Pond Boss Forums Thread Like Summary - New pond build in SC

Hey Folks -

New members (Jim and Jo) and we are building a new pond on our place in SC.

It was an abandoned pond from about 25-30 years ago (maybe longer) - the shape was sort of still there but was 90% overgrown. The pond will be roughly an acre and will only be about 6' deep on the deep end.

We have cleaned the area up and dug the pond back out.

I have more questions than I have answers and will start reading many of the threads.....

I have pics on my phone and will log on with that and try to populate this thread - and I will then BEG for help and advice.


Many thanks!

Jim

I fully agree with 'liquidsquid' of "warn you about the fish you choose in the pond need to cooperate with your goals". If swimming is one of your goals, don’t stock bluegills or pumpkinseeds."

My experience is these two species do not always bite swimmers unless the fish are lacking adequate food items or swimmers are wading or resting in the spawning area during spawning time. Or as in liqidsquid's case you happen to get an overly aggressive bitting prone fish. Sunfish guarding a nest do become defensive. Redear sunfish are more deep water dwellers and less prone to bite, however they can occassionally bump intruders who are in their nesting area.

I would add to the NO list - the 'standard' hybrid bluegill (HBG aka BGXGSF); thay tend to bite more than BG due to the aggresive green sunfish genetics. For stocking this new pond, I highly suggest Jim & Jo do good diligent home work for stocking this new pond based on their goals so they do not have to then pay the infamous "Dumb Tax" as it is known in the Pond Boss Family. Dumb Tax is basically later saying " wish I would not have done that" and then paying some sort of penalty be it monitary and/or having big regret. Once spawning fish are introduced into a pond it becomes very, very difficult to almost impossible to get all the breeding pairs of them out. Thus the next spawning cycle renews the population problem. That is now why I like for certain pond GOALS of adding fish that do not reproduce.

My first suggestion is not rely on what a fish farm suggests and wants to sell you as fish for pond stocking. Their business, especially the less experienced sales staff, is to sell fish not to accomodate or fully understand your ultimate goals. IMO fish farms are good at growing and using small fish but not so good at fully knowing their behaviors and Pros & Cons as adult fish.

IMO get several ideas here from well experienced PBoss members as pond owners and managers and then Jim&Jo should decide what goal or goals best suit their long term plans for the pond. A one acre pond is not cheap endeaver to completely have to renovate the fishery if it is no longer desired due to unwanted problems. Thus do it RIGHT the first time by knowing a lot of the possible options and the Pros and Cons of each plan. Know how each fish specie behaves and how it fits into the fishery community. All this is especially true if you have never first lived with a pond for numerous years. Living with a pond is like living with a marrage partner. One does not get a full understanding of the individual quirks until they have the full time arrangement. Same goes with a pond and you are saying "I wish I would not have done that" - a Dumb Tax.

Reminder for readers Jim's goals are: "My fish goals are very basic. Healthy balance between bluegill / shell crackers and bass. Sounds like these fish along with minnows - is the starting point. I don’t lean one way or the other. I don’t need 2 lb sunfish nor 10 lb bass. I’d like to strive toward a healthy balance that makes for good panfish fishing and the opportunity to catch a 5 lb bass."

A good suggestion from me is subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine. Tell them to start with the 2025 Sept-Oct issue. Read the good article by Dr. Wes Neal - "Setting Your Pond Management Goal and Objectives, pg 22-24." This well versed article focuses on a BG-LMB based fishery. However there are other good fish stocking optioins that can make a pond a success when the goals are different. If we are lucky some members here will provide some other fishery options than the standard BG-LMB plan.

