Pond Boss Forums Thread Like Summary - What is the maximum allowable drive time?

I live near to Imlay City Fish Farm, but their fish availability is unpredictable. So, I am looking at other suppliers, but unfortunately, they are all about a 3-hour drive away.

How long of a drive can fish survive if packaged in oxygen bags and kept cool and out of the sun? I am interested in RBT, SMB, YP, RES. One company told me no more than 1.5 hours for 6"-8" trout. Clearly, smaller fish and fewer fish per bag would help. Are there any rules of thumb?

The fish farms have eliminated "Fish Days" or "Meet the Truck." So, either I pay for delivery (given the great distance, there are minimum order requirements as well), or I attempt to transport the fish myself.

Are there any good plans for DIY fish hauling tanks with bubblers?

I'm no expert, but this has been my experience. In March I picked up 30 6-8" YP from a recommended fish farm (2hrs 15min away), and got an additional 7 larger YP and around 2 pounds of bluntnose minnows from a highly esteemed friend that lives probably an hour and 45 minutes away (he met me at the fish farm). Fish farm packaged all the fish in oxygen and gave me 4 hour time limit. My 30 YP were splint in 2 bags, the additional 7 in their own bag, and the BNM in their own bag. All fish survived the ride home and are happily swimming about my tiny pond. I then went back in May and picked up 20 around 6-7" Specklebelly Sunfish and 2 pounds of tilapia. The SBS were divided into 2 bags and the tilapia in their own bag. All fish survived that 2 hour and 15 minute ride home as well. When I got home on all occasions, I floated the bags in the pond, waited 15 minutes, filled 2 tubs of my pond water, then transferred from the bags to tub 1, then from tub 1 to tub 2, then released to the pond.

I could see trout potentially being a problem, but from my experience, I think the others should be fine as long as you head straight back.

I've hauled Fish in 75 gallon Horse Tanks repeatedly, 50-60 gallons per tank, 4 tanks on a utility trailer. I use 4 outdoor pond bubblers, rated for either (memory is slipping) 500 gallon or 500 CF ponds. 10 hours on the road, home after dark, hold till next morning, confirm water within 5*F of pond and dump. YP, WE, SMB, etc. 20-25 lbs per tank. Only occasional morts. I haul October till mid June in Oklahoma. Lid covers all 4 tanks, 3/4" plywood with 3 inches of foam attached to lid and tanks ride on 4" of foam , insulated from sun and road heat. Long haul with temps above 85*F, I would pass on. One other thing, I split air lines for redundancy . Aerator #1 serves Tanks A & B , Aerator #2 also serves Tanks A & B , Aerators 3 and 4 both serve tanks C & D . It's worked well so far,, 70 hours of road time so far. Best I can tell, never a bruised or beat up fish. 4 tanks allow me to segregate by size and/or species.

James

In general, the bigger the fish, the more risk during transport.

I've done a 2.25 hour drive with 9-10" HSB in bags with pure oxygen, and boxed. Out of (20) fish, I had one D.O.A. At the one pond where I put in (10) of these HSB, they had (4) morts within a week; I don't know if that was due to transport.

If you do some kind of DIY transport rig, I think you need pure O2, and not just ambient air; probably not as simple as one might expect.

As Sunil referenced, oxygen is what you need. A large Igloo, a small O2 bottle with a regulator and flow meter, and a small Point Four diffuser will easily handle a long haul. Aquarium tank stones don't work as well. If you figure out the square footage of the cooler, the fisheries should be able to tell you how many fish can be carried. The numbers will differ depending on size and breeds.

Here's my small rig, and it's been a life saver several times. The black ring in the lid is a vent, and the whole rig can be easily carried.

Sometime larger fish can experience some damage during transport from bumping into the walls when the vehicle make turns at speed.

I saw that once with a LMB delivery, where some of the LMB actually had broken lower jaws at the front most area. Fish guy said it was due to transport.

If that was really true, then maybe you'd want some kind of internal netting to prevent impact with the walls.

However, if others like FIH, have not had this issue, then disregard my comment.

Don't disregard what you posted, you're right! A big cooler would probably only safely carry a few larger fish, and if I was going to carry multiple RBT, or spiny fish, then I would go with O2 filled bags too. Carrying fingerlings, shiners, etc. would be fine in a cooler. I'm picking up 10 lbs of FHM next week, and will use the cooler for that 3 hour trip.

A 275 gallon tote is 2,269 pounds for freshwater (8.35 lbs/gal). That is over the bed limit for many 1/2-ton pickups. I haul my irrigation water tote on a trailer.

However, if you don't fill it all of the way, it will slosh like crazy.

Most of my totes have a threaded connection in the lids, but you would probably have to drill a hole in the lid for they oxygen line and caulk it prior to the trip.

