Pond Boss Forums Thread Like Summary - Hybrid Black Crappie vs Bass in new Pond

I have a 3-acre Pond that is only about 3 years old and last spring I stocked it with about 3 gallons of Fat Head minnows, 300 Yellow Perch, 100 Red Ear, and 40 White Amur. This pond was designed primarily for swimming, so there is no cover or weeds for the fish to hide in. By late summer, the FH minnows had propagated quite heavily. My plan was to wait a year (or maybe 2?) to allow the Perch and Red Ear to propagate before adding some predator fish. I was thinking about either the Hybrid Black Crappie or Small/Large Mouth Bass. I don't want the Crappie to take over, but I also don't mind occasionally inviting some friends over for a fishing party if that will be needed. Or would it be better to add some bass instead? Also, I want to be sure that the Perch and Red Ear have had sufficient time to spawn so they won't be all eaten when I add the predator fish.

Looking for advice on what predator fish to add and when!

IMO in the near future, you should not need to use Aquathol granules even in the beach to control the 'small / narrow leaf pondweed' because with 13 grass carp /ac the pond should be or will soon be completely denuded of submerged vegetation edible by GC. The activity of even 8-10 adult GC per acre will eat all small pondweed. However over time the continual build up of nutrients in the pond will eventually result after the introduction of some form of "plant" / algae growth that the GC will not eat and not effectively control. The good thing of too many GC is the pond will eventually very likely have a high concentration of suspended sediment as muddy 'murky' water that also with the pond dye prevent "almost" all current forms of underwater "plant" types of growths. In my experience, all of nature's natural activities, such as waterfowl, will eventually introduce some form of plant/algae that will tolerate the current murky, blue water conditions. Nature abhors a vacuum when fertility, water and lack of competition are present.

Pond Dye Stain
Pond dye / stain even when used as relatively dark hues can still have 'good' light penetration. Why???? Pond dye was designed to limit or reduce primarily the RED and Orange wavelengths of sunlight and the dye allows other light wave lengths to penetrate such as yellow, green, blue, indigo and violet. Usually if you can see something in the clear water 4 ft deep, you should still be able to see that object 3-4ft deep. Pond dye does not really function the same as does suspended detritus and plankton that tend to reduce all light wavelengths penetration.

Developers of Aquashade colorant "claim" that using the dye at a higher concentration than 1 ppm (1gal/million gal) is not much more effective at reducing vegetation. However some pond management companies "claim" dye concentrations more than 1ppm produces better overall plant control results and they have to return to treat the pond less frequently. The "jury" is still out on this topic. I find that some plant / algae species are less effected by the shade of the colorant - mainly blue. The good thing about the dye is it naturally dissipates over time by 1. evaporation, 2. chemical decomposition of the organic dye, 3. fading from UV exposure,, and 4. dilution. Basically no chemical residue from its usage.

Bottom aeration is very good, important and useful for a pond's overall health - as "happy water". IMO and experiences with bottom aeration and pond water circulation and black sediments testing is,,,, - the aerator water currents do not mix oxygenated sediment surface water down below the surface layer of the sediment. Mixing of the pond's top layer surface sediments is very important for getting the quickest decomposition of the organic sediments and minimizing the muck accumulations.

Again who is your fishery consultant?
The water clarity should be actually measured and recorded at least a few times during each open water season for best resulting information for long term pond management esp swim ponds. Water clarity trends will definitely occur.

Do you know the specific type of weeds (specie) that were killed? This will help a lot to determine how well the GC will eat them. Those GC are like you when you go to the salad bar. Some items are not eaten probably due mostly to flavor and texture. From my experiences with many GC I am convinced not all GC have the same weed eating preferences. Some will even prefer eating fish pellets. Most delicate weeds are always eaten first. GC will do their job, however you may not like the end results esp in a pond mainly for swim / recreation.

Trying to net out GC will give you a real good education as to how difficult they are to remove from a pond. Easy to put in very difficult to remove. They quickly become smart at avoidance for the attempts used against them. GC you bought had been previously exposed and educated to netting and nets. They also are very good jumpers at leaping over nets. I doubt you will ever catch one with a net. The clearer the water the harder it is to get the GC out.