I will start with a different type of pond stocking option that is now being used in NW Ohio and recommended by a local USDA Soil and Water Conservation Agency. For a mainly swimming pond stock only hybrid striped bass (HSB). If you want them to become large toward trophy sizes feed them pellets, stock fewer numbers and or provide lots of forage foods. Know their full diet preferences.
A. They do not bother swimmers,
B. They do not reproduce to ever cause over population problems,
C. They do not need to have any forage fish to grow to become 5 lbs+ providing: they receive an appropriate amount of pelleted food for healthy body growth, and not too many are crowded per acre. Seek good reliable experienced advice on this topic.
D. They could thrive with just redear sunfish (RES) as a forage fish. Learn all the Pros and Cons of RES.
E. They are good as dinner guests.
F.. When on the other end of a fish pole, they are very, very strong opponents. IMO inch per inch the hardest fighting freshwaer fish bar none.
G. They do not need lots of habitat. IMO they do not need any habitat except good water quality - aka Bob Lusk's "happy water". They are primarily an open water living fish.
I. They swim or hang out in groups that allows one to more easily assess the numbers and sizes that are present.
J. They will live okay in warm water ponds as far south as Texas although they grow best with higher TDS (total dissolved solids).
K. They can be caught on both artificial and live baits although frequent angling can make them and LMB become harder to catch i.e. hook smart. No fish likes to be jerked by the jaw.
L. Best survival rate of stockers is the 6"-8" lengths. survival of stockers can be variable depending on how well they are handled before stocked both at the farm and the buyer. This also applies to any fish for stocking.
M. Excessive feeding of pellets can cause more plant / algae growth, reduced water clarity and lower water quality conditions. The more pellets added per acre per year will ultimately create more pond fertility and more weed / algae growth. Once fertility is in the pond it is very difficult to remove those nutrients that are causing plant problems. This becomes VERY IMPORTANT for shallow ponds where sunlight reaches a larger percentage of the pond bottom.
N.. If you have too many HSB harvest some and when you want more add some. The fewer HSB there are per acre eating primarily all natural foods then the larger size each one will become. The pond owner with HSB having no reproducion can better control the growth rate based on food inputs.
O. Life span can be up to 15-20 years providing they are handed properly by the educated and forewarned anglers during mid- summer angling sessons. Catching HSB during the warmest part of the summer in water >high 70's - 80+F causes deaths after release because HSB will fight to their death in warmest water that has low dissolved oxygen sauration. Resuscitation is then difficult.
P. Life span is shorter when grown in warmer more Southern ponds.
Q Since they do not reproduce and have a limited life span it is much easier to later completely change the direction of the fishery community.
R. They blend in well when in a mixed fish community.
S. Once they are in the pond,,,, the fishery can later be changed with minimal problems compared to LMB; providing the new fish are appropriate sizes as food items or usng the new fish as for developing a panfish or for adding a new different predator to the fishery. Removing all HSB involves smart angling or waiting until the old ones die naurally.
T. HSB have a smaller mouth size than LMB and SMB so they are not as a good of a predator of medium sizes of BG and other wide bodied fishes.
U. HSB Being predatory they will eat any new small fish that are introduced from unwanted sources.
V. If one wants different size classes or groupings of the HSB new ones can be periodically added to the pond.
W Correct stocking density depends on one's GOALS. Seek several good stocking opinions from experienced well meaning pond owners for this topic.
X. Generally the more numbers per acre that you stock in the pond the fewer the chances they will grow to be trophy sizes.
Y. If you do not want to feed HSB pellets they will survive eating 'bugs", invertebrates and foods that will fit into their mouth opning size. Just eating ALL natural pond grown foods ,,,,the HSB will likely only grow to be 10" to maybe 14" long depending on HSB density and amount of available foods.
Z. They are not the best predator to use with reproducing sunfish(BG) although if I have seen them thrive in a pond with standard hybrid BG and or yellow perch or redear sunfish.
AA. They should grow well to sizes larger than 13"-14" with golden shiners (GSH) as a forage fish. Add or remove HSB to obtain a desired self perpetuating GSH population. GSH can sometimes live 6-8 yearsand grow to 10"+. Thus with good and careful HSB management the largest GSH of 8"-10" long will eventually die of old age and leave behind smaller individuals. This assumes the HSB population has the correct size classes to heavily crop the 6" shiners and the numbers of the largest GSH coming into the fishery are minimized. Learn about "ladder stocking" for the goals of the fishery.
BB. If one first starts the pond stocking with just HSB other fish species such as BG, RES, HBG, YP and even LMB can later be added whenever desired providing the new fish are big enough to avoid predation by the HSB.
CC. Here is another link for more information from PBoss Forum members about HSB from the Common Pond Q&A Archives for more in-depth learning about HSB:
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92629#Post92629

As I think of more pros and cons plus some enhancements I will return to this thread.
Maybe I can convince the PBoss magazine editor maybe we can write an informative article or 2 articles about HSB??? Subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine.