How would you get the fish OUT of the totes? The valve on the bottom is usually 2" which would work for minnows and fingerlings, but not for larger fish.



I still think a Star Trek transporter would be the best option, but none of the advertisers in the Pond Boss magazine are offering that option yet.

I've made 5 hours trips with a dozen LMB in the 9 to 12 inch size using a large cooler and a simple bubble aerator. The key is the outside temp...if you can find a window that's between 65 and 75 degrees you should be ok making long hauls. I frequently haul a pound of golden shiners in my Frabill 13 quart cooler 2 1/2 hours with the cooler in the cab of my truck during Summer...no deaths, but gets to smelling a little fishy with the aerator running...I'm pretty sure they would last overnight if needed.

3 1/2 hour trips with fish from Overtons Fish Farm packed with O2 in boxes always make it...but then again, I only transport in Spring & Fall when temps are desirable.

One hatchery I go to charges a few $3 or $4 per box, but if you had the space in your vehicle, you could request less fish per box, but have more boxes.

Well, since this is a big part of my business I won't say about some of the things that I learned over the years doing this. I paid $$$$$$$$$ in dead fish, etc. etc. and for me to give all the info away? I just won't do it. You have to pay for knowledge, and payment could be paying a professor in a class room or paying for knowledge learned by paying for mistakes. BUT here are some lessons learned/cliff notes.

Do NOT run tanks that aren't full. It's called a slack tank. VERY dangerous if you have to make an abrupt driving direction change. I know of a fish hauler that had slack tanks in their truck, took an off ramp and they rolled the flatbed truck...... It wasn't pretty, both the people in the cab had multiple broken bones, and the truck was totaled.

Water weighs a LOT. You have to have the tanks tied down with straps strong enough, and you have to have lids on the tanks to contain the water. Splashing water out of the tanks is not a good idea if a state trooper or other police department just happens to see it. If you do not have electric brakes on the trailer, stopping distances can be greatly increased. If you don't distribute the weight in the trailer correctly and it starts to sway, and you don't have electric brakes on the trailer to stop the sway you will be toast. I will NOT use a trailer that has surge brakes. Period. Electric brakes or nothing AND you have to adjust the braking level according to the weight of the trailer. You can overload a truck/trailer suspension. Blow a tire, you better be able to control the vehicle while you stop it and you better have a good spare tire AND all the tools needed to pick up the vehicle/trailer to get the tire changed. I've heard of jacks sinking into hot asphalt because of a heavy trailer and the tire couldn't be changed. Is the trailer rated for that weight and are the tires rated for that trailer weight? Are you running the tires at the correct air pressure?

Hauling a tank that has more than 200 gallons in it? You better have a tanker rider on your drivers license. Haul more than 1,000# of O2? You better have a Haz-Mat placard on the truck and a Haz-Mat rider on your license.

Running ambient air is OK for a short run with low loading density, but for a long run or a higher loading density? You have to run pure O2. Running pure O2 without an oxygen meter is a recipe for disaster. Also, just like aerating a pond, using an air stone that does not make fine bubbles will cause problems. Even a Point Four O2 diffuser can allow you to kill fish if it turns upside down. You can kill fish by burning their gills by having the O2 levels too high. It WILL kill the fish. Running O2 means having redundant back up systems OR enough parts on board to fix whatever fails and fix it quickly. Don't run a defoamer in the tank? You can kill fish that way too by not letting the water off gas.

Keep fish in the same water for too long and you will kill the fish. You have ammonia build up and CO2 build up. You might see trout piping at the surface, think the O2 level is too low and pour more O2 to them if you don't have an O2 meter. It could be a build up of CO2 and you will smoke their gills.

The warmer the water, the less O2 it will hold. Fish are best hauled at 63°F water temp. You want the O2 levels to be between 9 and 15 mg/l. You might be able to get away with higher levels for a short amount of time, and possibly down to 5 mg/l for a short amount of time BUT that stresses the fish and causes them to use more O2. .

Fish density. It all depends on the species of fish and water temp, but when running pure O2 1/2# of fish per gallon of water is safe. At that density, holding fish for more than 16 hours is very iffy if you don't do at least a 50% water change. (Fish swim in their own toilet) You CAN haul fish at a higher density, but that is like playing with a lit firecracker that you don't know how fast the fuse will burn. Catfish can be hauled at a MUCH higher density. but if the fish weren't purged for 3 days prior to hauling, the haul density has to be lowered.

Water temp/pH change. No more than 5°F per half hour temp change, and no more than 1.0 pH per hour change. I have killed Walleye fingerlings with a 1.3°F temp change.

When using O2, you HAVE TO HAVE a DOT approved safety cap on the tank when driving down the road. It's a recipe for a ticket if you don't have a safety cap on it. Even with the regulator on the tank, it's gotta have a safety cap on the tank..

