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Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
Wildlife Management Jump to new posts
Re: Otters Strike Again! Rangersedge 5 hours ago
We currently have otters. Neighbor is trapping them. Season lasts until end of March here.
3 591 Read More
Property Projects & Construction Jump to new posts
Re: HOA pond got drained and nobody knows why Rangersedge 5 hours ago
I bet that overflow does a 90 degree at some point into the dam and back a ways and has rusted out somewhere. That happened to one of our old ponds. If water is constantly coming in and it isnt raising, it is going out somewhere.Let us know what you find.
2 571 Read More
Questions & Observations Jump to new posts
Re: Red mouth shooterlurespond 5 hours ago
It was not aerated at all.
3 100 Read More
Property Projects & Construction Jump to new posts
Re: Chestnut other trees for wildlife Rangersedge 5 hours ago
Bought about 500 2 gallon plastic pots from a local nursery. Planning to dig up the buckets Sunday. See if I need the pots. Don't quite know what to hope for. Want more trees; but will be a lot of work to pot, care for, and transplant.
87 17,960 Read More
Questions & Observations Jump to new posts
Osprey Goes Double Fisted FishinRod 6 hours ago
This is how you know if your pond is close to carrying capacity ... when the osprey can get two fish in one dive.

Osprey Video
0 19 Read More
Questions & Observations Jump to new posts
Re: Red mouth Bill Cody 7 hours ago
I have seen the redness inside the mouth of LMB during early spring due to some form of stress during winter. I always attributed it to winter water temperatures lower than 39F. This may not be the reason since these affected LMB are in NC. Was the pond bottom aerated 24/7 during winter?
3 100 Read More
Creating the food chain Jump to new posts
Re: New pond middle TN: establishing food chain? Bill Cody 7 hours ago
Esshup explains a very good practical fish transport and distribution program. IMO and experience the precautions that esshup uses as Hoosier Pond Pros is not commonly used by all the smaller fish farms. My advice is know your fish supplier. Most all have their own methods of transporting and holding fish for resale that are the reasons why I utilize my homemade fish rinse system.
49 1,726 Read More
Identifying plants Jump to new posts
Re: What Kind of Moss? Bill Cody 7 hours ago
Since Spyrogyra has been previously trade marked and we want to avoid any lawsuit, a better name might be Mougeotia (mew-gee-oh-sha) or Cladophora (Cla-doff-era).. A third option could be Zygnema (Zig-knee-ma). We shouldn't forget Ulothrix (U-low-thrix). All are big players in creating various types of green pond scum. Poles are open for voting.
9 245 Read More
Questions & Observations Jump to new posts
Re: HBG - Catfish FireIsHot Yesterday at 11:18 PM
Maybe look at the 1/4". It's only $5 more a bag, and the numbers are much better, so more bang for the buck. And yes, Overton's has it there.

Cargill Fish Food
2 54 Read More
Questions & Observations Jump to new posts
Re: HBG - Catfish Pat Williamson Yesterday at 09:35 PM
Overton fisheries in Buffalo carries it
2 54 Read More
Questions & Observations Jump to new posts
HBG - Catfish Danbob Yesterday at 09:11 PM
Anyone know where to buy Cargill Triton 3/16" or similar by the bag in North Texas? I used to get it from Texas Fishing LLC near Caddo Mills, but business must be good for them now. You can't stop by and pick up fish anymore and not very helpful in trying to stop by and buy fish food by the bag either.

Thx,
2 54 Read More
Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Jump to new posts
Re: Managing black crappie Pat Williamson Yesterday at 08:49 PM
I have 10+ LMB in my 6 acre pond that love to eat any size BCP that they can find. I used to catch quite a few but now can maybe get one in an hour of fishing for them. My neighbors have the same issue. To many LMB and way to many BG have stopped even LMB from pulling off a spawn. Have watched the BG raid LMB nests for several years.
22 648 Read More
Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Jump to new posts
Re: Managing black crappie gehajake Yesterday at 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by FishinRod
Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
I wish I could get BCP to even spawn !