FYI - FA grows and thrives on only the excess nutrients not being used by any other plants. Generally the more other plants there are in the pond the less FA will be present and the clearer the water becomes. The amount of FA growing tells anyone with the right knowledge there are excess and relatively the amount of nutrients present not being used by some other type of plant competitor.

If it was my pond with my youngsters swimming in a pond, regardless of the product label, I would not be using herbicides and algaecides in the pond and thus frequently exposing their thin tissue mucus permeable membranes to undue chemicals. We get plenty of chemical / pesticide exposure in our daily lives which is a good reason to avoid creating undue more chemical exposure in an active swim pond.
Cutrine products are a copper based algaecide. Copper is a heavy metal. It does not rot up nor deteriorate in the ecosystem. Look it up. Every ounce applied will be in the pond sediments in one form or another until those sediments are removed. Copper can build up in the sediments depending on how much has been applied. They neglect to tell that on the label. When sediments are saturated with copper, the copper ions will stay up in the water column that results in other eco-problems. Been there dealt with that problem which is where I learned it. IMO Tilapia are a much better ecofriendly algae FA management tool. Plus each fish removed at the end of the year REMOVES from the pond all the incorporated nutrients esp Phos and nitrogen present in that fish. Nutrient removal is key to lower plant production.

Yes you post about hybrid crappie. Where do you plan on buying them? They are not a common fish at fish farms. Very difficult find. If you want a long term clear water pond I suggest that you learn about top down and bottom up fishery management involving concepts of trophic cascades.

There's no downside to using the dye providing your main focus isn't on growing fish. If it was, then you have to feed them an artificial food because the dye knocks out the majority of the bottom of the food chain.

A customer has a 1/4 ac pond that they just have for fish. They use so much dye in it that if any water splashes up, it's blue too. Think of a dark Tidy Bowl blue. They feed the LMB and BG in there. Both are feed trained.

If you V-cut and unzip the blood line, the filets cook up much better.

Visibility is still a good 24" in the pond. It's their only pond.

Fish Existing Stock -

You will NOT buy hybrid crappie anywhere in Ohio.

For yellow perch of 2”-4” stocked in Apr-May 2025 at 100/acre into a new pond, growth of some will be 6”to 8” long after one year and definitely capable of spawning and producing a 2026 crop of YP. I have seen 5" YP with eggs. For RES added in Spring of 2025 there can easily be new RES produced in 2026.

You will very rarely find SMB at your current fish provider - Remlinger. I am in a co-op with Remlinger thus I am quite familiar with their Farm activities. Only on very rare occasions do they sell SMB. SMB are very hard to find for sale about anywhere during Spring fish sales – when SMB are rarely available they usually sell out in Fall. SMB are easier to find in Fall but still difficult to locate for a Fall stocking. Usually stocking SMB with YP and RES often leads to good reproduction and good survival of young SMB. SMB when reproducing and young smallies are recruited they can eventually deplete YP populations when good habitat is lacking.

After several years of reproduction and the lack of adequate SMB harvest, reproduction, recruitment and initial adult SMB they as a popu9lation will IMO soon over eat (deplete) all the FHM and then they usually resort to eating about all the young survivors of YP and RES WHEN no cover nor weeds are present. Thus after the original stocked YP and RES die of old age (7-9yrs) , SMB then become the remaining main fish in the pond. I have seen this happen in ponds similar to your plan. At this point it is difficult and costly to rebuild the forage food base for an existing overabundant SMB population. HOWEVER - SMB by themselves in a pond can create a good casual fishing pond for some good, active catch rates for anglers. However sizes of SMB will usually be 8”-12” long based on the numbers of SMB present. This type of fishery would be similar to that of LMB by themselves in a pond - see later.

Other insightful PB forum members here are as usual also ARE very welcome to provide some of their ideas for a successful swimming / fishery pond with existing FHM, YP and RES .