Another fishery option for some panfishing with fewer problems is to stock is adding only male BG (see below) . I and co-authors wrote 3 articles in PB magazine about this topic. Pros and Cons are numerous for male only BG topic. Adding RES with male BG will very likely produce hybrids also known as Specklebelly Sunfish (SBS).

Further reading about using only male BG in ponds:
Mar-Apr 2006 Pond Boss Magazine. BEHEMOTH BLUEGILLS IN SMALL PONDS. In Part I, Cody, Condello and Baird provide the necessary details of how to accurately sex bluegills as the first step to produce trophies in small waters.

May-Jun 2006. GROWING BEHEMOTH MALE BLUEGILLS; Part II. Cody, Condello and Baird present info about size, growth, stocking densities, and choosing proper male bluegills.

Jul-Aug 2006. THE ART OF MANAGING BEHEMOTH MALE BLUEGILLS. Cody, Condello and Baird conclude their three part article about raising trophy male bluegills. Discussed are best size of ponds, natural foods, supplemental feeding, angling implications, females only, and creative ways to use male bluegills. A standard weight table for bluegill is included.

There is a lot to know about growing high quality bluegill in ponds. These are threads from the PB Archives of Common Pond Questions

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=189988#Post189988

See in this link all the good informative pond management topics in the PBoss archives of Common Pond Q&A
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=22&page=1

An essay on Bluegill harvest
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=273316#Post273316

Sexing BG and LMB
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=258505#Post258505

Step 1. for any large pond project - get your spouse on board first.

It appears you are already more of an expert than several of us in the forum!

I’ll start by saying I didn’t read all the posts. Just wanted to warn you about the fish you choose in the pond need to cooperate with your goals. If swimming is one of your goals, don’t stock bluegills, hybrid bluegills or pumpkinseeds. Both are fearless little shits that will take any opportunity to give your a good bite it hopes that the hair or nipple on you is good eating. Bluegill especially, as they can get large enough to go from startling to painful.

I put a single bluegill in my pond a while back, and that little jerk would chase me around the pond to bite me. The problem with water clarity is it could find me easily. Now I have pumpkinseed, which I enjoy swimming with, but are not quite as bad. A nibble here and there I can live with, but my son and his girlfriend aren’t as thrilled.

Welcome Jim - the archives are the best place to start.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=22&page=1

Welcome Jim

Jim & Jo - Is the pond full of water???. It is a good idea to do an alkalinity water test and have it done by a swimming pool company or a domestic water treatment company. Even a pet store aquarium alkalinity test kit will be a starting point for getting a fairly accurate measure of alkalinity. Alkalinity of the water has a big influence on what amount of natural production the pond will produce, be it plants, critters and fish.

Congrats on the new pond!

I really like that you already have your groundcover in place and growing.

Six feet is a bit shallow for SC, I fear you will be battling algae and plants in a few years after your fertility increases.

If you are using a well to supplement your water level, then perhaps you have a small watershed feeding the pond and a dam over-topping rain event is unlikely? If so, could you raise the berms a little for another 2' of depth? You could always put a sleeve on your overflow pipe to raise the water control level.

I just realized that no matter what your watershed area, you are still in the potential path of a hurricane. Since you have a well for supplemental water, perhaps you could draw down the pond in the day before a hurricane forecast. If it misses you, then you have the ability to put back the water.

(Just thinking out loud above.)

