Pond Boss Forums Thread Like Summary - Can I test for zooplankton?

My new 1/4 acre pond is about halfway full: ~6 deep in the deepest section. I added some FHM (maybe a few dozen) 3-4 months ago. I have not fed them. Seen none floating, so I assume they're fine (?) Regardless, it got me thinking that I'd like to test for zooplankton in general....how do I go about this? I googled it and got lots of highly involved scientific papers; I'd like to know if there's just a simple test I can do to see what's floating around in there....if anything...?

Thanks, and if this is a highly naive / newbie question, sorry....I'm learning!

IMO I'm not sure that going through all the effort and expense of trying to sample and microscopically look at zooplankton in the pond will be worth while and all that beneficial. Not all plankton nets have the same mesh size. The net I routinely use has 64um mesh. Other nets have 80um or 100um mesh sizes that capture only the larger types of plankton. I suggest nothing larger than 80-84um mesh size.

Generally a new pond quickly develops a decent phytoplankton and zooplankton community as soon as the pond gets water in it. However new pond water that is continually muddy / silty does inhibit quick development of plankton. Nature has many ways to introduce microscopic life forms into a pond. Adding water that the FHM came in, I guarantee you this added some tiny phytoplankton and some zooplankton such as protozoans, rotifers and small crustaceans that were too small for the minnows to eat.

Jbrown2004 - have you ever heard of anyone buying a plankton culture from a laboratory supply company and trying to get it established in their ponds?
This is possible and some fish farms sell these natural mixed plankton cultures.

Ewest - I even moved 500 gals of water from one pond to another with no luck even with 'ideal' circumstances. If you find out different I would like to know. Because I tried it 3 times under ideal conditions and it did not work.

CJBS2003 - Why do you think transplanting plankton from one pond to another doesn't work?

In my experience one can move plankton from one water body to another. There is lots of phytoplankton and some forms of zooplankton in each gallon of water “depending” on the conditions of the source water and where it is/was collected. Usually but not always ponds/lakes with what appears as good clean water with no surface blooms, it is generally okay to move water from what seems to be "ideal conditions”. Now - how well the ‘critters’ from the source water survive in the receiving water - that is a completely different matter. In many instances many of the things introduced into the receiving water will live providing they are not eaten or die because of a significant water chemistry change. What thrives in one pond may not survive in the chemistry soup of another pond. All ponds are different, just as all people are different. Each species has its own favorite growing conditions where it just continually ‘gets by’ or it thrives very well and can even create a bloom.

This is why I do not like to add water from one pond into another pond unless I know what is in the source water.

Not all pond owners are capable of doing the microscopic visual check of the source water. However I do this as life’s routine work. I know microscopically what is and can be in water. Thus as a precaution, I always dip net single or double rinse all the fish that I get from a fish farm before stocking them into MY pond. Just dumping someone else’s pond water especially from a fish farm into your pond is IMO risky business. Fish growing water often has low densities of problematic bluegreen and other species of algae year round. At certain times of the year the farms have significant water blooms - some problematic. This practice of putting someone's water directly into your pond can introduce or “seed” potential noxious algae problems from pond to pond.

Almost every fish farm buys some of their fish from other fish farms and this practice potentially spreads different types of microscopic items throughout the distribution network. Another example of this concept is waterfowl spreading some of the common fish parasites from lake to pond or pond to lake. We basically have no control of that, but we do have some control about moving around different pond waters. Another example is DNR’s recommendation of draining your boat’s live well water before entering a new water body.

No simple test. Can you work a microscope ? Contact Bill Cody !

See this thread.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=20172&Number=259527#Post259527

BJNick - I assume the SBS are for having some BIG nice panfish. If it were my new pond and considering your plans, I would stock the SBS or at least some of them in Spring with or soon after adding the FHM / GSH. I see no real good reason not to stock the SBS early with minnows to allow SBS to get some decent growth before adding the HSB in Fall. Note HSB are often sold out and not available in Fall and can still be stocked the next spring. Reasons - A. SBS will not be eating very many minnow fry and will be eating mostly the larger available foods that the FHM/GSH cannot eat. B. SBS may very likely be sold out in Fall. If you get HSB in Fall and no SBS, the HSB will be IMO too large when stocking some small SBS. C. If you would like to have a 2nd year class of SBS then add some extras (if available) in Fall. Those SBS in Fall would likely be only 1.5"-2.5" depending on the conditions where they were grown.

You have a pretty good idea of what is "gape limit". I think there is a PB thread that shows the mouth gape size for HSB. Someone might be able to find that thread for you/us. See this old thread where I deal with this topic.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=373075


IMO fish usually eat things smaller than their gape size because studies have shown it is most beneficial for predators to quickly as possible to capture and swallow the food item so another fish does not steal the food item; a common occurrence and technically called kleptoparasitisim. IMO - If smaller food items are readily available the predators most often choses smaller prey than their gape size. Behavior of prey also enters predation of sizes of food items eaten.

