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Thread Like Summary
FishinRod, stevengo
Total Likes: 3
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by stevengo
stevengo
Hello,
I am interested in renovating an existing pond (now a marsh) on the highest point of our farm. We'd like to do this for irrigation during times of drought, as well as for recreation.

The soil types that are home to the existing pond area are conducive for a pond (SuA, Sun silt loam), and they extend beyond our property to a neighboring apple orchard. This SuA soil type sits in a natural basin that collects a lot of the water that I presume makes it's way to the pond site. However, the rest of the basin has different soil types that aren't great for retention (AmB, Amenia fine sandy loam).

Is there any good way that we could turn the entire basin into a lined pond, and fill it with a neighboring brook? We're legally allowed to pump 100K gallons of water a day from this brook. We could take more if we wanted to deal with the state.

My impression is that we would have to liner over the existing pond, despite it's ability to hold water. Otherwise, if we were to line only the portion that has leaky soils (AmB), the pressure of the higher level of water will cause the existing pond to act as a drain and water will seek equilibrium with the marsh on our neighbors farm.

I have attached a photo showing contours, soil types, and the proposed lined pond (filled in blue) and the existing marsh (outlined in blue).

The red line shows a contour roughly 3 feet above the level of the water in the marsh area. If we were to line the basin, it would follow this path. We would stop at our property line, but I showed where the contour line continues onto our neighboring land, for the sake of understanding the topography.

The soil map is slightly off, so envision the blue outlined marsh matching up with the yellow SuA soil type.

Thanks for your time!

Steven
Attached Images
Liked Replies
by teehjaeh57
teehjaeh57
Welcome to the forum, Steven.

Liners work and are guaranteed for 20+ years, but are typically the most expensive option. High plasticity clay compacted in 4-6" lifts and use of sealing polymers also aid creating seals to impound water. I'm a volunteer here and my time is free to our forum family, feel free to reach out anytime for a chat. Happy to help however I can.

tj@hudlandmgmt.com
1 member likes this
by FishinRod
FishinRod
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there is a pretty good chance that your project area is defined as a "wetland".

If so, then you may need permission at the federal level from the Corps of Engineers to modify the wetland in any fashion.

Converting a wetland into a pond MIGHT be permitted if it is considered an improvement. They frequently do not consider that an improvement.

I do not know the rules for New York, but I am pretty sure they also have state rules about converting wetlands.

You need to get your permits approved (or be granted exceptions in writing) before you make any modifications. The potential fines are BIG!

Hopefully, you can get an expert response from a member in NY that has completed a similar project.

Good luck on your pond!

(But I am worried that the paperwork and permits may scuttle your project.)
1 member likes this
by Retired on 40
Retired on 40
Steven,

Last year I went through the process of getting permits to build a 1-1/4 acre pond in NY. I think a lawyer would be better than the friendly NRCS folks. I am sure you know the NY website https://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/6222.html. There are basically 3 hurdles. 1. Is it a designated wetland? 2. Is it a "protected water?" There is a map on the NY website that shows all the wetlands and protected waters. Both of these require special permits that are coordinated by your regional DEC office. You probably know that the Region 7 permit coordinator is Craig Ortleib (315) 785-2324Craig.Ortlieb@dot.ny.gov
3. The next thing they will ask is for your plans including dam height and construction, soil types, etc. If it is over 6' you will need a dam safety permit.
4. If you can pass all these hurdles, and you are planning on disturbing over 1 acre of soil during the construction process, then you will need to file a NOI (notice of intent) which includes a Storm Water Pollution Prevention Plan. https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/water_pdf/constgp020001.pdf
To file this you will need the assistance of a qualified preparer (someone with COESC, CPSWQ after their name). This will be required for it to get past David Gasper at the DEC who oversees all such permits. It would be helpful if your excavation contractor had or knew someone qualified.
This is all doable but you need to get past 1 and 2 first. I found the regional DEC office friendly but focused on doing their jobs. A friend pointed me to a Stormwater Coalition in the next county that helped me prepare the NOI.

Good luck
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