Pat, how do you get BCP to NOT spawn in south Texas?

If you could figure that out and apply it to other ponds, I think you could be a multi-millionaire pond manager. grin

All joking aside, I don't think I have ever seen a question on Pond Boss about providing increased spawning habitat for crappie. They seem to find a way to utilize whatever habitat that is remotely close to their preferred conditions.

Any ideas on what is different in your pond? Might start an interesting discussion among the experts?

Actually, contrary to popular belief, I have not seen the overpopulating problem nearly as bad with BCP, I personally fish in a number of ponds that have them and am not aware of a single one, where they are in a mix with LMB, or otherwise actually, that they overpopulate to the point of being stunted.
Now I cant say the same for WCP, I do fish a pond I know of where they overpopulate pretty bad, and also, I think the LMB in that pond have been decimated pretty bad by otters, used to have nice big LMB in it but not anymore.
Like Catscratch said, few things are more fun, or tasty, then trying to thin out a pond with too many BCP in it. and although I've not seen it in BCP, I do know that WCP, after you take a bunch of them out, you will see a definitive difference in size and weight in them in as little as a yr later.
22 648 Read More
Systems questions Jump to new posts
Re: Fountain Location? TigerFanatic1 Yesterday at 06:28 PM
Thanks for that. I wouldn't have guessed that it was only out of water piping.
2 91 Read More
Identifying plants Jump to new posts
Re: What Kind of Moss? FishinRod Yesterday at 05:14 PM
First musician: "What should we call the band?"

Second musician: "How about we name it after pond scum?"

First musician: "Brilliant!"

Second musician: "I also think we should get amplifiers that go up to 11."
9 245 Read More
Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Jump to new posts
Re: Managing black crappie FishinRod Yesterday at 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
I wish I could get BCP to even spawn !

Pat, how do you get BCP to NOT spawn in south Texas?

If you could figure that out and apply it to other ponds, I think you could be a multi-millionaire pond manager. grin

All joking aside, I don't think I have ever seen a question on Pond Boss about providing increased spawning habitat for crappie. They seem to find a way to utilize whatever habitat that is remotely close to their preferred conditions.

Any ideas on what is different in your pond? Might start an interesting discussion among the experts?
22 648 Read More
Help Jump to new posts
Re: Help with everything FishinRod Yesterday at 05:03 PM
JSkid, I support anyone improving their ponds and fishery, ESPECIALLY if they are going to spend quality time fishing with their kids!

However, I am NOT an expert on any of the topics you are now questioning in greater depth. I was just throwing out ideas to get you started and thinking about your pond project.

Vegetation
Every pond with fertile water will start growing some type of plant life. You appear to have a diverse set of plants utilizing the nutrients in your pond. Some of your plants are desirable and some are harming your ability to fish and enjoy the pond. The next step is to evaluate which plants are causing you problems. Take some good samples and post them in the forum for identification. There are specific treatments for each kind of plant. Some are easy to eradicate or beat back, some are very difficult and must be treated at exactly the right times of the year with exactly the right herbicide.

Roundup should be fine for your shore plants. Treat on calm days (so overspray doesn't go into the pond) and when there is no rain in the forecast for a few days. When the rain does eventually wash your product into the pond, the ingredients should be inactivated by that time.

Most people think the ducks (and geese) are a negative for managing vegetation. They poop in the water or on the banks (which washes into the pond) and adds to the nutrients (fertilizer) in the pond. Some people do manage to have waterfowl in their ponds, but they generally want duckweed, rice, etc. growing in those ponds to attract more birds.

Water Test
Ponds and waterways are very important in Florida, so I suspect you can get a water test from the county extension service, or the lab at whichever state university was the original "ag" school for Florida.

You can also do some tests yourself, lots of the people on the forum do extensive testing when their ponds are carrying lots of fish. You can read some old threads for that.

