I've been feeding Aquamax Largemouth since last fall. Here's one of my bass I caught last night.

OK Ryan,dont keep us in suspence.It looks in great shape,but how big and what did it wiegh?Did you feed train em and if so,how long did it take.We are eagerly awaiting more details

I finally remembered to take the camera out to the pond but forgot the tape measure. The fish was only about 15" but seemed fat and healthy. They were on feed from the hatchery. They'd been on Purina Gamefish Chow up and doing OK but they've really fattened up on the ALM.

Looks nice and healthy Ryan.

I bought two AquaPro 75 feeders this spring. I've been fairly aggressive on the AquaMax 600, and fortunately the LMB have been hammering the stuff. Here is a photo of my boy with a bass in May. The second photo is August. These fish were stocked in Sept 2006. Needless to say, I've been very impressed with the AquaMax results.

-Scott

Uhhhh, yeah....

I'd say there's a slight difference.

Bruce- have you had results with the AquaMax 400 on Bluegill? I've been throwing the stuff at them but they seem more interested in the 600 even though it's bigger and they can barely eat it. It's amazing, they are in fighting with the Bass and Cats for the stuff. I'd like to grow them very big as well.

-Scott

Actually, my bluegill's favorite is the Aquamax Grower 500. They like the 400, but they spend a lot of time for the nutrition that they're getting. They love the 600 too, but any bluegill under 7.5 inches seem to be left out. I think the ideal may be a mixture of 500 and 600, with some hand feeding of 400 in the areas where the little guys hang out.

Dang Scott you ought to sent those photos to Aquamax as before and after photos. In the first photo neither the fish nor the boy look happy. In the second photo both the fish and the boy look happy. I guess the moral of the story is fat bass make people happy.

Yes, I was amazed when I compared the two photos. Thanks for the insight, Bruce. I will get some of the 500 and start mixing the 400/500/600.

Scott

Ryan, This may have been covered in another post but I still need to ask.

Did you buy feed trained LMB or did you just start feeding standard LMB? If you just fed your standard LMB could you describe how you got them to start taking feed? Do you have any other fish in the pond that eat the LMB feed (I ask because I'm pretty sure the CC in my pond would be all over the LMB feed)? Any advice, observations, etc... would be helpfull.

Brett- I'm not sure what Ryan did, but I purchased normal LMB, not the pellet trained. Not sure if this is helpful, but this is what has transpired on our pond. LMB were stocked in the fall of 2006. The next summer we started buying cheap dog food and throwing out hand fulls for fun. I think the the cats were the only ones eating the stuff, but can't be 100% certain. This spring we bought two AquaPro75 feeders and started feeding them AquaMax600. Additionally, the person building our cabin has been throwing in two buckets (two in the AM, two in the PM) of food. The cabin has both sides surrounded by 20' strips of gravel, so lots of LMB and BG hang out in this area. What I've noticed is in the beginning an occasional bass would come up and hit the stuff, but still it was mostly cats. Then after a month or so, the bass would be the first to hit the food (they pretty much hit it in less than 10 seconds after hitting the surface). After about 30 seconds, the cats would come in and push the bass out.

Of the two buckets we throw out, one bucket consists of the cheaper Purina Catfish food. This bucket we throw as far out as we can to get the cats started feeding first. Next, we throw in the AquaMax600 close to the cabin in smaller amounts (maybe split into thirds). This way it doesn't sit on the surface that long and the LMB can gobble it up quickly.

We've done this all spring and summer. Last week I noticed that now if you throw in two full buckets of AquaMax, the bass and cats are hitting the stuff and the bass no longer let let the cats push them out. In fact, it's mostly bass now that are feeding off the cabin.

We tried to have a catfish fry last weekend and caught 10+ bass before we caught a single cat! We were using the AquaMax pellets for bait. Probably need to switch to liver......

The reason we got the feeders was that I purchased 225 HSB this spring and wanted to get them feeding off the fish feeders. I had no idea the LMB would take to it. Ironically, I've yet to see a single HSB.

