Firstly I looked at Jones’ website. They now heavily promote their long time in the business and numerous trained staff. I am not doubting their credentials. There are biologists and then there are BIOLOGISTS. Taking a biology class or some training does not make you a biologist. I have my own credentials. MS degree in aquatic biology specializing in algal identification for 50 yrs. Technically I am an algologist (phycology, phycologist). Algae analyses are my main form of income working with Universities, consulting firms, corporations and municipalities. I have authored and co-authored numerous related publications. As my part time interest I’ve worked with local clients managing ponds for 40 yrs. I specialize in natural holistic pond management and my pond clients and others call me The Pond Doctor. Bob Lusk calls me a microbiologist. I bought my first HSB in the early 1980’s from Rob Jones. I’ve been in this business longer than anyone at Jones Lake Management. I’m not bragging, just letting you know who you are getting advice from just as Jones does with their website. IMO you will get better less biased management advice here at Pond Boss compared to that at Jones who are in the business to sell their pond stuff as are all pond companies and fish farms.
To esshup’s comment question - “throw a monkey wrench into the mix, how does the pounds of fish change in a pond that is dyed vs. one that isn't dyed?”
Pond dye does what it is supposed to do in most cases; but not all – it reduces plants including ‘most’ algae susceptible to light filtering. Plants and algae especially the planktonic forms are the basis for biological production in a pond. It is the ‘grass’ that feeds the system. Suppressed plant growth means overall suppressed fish productivity. Dye can be at low or high concentration depending on dosage. It is relative The darker the water stain the less fish poundage (carrying capacity) that will be produced / supported. Pond dye can actually encourage and select for problematic and difficult to control algae. This is dependent on pond conditions, nutrient basis and amount of dye used. It is somewhat similar to over usage of antibiotics and the resistance it creates for humans.
An all natural based fish pond will make for a cleaner swimming water feature. Adding nutrients of any form always adds a stimulus for more plant growth as plankton, attached algae and/or rooted plants. Note the nutrient based soil and fill water does have its own inherent nutrient basis that does work its way into the pond to give the pond its basic initial trophic (nutrient) condition. The Alkalinity concentration of the soil (lime) and as it influences the water, allows nutrients to more effectively stimulate plant growth.
Back to your pond fish.
Your ¼ ac pond especially if dye is used will not grow very many fish pounds i.e. less carrying capacity. Now if dye is used, the dye reduces the food chain which it is designed to do – to reduce the forms of plants that are the pond’s food basis for fish production. My experience or estimate is dye at label recommendations reduces the total fish poundage that a pond can produce to about ½. This is where esshup is going with his comment. Feeding the larger fish pellets compensates for lack of plants and if you add pellets then the added pellet food then grows fish. This becomes a double, sharp, edged sword. REMEMBER adding any organics to the pond from tree leaves, animal waste (bird poop), land runoff or fish food that are ALL forms of organics to increase the pond’s nutrient load. Annual Nutrient accumulation causes more plants of some form or another to grow. Plant herbicides just kill the growth temporarily and do not reduce nutrients. Dead plant decay then recycles those plant bound nutrients. It is a natural cycle, growth - death - decay - regrowth. Pond aging is the result.
Nutrient accumulation is the cause of the pond aging process – more nutrients are always wanting to grow more plants that live grow and die to make more bottom muck / sludge and thus it fills in the basin. These nutrient stimulated plant growths could be some of the problem algae that are unaffected by using pond dye.
No matter what you do to your pond Nature has something that will eventually grow there and you may not like it due to the new conditions they present. Pond Capacity
Your ¼ ac pond without dye with all natural food production IMO will likely grow around 60 total pounds of fish. Using blue dye and no added forms of fish food,,,, the ¼ ac will be lucky to have a total of 30 total lbs of fish. This is especially true if the water is clear as in visibilities of 4 to 7ft. Clear water is a sign that nutrients in the water column are present in a low amount. Dye used with fish pellet food and bottom aeration used then maybe(?) you could get 80-100 total pounds of fish in the 1/4ac. You are the manager and controller. With just 30 to 60 lbs of fish in ¼ ac is why I highly suggested using mostly the sport fish that do not reproduce. Thus the pond will grow and support fewer LARGER fish who are growing on the pond’s limited amounts of food rather than having lots of smaller fish reproducing with total numbers equaling your pond’s total fish poundage.
OR - with stocking Jones’ plan of more fish and their recommendation of bi-annually adding minnows (adds more nutrient based food into the system) to keep the suggested reproducing fish growing. Adding minnows is not much different than adding fish food. – both are nutrient based additions to the pond. Again both enhancing the nutrient basis enhancing the aging of the pond.
This is Jones stocking plan for ¼ ac. FHM 10 lbs, GSH 5 lbs, LMB 30, HSB 15, BG 100, HYBG 50, RES 50, CC 50 GC 2. Sport fish number is 30,15,100,50,50,50 = 295fish. In general, if all live is 295/960oz(60 lbs) = 3.2 oz each as the total carrying capacity. The all natural food produced in a ¼ac pond does not grow enough food to feed all those fish for them to achieve decent sizes. Plus the fishery is adding many new fish each year due to numerous fish reproducing.
When using my plan you can always later switch to some form of the Jones plan. However once you add normal reproducing sport fish there is no way to get them back out when they are a problem or are unwanted unless you totally renovate the pond which Jones can gladly do for you.
