Pond Boss Forums Thread Like Summary - Green sunfish making me rethink my plan, opinions

Last fall we completed a 2.75 acre pond in north Alabama. It is 17.5 feet at the deepest point, but majority is 3’ to 5’ deep. My plan had been to stock minnows this spring. 3000 mosquito fish and 3000 fatheads have been stocked. I had planned to stock hand painted bluegill and redear sunfish this fall and bass next fall. However during two recent major rain events I have spotted 1” to 3” green sunfish swimming up the spillway and into the pond. I am now concerned about them getting such a head start on breeding over the hand painted bluegill. I now wonder if I should stock coppernose and redear sunfish now and bass this fall. I really wanted the hand painted bluegill, but there were 100’s of green sunfish in the ditch that the spillway dumps into. I am concerned that there will be so many of them by next season, that they would decimate the bluegill fry? Am I over reacting? Any advice is appreciated.


Levon

I'll share my experience w/ the Greens and a new pond here in NW Oklahoma..... 8 acre new pond did the initial fall stocking of 1000s native bluegill (small 1"), fatheads, and shiners. I stopped in fish shop and got some more bluegill (was told coppernose). I got them home and started to acclimate them and identified them, no doubt as green sunfish. I think I had 15# of them and they were 2-3" long. It was either trash $150 bucks worth or let them loose. I said screw it and stocked them. Last stocking in the initial fall was a good amount of legit coppernose; then finally the Bass were introduced soon after...

First spring, the greens grew fast. Sampling traps, cast netting, and rod and reel it was easy the greens had a jump on everything else. I read alot of posts on here and there was some nervousness about "what had I done" and should I nuke the project came to mind. I let everything take its course and let it alone.

Three seasons have past and the native BG and coppernose are multitudes more abundant that the greens, based on the same sampling methods. The LMB reproduced fine. A few nights ago, we had a couple CNBG caught that were pushing the 1# mark. The greens are still around but no harm has been done that I see. One more event that happened was gizzard shad made there way in the pond. I think the Greens are good to help control those buggers too.

Have not been back to that supplier either. I should have looked at those fish before I left the store

I have never been able to tell the difference in taste between BG, RES, or BGxRES. I believe that Lepomids raised in the same water, eating mostly the same things, taste pretty much the same.

But then again, I think sardines in mustard, crunchy peanut butter, and saltine crackers make a good lunch.

The best defenses against over-population of Green Sunfish are predator fish large enough to eat them. Generally, LMB are suited for that.

Maybe if you could get your painted Bluegill and Readear Sunfish in now, and maybe along with a few more pounds of fathead minnows, then you could get an initial stocking of some LMB this fall.

Green Sunfish, with their larger mouths, will probably eat more Mosquito Fish and Fatheads than the other bluegill you want to stock, so that's a concern.

I was one of the people with to many green sunfish. I could catch one every 30 sec. with a small jig. Now years later after all the predaters grew I don't catch very many, maybe 1 out of a 100 fish but that could be a conservitive guess.There are many days none are caught. I beleave greensun fish spon once a year and your other bait fish spon many times and will end up being your main bait fish. Or the green suinfish are so agresive they get out of the cover and are eaten. Just my opinion from what I have seen on my lake. The green sun fish could have moved to an area that I don't fish. (after 12 years largest bluegill 1.25 lbs, largest large mouth bass 7.45 lbs.).
You will need to stock fish larger than the mouth gap of the green sunfish and they have a very big mouth for their size.

If I had known then what I know now I would have nuked my pond the day after the Great BG Escape.

The fyke net catches GSF like crazy but it will never get them all.
I've caught well over 100 of them in four deployments of the net over the past couple weeks.
Some of them are knocking on 10".

IF you can figure out a way to keep them out of the pond in the future, I'd nuke the pond to kill the GSF and start over. They will eat a tremendous amount of fry that hatch in the pond. Been there, done that and nuked the pond, starting over because of 0 recruitment of the stocked fish.

And, just what is wrong with the dreaded green sunfish?

Lusk once said “ How is a fish that only spawns annually going to compete with bluegills that have rolling(multiple annual) spawns?

How can they cause a problem?

Only one way and I have it in a small 1/4 acre pond that I’ve had for over 40 years. It is now 100% greens but it’s ok with me.
Due to cormorants I have no bass, cats or HSB to balance the bluegills I once had. I don’t live there so I don’t worry about them overspawning and creating an O2 crash. Can’t say that about bluegills.

In this situation I’m a green fan. I go back and toss out feed and occasionally fish for them.

I stocked bluegill and redear sunfish in my pond and green sunfish somehow made it in as well. They are like dandelions. I think they blow in with the wind or something.

