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Thread Like Summary
anthropic, Augie, DannyMac, ewest, FishinRod, gehajake, RAH, RStringer, Stressless, TexasTalara
Total Likes: 36
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by Stressless
Stressless
OK, short story. I started really stocking this pond in 2018 - It's been on the property for over 30 years - NEVER had a issue with it draining but no creek flowing it so it's a large pothole, water level varying by up to 2.5' over a year period.

In March of 2020 the local stock business came out with a load and he called - "your pond is gone"

Mid-Ohio - 1400'x 80' lake widest is 120' 2.5 Surface acres

I don't believe any fish will survive the current lake levels and weather

In Mar 2019 it went from
[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

to Jan 2020 -
[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

The shale drain that opened up.
[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

It's a long narrowish 2.5 SA pond that took a bunch of 5#+ LMB out with it.

The Plan:

- hire excavator company to scoop out the ridge going down the middle of long pond an build a 8'-10' bermed road on the spoil bank side 12" above planned lake level
-- Every 300' put a 20'x20' landing coming out from the Spoil side and incorporating the 8'-10' wide road Lake is 1400' long. Put 3 landings in
- put 6'PVC drain in the existing seep, Plug (first big question) and build 6"PVC snorkel drain 6" above old lake level
- hire the local stoking CO - I'm pretty sure I'd want this to be a smallmouth and walleye perch and bluegill lake adding forage yearly

So now I've got two requests

- How to plug the hole correctly to ensure the 6' PVC doesn't get comrimised and the shale is plugged far enough to prevent alternate seepage

- What would you stock with and why?
Liked Replies
by Stressless
Stressless
[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

Copy all Augie - I've got one shot at it which is why I'm here asking for all advice / views. LP was a monster maker without any human touch. This 7.5# LMB was from 2016, I started started stocking forage in 2018, figure there were 4-5 8-10# LMB in that one - in OH when it blew out. So ya, I'm ate up and willing to invest $$,$$$.$$ at a chance to get it back but I want to slant the playing deck as far in my favor as possible. 30 years in the military taught me a couple things, fortune favors the bold and a fair fight is just poor planning on your part.
3 members like this
by TGW1
TGW1
Stressless, You might be able to get the bentonite slurry for free. I'm not familiar with Ohio laws but it might be workable. Go out to the closest job sites where there are drilling rigs running. Contact the onsite Company man who represents the Operator of the project. Ask if he is using a bentonite mud system to drill the well. If so they have to discard or haul off the bentonite drilling fluid for disposal which costs the operator money. If laws there will let it happen, then he can discard it into your fracture. It is a win-win for both parties. His cost is for the vacuum pump trucks and he is not paying for disposal. Your cost is zero! It is done in Texas but again I don't know the Ohio laws.
2 members like this
by Stressless
Stressless
Multiple angles of attack on-going... first serious day - first day with trackhoe.

Pumped Sat and Sat nite, restarted this AM

[Linked Image]pic1

We hope to make it to the area where there is high dry overburden today. Once there he's gonna dig channels to drain the potholes to where the pump is... about 900'-1000' to go.

Made the initial goal, access to the middle berm to drain all the potholes into one.


[Linked Image][img]http://[/img]Pic2

ID'd the far end for the dam at that end. About 300' cut in..

[Linked Image]Pic3

Got the dozer in, only slightly stuck once this AM, dig'em deep, pile'em high! (AF Red Horse motto) New dam at the North end of the pond..

Bentonite pumper on line waiting to schedule 📅

About halfway in the pond, ~1100' long avg 70' wide.

[Linked Image]pic3


Both banks, one spoil one highwall made it inaccessible except for a nasty swampy launch at one end.

Such a treat already to be able to roll in 300+' on a 10' path!

Making the road go across the dam at the North end for access to the overflow and other maintenance.


Few hours later N Dam taking shape...

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Pic that'll reoccur... on the North dam, looking at making a shelf for bedding about 6-8' wide along parts of this... asking the learned masses on this forum what's the best depth for the shelf for bluegill and bass beds...

[Linked Image]Pic5
2 members like this
by Stressless
Stressless
Thanks for following along - nothing else will happen until it fills up - or not. I'll post up what's going on over the next year or so that it should take to fill Crescent Pond back up. Changed the name from long pond. Regardless, I have access to about 1/5 of the farm that was previously inaccessible except by arduous barely passable slopes.

