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4CornersPuddle, anthropic, azteca, catscratch, ewest, FishinRod, gehajake, Heppy, jludwig, jpsdad, Omaha, Pat Williamson, Perch Pond, RAH, RStringer, Snipe, teehjaeh57
Total Likes: 45
Original Post (Thread Starter)
#553241 11/03/2022 6:00 AM
by Snipe
Hey all, being an open person with friends I thought I would share a little something here with all of you I have been personally rewarded by, whether it be advise or help in other ways.
Last Friday I got to feeling pretty rank and Saturday was really down-hill. Saturday night I was flown by Air Evac by my own company to Denver to get help after contracting Covid (we do not know the variant). I was allowed to come home yesterday am via my own air ambulance company again, because my aircraft is frequently in Denver on transfers- with the understanding recovery was in order. They started me on an experimental med for emergent use only that is yet to be approved.
My respiratory system is not working as it should and progress today has been backwards.
As of right now, 11:43 pm mountain time, we are considering a possible trip back to emergent care facility of which we are unclear of the destination yet.
I ask my wife to get my PC and get me to this spot so I could say thank you to those that have made things so exciting for me that I had to say thank you because I do NOT know what will come next. Nobody wants to think about what could happen, but I've silently been concerned of this due to other underlying factors that may complicate things with a total recovery.
I'd like to think I can fight like a big old fat smallie but something inside said I need to drop a note here.
Maybe this is not the place to say this, but I really appreciate the acceptance I feel in this group of very fine people.
I know I have a few people still waiting for fish and I hope with all my heart I can still fill those requests.
I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel and have a lot of fight left. I also respect some here have or are going through harder trials in life. With that said, I hope to be back soon and join in again.
Thanks Guys!
Liked Replies
#556148 Mar 7th a 06:39 PM
by Snipe
Hello all, I wanted to come back and post a few updates here.
Haven't been "ON" for awhile, miss you guys..
Just wanted to drop in and let you folks know I've been experiencing some side effects (so they say) to my Covid experience..
Started having unexplained seizures nearly 2 months ago now. We "think" we have those under control and I've gotten WAY behind in my fish farm duties, but with my wife's and a couple of friends help, we're back up to speed-if that's possible to catch up- and looks like I'm ready for the year to start.
I am SO VERY PROUD to announce an opportunity that has been given to me that will set new goals going forward...TODAY, I signed an MOU to obtain Sauger for the purpose of propagating SAUGEYE-in the Private sector..
I/we believe this to be the first-ever private sector production process for this hybrid.
I've partnered up with a grower I've been working with in CO. We have the water needed to grow out a good number of Saugeye, WAE and SMB. Things are taking shape.
10 members like this
#553264 Nov 4th a 03:07 AM
by Snipe
Hey all, didn't know I'd be back quite so soon but they didn't ship me out last night. The drugs they started me on have helped with breathing greatly. Far from normal with hills to climb but I "think" the fear of lungs failing is maybe past for now as long as no other issues crop up.
I really am thankful for the kind words here, I guess I was scared more than I knew.
I do know the antibiotics I'm on are such that I can't have visitors for awhile I'm told.
I tried to pull a funny with a nurse and ask if the O2 mask was a matala.. nobody got it, but didn't matter, it was funny to me.
Long road ahead, glad I didn't have to leave for now. Thanks for the prayers all.
6 members like this
#556180 Mar 8th a 03:09 PM
by Snipe
Originally Posted by canyoncreek
educate us on what a sauger is and why you would hybrid with walleye and then what the advantages (or disadvantages) of the saug-eye might be? are these best suited for smaller or larger ponds and are we targeting cooler/northern ponds or can they do southern ponds too?
The Saugeye came about in KS as an additional fishing opportunity that was desirable because of growth rate typical of most hybrids.
What was NOT known for some time was their tolerance of less than stelar water quality, the ability to thrive in higher than both parent stocks temp ranges and then later yet the discovery of their appetite for sunfish opposite the typical fusiform shape desired by most predators. This led to a massive shift in biomass with quantity over quality pan-fisheries. It was found by accident, really.. several stunted crappie situations turned from an untouchable number of 5-7", uncontrollable crappie populations into a suddenly increasing size of crappie that led to large crappie that had never been observed in many KS impoundments.
Over the last decade, studies have shown the Saugeye to work better than anything known for controlling massive numbers of small BG without disrupting other species population such as LMB in a negative manner. Most of the research conducted showed the LMB population structure had an over abundance of small, hungry bass that due to cover related issues, the smaller BG were not being consumed and resulted in some starvation of small LMB with a following explosion of BG. Now, we all know this is a management issue in small ponds, and it's easy to say there is cover that needs removed for predator access. When the state looks at this, the time factor plays a role and it becomes impractical for them to devote Many hours of time to lessen the percentage of habitat.
Enter the Saugeye.. Observations of these fish having one or 2 up cruising through cattails and other dense shoreline cover vegetation running smaller fish out to other waiting mouths.
Stocking rates required have been found to be fairly low when being used as a tool to modify a panfish structure, like 4-10 fish per acre, every other year and like any other fish we deal with, they are culled when desired results are noted.
Walleye can do "ok" in some ponds but if you really note body condition by the numbers, seldom will you ever find WAE above the 85% WR mark, it's just not where they do well. Take a saugeye from a small, slightly discolored, maybe 80-82 deg water body type and generally you will find them in the 90%+ WR.
Basically, the Saugeye gets only growth potential from the WAE.. They take on the traits of Sauger in preferring warmer, turbid conditions where WAE fail badly, then add the hybrid vigor that builds in the aggressive behavior and you have a very useful tool that is easily caught, does a lot of work for you and taste very well on the table.
Many states use the Saugeye in larger impoundments to replace WAE where they won't recruit for various reasons.
For archives: WAE=Walleye, SAE=Saugeye. These are widely accepted abbreviations for these 2 fish and are used by my state hatcheries for ID, so that's how I use them.

