Pond Boss Forums Thread Like Summary - Recommendations for Saugeye stocking

Hey all, per Mr. Lusk, I've been given permission to start this thread on Saugeye(SAE) for sale and more importantly, what they should be used for and the variables that affect the outcome.
First off, let me explain that the research available has been from within state-agencies that raise this hybrid and the stockings conducted by me in the private sector have been modeled after state stocking methods and the results have been fairly uniform to expectations.
Saugeye originally were produced as an aggressive option to walleye (WAE), particular in areas WAE recruitment was historically low at best. In these cases, it didn't seem to matter what the stocking rates were - or the size of Walleye stocked.
The one thing these impoundments had in common was warmer water in mid summer, slightly less visibility and lower dissolved O2 profiles which also followed a total acreage size of less than 300 acres.
Along these lines, stocking of SAE began and many things changed that were somewhat unpredicted.

One item that became apparent fairly quickly was year-end zero recruitment. It took quite a few years of data to determine if this was widely variable, and as it has turned out, SAE fry stocking vs WAE stocking produces on average, about 11 times better return and nobody has an answer - specifically why that is.

A secondary change that was noted was panfish species started increasing in size - dramatically - and more and more research continued on this and the pattern followed suit in 99% of the locations studied.

This was about the point a lot of heads came together and determined SAE are not shad dependent such as what is normally present in healthy WAE populations achieving good growth rates. There are other pelagic forage species that WAE do well on in more northern impoundments, but those species don't reproduce well - if at all - in smaller impoundments. The SAE were obviously keying in on sunfish species more common to littoral zone locations.

At this point, research began on concentrating stockings where BG(bluegill), GSF(green sunfish), BCP(blk crappie), WCP(white crappie) and such species were uncontrolled and stunted in most conditions. This is about the time period I became involved with this program and have been able to observe for 18 years exactly how these impoundments were changing with my own eyes.

The most recent program began 5 years ago in a 2 acre pond where BG blew up in a manner we started extracting fyke nets with 1000's of BG out of every net on a single night set. This pond was stocked with FHM, GSH, BG and later that fall, SMB of 10-12" and CC of varying sizes.
In 2022, we stocked 50 SAE of 5" size to get started. By fall of 2023 these had achieved 15" and the decision was made to put 100 more in at a smaller 4-5" size to work on the next year class of BG.
Spring 2024, original SAE were 19-20" and had thinned down BG numbers and allowed some good growth of remaining fish (BG).
At the size limit of 18", some of the original stockers were being harvested so the addition of 100 intermediates would be cropping from the bottom-up (most effective control of a species). No additional stockings in 2024. In 2025, 3,000 fry will be stocked following previously conducted research that shows 2% - 3% survival year end 2025 should be expected.
In the summer of this past year, good numbers of larger BG were being caught alongside good numbers of very nicely sized SMB.

This example is 1 of 100's of impoundments that have continued to show very similar results using the same stocking principles.

I want to add that Nebraska and other states are transitioning to SAE in many historically WAE impoundments based in large part to these findings.

Another point of interest is the SAE will do well outside of the normal range of WAE - especially in warmer, more turbid waters.
As far as what that range is... that's uncharted territory. We have some data on decent recruitment in northern TX, and due to this, we are anticipating acceptable numbers being possible across the northern-most parts of TX thru the northern half of AR, the northern 1/3 of MS, northern tier of GA across the western parts of NC and on up from there. I'm sure there are parts in the western U.S. where they will do fine but state approval could be tougher, but I will sure make the calls if requests come out of those western locations.

Reasons to stock or NOT to stock :
SAE are not for everyone, like anything we do here, 1 change affects many other areas in most cases.
Where I find SAE fit best are where LMB may not be desirable or are not getting the job done controlling certain panfish species.

Factors to consider are goals for your fishery, are you wanting WAE and they don't grow as they should, are BG or Crappie out of hand, or do you just want a fish that looks and tastes like a WAE but your small pond is not appropriate for Walleye - most are not and WAE tend to grow much slower in a pond of less than 35-50 acres. In most cases studied, SAE by end of year 2 were 25-30% larger than WAE in the same impoundment.

If your pond is pretty well balanced I would not recommend upsetting the basket by stocking SAE.

SAE can be utilized similar to Hybrid striped bass(HSB) in low numbers as a bonus fish.

SAE are much more aggressive than WAE, typical of hybrid vigor in other species we see also.