One really cool thing I am seeing is how these three sunfish types are all breeding hybrids with one another. Last weekend I caught and kept a few dozen for the frying pan and it was like I had at least 6 completely different types of colorful sunfish (not even counting the different look of the sexes). The variety was absolutely amazing.

I love it.

Initial growth of HBG is faster/larger than BG for several reasons. One is aggressiveness coupled with a larger gape (that could be viewed as hybrid vigor). Another is HBG are mostly male (a better comparison would be a male only BG pond) - that rate is closer to equal. Another reason is HBG use less energy to produce gametes/reproduction so more energy can go to growth. There are several studies on these questions.

Hybrid Bluegill link is now fixed!

(FishinRod had attached a link to a Post Driver from Northern Tools that was from a previous dock repair thread. I hope that explains the well-deserved sniping from the peanut gallery. )

Yes and ask about the crossing process and genetics. Their best use IMO is in a put and take fishery with CC and HSB with feeding.

Now the next step is to invite over a bunch of guests and have a blind taste-testing fish fry to determine which hybrid is best!

Thanks for all the replies. I wouldn't have an issue with the GSF if the other species were already present. My concern was with the GSF getting such a head start on everything else. The HPBG will not be available until fall. Unlike many fish, you can't order a particular size. What's available when it's your turn is what you get. I have ordered CNBG and RES as well as a few more fathead minnows from a local fish farm. I will get a reduced amount oft he HPBG in the fall. The pattern may be diluted in initial breedings, but over time as they cross back there should still be colorful individuals from time to time. I will have to base the bass stocking time and size on what the HPBG size is once they arrive. Hopefully the CNBG and RES can keep the GSF in check until then.

In the case of my pond, there are no LMB to control the GSF or BG/HBG.
They directly compete with the SMB bass for groceries. The BG just make too many babies for SMB to keep up.

I’ve said this for over 20 years. A green sunfish is a lot more fun to catch than a bluegill. I have both and and can tell the difference immediately.

Sorry for expanding your thread so much. (I am one of the worst offenders. However, I really learn a lot when the forum does a deep dive on good questions, and I assume others also learn a great deal on those occasions.)

Good luck on creating your good fishery. Being in AL, I believe that as long as you keep your water quality good, then you are going to get excellent growth on your fish and will soon have enjoyable fishing for your family!

I wonder if you could "BG train" your HSB to supplement their pellet training?

Set some traps to collect BG. Tail/fin clip them and throw them in the pond at the feeder location just prior to the timer going off. Maybe you can train the HSB to add more BG into their diet (beyond the clipped ones).

If your HSB are in the pond partially for BG control, at least make the spoiled brats do a little bit of their chores!

You can add me to the GSF fan club. When hooked, they make other sunfish look like pansies.

Lusk once weighed in about the green sunfish. He said “How is a fish that only spawns, at best, annually, going to keep up with the booming spawns of bluegills?

I now have an answer for that. I have a small pond a mile from the house; about 1/4 acre. I stocked it with bass, cats, hybrid stripers and bluegills. Inadvertently, I got some green sunfish or hybrids. All this about 40 years ago. With, droughts, floods, Texas summers and cormorants, I now have a pure green sunfish pond. That’s ok. When I go there, I toss in some feed and enjoy them. Had they been bluegills with rolling spawns, I would have quite a few oxygen crashes with no survivors.

Levon – I’ve dealt with GSF problems for over 40 years. With proper predator management GSF can be controlled in ponds. Testimonies here indicate that when the LMB population is “strong” and numerous or “normally balanced” the GSF population numbers are significantly reduced. I agree. My experience shows SMB will also do a pretty good job of controlling GSF. LMB hunt in the main habitat areas preferred by GSF. GSF tend to be secretive and prefer shallow dense cover and or rocky areas so they can be secluded. LMB can hunt GSF out in dense shallow cover and reduce their numbers while GSF are on the spawning nests. Plus, as noted, when other BG are present BG recruitment over time typically outnumber those of the GSF.
I strongly dislike GSF due to their aggressive behavior eating fish fry, their large mouth gape and slow growth. They have a tendency to overpopulate when LMB numbers are reduced or unbalanced. Small GSF can eat large prey items compared to other sunfishes. For a PBoss conference presentation, I measured the mouth size (gape) of many GSF. Up until GSF are around 6” long their mouth size (vertical and horizontal) are the SAME dimensions as the mouth of an equivalent length LMB. GSF are big aggressive predators for their small size.


Hand Painted Bluegill

Edited by Bob Lusk: Reason for edit. Deleted Bill Cody's truthful comments about these fish due to a threatening letter from non-named source latest attorney claiming libel or slander. I don't have time nor desire to deal with it. Cody's statements were true, but now they're gone. Ain't nobody got time for dat.


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