Scott

Thanks Scott, I guess it's worth a try. I just might have to buy a bag of LMB feed next spring. I already feed GFC to the BG and CC. I have a few LMB that come around while I'm feeding but they arent interested in the small pellets; I think they are picking off small BG that are feeding on the GFC.

Brett, I bought my LMB from a fish farm nearby. They had the bass in a big tank made from a grain bin ring with a liner. I'd guess that they were feeding them pellets. I started feeding high protein trout pellets the first two years then switched to GFC the next two. I would occasionally see LMB taking pellets but they seem to like the Aquamax largemouth much better as do the channel cats and hybrid stripers.

Below isn't a great representation since it was two different times of year and photo's aren't great but there is definitely a lot more meat on them now.

For comparison:

Before, May of 2007


After, September 2008

Is feeding necessary to achieve the above described improvemnet in the LMB population?
I ask this because I would rather not have to feed(expense,etc). BUT, would if it's the only practical way to achieve "good" growth. Or can these fish improve in condition solely by providing a "natural" forage-based food chain, assuming it might take longer?

David,
You can achieve that naturally, but it will take much longer and you will want to take out as many bass as you possibly can. Probably only will want about 50 per acre or less!

David, I could make a good case that feeding is cheaper than growing forage. If you google "Bob Lusk Feeding" you can find a lot of articles about feeding the forage and some about feeding the bass directly. It's not 100% necessary to feed to have a successful fishery but it sure helps.

Thanks n8ly & Ryan. I guess to continue the question, it seems to me that there's a progression of management issues that ultimately leads to a serious amount of money investment to achieve certain goals. What I mean is; if you feed for growth(Couple of feeders$600.00 + feed), then there is this nutrient overload/too many pounds of fish for pond size. The solution then seems to be aeration($4000-5000) for sizable pond. Even with all this if one is pushing the red-line, then a DO crash is a real possibility( I get this from reading Pond Boss threads)..See, I don't really know any of this from experience because I am just now getting to the spot where real numbers of fish are going into my pond next spring. But I am trying to sort it out & make good decisions. I just want to be able to catch some 3-5 lb bass & some bream in a couple of years...du

David, I'll leave the technical discussion for the experts, but when reading Pond Boss posts you have to keep in mind that many pond meisters here are striving for an optimal (or even above optimal) condition in their pond. Whether it be very high density numbers, or very large BG or large bass. For lack of a better phrase, they are pushing the boundary of their pond beyond what would probably occur in nature. That is very possible and a very healthy pond can be achieved but it will require a significant amount of management intervention including feeding, possibly aeration, definitely selective culling, etc, etc.

You can achieve your goal of being able to catch 3-5 pound bass and some bream without feeding and probably without any aeration. Many here have done that. Managing your fish population through tracking relative weight and fish population counts (using just fishing pole sampling) can work. At the conference this year Bob Lusk told me that probably the best management tool is to keep records of what you catch (relative weights and numbers of fish) and then adjust your culling strategy accordingly.

Many of us here don't feed (other than introducing some forage base) and don't aerate and have ponds that are very fun to fish. It may take longer to get larger bass and your pond may not have as high as a carrying capacity as one that receives active management but that does not mean that you cannot have a great pond without feeding. Please note that I am not in any way criticizing anyone that uses feeding or aeration or highly active pond management.

When reading this site you have to keep in mind that ultimately you need to use a pond management strategy that fits your budget and your time availability. Does that make any sense?

Very well put, Senhor Hasapond.

I will offer some experience from my 1/2 acre. The fish farms were recommending I stock 50 LMB. I stocked 25 LMB a year after stocking BG and FH minnows based on what I read here that a pond will support 100lbs per acre, 50lbs in my case or 25 2LBers. I knew I would have to remove some eventually to grow them larger and feed to help push them along. Probably the biggest mistake I've made is simply not being proactive enough in removing fish and instead reacted to problems once I saw effects. Fish only live so long and grow for that limited time so by waiting until I saw they were getting thin I've limited their potential.