SAE will frequent extremely shallow water at night after achieving a certain growth point. Early in life as fry, they primarily live in a pelagic manner where plankton densities are most abundant, and with their earlier hatch time, they are big enough that species such as Blk & WCP that also move to these areas shortly after hatch, become targets of the SAE.

Each case really requires an evaluation to understand what is expected and recommendations can vary slightly from one pond/lake to another.

There are cases where fingerlings are appropriate but in most cases, Fry are stocked at a rate specific to the condition of the ponds and have proven to return nearly identical numbers at 1 yr. Stockings of fry for existing fisheries are from 1,000/ac to 1,500/ac and will be shipped via Fedex overnight services, day 3 post hatch to be stocked on day 4.

We are taking orders for fry NOW and I will be fertilizing "X" number of eggs based on our stocking needs and the number that we receive requests for. Shipping should begin around 4/10/25 until we are done hatching requested numbers. The entire process can only be stretched so far due to timing requirements, which may possibly be 10-12 days of total hatching.

As most understand, we have to get cleared to ship into most states and this requires some paperwork. All fish will be shipped with parent stock health certs and a copy of your states approval documents which most want pre-shipment approval 14 days prior to, so this leaves us about 60-70 days to accept orders for fry.
Intermediates of 4-6" will be available in limited numbers and are not required in most cases. Again, the fry stockings are from 22 years of collection data on different stocking rates and those numbers have proven adequate to achieve a fishable population or as predators without adding tremendous transportation fees.
I welcome any questions on the forum about this process and expectations you may have.
If you wish to discuss via phone, my number is listed in my business link below.
You can also contact TJ Hudson or myself via email.

TJ- [email protected]
Kenny- [email protected]

Guys, I need to clear a few things up on stocking strategies..
For the first stocking, recommendations are 1500/ac. For annual stockings thereafter 1000-1200/ac will give a good representation of year class recruits. If stocking biannually, the rate would be 1200-1500/ac. By the end of yr 2, an assessment needs to be made on progress for the SAE AND the forage structure, rates can then be adjusted to best suit the conditions.
I've received quite a few emails regarding follow-up stockings in which case we can address that in each situation.

OK, as expected, there are some that are not comfortable with fry stockings - I get that - but we have been taught a lot about fish species we all deal with regularly and have pretty much been able to have a certain "expectation" as to what survival rates will be.
Unfortunately, The data available proves survival of SAE fry - when stocked correctly - saugeye fry after many years of stocking studies are producing better recruitment than fingerling stockings of Saugeye (SAE). These stockings of SAE fry are proving to a unique type of fish.

I received some results of state recruitment saygeye in-depth studies yesterday of the 24 season fall sampling and the average recruits (survivals) for SAE were over 300% greater for SAE vs WAE(walleye) stocked at the same number per acre.
The state of Kansas DNR all have formulas for calculating potential numbers based on setting trap nets and gill nets in the same place in each impoundment every year for several days as close to the historical sampling dates as possible.

Average figures were 0.5 to 0.7 percent of year end-year zero recruitment for WAE versus for
Saugeye averages were 2.2 to 8.4% survival when stocked as fry. The highest numbers of recruits for SAE were found in exactly the opposite conditions where WAE have the highest recruitment.
Example - consistent visibility of less than 36" produced better SAE recruitment with water temps appearing to have little affect.
Visibilities of 4'+ showed higher numbers of WAE recruits compared to lower visibility.

Conclusions are Saugeye fry survival to adult stages show higher survival in lower water clarity compared to walleye who better survive in more clear water of 4 ft or more visibilities.

Higher water temps had a much greater affect on WAE survival than SAE but we already are aware of saugeye thrive better in warmer water.

One of our hatchery managers told me yesterday, 2025 will be the last year for stocking of fingerling SAE because recruitment of SAE has proven to be better when fry were stocked compared to using the fingerling sizes. DNR WAE stockings will go primarily to using fingerlings because the opposite occurs.

I have received comments of being skeptical about stocking fry..... that's Okay, then using the SAE fry are not for you then.

I strongly believe in selling a customer what they need... sometimes the customer has a "want" more than a need when there is very little data publicly available. I can only provide state in-depth fishery findings and the numbers they share with me that I ask for.
Return business is our goal and screwing someone over never works well for anyone.

I'm staking my reputation on my state fishery brothers that have for years worked with saugeye and what I've learned from them over many years of utilizing these hybrid saugeye.

If anyone has questions, please post and ask away. The questions and answers will benefit all who read it.