Good job on running electricity to the edge of the pond. Your shallow pond is going to get warm in the summer. That water will be capable of holding less oxygen, so your fish will be much happier and safer with some aeration. The electricity only to the shallow end is not a problem. Even the weighted airlines are not that expensive for a pond your size. I would recommend doing an optimal aeration design, even if that means spending a bit more money. It will be well worth it in the long term.

Have fun on your next several steps with your new pond!

I would highly recommend reading some of the aeration threads, you will quickly be able to pick up the concepts and the "lingo".

Basically, aeration systems pump air and fountains pump water. It is MUCH more efficient to use an air diffuser near the bottom of the pond to circulate water to be aerated compared to a fountain system.

Of course, if the boss lady wants a fountain and you have electricity to the edge of the pond, then by all means add a fountain as a small supplement to your aeration system. Even the hard core "fish guy" pond managers enjoy some nice aesthetics at their ponds!

You didn't really answer my question about the size of your watershed into the pond. Maybe take a sharpie and make a water level gauge using a PVC pipe and stick it in the pond in a place you have easy access. Next time you have a big rain in the forecast, note your water level. Then use one of the apps (or a rain gauge) to evaluate the volume of rain at your property. After a few rains, you should have a decent grasp on x inches of rain equals y feet of water gain in the pond. A 2" rain will be MORE than double a 1" rain, due to the water that soaks into the ground.

Hopefully, that will help you manage your pond in the event that an overtopping event becomes likely.

What are your main goals for the pond? If you start a new thread on that you might get some helpful advice. A dock (no diving rule at your depth) for grandchildren swimmers and boat launches might be nice. Or even a small beach area. It is easier to do some of those things before the pond has filled.

As to fish, you also might need to do your goals. You can usually put in your starter forage base (typically fathead minnows) when you have that little water in your pond. However, it might be a little late in the season for them. You probably need to locate your closest fish supplier and ask them when FHMs are available next spring - that will give you an estimate of when the water temps will be good for their survival.

BG are usually part of the fish goals (great forage for larger fish and good catching and eating for humans) in your area. However, they do nip swimmers if that is a more desired goal of the pond. However, there are substitutes for BG, as the experts will advise if you start a fish goals thread.

Finally, the test strips are usually just fine for basic water chemistry. However, a full analysis after the pond has been full for a while would probably be a wise investment.

Bill,

I like your idea with the HSB. There needs be a small fish to keep the insects down. What are your thoughts on this. For example, what minnows or other small fish might be appropriate for the OP's goals?

Suggstions were just options not reqirements. I tried to fully explain the possibilities of HSB to get you to think more in-depth about of your fishery goals for the new pond which you have now decided what will work best for you. BG-LMB can produce very good high quality fisheries when there is proper management. A good general fishing pond is a common practice with an average amount of minimal management efforts which seems to be your current goals. Do your homework for what is needed for a general fishing pond. The more proper management a fishery receives so goes the quality of the fishery.

Welcome, Jim — and congratulations on a great-looking pond site!

You’re asking excellent questions.

I noticed you mentioned that you plan to use the pond for swimming. We enjoy that in our pond as well, and it definitely plays into how you think about stocking and long‑term management.

You’ve asked a couple of times about a stocking plan—specifically which fish to stock first. Rod brought up goals, and I’ll try to add a little context to what I think he was getting at.

One of the very first steps in developing a pond management strategy is deciding on your goals. What species do you want in the pond, and what do you want each species to do for you? Are you hoping for a pond where you can occasionally catch a few big bass, or would you prefer an abundance of large bluegill for fun, frequent fishing? Your stocking recommendations will change quite a bit depending on those goals.

Really looking forward to following your pond journey.

I’m not one of the experts here, but there are plenty of folks on this forum with deep knowledge who can help you make great decisions as you go.

jpsdad - I fully agree with it would be good to pair HSB with something else as a "bug" consumer and possibly reproduce enough to provide some added forage fish.

