8.2 times that of feed. Since the water comes from the pond, it doesn't come from the feed. In order to understand the retention of nutrients one must understand the dry weight conversion (dry/dry). So even at 1 to 1 with the generous assumption that BG are 75% water the FCR is 3.6 to 1. But this doesn't really tells us the nutrients entering the pond. To understand this we need to understand the nutrient profile of the feed and the nutrient profile of the fish. Fish vary but the dry weight of BG is about ~72% protein. Assuming a fry feed at 48% and assuming 10% water out of bag for the feed, the protein assimilation efficiency of feed in the dry weight of the fish would be around 41.66%. Lots of ifs there and I have some ocean front property in Arizona for any willing to buy that this example will happen on a broad scale in his pond. Conversions on the order of 1 (dry/wet) result by secondary utilization of 1st pass nutrients. The good news is that feed waste nutrients will work their way up the food chain and put weight on fish, in some cases (like fry) even waste feed will be consumed and additional gain made. The bad news is that one can't rely on all the rosiest assumptions for his pond. The first pass will be much less efficient in the larger fish eating it and unlike water managed for the production of food fish, there will competition for waste nutrients by macrophytes which do not participate meaningfully to a BG's food chain.

The inefficiencies of conversion applies to everything any animal eats. A general rule of thumb is that each consumer trophic level requires 10 fold from the trophic level below. With feed it is more along the lines of 5 fold (dry/dry). If the fish feed were as nutritious as natural foods, this number would probably be much closer to 2.5 where one is eliminating the need to chase down prey and replacing it with the most lower energy expenditure of competing for feed. So a food made from 100% fish meal is probably around twice as efficient as the feed you are buying. Yet even if you feed 100% fish meal feed more than half of the nutrients would still exit the fish.

Makes my head hurt.

Think I will just keep feeding for the fun of it rather than performance.

Just got home yesterday after being gone for three and a half months. Drove the 4-wheeler around the pond once (amongst the three foot tall grass on the dam that needed mowed a month ago) and fish wakes coming toward the shore. They have not forgot what the dinner bell is. Guess I need to get some feed bought. At least the fish think I do.

Glad to hear you made it back safe and sound!

Have fun feeding your hungry fishes. (I suspect you will not be able to resist them "begging" you for food!)

What’s next for Optimal? Any major changes on the horizons or any technological advancements to improve the products? Your bg feeds are what I prefer these days with the style of feeding I’m doing and they seem to be working great, just wondering what’s in the future, if anything.

I've been using Optimal for a few years now. At first, one of the main reasons was ease of ordering from Hoosier Pond Pro's website, but since then, I've had pleasing results. I'm feeding Handthrow and Bass and have just ordered some of the 4.5mm random lengths.

Years ago, on advice from a friend, I would soak all the Handthrow (and AQ Largemouth) for about 10 minutes before feeding. Eventually, I stopped the pre-soak process. Over the course of a year, I felt I lost a lot of LMB participation in feeding on those 1" pellets.

I've gone back to pre-soaking now, and am going to do that for all the feed sizes I use.

I'm also on the cusp of incorporating sinking feed.

So, questions for Optimal are: 1) Do you feel the pre-soaking or 'hydrating' of feed is worth the effort? And 2) As a general rule, is sinking feed at all more 'healthy' for our fish?

Appreciate you guys!!

I love Optimal Handthrow, as do my LMB & HSB. Giant BG try but can't take it in. Haven't tried soaking but maybe that would help when temps are very hot or very cold.

To echo Sunil, I wish Optimal would come out with a 50/50 floating/sinking feed. Fewer carbs & fat in sinking means healthier, right? Geese would steal less food, herons get fewer opportunities to target surface feeding fish.

I realize this might mean a bit more cost per pound, as protein is more expensive than carbs & fat, but think many pondowners would respond positively.

Actually, Purina (and Bob Lusk)says 1.2 to 1 is very common, so I have no issues with 1.15 to 1. Now, fish free swimming in a pond vs caged can be 2 different things. Biomass of fish can change that as more fish means more competition and the most aggressive will grow way faster than normal
In my own trial I seen 1.43 to 1 but had I ran it longer I may have seen better results.
I have 4 trials I'm doing on my own for my own reasons right now, and on Saturday I finished my 11th bag of feed so far this year.
Some of these conversations about feeding have become competitive on so many levels it's almost confusing, and, there is argument that whatever feed you use is wrong and yet positive results are obtained.
Bottom line is if your fish eat it, are constantly above 100% WR, you've got a good combination of feed/pond organisms that will 99.9% of the time, meet your desires.
Several folks have helped me in many ways here on this forum but some of this has got to a point I don't want to participate anymore, not that I can provide the most useful information to anyone except those in the same locations/environment I have experience in, but the competitive nature of this has become uncomfortable and somewhat useless to what I believe most are here for.