Aeration
There are LOTS of aeration experts on the forum. However, I frequently see little videos of local guys selling aeration systems that say it keeps the vegetation down. I don't think the actual experts on the forum agree. However, dissolved oxygen in the water is essential for fish survival. There may be times of the year when weather conditions cause low oxygen levels in your pond. A massive fish kill is no fun, and the reports of that in the forum draw lots of sympathy! You might read up on some of the big aeration threads.
10 242 Read More
Systems questions Jump to new posts
Re: Fountain Location? esshup Yesterday at 03:40 PM
To minimize flow restriction, use the biggest pipe that you can - there are engineering calculations on the internet to allow you to plug in numbers to see how the size of the pipe affects flow.

Lift height is only applicable once the pipe is out of the water.
2 91 Read More
Creating the food chain Jump to new posts
Re: New pond middle TN: establishing food chain? esshup Yesterday at 03:32 PM
Bill:

This isn't in regards to BJ Nick's pond re: Tilapia, but to others that might be reading this thread that have a pond that hasn't been taken care of and have an overabundance of FA in their pond. We have found out a number of things over the years.
1) Stocking Tilapia at the rate of 40# per surface acre is needed in those ponds.
2) Stocking Tilapia that are 5"-9" in length work the best, stocking 10"-12" fish more then likely are food grade fish and they most likely won't have the reproduction that is needed in the pond.
3) If the Tilapia that were stocked are "food fish" meaning they were treated at egg fertilization to be 99% male, then even at 40#/surface acre they won't do a good job. (your statement that the army of hatched in the pond Tilapia do the majority of the work eating the algae is absolutely 100% correct)
4) If the algae in the pond isn't treated with some sort of algaecide close to stocking the Tilapia (we use 5 days pre/post as an example) then usually the Tilapia cannot consume the algae that is already in the pond AND consume the newly growing algae. Not even if they are stocked at over double the recommended stocking rate.
5) If a pond owner is using Tilapia for the first time, and for whatever reason the Tilapia do NOT control their algae that year, they usually will not give them a try again in the future; they will go back to the chemical route of controlling the algae.



In regards to the clean water, all of the hatcheries that I have been at in Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Kansas and Wisconsin use well water and a flow through system to hold their fish. You are correct in that the smaller secondary ones do not. At this point in time, we as a secondary supplier do not - we use pond water to hold the fish during the late Spring/Summer/Early Fall. We use oxygenated well water to hold fish over the winter. The long term plan is to build flow through holding tanks inside a building and use oxygenated well water like the bigger guys do. Until the bank account gets built up, it will have to be that way. I estimate that it will run somewhere North of $200,000.00 to build a large enough holding facility to hold the different species and sizes of fish in well water.

The way the laws are set up in regards to interstate fish sales, it would take a whole new thread to explain the intricacies of the regulations, and that thread would have to be updated every year because the laws change from year to year depending on what state you are talking about.

Some states just require the fish to be health tested and certified. Other states require that in addition to the fish being health tested and certified, they also require the fish farm to have their water tested to ensure that there are no "nasties" that are unseen but still in the water, i.e. Zebra Mussel veligers etc. None that I know of test for any type of algae or Starry Stonewort. Some states require the fish health test and certificate to be re-done if the fish tough ANY water that was generated in a Great Lake State, even well water. Now when testing requires that 60 fish of a certain size and species be killed for the test, and that a specially trained veterinarian collect the species, and that the testing has to be done every 6 months or every year. that can really add to the hatcheries bottom line of expenditures. When the bill runs between $600 and $1,000.00 just for the test for one fish species and size of fish, (not including the cost of the fish) and a hatchery has 10+ different species of fish, that adds up pretty durn quick.