Me and Pepe ( my name for my quad) got busy Sat afternoon. A ton of lime, 10 bales and 200# of grass seed.
[Linked Image]


Happiness was a set of empty pallets! With the heat and humidity I was a filthy critter at the end of it....
[Linked Image]

All the all the planning and effort for this project is complete. It went from an inaccessible, too steep to walk on spoil bank to:
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

taken from BumpOut 1
[Linked Image]

Taken from BumpOut 2
[Linked Image]

Taken from BumpOut 3
[Linked Image]

Taken from BumpOut 4
[Linked Image]



Ibid: Neighbors dam repair was completed yesterday, so all planned actions on the objective are completed. Now we wait and see but I think it'll pass.
2 members like this
by Stressless
Stressless
Well the water is rising as the rains come in. On Saturday I took an hour or so and cut the snags off about 4' below the anticipated high water level. I reduced the snaggs as I really don't want to use 50# braid for bluegill... wink

[Linked Image]

8F and chainsaw work made some nice working working conditions - nice to just walk out and getRdone....
[Linked Image]

Replaced the camera and getting some pics of the water rising and installed a not so secure PVC measuring element to the overflow. I plan to move the camera and level meter to get a good watch on the overflow and levels.

The pond is 11' deep throughout the 1100' and has risen about 7 feet so far.... since Aug, with a 3 month drought Aug->Oct On track for it hitting the overflow about March and that will signal the start of forage stocking.
2 members like this
by esshup
esshup
I have 100% confidence in the area being sealed to prevent it from happening again if it is dug out and packed at least 24" thick with clay that is placed in 6" thick lifts, compacted and repeated.

As for the fish stocking, if you won't have Largemouth Bass in there, I would ditch the regular Bluegills, and add a mix of 50/50 Redear Sunfish and Hybrid Bluegills. Can you stock Hybrid Striped Bass in your area of Ohio?
1 member likes this
by gehajake
gehajake
A question I would have on the pond leaking, draining down, how long of a period of time did it take for the pond to drain down to that point? the answer to that question would give a better idea of the chances of sealing that off permanently, if it was a slow leak that took weeks for it to drain down to that point it should be easier to fix, however if it went down over night you have a lot bigger hole below the surface that has eroded away and will be a lot harder to repair, I had a fellow here local that had a ten yr old pond drain out over night, assume drained into some underground cave, Im not sure if he ever did get that fixed permanently, I know they pumped a lot of grout into the hole trying to close it off. Good luck!
1 member likes this
by Theo Gallus
Theo Gallus
Yes, he can. But he could also do YP/RES/SMB very successfully.

HSB are fun to catch, but I never liked eating them.
1 member likes this
by Augie
Augie
Strip pit lakes are noted for blowing out. The spoil ridges are quite porous.
No compaction, just loose shale, clay, rock, and coal.

That so many of them hold water at all is a wonder. There are quite a few around here that
are just big swampy holes in the ground.

It's not unusual to have underground connections between adjacent pits. Years ago I
had access to a property that was "reclaimed" strip mine land. One year beavers plugged
the spill pipe on what we called the Big Pit. It over-topped and cut a spoil ridge at the other
end of the pond. The water level dropped about 12', and within a day or two the adjacent
pit, 300+ feet away by land, had dropped almost as much. The property owners didn't
attempt to find and fix the connection between the two pits. They fixed the blowout in the
Big Pit and installed a new spill pipe six feet or so higher than the level of the original drain.
When the Big Pit started to refill the Little Pit followed it. When the Big Pit filled to the level
of the spill pipe the Little Pit also stopped filling, but not before it had connected to another
small pit by over-topping a spoil ridge. They installed an additional spill pipe on that pit at
same elevation of the new spill pipe on the other pit. When it was all over the Big Pit had
become the Little Big Pit, and the Little Pit turned into the Big Little Pit.

It's quite possible that the hole opening up in Stressless Long Pond is what caused the Neighbor
Pond to blow out, rather than the opposite. I think Stressless is on the right track to fix his pond,
but I wouldn't want to lay odds on it staying fixed.
1 member likes this
by Augie
Augie
Originally Posted by Stressless
If it works...

Strip pit ponds are a high-risk deal.

There's simply no way to know what's under those heaps of spoil.

Fix one spot and another may blow out the next day.

It's a crap shoot for sure.

They make for really nice ponds when they hold water. Good luck with the fixing.
1 member likes this
by jpsdad
jpsdad
Guys, I am just saying. Three interconnected ponds ... not by intention ... but by subsurface. It just seems a bit hopeful that they only connect with each other in a goldilocks way where fixing the neighbors dam will fix them all. My 2 cents go to esshup's tack on the problem, but I concede to your wisdom Augie and Stressless, will watch with interest, and wish you success with this.

BTW. That's a great fish.
1 member likes this
by esshup
esshup
Stressless, I believe you have a workable plan. I agree with TGW1, it might be a way to save some $$.
1 member likes this
by Stressless
Stressless
Project going according to the schedule and big day tomorrow with a pump truck and 5500# of bentonite clay and they add cottonseed husks, met a great guy from a oil/gas deep dive I did on-line. He came out last Fri and met the excavator and we hatched a plan - that takes place tomorrow.