Billy Bates: I just received some new production Optimal today that was just finished and bagged 5 days ago per Mark. Sounds like some lines are being tweaked a bit and will be back in stock shortly.

"Bottom line is if your fish eat it, are constantly above 100% WR, you've got a good combination of feed/pond organisms that will 99.9% of the time, meet your desires.
Several folks have helped me in many ways here on this forum but some of this has got to a point I don't want to participate anymore, not that I can provide the most useful information to anyone except those in the same locations/environment I have experience in, but the competitive nature of this has become uncomfortable and somewhat useless to what I believe most are here for."


Yeah, this is unfortunate, Kenny, but rest assured knowing that your contributions of knowledge and experience to the Forum are very valuable.

Feeding fish is fun!
I never thought I would get so much enjoyment out of it, the quite time right before dark or early in the morning just standing still flinging fish pellets out over the water and watching them eat it up.
It's almost therapeutic for me, I keep a bag of fish food in the car and stop by the pond before or after work four or five days a week if I can and just unwind as I feed them. Fun to see the fish and help them get fatter and I get to chill out.

As an empirical guy myself, completely agree observational results trump our theories. There's just so much complexity in the pond world, even in ponds from the same area, or the exact same pond from one year to the next!

Hope you choose to continue helping inform us.

Me too. I was never fond of fishing before building a pond. I did it a little as a youngster then did it some with my kids when they were young. But was never an angler at heart. Built the pond for something to look at out our back door. Fish were originally an after thought. Then if I stocked fish, it seemed only appropriate that I should fish for them. Kind of got to where it was an enjoyable pastime and we do eat quite a bit of fish. So fishing was also an afterthought. As was feeding fish. I found Pond Boss Forum and feeding fish seemed like the thing to do.

I would say that feeding fish is as enjoyable if not more so for me as fishing for them. The only "pet" I have the patience to semi-take care of - because they mostly take care of themselves. I have been debating whether to even put out my automatic TH feeder this year. May just hand feed when I get around to it. Growing the biggest fish is not my main goal (although I would not turn down seeing a 2# BG at least once). Aesthetics and casual relaxation are the main priorities. Hand feeding my fish seem to fulfill that goal.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Agree 100 percent. When building the pond, I was thinking fishing. Now I find more pleasure watching them feed. Fascinating critters, endlessly entertaining along with the other pond denizens, such as wood ducks, mallards, geese, turtles, eagles, kingfishers, &!xx cormorants, woodpeckers, deer (they like the water), dragonflies, you name it.

Thanks for all the questions so far! We are having fun putting together responses to the questions, and hopefully will have some up on here soon!!

Thank you for doing this.

Thanks again for all the questions, We will attempt to answer all the questions with video answers. Once we figure out how to make better videos; the answers will get better We thought this would be a fun way for some of you to see what goes on at a feed mill and our research centers.

We hope you enjoy our videos! At Optimal Fish Food, we strive every day to create feeds that will increase growth, health, and longevity for your fish, but at the end of the day, we are all about growing memories that will last a lifetime. As little kids, on weekend visits to our grandpa's house, he would show us how to shock up worms and we would grab some of his rods and walk to the creek in hopes of catching a fish. Unfortunately, our grandpa wasn't around to see the start of Optimal Fish Food, but it's because of memories like that, which is why we do what we do.

If your goal is to relax by your pond and throw out a handful of feed to watch your fish eat while you enjoy a sunset, or a place to take your grandkids so they can catch their first bluegill, or if your goal is to try to grow a trophy bass then keep doing it and keep having fun. With so many variables at play in a community like Pond Boss, where everyone has different fish, ponds, goals, budgets, and locations, there is no perfect answer for everyone. What works great for one might not work great for another, but having a place to share our experiences, build a community, and grow memories is, in the end, why we are all here.

Every one of you has experiences, theories, and ways you go about enjoying your hobbies, your ponds, and your fish, and we want you to continue doing that.

This industry has been growing rapidly, and innovation and research are constantly being developed, reviewed, and put to the test. As a result, theories around aquaculture and fish management from decades ago have evolved and have been built upon year over year. We like to compare this to a great car mechanic who retired in 1970 with a vast knowledge of fixing a vehicle with four wheels and a combustible engine. Still, if they completely stopped learning about its evolution, they would have difficulty fixing a car built in 2022. Yes, some of the fundamentals would be the same, but I'm sure that mechanic would be wide-eyed and amazed to see where the car is today. Much the same is true in this industry; the evolution of ingredients, formulations, fish nutrition, and feed extrusion has become far more sophisticated from decades ago and developed layers upon layers to the point that the pioneers in the industry would be amazed to see the science has continued to evolve.