Edit: As for location, they do well in the top 1/3rd of Texas-on North. In a nutshell, they handle warmer water than WAE.
6 members like this
#553348 Nov 6th a 11:22 PM
by 4CornersPuddle
Thanks Sunil. I'm already walking more and faster. I've been to the pond 3xs today to feed. What a relief to be able to breathe again.
4 members like this
#553383 Nov 9th a 01:17 AM
by 4CornersPuddle
Thanks, tj. Every day continues to be better than the last. I appreciate your energy.
4 members like this
#553301 Nov 5th a 03:10 PM
by 4CornersPuddle
Kenny, I logged on yesterday and read this scary post. What a relief to have your breathing back, right?
I've been facing my mortality the last week and a half as I had open heart surgery for a valve repair last week and spent more than the week in the hospital. Recovery is moving along now. I have my strength and balance, but nearly no endurance. A simple walk to the pond 100' away can leave me out of breath! I was told that is to be expected, but not breathing well is rather spooky!
During any potentially painful procedure in the hospital, I was advised to relax into a "happy place". Each time I would imagine myself in a chair at the end of my dock pitching meal worms and Optimal to the hungry hordes. That got me through it all.
Ponds do serve us well, don't they?!
My absolute best is flowing your way through the several miles that physically separate us. Your bright spirit has helped us all.
3 members like this
#553450 Nov 13th a 03:33 PM
by FishinRod

Sorry to hear that your son is also in the "tuff time" category. I hope he manages a full recovery and can return to his normal activities soon.
3 members like this
#556225 Mar 9th a 09:12 PM
by Snipe
Originally Posted by canyoncreek
Well for sure, make sure the program is successful and do what is best for the success rates.

I was just thinking if you make the program successful and can ramp it up, would there ever be enough for sales at fish farms out of state or would it only be for Kansas stocking situations?
I have health cert for the waters/fish I raise, so they can go anywhere allowed by the health cert..
Some of my grow-outs are on Colorado side of border so we had to provide the cert to them as well.. Luckily KS is in a good working relationship with CO so no issues there.
It will be handled on a case by case basis as we are testing for most items required by many states and not just our own. That in itself can get expensive.
2 members like this
#556278 Mar 11th a 07:14 AM
by Snipe
Originally Posted by Sunil
I had the same kind of question as canyon.