Pond plan is coming together - the solid dam on the neighbors side, to relive any pressure difference seems to make this not so much a folly but an actual chance at something really great. It's all basically roughed in road is leveled/cut in except for an area that needs fill from where we'll cit fill from the new overflow. Took pics from the inside of the crescent area the pond will fill, each pic is from the general area of where the last road ended on the previous pic to give an idea of how big crescent pond is.

Just made the name for this body of water, Crescent Pond.

The entrance, this end will done on the way out.

[Linked Image]

Note the trees will stay in the pond as structure for the fishery.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

There's a 40-50 y/o red oak just past the track hoe and I'm making a bumpout at the base of it. It'll be really cool in 50 years... for someone. I'll be long gone.
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Got all the fill needed for a bumpout here.
[Linked Image]

Hard to see on this pic but this bumpout has two side that slope to 2' under the pond surfance and slope to 8' under the pond surface 10' wide for spawning areas.... this one is done.
[Linked Image]

North Dam. the level of this pond will regulate the small pond on the other side of the dam with a screened culvert. Both ends are in my property line.
[Linked Image]

We chatted and decided that 2 of the 3 overflows were gonna have"equalized" water on the other side so I don'e need special beaver proof spillways.. I went and collected two of the three I have from other farm projects...
[Linked Image]
1 member likes this
by Stressless
Stressless
Used 79 of these little rascals... brought 100, used 69 in the hole and kept 10 to put around the mouth of the seep tomorrow with 60' x 120' of 6m industrial sheeting.

[Linked Image]

I didn't take a pic of the highwall on the county road but it's about 60-70d vertial slope up about 50' and you have to use a rope to help hoist yourself up and let safely down. I did that about 9-10 times today...

we started the work at about 1200 noon, first truck shows up, I not exactly sure what to expect and Jerry pops outa the Cab, "man! just off the pluging job yesterday - got called out and worked all night at a rig, just drove up here..." great American! I'm thinking, and over the next hour the other guys show up and a couple trips up and down the slope to guide Mose the excavator into position.

Now Mose, Short for Moses builds ponds for a trade now.... very interesting. Well we're working on the project over all, pumper team was slated for around noon... We chatted at the new East overflow location. and he got to work. It's hilly.
[Linked Image]

got the North and South roads connected - Kinda felt like sinking the last tie into the last rail to connect them - in some small way
[Linked Image]

The dude that orchestrated the entire deal Arron Austin, Black T shirt - great guy. Pump truck shows and Jerry pops out, looks he shold be at a Dean Martin gig, then the Amish Mose shows up and the pump helper - we look around and all start cracking wise - we have +250 years standing around 5 dudes and it's not lost on us that many folks have just given up... we chew the fat and the water truck comes up .
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Soon we had the config down and got pumping - clay- I didn't know what was supposed to happen and never used Bentonite before so I'm running Mose around, pumpers are doing their thing and I'm also in the pit watching the mud flow... well about now 50 bags into it... I think I better check the neighbors seep... to see if we were right or there was a big void we were pumping my money into- so up the high wall on my side, down the high wall on neighbors side to see the seep and what's going on... a flow thru had just started. Bentonite is the gray tan...
[Linked Image]

I knew were the source was and early I had taken a pick ax down and cut a couple hundred pounds into/onto the outflow seep on the far side. When I went over this time I stomped the mud down but could see the flow still outflowing into the other pond.

This contingency was thought about prior and we figured "if" se needed to staunch the outflow we'd do it when it needed it not take time away from the project before there was a "target ID'd"

Mose got over there and up and over spoil pile, across a muck tough and put 10 yards on the seep... in about 30m. We let the first 50 bags swell and the water pump truck went back for another load while Mose gotrdone.
[Linked Image]


Pumped a bunch more bags into the hole, 29 after the 50 bag run from the first run, and it came up to and filled up... putting that plastic and 500# more bentontie on the opening in the AM and 4' of clay fill over the entire mess....
[Linked Image]

Once we got that all done I came up and a nice tstorm rolled in after everyone had left -
[Linked Image]

The hole is as plugged as it's gonna get.

Each bag is 50# of bentonite clay.

Yesterday 69 bags of bentonite mud flowed into the crevasse, reserved 10 bags to use this AM to seal the deal. For a total of 79 bags or 3950#'s clay.

