I have a 2.5 acre pond in NE Kansas. My ultimate goal is to produce 1-3 pound yellow perch. Last year we had our first fish kill in 20 years. The only that I can tell that survived is millions of small bluegill and some of the the smaller lmb. Because of this fish kill we had an explosion of coontail covering 95% of the surface. I’ve since added a 4 diffuser Airation system from the pond guy. Tried diquat and cutrine plus mixed with low results. Added 150 grass carp that seem to be finally making some dents. I’m also using airmax eco boost to bind phosphates currently.last fall I added golden shiner fry from Anderson minnows and this spring I added brooders. I’m now seeing shiners in abundance and all size classes of bluegill as I feed aquamax mvp regularly so I get to see a lot of them. Bass are also in different size classes, but probably none over 3 pounds. Supposed to get 300 feed trained yellow perch this fall in the 7-9 inch range. My question is, how many walleye per acre can I add and when is the best time? I really want to feast on YP, but catching a few walleye once in a while would be a bonus. Hopefully I have given enough background on the pond. Deepest is around 14-16 foot after spring rains. Average is around 8-10 foot. Thanks!
Common carp from Europe have a different main diet - omnivores variety of living and dead stuff. Grass carp (GC) are herbivores and they might not have a "mud vein" aka red meat between fillet and skin. I have never cleaned a GC. Numerous fish such as tilapia and Lake Erie walleye have red meat between the fillet and skin. Red meat allows lactic acid build up for strength endurance. GC have white relatively firm meat - large flakes. However they do have extra bones compared to BG,LMB and CC. Some pond owners I know that have eaten the large ones compared the taste to walleye. Maybe? It is a matter of opinion. If you eat a GC report back with your opinions.
I spent a year in West Germany back in the mid 70s as a serviceman. Many a Gasthaus had a fish tank with 1 to 3 pound carp on display. Diners would pick out the fish they wanted, it was prepared in 30 to 45 minutes while we drank a liter or 2 of the local bier, and our choice was presented for our dining pleasure. Deep fried in herb flavored oil quickly became our favorite. If my memory serves me well, the carp was equal to the best fish and chips we can get here in the US. The fish were raised in relatively shallow, gravel lined ponds and fed grains and vegetables. There was no comparison to the muddy flavored common carp of American waters. I've always been interested in trying to raise those carp in similar ponds.
. I also do plan to try eating some. I’ve heard people say they are delicious.
I went to a restaurant in Budapest, Hungary with a local friend that was away from the tourist area. They had a big tank in the window where you could pick your carp for dinner! (I had only previously seen that in the U.S. for lobsters.)
I have never eaten carp despite catching a lot, but apparently many people do consider them tasty! Please post a good preparation/recipe on the forum if you ever make a delicious dinner out of some or your carp.
4Corners - clean and eat one of those large GC and report back to us. Here are some you tube videos of catching grass carp that you might try to use when ready to remove some of the overabundant GC. White Bread as Bait
First, it’s going to be very difficult to get a good YP fishery with LMB present. Bass love YP. Not saying it’s impossible but will be a struggle.
Walleye may not do well girth-wise in a pond that size. They’re just not well adapted to it. So they’ll struggle to put on weight, but should attain good length.
Bluegill and shiners will compete with your more desirable YP.
If big-ish YP are what you want, only way I can think of is removing everything else as much as possible. Make sure there’s good vegetative cover so they can spawn.
It will be a challenge. These are tough goals to accomplish. I think it’s possible though, with a LOT of work.
Yes, I have friends that bow fish. With the amount of coontail I’m guessing it’ll be at least a year before I get good results. I commonly see their dorsal fins coming up out of the water. They are triploid so it’ll just be a matter of taking the time to remove them as needed. Hopefully with the new aeration system, the carp, and eco boost I’ll get ahead of it some day. Will also be adding 170 tons of limestone rip rap to the dam in the next couple weeks for many beneficial reasons. Sunil, the actual advice was 75 per acre and then remove as needed. I have an extreme circumstance.
I am just curious. Sunil, who PM'd you to ease back on John?