Pond Stocking - You are encountering a common problem. Fish sizes and fish species are not always available due to production limits and shortages to fish farms. Plus Jones is suggesting more FHM/GSH than IMO what you really need for a small 0.25 ac pond that already has some FHM stocked back in Oct 2024. You always have to remember fish farms make a lot of extra money selling lots of minnows and often push too many when no predators are initially stocked. Jones gave you a generalized blanket stocking amount for a 0.25 ac having new predators and for unwise newbee pond owners and assuming predators are stocked right away with the minnows. It is a business.

If you stock 5 lbs FHM and 2-3 lbs of GSH and no predators present this stocking should provide PLENTY of minnows by Fall when you stock some HSB as predators I have stocked 3 lbs of FHM in 0.25ac with fingerling YP and had plenty of minnows present by fall. Use the extra money dedicated to minnows to buy other sport fish. This plan is especially true if you initially pellet feed the SBS and or HSB when get them in Spring/Fall. My experience has been that if too many FHM are stocked with no predators to eat them, the pond quickly becomes over populated with to many small fish and they do not grow and stay around 1". Too many new baby FHM OVEREAT the natural foods (zooplankton) which results in very poor growth. This same thing basically happens with all fishes. Withgood ample spawning habitat present and no predators, you will be amazed at how many minnows will be present in Fall 2025 if you stock 3-5 lbs FHM and 2 lbs GSH and no predators to eat offspring. Provide the correct spawning substrate for GSH and the FHM.

If you stock SBS of any size if you can find them in Spring, they will grow well by eating mostly invertebrates - (myriads of insect larvae that quickly develops in a new pond). If you are able to add some pellets the SBS will grow faster. Then any size HSB that you can stock in Fall will be okay to survive. Ask if Jones sells smaller quantities than 40 lbs of pellets (5-10lbs). Buy a size appropriate for SBS and new HSB maybe 1/8"-3/16".

BJ - Mainly because you are in TN I would stock on Mar 15 if you can get the SBS for that delivery. I would stock the 2"-3". If you live at the pond, then see if you can get some (as in 3-4 lbs) of small size fish food (size 2mm-2.4mm) ) from Jones when SBS are delivered. If Jones will not sell you just 3-5 lbs of fish food, I will arrange with a local fish farm that will ship you some appropriate pellets for those 2"-3" SBS. Feed those SBS some good quality pellets and those SBS will be 6"-7.5" long by Oct 25 when HSB arrive. You may need to build a feeding ring round or rectangle to contain the ¼-1/2 cup of pellets that are used as feeding the amount once the SBS find the feeding area. Start adding just a small handful of pellets at first feed training until minnows learn the routine and lead the SBS by example. By June-July I would be increasing the size of the fish food to 4mm-5mm, thus you don’t want to initially buy a lot of first batch of pellets. The HSB will also get growing on those 4-5mm size pellets.

Use the unused money by buying the smaller SBS to find and install good habitat to help protect minnows when after HSB are added in the growing years of 3-5 and beyond .

If you don’t live at the pond the SBS should still grow well on the natural foods available in the pond and should be around 4”-5” by fall. If your pond water is murky all summer due to rain inflows it may take a little longer for SBS to finally find the feeding area, however minnows will find the pellet feed first and SBS will soon learn from the minnows for the feeding zone.

Your question was one of my favorite science projects in 5th grade.

Our class went and pulled samples from several natural water sources. We then put a few drops of water on a glass slide and then added a cover slip.

The organisms we could see with an inexpensive microscope were fantastic. The teacher then had copies from the scientific texts for the most common organisms so we got to identify them.

I still have an old microscope with German optics from the late 50's. I used it with my kids many times when they were doing new science concepts at school.

I don't know if you can find a decent, old microscope on ebay at a good price. If not, a cheap, new scope from Amazon with Chinese optics might be sufficient.

These days on the new ones, I suspect you can get an attachment to the eyepiece so you can take a picture with your cell phone. If you post your critter pictures to Pond Boss, I am pretty sure our experts can identify your organisms ... and the rest of us can get a nice tutorial from your pictures!

Good luck on your analysis!

HSB are not known to be major predators of lepomis (BG, RES, SBS etc) as shown in several studies. Obviously the larger the SBS are in comparison to the HSB the less potential for predation. If you can get SBS that are twice the gape limit of the HSB you will be good to go. If you are feeding the HSB and there are FH and GSH present, then predation by HSB on SBS should be minor even on small SBS.