Try to cool down the water with ice? You better have a chlorine or chloramine neutralizer on board to use. Ditto for using city water.

Some states you need a fish hauling license to transport fish. If you don't have a receipt and you have fish in greater number than the bag limit, OR fish smaller or larger than you can catch and keep, you can get spanked for that too. Take fish from one state to another without having the proper permits or health certs? Google what a Federal Lacey Act violation costs. Oh, and that is a felony too.......

10# of small fish need more O2 than 10# of large fish.

Galvanized tanks? Not this boy. Take a look at what the haul tanks are made of. Absolutely 0 are made from galvanized metal. Zinc is toxic to fish. Add salt to the water to stimulate the slime coat just causes zinc toxicity faster. Again, you may "get away" with it for a while, but sooner or later you will get burned.

Putting big fish in the tank with small fish is a recipe for killing the small fish. They get beat up by the big fish.

Hauling in hot weather or cold weather and not using insulated haul tanks? Good luck. I have hauled fish for 12 hours in 10°F ambient temperatures. Even with insulated haul tanks the water temp dropped 13°, and try to adjust an O2 flow control meter when it's covered with 1/2" of ice.......

Just because you are running pure O2 and have an O2 meter doesn't mean that the O2 levels 5 minutes after the fish are in the haul tank will be the same 20 minutes down the road.

Use O2? You will need a diffuser stone made for O2, a regulator and a flow control meter. Since you need redundancy, now go price at least one extra of everything.

That's why it costs $$ to haul fish. Equipment costs, Knowledge expenses and driving down the road expenses. $4.30/gallon of diesel? That's $0.43/mile @ 10 MPG JUST FOR FUEL. For a hobbyist for one trip, you might be able to get away cheaply. Buy $500 worth of fish, get home, see that they died on the trip, now they just cost 2x as much to replace IF you can find those same fish.

10# of 2"-3" Bluegill could be transported for 6+ hours in a 150 quart igloo cooler, with the micropore diffuser set-up like George used for the HSB (with flow control valve with pressure set @ 45-50 psi), and the appropriate salt/chemical cocktail (ask the hatchery what they use to treat the water to haul fish). You will need to have an O2 meter to check O2 levels 15 min after the fish go in the cooler, again another 15 min, then again in 1/2 hr and if the O2 doesn't need a big adjustment, then you can go an hour. Make sure the water temp is in the low to mid 60's too.......

https://www.grainger.com/product/61...aq7-e2lNzxoCp60QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

You need to drill a hole in the lid to allow the O2 hose to get inside. The lid needs to be locked down. Don't transport in your car trunk, water WILL splash out. Besides, this thing will weigh around 350 pounds with fish and water.

Fishinrod, that was just the tanks that I had in the truck. Now multiply that by 3x for what's on the trailer........ I can haul close to 1,200 gallons of water, 1,300 if I push it.

https://pentairaes.com/point-four-micro-bubble-diffusers-mbd

https://dwyer-inst.com/series-rm-ra...XCfWYAEWkPzVSXLAEOQf6ERbrwxoCxWgQAvD_BwE

https://www.grainger.com/product/79...eMPYqIPxfhoCh14QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://weldfabulous.com/welding-supplies/gas-cylinders/cap-accessories/

Then you have to get the 1/4" hose, and all the brass fittings/hose clamps to make it work. Then basically double those supplies because you need to have at least one extra of everything to ensure that you aren't stuck somewhere when something goes wrong. It's only $$$ after all.

OK, thanks. That's basically the same 150 quart rig I posted earlier, so it looks like we're thinking alike. The only difference is that I use a Premier 4700 regulator/flowmeter. It's cheaper than buying both($175), and it's already set up for micro bubblers, so just twist the knob and you're good to go. TPWD and BassCat boats did tests for low lift boat livewells, and the 4700 running on a M15 O2 tank, like I carry in the Igloo, should last 30 to 35 hours at 0.1 SLPM.

As far as chemicals, I use salt and clove oil. Like you said, always have duplicates of fittings and clamps.

Oh, I forgot. I always carry a pink bucket to move fish that I net out of the cooler. Nobody ever steals a pink bucket.

....with a stolen pink bucket to boot...

Back in June I had 100 3" perch shipped UPS overnight from Zetts, 50 in a bag, each boxed with a couple cooling bags. They were in transit about a day and the outside temp was low 80's, but higher in the UPS trucks. Only 2 out of 100 seemed DOA. It certainly can be done with small fish, large fish are another matter.

Nice clean diffusers. I bet they have that new leather smell.

Yep ATA, they need to be acclimated to the different temp between the tank and the pond. If not, they go into shock and either die or are picked off by predators