What we as fish suppliers and stockers do to minimize any transfer of nasties is to use buckets to transfer fish from the tank to the pond. The bucket that dips water out of the tank never is used to bring fish to the pond. The nets that are used to get the fish out of the tanks are never put in the pond. The buckets are either allowed to dry out between stops, or they are sprayed with Hydrogen Peroxide and then let dry. Unfortunately there is no good way to inexpensively and quickly sterilize equipment between deliveries that is 100% foolproof. Then at the end of the delivery day everything is sterilized before starting the next delivery cycle. Transport tanks, nets, buckets, etc., etc. We can use more aggressive sterilizers back at the farm. We have never had to get water while on the road from another source other than the hatchery that the fish came from.
49 1,726 Read More
Systems questions Jump to new posts
Fountain Location? TigerFanatic1 Yesterday at 02:22 PM
I'm looking to add a DIY fountain when I get my pond completed and am trying to determine whether or not I need to have the pump in the middle or if can be closer to the bank and piped to the middle where the spray is. I'm only looking to have 7-8' of water depth, so may not have to worry about pump's lift height as much but am a little concerned with flow loss inside the piping. However, I've never done it and leaning on you all for experience and suggestions. Main driver for not placing pump in the middle is to minimize need for waterproof electrical connections.
2 91 Read More
Identifying plants Jump to new posts
Re: What Kind of Moss? Theo Gallus Yesterday at 12:59 PM
As Bill notes, there are different varieties of Spirogyra. British:
[Linked Image from progarchives.com]
and American:
[Linked Image from news.theurbanmusicscene.com]
9 245 Read More
Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Jump to new posts
Re: Managing black crappie jpsdad Yesterday at 12:48 PM
MnAngler,

After re-reading your last post I would like to comment on a couple of things. You said:

Quote
Thanks for all the info/stats jpsdad! Your numbers are actually very close to what my buddy and I discovered this ice season, a lot of crappie around that 7-8" range.

Just so that you understand, I didn't pluck any numbers out of thin air. All numbers were provided by you and I just did some analysis with your numbers. Nothing else. "My numbers" are "your numbers" expressed in a different format. To get good advice on balance, it is important to have an accurate understanding of populations. Your inch ranges have moved around a lot and I think you are trying to rely on memory of a very limited sampling. No fault there, I know you are trying to provide an accurate picture. I would just say, that if you aren't providing accurate information, the analysis will also reflect the same inaccuracy. If you are serious about managing this BOW at its peak performance, you will need a very accurate understanding of population proportions. At the very least, length measurements. I could work with length measurements and a gross weight too. But we need good data, not memory, if we are to truly do good analysis and make effective recommendations. Furthermore, good data on all species is really important. Good observations on year class recruitment or recruitment failure is also important.

I mentioned earlier that there is a food limitation. Your observations are evidence of that. Lets say your crappie are 70 RW (just hypothetically), what this means is that last year they were missing 30% of what they needed for maintenance at 100 RW. Give or take 3% or so. Let's say your pond produces the food required to support 150 lbs/crappie of crappie (just hypothetically). The support they need (in Minnesota) adds up to around 0.8 lbs of ingested animal dry matter. So around 120 lbs/acre. If they weigh 150 lbs/acre, you can rest assured they are getting it. But they needed (120/0.70=171 lbs) of animal dry matter. They get their ration from various pond organisms with various % dry matter content. The weighted average of that consumption would tell you the total weight of what they were eating. But lets just use shiners as an example. They are about 25% dry matter. So the difference of what they needed to be 100 RW is (51 x 4~200 lbs) of live shiners for each and every acre. Around a 4400 lbs shortfall of shiner forage overall for the BOW. If one didn't mind paying that every year then one could increase the carry capacity and fatten the hypothetical 150 lbs to 215 lbs. Now each and every year there after one would need to supplement the same 4400 lbs of shiners to maintain the same 215 carry capacity. Growth after the initial year will still depend on mortality. What ever (reasonable <50%) percent of the biomass dies, that percent will be replaced to fill the carry capacity. For BOWs that have reached carry capacity, highest growth will always be associated with the highest mortality. This is an immutable law that cannot be sidestepped without unlimited food supplementation (something that will lead to mass mortality anyway).

What is wrong with the BOW isn't really a food limitation. The condition of the BCP reflects the balance of food and the population numbers. There are too many BCP in the larger sizes to be supported in good condition. Their biomass at 100 RW requires more maintenance than the BOW can provide. Now it may well be producing a lot of food. Consider what 150 lbs of crappie need in terms of equivalent shiner consumption. Around 480 lbs equivalent or 9600 lbs of shiner equivalent produced annually. How much value is there(maybe $96,000)? All you have to do is bring your population into balance with this valuable natural production of food and the size and condition will be good. Mortality is the key to growth. You need to harvest a minimum of 20% of the biomass of > 8" BCP standing weight each year. Because it has been neglected for years, I recommended 37.5% this year. I don't think I would go beyond that number and would probably ease it back to 20 - 25% next year and following years.