I didn't advise on this but given the circumstances I am reluctant to judge the stocking rate. I just love the circumstances here because I empathize with you John. We have a 17 acre community lake nearby that is just excessively taken over with coontail. Nearly every other BOW is plagued with naiad.
A lot of money can be spent on herbicides with little long term success. This may actually be the best (for the pond ecosystem) solution and the most cost effective one where the population is trimmed to customize the coverage of macrophytes.
John, I would love to see you make the biological control of coontail a thread in and of itself. I suspect your GC are growing maximally and this is just a unique opportunity to understand maximum GC growth and how standing weights are working with your particular situation. I also see this an opportunity (personally) to try to build an energetics model around GC and coontail. Your progress on control would be very interesting to follow. Would you consider doing this?
Grass carp can be dangerous in shallow water if spooked. I have seen adult males knocked out of a boat incurring broken ribs from spooked (by a seine net) airborne carp at 60 lbs. I would not have suggested putting in that many carp. On small ponds it might be easier to drain and scrape out the grasses than catch out lots of big carp. Option would be to drain the pond once the carp have eaten the grass out or rotenone/hydrated lime.
It’ll probably be quite a while before I will get my hands on any of the carp. When I do I can certainly take weight and length measurements. I also do plan to try eating some. I’ve heard people say they are delicious. I won’t be adding any predators such as walleye anytime soon. Definitely plenty of time to do more research. I’ve read it’s possible to get walleye to spawn by using a water agitator to create a current along the bank if it’s sandy with gravel. Pretty interesting concept. My biggest concern right now is getting my yellow perch going again. They were doing well before the big fish kill. I assume they all died as they are one of the first to suffer from low DO. There were way more bass in there before so I know they can survive and spawn. Thanks for the comment about Sauger. I’ll look into that.
I think you can appreciate this story and so I will share with you.
I grew up in a big family. There were 7 of us kids. My dad was an avid bass fisherman. He also like to do a tournament from time to time. All my relatives also liked to do fishing and hunting like we did. My dad took fishing more seriously than anyone I have ever known (though I am sure some here might take fishing more seriously or have known others that did). Anyways, for the most part, my siblings and I as well, were not part of his bass fishing seriousness until we reached an age of 12 or so. I remember going on my first bass fishing trip with him at around that age. My dad had hooked a 4 lb LMB and was bringing her in. He looked oddly at me and with a tinge of disappointment said "What are you messing around for, ready the net". I had never netted a fish before. Not once. But I immediately started trying to get with the program. But of course, I really didn't understand what my father was asking of me. I was trying to scoop the fish and it was not cooperating and my dad paused and while the fish was doing its own thing he explained what he wanted me to do. He asked me to position the net in the water at an angle and just hold it there. So I did. Meanwhile he worked the fish around and the fish wound up swimming into the net and I lifted it. From that point on, I knew what my dad wanted
A couple of weeks later, we made a trip to Arkansas to fish for RBT as a family vacation. The location was near Flippin, AR. Where we stayed the host rented jon boats and had a bait shop on his dock. He had caught two Brown trout in excess of 20 lbs and one of which weighed over 27 lbs was mounted and displayed in the bait shop. Bless his soul, he favored me with conversation and answers to an unending list of questions. I asked how he got a fish that big into his boat. He said "I netted him with that net right there". It was a small net like you see a lot of people use when trout fish fishing. I own a couple like it. "But how?" I asked, "The fish is too big for that net!". He shared with me how. When he got the fish close to the boat and the line just enough out that he could maneuver it around he put his net in the water. Once he got the trout turned around and moving in the direction of net he released pressure on the fish and it just swam right into the net. He said, there is a limit to how big a fish can be netted with net that small but that one was small enough.
Anyways, it all came full circle in that moment for me. A motionless net is less apt to spook a fish and when a fish is moving in the direction of a net, at just the right moment, one can release the pressure and the fish will dive down and swim right in. I never forgot either experience and in memory they are paired. I have used the advice over and over through the years landing fish alone or with another holding the net. I expect that neither my dad nor that old host in Flippin could imagine at the time how long lasting those memories would become. Their legacy even now being remembered here.
