Pond Boss Forums Thread Like Summary - Found Tons of Baby Bass in my Trout Pond

Hi all,

Yesterday, I was walking around my 1 acre, 16 feet deep pond and noticed hundreds of small fish swimming around. I knew they weren't minnows, so I went out with a net to catch some. They were too fast, so I switched to a small hook and tiny peice or worm which seemed to work. Anyway, I caught one and am almost 100% sure they are Largemouth Bass, which makes sense since I did see three of four medium sized fish swimming around last year that I knew weren't my Brown Trout. Unfortunately, I didn't try to fish them out, and I think they bread.

I have attached some pictures, so people can see if they look like bass to you, although I will say under the water they have the distinct black stripe. It doesn't really show in the photos I took in the air.

http://imgur.com/a/0zFDxrm

What do you think about having this many bass in a trout pond? There are about 60-80 Brown Trout, and the pond is aerated with a fountain. My worry is there is not enough food to support them, since there are only minnows, frogs, and insects. Maybe a few crayfish as well. Also, how long will it take these babies to get big?

Thanks for reading and your help.

Thanks for the update. A northern one year old bass 6" long is okay growth. A few could be 4" and a few 7". It is common for a few or several older bass of travel in small groups where they can hunt in a pack to an advantage.

Are you still going to try to remove as many as possible or change your goals for this pond? A new crop of bass will be added soon to compound your problem.

The larger bass have become hook shy and likely numerous of those 6" bass are learning to be hooks smart. Those largest bass were caught once and this taught them to be cautious when humans are around and shy biters especially when they have seen that lure or bait previously. Have you tried fishing with minnows? Use small hooks and let the bass swallow the minnow to make sure you catch it. If you do try minnows, release 1-3 dozen first to get the bass less cautious and more aggressive. Use a low profile with angling. I would even try lying down and fishing so the bass can not see you. Wise bass get conditioned to be cautious when they see a tall figure or an unnatural behaving bait / lure.

You will have another crop of bass soon. I would ask the guy that put those fish in your pond if he would like to pay for a chemical renovation of your pond to let him know you did not appreciate his poor excuse of a favor?

Based on your situation, locality, pond size, natural pond type of habitat, the reproductive rate of LMB, and within average angler effort, I doubt that you will ever be able to take out too many bass. Start removing bass at anytime you are there with a few extra moments. You don't have to do it all at once. It is said to be actually better to minimize hook shy fish to fish as short periodic sessions rather than long periods.

Adam, I get your concern about possibly overfishing your bass. In my experience, it took me 3 years to knock my bass population down in a 1/4 acre pond. I live on the pond and fished it a few times a week with ultralight tackle specifically to reduce the LMB population.

In the few remaining weeks you have before freeze up, I think you could try to hammer the bass with a variety of baits and lures. I think it unlikely that you would destroy your opportunity for catchable bass next summer this way. They learn from watching others get caught and pulled from the water. This makes them hesitant to bite for a few days. Soon enough you'll have ice to contend with.

If you end up with 20, 50, 75 LMB overwintering, you'll likely have better quality fishing next year than if you overwinter 200, 500, or 750.

I am certainly not an expert, but if what you say is true, that is, your forage is already depleted, then each bass you remove this fall will potentially help any remaining fish be able to grow to a more interesting size.

In any event, keep us posted. This sounds like a fascinating way to control an unwanted or unplanned population of predators.

The bass in northern climate will develop a stable population (balance) and if left to themselves with none you or others remove there will in one acre, as the pond ages, be approximately 70-85 bass in the 10"-12" size class. The average total number will tend to be dependent on how productive/fertile the pond (ecosystem) is.

Each year they will spawn and then about only those offspring that survive will basically be those that replace the bass that die naturally or be removed by you or predators. If you remove some of the 70-85 bass each year the average size of the remaining bass will tend to become larger with a few maybe 15"-16". The larger bass will eat the smaller bass, fish, frogs, and items too big for the 8"-12" bass.

The more the amount of habitat cover there is the smaller the average size of the bass will become because more cover allows more smaller bass to hide and survive. Generally the fewer bass that are in the pond the larger the remaining bass will be due to each bass gets more food. More food for each one = more growth. Their top end size is basically limited by how much food it gets each year.

As a guess I think for the bass to stabilize at adult size the current 2019 LMB crop will have to grow to the 10-11" size so for in an Ontario trout pond it could take 3-4 years. I doubt the 2019 LMB group will be big enough to spawn in 2020 when in June the should be around 5"-6". However if you don't remove the current 3 adults you would get another year crop of baby bass (2020) next May early June. These 2020 bass fry - fingerlings will feed the 2019 bass to get them growing to the 7"-8" size. Then they could spawn in 2021 when some of the 2019 individuals are 9" maybe 8". Expect the 2019 bass to grow to 10" to maybe 12" in 2022. Let's see how far I miss the progress of your fishery.