If it were mine I would connect the two piles as a spread out expansive lengthy area maybe combining rocks, concrete pieces and brush. or tree tops. Note twiggy woody brush will degrade in several years and need to be replaced as i degrades. Install it with plans of replacement. Lots of log type structures are said to be very effective fish habitat. .
See this about Coarse Woody Habitat
https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/sites/default/files/topic/Fishing/Outreach_LitWoodyHabReviewWolter2012.pdf

I most certainly did this with Bill's guidance! I believe I bought 3 cultures of daphnia pulex from Carolina Biological supply. The first culture I seeded directly into my pond. The second culture, I seeded in a container with my pond water in it and kept it inside. The third culture, I seeded in a container with spring water. I initially used large containers filled with 2 gallons of water each (pond water [PW] and spring water [SW]). I did not use food in the PW culture as there was already some green algae (Bill had identified Dictyosphaerium subsolitarium as the predominate phytoplankton at the time) for them to feast on. The SW culture, I would add some yeast to a 20 oz bottle of water, then add a little yeast water for the daphnia to feed on.

After 5 days, the PW culture was doing quite well and had evidence of reproduction (if you looked real close, you could see them with the naked eye). The SW culture, on the other hand, I done killed that puppy by over feeding (a little goes a long way, you certainly do not want to cloudy the water). At that point, I pitched my SW culture, decided my 2gal of PW was far to big at this time, so I got micromesh stainless steel and filtered out my living daphnia to start 2 new cultures, this time 3 cups each, both PW and SW again (feeding far less in the SW culture this time).

After an additional 5 days, both cultures were doing extremely well, with evidence of lots of reproduction in both. I expanded both cultures at that time to 5 cup containers.

3 days later, I noted a new plankton species (2 of them) that Bill identified as cyclops. I likely had some super microscopic eggs in my culture, or potentially came from my PW as well. It wasn't a big deal, but I would use a dropper and slurp them up when I could, just in case.

1 week later (15 days from when I restarted the cultures in 3 cup containers) the PW culture had countless daphnia swimming around, so I seeded that culture into the pond.

3 weeks from that date, I seeded the SW culture in the pond. I continued to grow and expand this culture that entire 3 weeks to really put a large amount into the pond.

This all took place from the end of March to the beginning of May in southern Ohio for reference. About every week or so, I would try to do a 20% water change, using that micro mesh stainless steel so I wouldn't lose any daphnia.
With the SW culture that I was feeding yeast water, I would feed to make it just ever so slightly cloudy, then when it would get real clear, I'd add a little more yeasty mix in. Hopefully these notes can help someone!

As for water clarity, Secchi reading was 24" at the beginning of this, and pretty still hangs around there to this day (almost 2 years later). I will say the minnow and tadpole population is still extremely abundant (I have bluntnose minnows, spotfin shiners, mosquito fish, and fatheads [the fatheads could be dwindling, but that was to be expected for those slow pokes]).

At this point in time your current plan appears good to my thinking and experience. This assumes you will get the ordered fish in a good timely manner with no delays. From what I have seen for growth of SBS, those 5"-7"ers if stocked in early to mid- May should grow at least 2" some maybe 3" by Fall and range in sizes from 7"- 9+". Be aware that not every fish of a species will grow at the same rate. Some individuals of each spawn or litter are slower growers of runts. Hopefully you don't get many of those slow growers from your supplier - it is a gamble of the fish business. Try to pay attention the the size range of the SBS that you receive. Return back to this thread and report the growth of the SBS and progress of the pond fishery in early October.

If you want good habitat cover for the small fish, plan to have pretty long lengthy areas of dense brush like structure. It can be numerous 2"-3" dia small tree trunks with the trunk bases anchored to shore. Then when structure provides too much cover or it needs to be replaced just pull out the tree tops or replace when smallest branches rot up after 2-4 years.

Okay - pellet feeding is not necessary for growing the SBS and HSB. Without pellets they might not grow as fast, however the fish should be healthy and provide some good angling fun. Both you and us will learn more about this fish combination if you periodically return here and give us some fishery updates.

I reverse estimated the possible carrying capacity of this fish combo of SBS/HSB. The main variable to this is how much fertility will be in your pond's natural production.

Without pellet feeding, I think your stocking numbers are good and appropriate for a NO PELLET for 1/4 ac pond of natural sustaining foods. I calculated what the SBS-HSB estimated carrying capacity will be when the fish have been in the pond after 6-8years. We have to keep in mind that there should not be a lot of reproduction recruitment for these two species. SBS recruitment minimal and HSB none, thus if the HSB eat most of the offspring from the SBS,,, fish growth as carrying capacity will be mostly from the initial stocker fishes.
I estimate the SBS without pellets could be 9" long and each should 0.62lb X 50 SBS for total SBS weight of 31lbs X 4 for = 124lbs/ac. of panfish
Then with 12 HSB if they grow to 14" long will weigh 1.4 lb each for 16.9 lbs of predator X 4 = 67.6 lbs HSB predator/ac.
TOTAL fish pounds per ac = close to 192/b per ac. that to me seems a very reasonable fish poundage for a natural carrying capacity for growing fish. As the pond ages past the 6-8yrs with some stocked fish attrition there might be some growth available for the existing stocked SBS/HSB.

I see this as a very good fishery experiment for all of us as a learning experience. Please keep us advised as to how this fish combination progresses.