Stocking numbers. Your management plan (dye, no dye, pellets, no pellets) will determine how many fish to stock for producing 30 to 60 lbs of carrying capacity of fish. Planning now for what fish to use and what sizes to hopefully be present to compose the carrying capacity is how you go about finding what and how many to stock. Of course this assumes all their stocked fish do survive after stocking for which ever plan you use. A big IF.
Normally for a balanced predator:prey ratio plan for predators,,,,, the HSB (predators) will be close 15% (0.15) of the carrying capacity weight when the predators are relying on all natural food production. I will use 60 lbs as your final fish weight in an all natural ¼ ac pond. 60 lbs X 0 .15 = 9 pounds of HSB each at one lb (12”-13”). This can be 9 to 12 one pound fish or three or 4 HSB each weighing around 3 lbs. In this plan, I would stock 9 to 12 HSB, 20-30 specklebelly(SBS) and some FHM/GSH. Actually if the stocking includes specklebelly who have very limited reproduction, it would be best to have the HSB to always remain at the smaller 1 lb sizes to more effectively control most all the offspring as young small fish produced by the few specklebelly females present in a normal stocking allotment. Specklybelly (SBS) allotments typically are around 90%-95% male fish. Note – I think Jones does not continuously have SBS. Often they are sold out especially when order is placed too late.
OR for another optional plan,,,,,, stock just 20-25 HSB and only FHM/GSH you could probably soon have around 20 to 30 one pound HSB. That many HSB as aggressive fish could easily and quickly (1-2yrs) eliminate all the FHM & GSH. Thus no HSB growth. Feed them pellets and they could after several years each of the HSB could weigh close to 2 to 4 lbs. Appropriate food of any sort grows fish. Lack of enough food = no growth. Remember when using HSB is it best to “ladder stock” some every few years to maintain a few smaller predators to better consume small new specklebelly sunfish that survive the fry /fingerling stage to be one yr old fish. As the pond ages angling and some natural fish mortality will occur to where the HSB are fewer number. As I note below you may find that the HSB,SBS minnow fishery balance best works in your small pond with only a few (just 2 to 5) HSB in the pond. Periodic ladder stocking of HSB helps keep the pond fishery in a better balance of prey – predator. HSB fight extremely hard and when caught in mid summer’s warm water they are known to die of sheer exhaustion. Smaller HSB are the best sizes for controlling the limited numbers of small sizes of specklebelly sunfish.
After a couple years, my guess is it will not take very many HSB to control the reproduction of SBS and still have some annual production of FHM/GSH. I am thinking that it would take only 2-4 HSB in the pond who are able to grow by eating the small SBS and some minnows. Always be watchful of the numbers of small SBS and numbers of FHM/GSH and then add or remove HSB so you always have some annual natural reproduction of FHM/GSH and do not have to regularly buy minnows. When minnow numbers are noticeably low the pond has too many predators; remove some HSB. IMO you always want enough minnows present to keep the HSB staying at a good body weight and size even if this size stays constant. No or too few FHM/GSH means too many predators – remove some HSB until some minnows are always present. Adding some dense big areas of habitat for minnow refuge hiding areas in the back end of the pond will help small fish survive predation for a longer period of time. IMO use types of habitat that can be relatively added or removed based on the numbers of small fish that you want to be present. More dense habitat = more minnow survival.
Examples of types of habitat to add
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92463#Post92463MINNOW FORAGE
For your minnow stocking this can be done two of several ways. Stock as Jones suggests FHM 10lbs & 5 lbs GSH. They say stock all fish at once. This allows for immediate and quick consumption of the initial stocking of minnows. This is a profit maker for fish sellers.
If it was my pond, and usually suggested here on the PB Forum, I would in Spring first stock minnows as 2-3 lbs FHM and 1 pound GSH. Allow them to reproduce all summer that can often result in a total minnow production of close to 40 lbs of minnows in your small 1/4ac. And then in fall,,, stock the HSB and specklebelly. OR another very good option is first add 2-3 lbs FHM & 1 lb GSH and all the 20-30 specklebelly. Specklebelly will grow 2X to 4X by fall. Then in fall 2024 or spring of 2025 stock the 9-12 HSB. HSB sometimes have poor survival when stocked depending on when stocked and their prior handling conditions. Lots and lots of the all prior summer long minnow production as a pond FULL of small forage allows the HSB to grow from ( 5”-7” as 2 oz) in May 2025 to 12”-15” in just one year (one pounders!!).
Yellow Perch Option
YP --- you will not get all female YP from Jones. To my knowledge they do not do that form of selling YP. IMO for what esshup suggests, you will have difficulty gathering TN lake caught female YP as this requires some significant effort and fish sexing knowledge. These are not techniques for the average pond owner. As an option as law changes you can add some mixed sex YP from Jones or add male/female YP later in the pond history. HSB when maintained as suggested numbers will effectively control reproducing YP populations. NOTE – The SBS will each year produce some young of year, thus you will get your chance to have some fish reproducing that “is really fascinating to you”. You will also have some annual FHM/GSH reproduction to watch for and manage. Keeping my reduced stocking plan SUCCESSFUL with a good fish balance in your ¼ ac pond will be plenty of a pond management challenge for you without having numerous fish species reproducing to try and juggle to maintain a good balance for a swimming recreational pond.
Keep us informed as to how the pond progresses with whatever stocking plan you use. We here at the PB Forum are always wanting to learn more about what happens with ponds of our PB members.