When the bass get to 10"-12" you can still add trout do diversify your fishery. The supplimentally stocked trout should be a minimum of 7"-8" for good survival to avoid bass predation by 12" bass.

""2. How many bass should I pull each year if I want them to be bigger?"" Assuming that you have 70 bass in one acre, I think to get the remaining bass to grow beyond the 12" you should remove at least 35 and better 45 bass per year or add yellow perch with 25-35 bass ( any size) harvest each year to provide growth & food for the bass. Plus you could harvest some yellow perch for table use.

In my experience with YP in a LMB pond one should remove every bass caught to produce the better quality yellow perch fishery. LMB are intense predators of YP.

I think you are "stuck" with the bass until you renovate the entire pond. It will be extremely difficult to get them all out. All you need is one male & one female to annually repopulate the pond. Best time to try and catch all of them by angling is spring before they spawn. For best results use minnows as chumming and then as bait. Worms can work as additional bait when the bass become minnow hook shy. By all means be sure to return and let us know if you ever eliminate all bass and how you did it.

Adding YP when LMB are 12" for high percentage of YP survival would require adding YP that are at least 6" and better 7" long. YP are slender bodied so LMB can eat them at about 1/2 the length of the bass. The pond with trout and only natural foods requires a lower biomass so all fish have enough food to grow not just survive. Before you add the YP I would make a good effort to remove as many LMB as possible to 1. provide more available food for new YP & trout and 2. reduce the overall predation pressure in the pond.

When you are ready to add the YP not that many trout may still be alive. Or if you add a few trout per year the pond will not accept nearly as many YP. Me not seeing your pond and not being able to evaluate the natural carrying capacity, I guess a natural trout pond might have around 100 lbs of fish biomass per acre. Then the number of YP to add will be based on how many trout and bass remain before the YP are stocked. To be on the safe side, I would not add any more adult YP (6"-9") than the number of LMB or trout that have been removed in the past 120 days. More YP could be added if the trout are regularly fed pellets.

Thanks for you pond fish update. Interesting situation you have.
If your goal is natural trout production for this pond then yes be concerned, VERY concerned. Those abundant small bass as they grow to the 6"+ sizes will eliminate your minnows - ELIMINATE them. so to keep your trout fed you will have to resort to feeding them pellets. As you know now bass will not enter a trap even one that is baited. I doubt you will ever be able to catch out all those bass before they spawn again. Then it is a repeat of this year. It will be difficult to catch the last few bass out of the pond because the final few will eventually learn to be hook smart - hook shy and not bite anything with a line and hook attached. I have experienced this in several ponds. You have to be a very finesse angler to get the last 2-4 bass out.


You could sustain the trout fishery by regularly feeding them pellets. However if you do not daily go to the pond then pellet feeding trout is more of a hurdle problem.

IMO you will need to decide to renovate the pond OR stock additional fish to create a more balanced predator prey fishery. And if you do nothing else the bass will eventually achieve a weight & number balance to where there are around 30-50 bass per acre and their top end size would be around 10" to 12". The existing adults eat almost all the bass offspring before the next spawn. If you could try and keep the adult bass number down to around 20-25 per ac then they would by themselves grow slightly larger to around 12"-14" max. Their top end size will be based on the amount of food each one gets each year.

LMB are extremely difficult to catch in traps. They seen to be instinctively trap smart. The larger bass and trout will eat a lot of the small 2"-4" bass then in spring use intensive angling effort to catch all that are willing to bite live bait. I doubt you will ever be able to remove all of them. There are likely to be a few smart ones that become very hook shy. Then to maybe remove them try baiting them with minnows (live ones then maybe dead ones as bass learn to eat tossed food items) or worms and then when bass are eating aggressively bury a small hook on light line (2-4lb) in the bait. Let them swallow the bait to minimize loss and missed bites.

You need to remove as many as possible before the next spawn or all your hard effort becomes just practice. Since you are in Canada it may take 2 yrs for the current year class to be big enough to spawn. Thus if you can get out the 3 adults you will have 2 yrs to remove all the 2019 year class LMB.

You could try to train them to eat pieces of cut fish as NEDOC did to food train his muskie. Then use small hooks INSIDE strips of cut fish so bass cannot see the hook. Please keep us updated about your progress of removing all the LMB. Also keep track of how many you managed to remove. I am very interested about your progress.
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