Hi guys. I'm new here and looking for some advice before digging my pond.

I recently came under contract on a place with a big valley that looks perfect for my dream building site/pond.

Obviously my wife and I are excited to get going but we received some bad news from our excavator.

It seems that the run off from all of our land feeds another pond further down the valley. Keep in mind there are no natural streams or waterways. We are just talking run off from 10-15 acres of land.

My pond would get all of the water that has been feeding the lower pond. The excavator expects the lower pond to suffer in some dry years.

My question- Can I legally do this or does the other pond have some kind of rights to the water that runs off my property?

Thanks folks. Look forward to the responses.

Welcome to the forum. I don't have an answer for you, maybe someone that is versed in Kansas regulations will chime in. Every state is different (I think).

If you haven't done so already, I'd stop at your counties NRCS office and talk to them. It's a part of the USDA, and they usually have an office in just about every county in every state. If not, then there is an office in the next county over that also services your county.

I would think that is you own the land, you own the runoff/watershed. Lets see when someone who knows what they are talking about chimes in......

Here in East Central Indiana I have a friend that built a dammed pond that was fed partially from a pond run off of an elevated pond of an owner next to him, that intern was fed from another pond across the road. The friends ponds run off fed near the head of a very small stream called White River that intern finally runs into the Ohio River.

I have two fields, corn/soybeans, water can come down after a heavy rain into my field from a neighbor's higher elevation field and cause damage, to my crops where as this water flows through a small culvert under a road into a neighbors field and so on. So the laws of nature are water seeks it's own level. When you are building your pond if you are damming it that might be considered an obstruction of the natural flow of water, but I doubt it, on the other hand if you are just digging a hole I would think you are absolutely free and clear. But of course check with your state.

The flow of water is interesting. In my area almost every farm around is putting in plastic tubing in their fields to run off excess water to enhance their corps. So what happened when we got a big rain in the last few days? All of the square miles of drained land with water flowing all at the same time rose the level of the water trying to get through the open ditches, creeks and rivers and the fields were flooded more then ever from the backup. Like stuffing ten pounds of stuff into a five pound bag.

A lot of us are doing just what you are wanting to do. However, there are a lot of new laws and regulations these days. In most cases you capture some water and the valley below you will still furnish water to the lower pond.

I would ask the excavator, who may or may not know what he is talking about, if there is a law involved.

I lost a lot of run off when a neighbor planted grasses on his land to stop erosion. I don't blame him. I would have done the same thing.

Kidsampson, Click on the link below, find your county and click on it. I just got off the phone with them asking them the same question you have. I got an ear full and the bottom line was slim to no way!
http://offices.sc.egov.usda.gov/locator/app?state=KS

Jim-
Slim to no way you could build a pond? Or slim to no way someone could have legal action?

Thanks for the link. I will call them tomorrow.

USDA---how much can they be trusted. Years ago when I was walking my pond area I noticed there were no honey bees on any of the dandelions. I think I was the first person to notice this in my county. I went to the USDA office to report this and they didn't have a clue. I told them to check their one acre front yard that was full of dandelions and you won't find one honey bee. It is thought now that a pesticide is killing them. Originally they thought it might me a mite.

USDA again---I randomly planted 5 1/2 acres around my newly built pond with a couple of thousand trees. I planted Bison Grass to choke out weeds and for a couple of years I mowed around the whole area and mulched each tree. I quit mowing thinking my tree area was in good shape but a farmer reported I had some thistles growing among the small trees.
This automatically sets in motion by the county that the 5 1/2 acres will be mowed by the county killing all my trees now about three years old. The only way it can be stopped is for the complainer to withdraw his complaint. The USDA said it was the law and couldn't be stopped. USDA said why didn't I plant the trees in rows so it could be mowed easily. I said I didn't want my pond area trees to look like corn rows. About this time an agent from the county next to mine came to fill in for my agent on vacation and I told him my problem. He told me there was a law that small trees couldn't be cut and must have a chance to grow. Then I went to the courthouse to get the complainants name and they wasn't going to give it to me. I said how can I sue if I don't have his name. I then confronted the complainant and told him I was going to sue under the new law I had uncovered and he dropped the complaint.

So what I am suggesting is the USDA may have conflicting laws if you run into problems that may help you.

Slim to no way you can do what you described. Off the record he said, even with permission from the down stream load owners all it would take is one person to complain and the trouble begins. The bottom line is...you are not allowed to interfere with the natural flow of water.

In Texas, AT THIS TIME, the law only addresses navigable waters.

In my township its measured by flow, 10 000 gallons flow per day but it doesn't stipulate when that flow is measured. (Time of year).

There are four other stipulations regarding flood plains and water ways but then first one is specifically for water shed.

Of course this doesn't help you since I'm in Ontario! Good luck though!

Well thats stupid! So your telling me if I buy 40 acres of land and it has GREAT run off I can't build my own pond on it??? Because joe blow down the road uses all my run off??? How F-ing dumb is that. So once AGAIN the land owner has no control over what he can do with his own land....

Wow...

RC

Go talk to an attorney versed in your states water law - each one is different.

FWIW western water law is entirely different from eastern water law. I have no idea about Canada but its law is based on the Crown (Country) owning all natural resources.

If that's the case Jim, no pond would ever get built. There is always somebody lower than you. I just don't see it.

I agree with kidsampson! People build ponds all the time on their property as long as it isn't a creek, stream, or river and doesn't back water up on someone else's property then there shouldn't be a problem at all.

I just got off the phone with the Kansas USDA. They said there is absolutely no problem with using the surface water on my property.

I doubted it would be that easy so I kept asking her the same question over and over.

And she asked
1. Are you damming a creek?
2. Are you damming a natural water way of any sort?
3. Are you changing the water flow with terraces and such?

After no, no, no- She said I can do whatever I want with the surface water on my property in Kansas.

By the way, I appreciate all the help here. This place is pretty awesome.

That's great news! The guy I talked to must have been thinking creek instead of run off. He lost me when he starting talking about over lapping

Good news kid dig on!! Now a creek or river makes more sense but regular water run off I was hoping they wouldn't have such a stupid law heck almost eveyone would be in trouble....

RC

Thanks folks and I'll be back. This is my first time around and I am going to need my hand held throughout the process once it's time to stock!

All of the feedback is appreciated. Thanks again.

Great news! I'd recommend going to the Pond Boss store and ordering "Perfect Pond". That will help you get started on your path. It's better to wait a bit and get it all planned out than to rush things and jump in with both feet, only to realize half way thru the project that you should have done something differently, or find out after the project is done that the pond basin should have been compacted differently.

Planning out the whole project ahead of time will most likely save you $$$ in the end.

I've found out that there is a HUGE difference in the NRCS offices. Just like in the private sector, it all depends on how smart and knowledgeable the agent is, and that varies tremendously from office to office.

If you think about it, we are all upstream or downstream from somebody else.

I also heavily recommend the book. Lots of people think they can get all the info from the internet/Youtube. However, there are a lot of things that we don't know enough to ask. Then, we find out the answers the hard way. Education can be either cheap or expensive.

Ponds, rifles, and outdoor equipment/toys have been my Corvettes.

Excellent advice from DD1 and Esshup.

Kid, I'd keep record of the lady who told you that, just for reference if need be. Good luck and keep us posted.

I would get it in writing....

An easy way to have a record of info given by the gov is to e-mail em all your ?s and concerns. When they e back, print and store in your PAPER folder in a safe place.