Hey guys, wanted to drop a note here. I have fertilized the last batch of eggs for Saugeye production and I have about 10-12 days to finalize orders for fry.
I had originally posted responding to jpsdad that I do not recommend a new pond be stocked with these but I ran across a couple of exceptions in the last couple of weeks, 4 of which are state projects I had not been following very closely
In a new pond with species planned such as SMB, YP and still want BG, I think this has been a benefit to stock fry in lower initial numbers prior to stocking BG where BG are desired but LMB are not a part of the plan.
The early stocking of SAE fry at the same time FHM are stocked, followed by 3-5" BG in a pond of 3+ acres will get the SAE to a size they will begin working on BG production as they will be large enough to begin consuming the BG fairly quickly post-hatch with a recommendation of YP and SMB stocked in the fall with GSH added as brooder size the next summer.
We've had 4 community ponds stocked in this manner over the last 2 years, 3 were refurbed in 2022, stocked beginning spring 2023.
The fry stocking rate was considerably lower than that recommended for an existing fishery due to extremely low potential of predation.
Can discuss with anyone wanting to try this but results look very promising on all species growth rates as of fall 2024.
After fry orders are filled, we will be stocking the remaining fish for intermediate grow out to fill existing orders the best we can.
Thanks and holler if you wish to consider this.

I really like Snipe's SAE , and his service. I started off early, May of 2024 . I started with 6"-8" SAE , to involved to type , but we ended up with 30 in 1.7Acres with depths at full pool of 16'-20' , 7 weeks ago we were 7.5' down from drought and our 1st SAE were caught at 17"-20" on same lure and same area of pond as a 20" WAE (seemed schooling together ) . The WAE was stocked at same size but in 2021 , roughly 2"-3" longer but much stockier. Pictures of these fish were posted by myself after Identified by Snipe late March 2025 . Another SAE was caught in the next week , measured 20" , once again it didn't have the weight but was in same length class as the much older WAE. I don't believe you will have temperature issues , or surface size issues with your NY pond , and my ponds have 18" SMB (No LMB) , 20"+ WAE , 16"-17" Black Nose Crappie , 23"-25" CC. If my Western Ok. pond can grow SAE and WAE through summers with weeks of continuous days of triple digit weather , I'd bet your pond will also and I'm confident in Snipe and his knowledge, If he didn't believe in their survival , he wouldn't sell them to your region. My plan , with Snipe's support , is to ladder stock his SAE in both of my ponds, in an experiment to see if SAE will control small sun fishes , so that my ponds will produce very respectable BG and BNCP in the future without stocking Green Carp. SAE have the reputation in large reservoirs , of accomplishing this, now we'll see in smaller ponds. Have to remember, every BOW is different. Thank You , Kenny , looking forward to growing some nice SAE and Sun Fishes , together.

Catscratch-PM coming your way.

Rod- The issue has not been on the forum here, it's been on phone calls, texts, FB messenger, etc..
Where I run into issues is explaining what this hybrid is best at. People assume I am looking at this from an outside view-just like everyone else. People don't know how deeply I've been involved in this program at the hands-on level, which has allowed me to view this from the inside-out. Nobody else has ever had that view. The workings of the Saugeye are well understood within the agencies that build this fish, now I'm breaking new ground bringing it into a market where it has never before been available with knowledge of what this hybrid is good for.

One item of interest is the unexplainable high survival of fry for this species that is somewhat opposite of what we've been taught about most species. This high survival is well documented and very consistent in agency studies.

I have found one other producer that attempted SAE over 20 years ago and after a good 45 min conversation it became clear they did not understand the best use of the fish and marketed these as additional fishing opportunity along side current Walleye populations where walleye thrived. Wrong fit, I won't sell fish to those folks. 20+ years later, I believe I have a much more in-depth understanding of where these fit. Keep the questions coming if you have them.

I am curious if LMB and SE prefer different habitat. Obviously it's just 1.6 acres, but wonder if the LMB will tend to the shore and brush while the SE stay in deeper water.

They are very different in where they spend their first year. If Saugeye are stocked correctly, best recruitment is seen when they are stocked literally in the middle most portion of the impoundment.
Saugeye spend most of the first year of their life feeding at night and only frequent cover under darkness until they are in the 11-14" range where they begin slipping in and out of cover and move back out fairly quickly.
Saugeye is not a species you want to get too carried away with stocking numbers and 10 per ac in a 5-6" size is all I could recommend. We see extremely high survival rates from these even with LMB present because they don't hide in shoreline cover where most LMB are hunting.
As they age, the do begin to frequent these areas more often from the 14-18" size and with abundant forage, we have some that have achieved 24" by the middle of year 3 but normally 19-22 would be most common at yr 3.