Option 1
If it were my swimming type pond and for the least amount of needed efforts and fishery management, I would stock in Spring 2026 8-10 lbs of golden shiner AND 40-50 maybe 60 Hybrid Striped Bass HSB (13-20/ac) of 6”-8” as a preferred size for their better chance of survival. That size HSB are almost only available in Spring from your current provider. Initially stocking more HSB numbers than 40-60 in 2026 will IMO more likely and quickly lead to a eventual depletion (in 4-5yr) about all small fish as each HSB grows bigger and each year each eats more and more of the small newly produced YP & RES. No cover nor habitat allows HSB 50-60 HSB (16-20/ac) to eventually and effectively capture all edible small fish. This does depend on conditions.

The addition of 10 lbs of golden shiner (GS) will hopefully delay the eventual depletion of YP/RES as old original stockers die of old age and natural and angler mortalities.

RES are not prolific spawners, they usually say in deep water and are ‘tricky’ for the novice anglers to catch. It is a good probably you never catch or see RES in a mainly swimming pond that has adequate or strong predatory pressure. Again it does depend.

I would not wait until 2027 to stock HSB because during the then 2 years of reproduction from YP and RES as they would / could become IMO TOO abundant after 2 years of spawning and the 40-60 HSB would maybe not adequately decrease numbers of those abundant now juvenile size 5”-6” YP and RES enough to create as good of a ‘higher’ quality fishery. IMO the fishery would then be IMO substandard. You can wait until 2027 to stock the HSB but the chance of an over population of primarily smaller sizes of YP / RES is more likely to occur.

Rarely, it can happen in unique conditions, but if over the time of 4-6 years and the YP are or become very numerous Without Pellet Feeding , using the HSB as only predator and the anglers are very rarely catching 10”-12” YP, then you could add another stocking of HSB of 15-21 (5 -7/ac). This is called ‘ladder stocking’. This will then increase the predatory pressure upon the young YP and allow remaining YP to better grow to larger sizes of 10”-13”. RES from several experiences the RES are said to rarely ever become over abundant whenever hungry, predators present.

Option 2.
Ladder stock the HSB by first in Spring 2026 stocking just 26 – 33 HSB(8-11/ac) with the golden shiners. Watch the results of their resulting growths AND the numbers and sizes of YP&RES that anglers are catching. If after 3 - 4 years AND most of the YP are only 6”-8” long, and not 9”-10” long then stock another 10 to 15 HSB (4-5/ac) for a total of around 50 HSB / acre.

Option 3.
Using LMB as the predator with YP and no habitat /cover, the reproducing LMB quickly in several years eliminate young , juvenile YP and RES from the community.
This is not an all bad of a situation for a mainly swim pond. Having just LMB / SMB in a swim pond often, but not always, results in more clear water conditions due to a type of cascade management. LMB or SMB can easily exist by themselves in a pond, they just will not grow bigger than 12”-13” by mainly utilizing their reproduction and invertebrates as the main food source.
At this point in pond history with just mainly LMB or SMB present you could add crappie. This would be a backup stocking plan using crappie with the LMB after they have become very well established as 8”-12” bass and when YP-RES are not present in angler catches. This provides a reproducing panfish that chances are quite good they probably will NOT overpopulate due presence of a strong reproducing population of 8”-12” aggressive LMB as predators. However this plan with crappie could be doable but it is a risky gamble and would not be my preferred form of fishery. In this plan, Crappie would not have minnow forages as foods except for occasionally some small fingerling bass. This is because the over abunndant LMB have decimated the forage fishes. However,,, having low numbers of crappie per acre, they can survive and grow quite well by primarily utilizing the Crustacean zooplankton as their main food source that usually results from an annual presence of a strong population of LMB as just smaller LMB (8”-13”)..

Whichever or combination of stocking option you chose, it would be very beneficial for all readers here and even new PBoss Forum pond owners, if you could periodically return with updates of the progress of your 3 acre swim and fish pond. Whatever fish stocking plan you decide to use and how it develops over time will be very educational for all those interested.

Questions are welcome.