Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Building a dam New Pond Construction Questions!

Hello,
First of all I am glad I found this site, I have been looking for info on pond construction for months.
What literature (book) is most useful for new pond construction?
I am going to build approx. a 1 acre pond (rough estimate until I get all the trees removed approx 190' x 210')on my property and have many questions about what to do and how. The soil composition in the area if clay under 12-14 in of topsoil.
What type of spillway/overflow should I use and how big?
I was kind of leaning to a drop inlet system but am concerned about amount of potential water flow and the pie being able to handle it. possible a bottom draw with additional gate valve for possible draining if needed. Wah size basin (riser) should I use? I was thinking of a 36in inlet with 30in discharge.
What depth is sufficient for RT, HSB, YP, BG, LMB? I live in Northern PA.
DEP has been useless they didnt want to be bothered.
Area for pond hs three springs to feed it and they are always pushing water.

Welcome, Brian Shpock!

You've found a good place to be.

Order the book by Bob Lusk entitled "Perfect Pond...Want One?". You can find it in the "books" link, and it's incredibly full of useful information. Extremely detailed answers to all of your questions.

Bruce

Welcome to the PB Forum. Here is a good thread and a source from the archives. Get the book Bruce suggested.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000207;p=1#000000

http://www.in.nrcs.usda.gov/pdf%20files/PONDS.PDF

I'll third the suggestion on that book...

Ok, Thanks for the advise. I did look at the pond construction guide from the Dept of Agriculture and it gives lots of info.
I order the book Perfect Pond Want One and also the subscription to Pond Boss Mag. Does anyone know of a good pond contractor in my area, Drums, PA? Is the USDA office helpful?

NRCS - Natural Resources Conservation Services (Div of USDA) was very helpful here in Iowa. Not sure how good they are in PA, but some folks swear by them (me, for one) and others can't stand them.

Give them a call...I was able to get cost share from them on two ponds, trees and prairie grass. Others...not so much help.

Welcome Brian. The USDA/NRCS usually keeps a list of dozer drivers. However, those guys ask to be put on the list. The NRCS doesn't qualify them. CHECK REFERENCES!

And go look at ponds they have built if at all possible. Asking questions from the clients while they show you the pond would be a great source of info.

I contacted the USDA/NRCS office in my area and they told me they do not have the time or the resources to help me out. Have been unable to find any contractors with experience in this area so far. Will try out of the area for resources. Awaiting my Pond Boss Magazine for possible help in finding someone in the area.

Brian,
The collar county NRCS offices are often up to speed with the region. I would also reach out to each of them and share your goals. You may find "the right guy to talk to" that way.

Brian, right now, I can't search a number for you, but Penn State might have some leads for you. State College publishes a lot of good material for PA pond owners (or soon to be owners). A lot of it's is avail

I'll send you a PM with the phone number of my fish guy who's from Harrisburg. You could ask him if he knows of some local pond builders in that part of the state.

Brian,
I'm in southeast PA. Chester County. On the advice of a local contractor I called the local USDA guy. That was only for a little advice and to talk permitting. He was hard to get in touch with. I wound up getting the permits from the NRCS people in my county. I had a detailed plan/drawing which made them happy. They also has a list of contractors who do "pond work". They will readily tell you that they don't endorse anyone but if you ask them who they work with on a regular or semi-regular basis they will tell you. I wound up using an excavator who they know will do things right.

One interesting thing that came out was there seemed to be a power play btween the USDA guy and the NRCS people even though they worked out of the same office. Watch out for that. From my experience, when it comes to permitting, it pays to talk to the people who say "yea" or "nea". NRCS in my case.

What I'm trying to get at is even though the NRCS said they can't help they may, in a 30 minute meeting, be able to give you good ideas and names of goood contractors.

Don't leave the "gubmint" people out of the loop. It will make them mad and cost you in the long run.

PA DEP is a joke, they wont even assist with anthing. The only info I was looking for was what permits I might need. I bet if someone called and said there was a violation they would show up and tell me. Finally got in touch with the NRCS after 2 months of no return calls. Turns out my name was on his very long list and he didnt get to it yet. Budget cuts and one guy for the whole county, surprise. He informed me he would give me a call when he gets to me. He said there was very little support available since I project wont be on a farm. But he said he could give some advise on permits and soil info. Not much help there I already got all that info from other sources. He could not recommend and contractors in my area, their office is 40 miles away they dont have info on my location. The rest of the trees are finally being cut down next week so atleast I will have the lot cleared. I contacted two aquaculture businesses within 50 miles of my location the one was a no show on the day he was to show up and hasnt returned my calls since and the other one I think I filled up his answering machine. Maybe I will call the Army Corp of Engineers for info.
At least the fish hatcheries I called were helpful, too bad the pond isnt done for the fish.

At my pond site I have access to an 4 ACRE area that contains alot of rock varying in sizes form 12in to 96in should I use some for structure in the pond and to line the sides of the pond and dam to prevent erosion and muddy water?

I would. Especially for structure.

Brian,

I started the permitting process on Feb. 21st 2007 and I'm finally close to approval.

Basically you need to do two things to get the ball rolling.

1.) You need to submitt your plan for the dam to PA DEP Division of Dam Safety. They will determine whether the proposed dam is a "non-jurisdictional" dam or a "jurisdictional" dam.

A "non-jurisdictional" dam is one that crosses a watercourse, has a contributory drainage less than 100 acres, has a maximum depth at the upstream toe of less than 15 feet, and has a maximum storage capacity less than 50 acre feet. It does not require a Dam Permit.

A "jurisdictional" dam exceeds any one of the above criteria. It will probably require formal engineering design. It will also require a Dam Permit with permit fees ranging from $1500-$3500.

2.) In my case the dam is "non-jurisdictional". When the Div. of Dam Safety made their determination they sent me an Environmental Assessment Package. The package itemizes all the documentation you need to submit to PA DEP for approval. PA DEP then distributes the package to any other state and federal agencies that need to approve it, including ACoE.

As for design help my guess would be that you're on your own. I must have talked to the pond expert at NRCS a half dozen times over the last year with no input forthcoming.

Hope this helps getting you started. I could have saved 6 months if this info was more readily available.

...nice work, jsec. Good, informative Pennsylvania quality post.

JSEC,
Thanks for the info. on permittting. I will get that sent to them this week.