So this AM about 0700 Four bags opened and put directly in the end of the hole, then smooshed a couple yards of clay over the hole and area right around the cravasse. We cut sticks and pounded them into the wall over the now patched hole and proceeded to cover the entire area with 6 mil plastic, cutting holes with the machette and hanging the plastic sheeting. Then covered the plastic with 3-4 yards of pond clay and all over the face of the hole. Couple yards of clay smashed on top of the plastic. The plastic was 60'x120' we went with multiple folds keeping it tidy.
Three bags tossed on the wall and areas around the edge of the plastic liner and over the clay. LOTS of plastic liners thicknesses over that and three bags around and behind the plastic after 10 yards or so of clay on the center of the plastic, directly over the hole.

Mooch getting a ride with the pump and gear across the moat..
[Linked Image]

Mooch rolled from working with the 180th Fighter Wing, a unit of the Ohio Air National Guard, stationed at Toledo Air National Guard Base, Ohio. He does Datalink, digital death we like to call it. Anyway, he was close and came in last night to pitch in to the chores and work here at the farm for Aug chores. Made the clay packing go real nice with an extra set of hands.
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Then about 4' of material over the 'hole' mess to seal it in.
[Linked Image]
1 member likes this
by FishinRod
FishinRod
Man that was a lot of work!

I hope it pays off big for you - and you can get back to a more stressless part of pond ownership.

Good luck!
1 member likes this
by H20fwler
H20fwler
WOW!
What a big project...good for you!
The bass you used to get were awesome for Ohio,or anywhere... can see why you invested in this project like you did.


Thank you for your service brother...12B here.
1 member likes this
by Bobbss
Bobbss
I can't wait to see pictures as it fills.
1 member likes this
by jpsdad
jpsdad
Stressless,

I don't think this has anything to do with NP pond. I would urge you to seek to properly line at least the known problem areas in the way esshup suggested. I might even give esshup a call to see if he might be willing to oversee it. If your resolution is in your ponds and on your property then you aren't depending on anything and anyone else. It's not likely anything you are able to convince your neighbor to do will help your situation. I would focus solely on how to make a tub of my own ponds.

IMHO, something changed subsurface and this why so many spatially separated ponds are affected. I don't think the neighbors dam break had anything to do with your pond's failure ... even though they may have co-occurred. Probably ... everything is connected to some other event. My sense is that your pond spilled down to the leak and from there it went DEEP. You pond is a tub up to that point. In order to be sure that the pond holds water ... you must at the very least patch the spill point such that it is no likely to fail soon. I don't think this will require a cement plug but then maybe I am wrong about that.
1 member likes this
by esshup
esshup
If that doesn't seal it, I don't know what else will besides digging it all out and compacting it.
1 member likes this
by Stressless
Stressless
getting there inch by inch... you can really see the old pond high water level on the far bank. new pond high water via the new overflow will be about 1" below the old high water mark.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
1 member likes this
by esshup
esshup
Cool Bobcat!!

That's good that the pond is filling up. We are still WAY low here.
1 member likes this
by esshup
esshup
I'd check for everything. Only have to do that once, you don't know what they buried in the spoils around the pond. Heavy metals, etc.
1 member likes this
by Stressless
Stressless
[updated]
1 member likes this
by RAH
RAH
Need a seizure warning on the flashing pics:)
1 member likes this
by Stressless
Stressless
LoL - I can adjust the "Time between pics" but more than .25 sec it starts to drag out. I'll prob wait till it hits the overflow and then post the last time-lapse and stretch it out.
1 member likes this
by Stressless
Stressless
Thx Augie, I contacted two mud loggers from Oil & Gas services - around myarea the Utica Shale play is alive and being drilled.

We discussed the bentonite slurry in the middle and cement at both ends and one had actually fixed a pod 8 years ago with this method. While I agree that
Quote
"correlation does not equal causation"
the likelihood that both events "didn't happen interdependently over a 60 year period and then occurred together is compelling.

And as Augie pointed out, ponds connected via spoil banks (where they place overburden from a strip mine operation) - my Figure8 pond dropped the exact same amount as LP, (Google earth has the surface elevation exactly he same prior to the blow out) I expect Figure8 pond to rise to the level of the new overflow installed in LP.

If it works...
1 member likes this
by Stressless
Stressless
As expected the pH test for the pond came back fairly hot 5.1 pH. After doing some research I should have taken soil samples Prior to it filling and amended it with AgLime at that point. - Makes perfect sense and I had thought about it but didn't get the knowledge until now of how and the studied findings on different lime formulations.

Anyway - 4 actual tons, at the neutralizing rate of 2T per surface acre after the "loss"


[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
1 member likes this
by Stressless
Stressless
Only about 3"-4" to go...

⬇ Click this pic to have the gif run - not sure why it doesn't automatically?
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
1 member likes this
by esshup
esshup
Looks fantastic!!
1 member likes this
by esshup
esshup
I'll bet he was sweating and not because of the temp and humidity! Whew!!!!!
1 member likes this
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