With that, we hope you enjoy our attempts at answering some questions. We hope they spark new questions. We hope we get better at making videos. And We hope you continue having fun at your ponds and continue to grow memories that will last a lifetime!

Question: Will Yellow Perch and Hybrid Striped Bass grow just as well on regular "general" fish food, or should they have food specifically for them?

Answer:
Short answer - No. In order to optimize the growth potential of a fish, it is essential to meet the minimum nutritional requirements. Each species of fish, and each of their life stages, has different requirements. If "general" fish food does not contain the proper nutrition to hit the minimal requirements of the fish, then the fish will not grow as well.

Question: What is next at Optimal?

Answer:
One new thing we are about to launch is our line of Premium Starter Feeds. This line has eight sizes and three formulations.

Question: Any technical advancements at Optimal?

Answer:
Always, this will be something we will cover in multiple videos. This video briefly talks about the pulverizer we use in the manufacturing process.

Question: Is sinking feed healthier?

Answer:
Not necessarily. All pelleted feeds have requirements within a formulation for them to be able to hold their shape and handle being thrown into water. A feed can be designed to float or sink based on the setup and operation of the extruder much more than based on the formulation of the feed.

Coming Soon:
Question: Is there a way to determine how much of the food the fish is actually utilizing and how much of the food is passing through the fish and is not digestible? How much of that utilized food is assimilated?
Question: What is the impact of night feeding?
Question: What happens to the difference in FCR?
Question: What are the chances my red ear sunfish will visit my feeder frequently with optimal junior if they haven't been pellet trained in cages?
Question (ongoing): Additional changes, improvements, and pipelines for Optimal?
Question: Do you feel the pre-soaking or 'hydrating' of feed is worth the effort?

Thank you!!

To the Optimal crew: Thank you for putting this all together, I know this is very time consuming and I'm sure I not only speak for myself, but thank you for taking this on. It should clear up many misconceptions.

Great videos! Very good public relations and informative advice from Optimal. I shows Optimal cares about their consumers. Thank you very much for creating the videos. I am looking forward to your answers of more questions.

Thanks so much, Dustin. Always a pleasure to deal with you & Optimal, just got six more sacks of your feed. My LMB and HSB absolutely love Handthrown chunks.

I asked about sinking/floating due to geese stealing pellets. Given what I've heard here, lots of other pond owners have the same issue. Some floating is important to check on fish response, plus it's a blast to watch, but stupid birds take more than I wish.

This same issue motivates question about night feeding.

Fed some Optimal starter #4 for the first time this evening. I hydrated it for approximately 45 mins in a old pie pan. Out of all the feeds I have tried so far, several Aquamax products, Optimal blue gill and blue gill jr, and cargill sport fish and floating pond fish feeds, this was the most aggressive I have seen my bluegill attack a feed so far, whatever is in it they sure did go crazy for. I always test what I feed both hydrated and dry and compare the consumption ratio from what I can observe, at least.

Just got my Optimal order delivered.

Wife and I fed some of the hand toss to my SMB in the SMB pond. Man did they tear it up! Hungry fish. I had been hand feeding some smaller pellets the last week so they were accustomed to coming. When we rode up on the 4 wheeler I could see the wakes coming. Fed some in one spot then as we drove around the pond throwing out some more we could see the fish wakes following us part of the way around the pond.

Optimal Hand Toss feed is fun.

My solution to the geese eating the feed is to make sure the geese don't visit the pond, and if they do, it's for a very short time.

My wife likes them for their beauty & antics. The only way I could terminate them with extreme prejudice is if she never found out. Some things just aren't worth the risk!

Thank you for providing such valuable information to us and taking the time to produce the video responses. I already feel like I'm getting more value in each bag I purchase- like getting an awesome toy in a box of cereal.

My question deals more with the amount of feed and frequency of feeding the fish. How can I determine if I am feeding the correct amount each time and how often should I feed? In other words, what is the "optimal" feeding plan so that I can maximize this investment in my pond without wasting product?


Dean

Then maybe have the wife buy the fish feed?

If esshup keeps submitting such brutally efficient solutions to pond problems, we may have to start a new "evil genius" sub-forum category.

Maybe there is a reason why I'm not married?? LOL

Dean, I can't speak for Dustin, but feed what the fish will clean up in no more than 15 minutes. It's just like microwave popcorn, when the popping slows down, ya better quit.

The answer to the when, how much and feeding strategy is goal specific. Goals, like the pond owners here, run the gamut from aquaculture ponds to no feeding at all.

Great thread!