Can the Saugeye reproduce in a pond, if we know?

Also, what do we think predates on Saugeye?
As I posted in the hybrid thread that was resurrected, yes, the "potential" to reproduce is still there, even with triploid saugeye, but it seems the same basic rules tend to follow suit with what we see with WAE.
we do have confirmation of 3 consecutive yrs of reproduction of triploid saugeye in 2 small impoundments now, so like everything else, I don't think it's smart to assume "never" but the likely hood of this occurring in a small pond of say, less than 25-30 acres would be very low UNLESS conditions were present to support perfect alignment.

ewest, appreciate the reference from Dave Willis. My Mentor in this project was a student of Dr. Willis's, and is now the director of our Percid program. He has a letter on his office wall framed, that Dr. Willis sent to him just prior to his graduation many many years ago. It's even more of an honor to get to work with someone that learned from Dr. Willis-The legacy continues!
2 members like this
#553391 Nov 10th a 12:30 AM
by Snipe
4CP, Mitral valve by chance?
Keep smiling my friend, I'll do the same.
1 member likes this
#553458 Nov 14th a 05:37 AM
by anthropic
Originally Posted by 4CornersPuddle
Thanks Sunil. I'm already walking more and faster. I've been to the pond 3xs today to feed. What a relief to be able to breathe again.

One underappreciated benefit of a pond is that it gives you reason to get out, walk around, do stuff in the great outdoors. At least for me, it's too easy post retirement to sit around at the keyboard or read a book all day.
1 member likes this
#553392 Nov 10th a 02:19 AM
by 4CornersPuddle
Yes snipe, mitral valve regurgitation due to prolapse.
Pati and I now know so very much more about the heart and all its functions than we ever wanted to know. You could say more than we ever thought could be known!
The knowledge, wisdom, competence, and efficiency of the entire heart team were beyond our expectations.
And yes, lots of smiling going on around here now.
1 member likes this
#556247 Mar 10th a 05:13 PM
by ewest

Dave Willis

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
South Dakota State University
Jim -- lots of natural hybrids between walleye and sauger in our Missouri River and its reservoirs, too. Not from any purposeful saugeye stocking.

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From Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.

Dave Willis

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
South Dakota State University
TJ -- you are on-target except for limited reproductive ability. The hybrid (saugeye) is fertile, will back-cross with both parents, and will produce an F2 generation. That's what really stopped the momentum for them for sport fishing. For a while, I was hoping that someone was going to get into triploid saugeye to avoid the reproduction issue, but haven't heard anything about that lately.

The states of Ohio and Oklahoma really had some spectacular saugeye fisheries going in places where the walleye populations had been poor (turbid, high flow through). Other Midwestern states were interested and used them a little, but then the concern over the saugeyes getting into native walleye and sauger populations arose, and most states backed off on saugeyes. We used them up at Richmond Lake (880 impoundment) in SD, and really created a super black crappie fishery in a lake in which the crappies had been stunted for years (decades). We compared saugeye and walleye in a 22-acre pond near Brookings, and really saw no difference between them in this good habitat. However, it was really cool when my son caught that 30-inch saugeye last summer out there! As Cecil indicated on the other thread, we really don't expect reproduction by saugeye or walleye in ponds. However, the walleyes in one gravel pit north of town here do have a little trickle of natural recruitment. Every time we electrofish in the fall, we always got just a few age-0 fish that came from natural spawning.

Bill and Cecil -- I thought some of the early work on saugeye showed that they were easier to intensive culture than the walleye? Same thing with the tiger musky vs. the northern pike or muskellunge?

I checked with Mike Brown, our culture guy, and he wondered if Held had been using the new Otohime diet or something similar? Mike said his LMB really like it in his tank experiments. I think Otohime is the next generation of the Biokyowa diet, and that diet sure helped some of the intensive culture efforts.

We still end up at the same place. What would be the brood source for pure sauger and pure walleye for production of the hybrids?
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