Apparently I made my "HSB Only" post TOO lengthy. Actually truth be known, if one really "knows their stuff" a short article could be written about each one of my HSB items that I posted above (A - CC.). FYI - I have edited my 'HSB Only' post above at least 6 times since it was created.

Quick readers can easily forget specific items in a lenghty post. That is why Bob Lusk likes to keep his Pond Boss magazine articles relatively short. Although my philosophy is - 'lengthy' is better IMO,, as one can easily go back and review the details of "lengthy" as homework and refreshing their memory and info. IMO one really needs to read long posts several times and at different times to refresh one's memory about all the benefits of any topic and using mainly HSB by themselves or with possibly selectively chosen other fish for stocking in a mainly swimming pond that can also serve as a very good quality fishery. I do these same similar pond stocking suggestions frequently to new pond owners in my region who want their new pond for goals of aesthetics, swimming, domestic house water usage, and only very limited angling. I have several local pond owners who stocked their pond with only smallmouth bass (SMB). Those fisheries thrive.

Note above in my HSB lengthy post the items that I singled out as noted below, it included several items that suggested the option of adding other fish to the pond to stay with the intended goals of the owners Jim & Jo and anyone else wanting good pond conditions for swimming with some occassionally good angling.
Items:
D. They (HSB) could thrive with just redear sunfish (RES) as a forage fish. Learn all the Pros and Cons of RES.

Z. They (HSB) are not the best predator to use with reproducing sunfish(BG), although I have seen them also thrive in a pond with standard hybrid BG and or yellow perch (YP) or redear sunfish (RES). Additionally,,, IMO SBS is now another good option to use with HSB.

AA. They (HSB) should grow well to sizes larger than 13"-14" stocked with golden shiners (GSH) as a forage fish. Add or remove HSB to obtain a desired self perpetuating GSH population. GSH can sometimes live 6-8 years. Thus with good and careful HSB management the largest GSH of 8"-10" long will eventually die of old age and leave behind smaller individuals. This assumes the HSB population has the correct size classes to heavily crop the 6" shiners and the numbers of the largest GSH coming into the fishery are minimized. Learn about "ladder stocking".

BB. If one first starts the pond stocking with just HSB other fish species such as BG, RES, HBG, YP can later be added whenever desired providing the new fish are big enough to avoid predation by the HSB. The forum has a thread that provides the mouth gape of HSB so the best size of forage fish can be paired with the current body lehgths of HSB depending on one's goals for adding the new fish specie.

Also make note that I, near the end, I mentioned adding only male bluegills. Just several male only BG are capable of each year eating thousands of bugs, and invertebrates. However with male only BG, no reproduction and recruitment of small forage type fishes will occur. Another option for adding fish as "bug" consumers, the pond owner can each year buy some shiners or forage minnows. We know of many, many pond owners each year who buy minnows to feed the "bass". Those bait fish will comsume a lot of small invertebrates before they become fish food.

Jim - Remember that once you add BG and LMB you are stuck with them for the very long term. To my knowledge you cannot 'divorce' them from the pond unless you do a complete renovation. If the BG-LMB develop unwanted behavior, probably due to an unbalance or over reproduction,,, ask these experts if they will come and help you out with your pond fishery problem. IMO you will not need my help because all you have to do if unhappy is change course and then add those "unanimous, predictable" BG-LMB.

Before pulling the trigger, I suggest that you recontact each of those folks at Clemson and SC DNR as a re-evaluation and have them actually read my HSB suggestions for your pond stocking. Send them a link to this thread. Tell them I do not sell fish and I am an aquatic biologist (MS) by training with 3 graduate fishery science couses and 46 years of fishery management experience. My suggested use of HSB as the primary fish specie allows you, if unhappy to "shift gears" and do a later stocking of BG & LMB; whereas their suggested starting with a BG-LMB fishery means you are always stuck with BG and LMB regardless of how they perform in your pond. IMO no use paying the dumb tax when there is a good alternative plan that does allow, if desired, for an eventual BG-LMB fishery. No turning back with BG-LMB. Been there, experienced that. Life is all about choices and hopefully they are mostly wise choices.