Saugeye do quite well near here in Buckeye Lake, a large, shallow (average depth might be 6') 200 year old BOW originally built to supply water for the Ohio-Erie Canal system. The lake gets a ton of pleasure boaters and water skiers in the Summer, when the churned-up water looks like a dirty Latte.

Just to add, Indiana has given the green light for SAE stocking. I will have the state required paperwork to Snipe within 30 days.

Rod, what that should read is "year-end, year zero recruitment" as-in first fall prior to being 1 year old. The bottom line is saugeye recruit much better than year zero walleye(WAE), again, we don't know why.
As for zero recruitment of WAE, yes, in fall net samples following spring fry stockings, fry have not proven to enhance the population much if any. It was "assumed" saugeye(SAE) fry stockings would show similar results but not the pattern that emerged.
As for your comment on getting very low recruitment from intermediate fish size stocking of WAE, yes, obviously they are not going to prosper there and as to why, some factors can be determined as a cause, other factors we may never know.

Snipe,

I think I was the only one asking questions in this thread about the recruitment of fry.

I was NOT doubting your data, or the efficacy of stocking fry.

I was just asking questions to determine which conditions make stocking fry a good strategy. Particularly, since I have seen very few threads on Pond Boss about stocking fry compared to older fish.

I greatly appreciate you coming back to the thread and providing more information, especially on the water conditions where stocking fry has had very good results.

Keep up the good work. I can't wait to read the Pond Boss threads in a few years after you get saugeye into a lot of ponds and small lakes of the members!

I would not recommend any SAE in a new pond. Zero.
The exception to that would be after initial predator stocking, there becomes an issue with BG, GSF (sunfish in general) or Crappie.
SAE will out-grow everything else so stocking these would be to have a WAE-like fish in existing fisheries.
If you want them as a main predator, maybe stock for a target of 25 per acre on initial, 8-12 per acre every other year or 5-7 annually.
Cost of fry includes a consultation on every stocking request and a number of fry stocked will be recommended for the variables that are known.
Fry will be in the .33/each range PLUS overnight shipping.
I have edited this after realizing I said including shipping. It does not include shipping.
If your conditions are right for 1,000 per acre, or conditions are such that it requires 1,500 per acre, we are trying to price the initial stocking for a PER ACRE price as we can't control existing conditions of each pond, we are still looking for the same recruitment rate for each acre.

(Edit: to stock fry for grow out, with nothing else present, you could never stock enough prey to get ahead of it again.)-This comment is for grow out of high intensity numbers where nothing else would survive in any numbers.
The question has come up on starting the fry alone and adding a fishery around the fry stocking. This may be very possible if adult BG/BCP are stocked above 4" to attain a spawn shortly after stocking for the BG. I don't think it is possible for the crappie to spawn at what would be the required timing to have the Saugeye fry to the 2" size, which will be around the first of June.

Catscratch, Saugeye act more like a bass than a walleye.. I've caught them throwing spinnerbaits up in the trash, they will smash a chatterbait, we catch them trolling cranks on the flats just like we would walleye. You'll cross them more frequently in shallow water where you'd expect to catch LMB and I have caught them throughout the day, but like most species, low-light periods are when they have the advantage.

As for stocking rates, for 19 acres, 19,000 fry would be the general rule in an existing fishery to get the same year 1 recruitment you would have stocking 6" fish. We're looking for 2-4% on initial stocking.

If we try to stock 6" fish in this situation, 2 things occur,
1, we miss predation of the high number of YOY fish we may be trying to control at an early stage.
2, by stocking intermediates at the same recommended density, we are at 400 bucks an acre plus delivery, where shipping fry for -say a 19 acre lake- equates to 375-475/acre plus 150 for overnight shipping, depending on the density we decide is best for each impoundment. For your water, Cat, we will probably be less per acre based on species and conditions present.. your survival is going to be higher scale based on the info you sent me.
I'm looking at total cost to the customer to get "X" result.

I'm bumping this to reflect changes made for clarification.
Thanks guys for reaching out.

See the threads on habituation.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=536404#Post536404

My guess is the survival of SAE will be about like stocking LMB fry of the same size. Adding cover will increase the chances but most predation will be in the first 2 days so habituate any fry /yoy going into a pond with adult fish.

"We found that fingerling largemouth bass survival significantly increased (P , 0.004) from 26% to 46% when fish were habituated in a predator-free enclosure for at least 15 min. Surviving fish spent most (95%) of their time in the structurally complex habitat. "