There are ways to estimate population numbers (and biomass)from marking and recapture. I don't know how deep you want to go down the rabbit hole. Given the size of the BOW and the potential quantity of fish needing harvest, I think your plate is pretty full even getting close to the harvest needed. Whatever you do on that front should benefit the fish remaining even if you don't notice it by casual observation.
22 648 Read More
Questions & Observations Jump to new posts
Re: Red mouth Jason D Yesterday at 05:04 AM
I would guess temperature related due to where the bright red patches are. If it were crayfish the red spots wouldn’t be so uniform
3 100 Read More
Help Jump to new posts
Re: Help with everything JSkid2 Yesterday at 04:49 AM
This is all great information, FishinRod! I appreciate it so much and have provided me with information that I have been trying to find myself before stumbling onto this forum.

I ended up downloading google earth pro to my computer and the aerial photos go back to 1995. I'm still researching to determine when this area went through severe droughts and correlating with the historical photos. In my brief evaluation it looks like it may have dried up at one point in time around 2002.

I know you don't live in Florida but would a county extension office perform a water test? Or could I just use my pool test kit to determine basic readings for the common areas of interest?

That's a great idea about the meter. Will have to look and see what is closer. Do you think that by adding the aerator would help reduce regrowth of vegetation?


I definitely like the sound of fishing the pond throughout the year to sample it.
I can cast to the floating land mass and have gotten some bigger strikes whereas my kid cast about 6 feet from the bank and will catch extremely small BG and specks. This area they can reach with casting is usually covered by shadowing of trees. Of course every time i get a big strike i'm dealing with my kids tangled mess haha. There is plenty of overhanging tree branches that would suffice bass

I do like the idea of trying to remove a little bit at a time and think that I will bring that up to the group. one neighbor has contributed by buying peking ducks thinking that they will eat the duckweed and I don't think that is the best idea for weed control.

For killing the vegetation are you just talking about run of the mill round up?
10 242 Read More
Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Jump to new posts
Re: Managing black crappie jpsdad Yesterday at 02:49 AM
MnAngler,

After you had responded with the latest population estimates, the predator situation did not appear severely under represented. That is why I didn't make recommendations for stocking predators. If you notice the 5-7 group, they are not that numerous. They may occasionally be eaten by 4 lb LMB. Also they will grow into the 7-10 group when you harvest BCP in the 7-10 group. Same thing goes for members of the 7-10 group that you don't harvest. They will grow into the 10+ group. You do need some small BCP surviving to become 8" or 10" or 12" some day. You have a top heavy population. There isn't enough BCP in the bottom two classes to impact the overall health and condition of BCP by harvesting them or submitting them to predation. Just doesn't make sense to pick on them. Their Biomass is too small to have much of an impact. Leave them for you 4 lb LMB to eat and the remaining to grow up some day. What kind of condition are LMB in? Are they fat? I did also try to balance an LMB population to the BCP and a very modest population of BG. One thing that concerned me was whether, given the top heavy BCP population, they may be a bit thin. I would like to know more about their condition before I could make any recs for adding predators.

Anyways, again, the BCP population is top heavy. They are thin because the food is limited. If you take away 37.5% of the Biomass by taking half the fish in the top two tiers ... the population will replace that biomass. Right now ... they may make a length increment ... but they cannot add weight when they have already filled the carry capacity. They just stay the same weight while the RW declines and they grow a little longer. Predators cannot help a top heavy forage fish population. Predators consume YOY and juvenile sized fish primarily. You are going to have to be the predator of 8" to 12" BCP. Again, I am just not sure you need any more predators, that is why I am not making a recommendation to stock extra at this time.
22 648 Read More
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Otters Strike Again!
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