It wasn't my intention to be in any way critical of feeding fish. One only has to look at your before and after photos Ryan to see that your management strategy is working wonders. The intention of my post was merely to point out that you can achieve a very fishing friendly pond without feeding. Many of us here don't have the resources (whether it be time or money) to commit to feeding their fish and accordingly have to resort to more "conventional" forms of pond management.

JHAP, thanks for the response. Yes it makes sense. I too know, from reading here, that really awesome fish can be raised by the guys who are willing to put out the effort, time, money etc to do so & I applaude them for that(a little jealous too) I'm just glad to hear those of us with less ambition can have a "reasonable" fishing hole.

JHAP, I didn't even know you and Theo had posted. It took me over an our to write and send what I posted. I had started orginally with the same thoughts as you (just not stated nearly as well) but switched gears because I really have no practical experience to offer with an unfed pond....and work kept interupting

I respect anyone willing to ask questions and share what they've learned no matter their methods or goals. Managing 2.5 acres is no doubt very different than mananging 1/2 acre. If my pond was 5 times the size it is, I would be seeking alternative methods too as opposed to supplementally feeding at the rate I am currently.

I was trying to stress that even by stocking bass at half the rate recommended by the fish farms and starting with a great forage base, it didn't take very long (3 years actually) for the LMB overeat their food source.

There are many paths to pond enlightenment.

Just some thoughts about cost and effort in pond mgmt. We have a 3/4 acre pond with approx 48 feed trained northern LMB (bought them that way), 16 Fla LMB (not feed trained), 50 HSB, 100's CNBG and Tilapia. We started stocking in Oct 2007. We hand feed about 3 lbs of AQMX 600 in one spot every night, then walk around the pond feeding AQMX 500 to the smaller fish. I don't mix the feed because the target audience for the 500 won't get in the area of the big guys. We aerate 24/7, and use well water to keep pond full (well is for the house also). The feed trained LMB, HSB, Tilapia, and CNBG have really grown, with LMB RW > 1.2, and some HSB now over 3 lbs (started at about 7 oz in Dec 2007).

All of this may sound like a lot, but it really isn't. I used the info on this site to build a very low cost aerator system. A GAST rotary vane pump (housed in simple plastic storage bin with vents), 9" membrane diffuser in homemade bucket support, and weighted 1" flexible PVC tubing. Total cost < $150 and draws less than 1 amp. Since the pond is at our home, I saved the feeder cost by hand feeding so I can keep an eye on things. The tilapia were a great investment. Bought 10 lbs for $100, and they really kicked the LMB weight up. Yes, there are a few days the fish go unfed b/c I have no feeder, but they don't seem to suffer any, and I still have that $600 in my pocket. All of my structure was obtained as "junk" from other people, and hurricane Ike provided a wealth of big limbs and stumps to collect around south Houston.

I have not removed any fish yet, as they are all less than 2 yrs old. I plan on reducing the number next summer as I catch LMB that have not grown well. The Fla LMB do not eat AQMX, but are still growing well b/c feeding the Tilapia and CNBG keeps them spitting out young'uns. I wont remove any of the Fla LMB as their purpose is to add good genes to pond.

What I am trying to say is that you don't have to spend a huge amount of money to have an above average pond, but just be willing to do a little hunting/research for bargains and spend some time managing the forage base. I certainly don't have umlimited funds, but this site can give you unlimited ideas.

Ryan, why do you think the bass overate their food source? I was under the impression that a RES/CNB forage base along with maybe TFS establishment & a few Tilapia every year would keep LMB & HS well fed with proper predator culling as needed...du

I stocked 25 BG the October of 2003 then 200 BG, 25 HBG, 15 CC and 10lbs of fatheads in March of 2004. I fed all summer and had tons of forage, a minnow trap would catch dozens of little fish in just a few minutes so the fall of 2004 I stocked 25 4" LMB. Everything was growing great. Bass were 12" and fat by the fall of 2005. I stocked tilapia as soon as the water warmed enough and had successful spawns in 2006 and 2007. In late July of 2006 I discovered several schools of Gizzard shad so early that August, 6"-7" HSB were added to cut down their numbers and keep them in check. I have been feeding pellets by hand once per day since the beginning. In 2007 I added an aeration system and began to notice that my bass weren't looking as fat and my minnow trap wasn't filling as quickly as in previous years so I started feeding Aquamax Largemouth that fall. This year I've been culling all bass that aren't showing good weight and have removed all but two channel cats.

David U, your impression is right. In my case, I think the lack in growth is/was combination of several factors. I have limited structure, basically 6 pallet stacks that have now mostly collapsed and two bowling ball sputniks (like porcupine fish attractors)and my pond is shaped almost like a bowl except for 1/3 is sort of a spawning shelf. There is no weeds. I didn't remove any of the LMB offspring from my original stocking, except for a few that died from swallowing hooks, until this year so I really have no idea how many are in there. The 15 channel cats quickly grew into large predators and were competing with the LMB as were the HSB and I could maybe even give a little credit to the HBG that are now around 10". This fall and winter, I'm going to start harvesting eating size male bluegill to encourage more spawning.

"Ryan, why do you think the bass overate their food source?" They overate their food source because that is what bass do. Bass are pigs! Most of us want large numbers of large fish in our ponds and just like Jeff said that doesn't usually happen in nature. So we push the limits because we want more and bigger. What Jeff is doing is probably safer and maybe even better but just like most people I want more and so I feed. I run the risks of a fish kill. Taking bass out of my pond is hard and so I run the risk of loving them so much I kill them all. David some of the best ponds that I have ever fished never fed their fish a single pellet but you can really ramp up the production by feeding them like Ryan is doing. I have never seen a fish in nature as fat as the ones that Cecil Baird is raising on pellets.

I hate it when that happens. I have yet to find a way to have money just arrive in the mail without actually doing anything.

While that is true, as Ryan stated a lack of protection (structure) in his pond probably severly limited the opportunity for his BG to survive. He has two significant predators, LMB and Channel Cat, both are eating machines and the lack of places for the fingerlings to hide probably made for easy hunting. Ryan's stragegy is working for him. Look at his fish - the relative weight of them is fantastic!




My management strategy is founded on the principals of lethargy. (Lethargy: a deficiency in mental and physical alertness and activity, sluggishness, drowsyness, dullness). It's not that I don't care, it's just that I live 500 miles from my pond. I can't feed, aeration is out of the question (no electricity on the property and I've looked into a solar aeration system and that cost big bucks and a windmill system doesn't seem to be a good option in my particular area). Like everyone else I want more fish and bigger fish but some of us don't have an option to have a hands on management approach. And the Lethargy Management Approach is not without it's faults. Last year (due to a series of unfortunate events) I didn't thin the Elodea out of my pond, it multiplied uncontrollably and when it died off it caused a massive fish kill. But that was through my negligence.

It's all about balance. You have to find a management strategy that will work in your life. As I said before, I'm not critizing a more hands on management approach, lord knows if I lived at the pond I'd be messing with it everyday, I'm simply saying that a person can have a very fun fishing pond without a lot of management time and expense.

You just have to figure out a way to get people to pay you taxes

Just thought I'd put in an update and show the progression. Several factors are contributing to the healthy fish: Fall of 2007 addition of Aquamax Largemouth, heavy reduction of small LMB and all large CC in 2008. No trophy's but appear to be moving in the right direction

May 2007-a little thin


September 2008- getting fatter


April 18 2009 - much fatter than Spring of 2007

That is great evidence of your managment plan and good feed. Thanks for posting pics.

Yes that makes sense and is mostly right. I do want to point out that natural fertility (normal carrying capacity without feeding or fertilization) varies hugely from location to location. In some ponds 100 lbs per acre is all that can be grown and in some locations over 3000 lbs per acre are carried naturally. It all depends on each location and owners goals as to how , if at all, those goals can be achieved. But you are absolutely right about the concepts. A pond is like a engine , sun, water , nutrients and it produces fish and , plants. Like an engine the longer and harder you push the rpms the more likely it is to break. The more you know and the better you manage it and take care of things the better it runs but it can still break.