Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Want to plant trees around 10 yr old 12 acre pond

Picture taken from top of the 540 foot long dam.

I've been a lurker on this forum for a very long time, but since I didn't have a pond, I felt it better to just read, read, read rather than register and post. But NOW... My dream has finally come true! I just acquired about 50 acres of land with a nice, well established 12 acre pond (25 feet depth near the dam) tucked nicely in the middle of it. It's absolutely beautiful, but it is lacking in trees (for my tastes). The picture you see is looking out toward the north shoreline where there is a pretty thick stand of trees almost exclusively comprised of volunteer wild elm trees. However the rest of the pond shore(90% or so is completely tree free.

I would like to plant a large number of pines (60-70%) and a lower number of birches, cedars and others. I am a big fan of northern lakes like you find in northern Minnesota, particularly the boundary waters canoe area, so I am trying to make the landscape look just a little more like that. Are there any concerns I should be aware of prior to doing this? Of course no trees would be planted on the dam, but how close can I plant to it? What about beneath the dam? Any tree species I should avoid?

Thanks for any input! Always been a huge fan of the board, just never had a reason to register and post until now. Hoping to build my new home on this property in late spring!

Welcome Weissguy!

Problems caused by trees is a relative thing. A 12a lake negates just about all the problems except for the dam. A dozen large trees could cause all kinds of problems for a 1a pond, but would hardly affect such a large body of water at all. Just don't plant too many trees, or plant them too close to the banks and you'll be fine.

"Oh, a Weissguy!"

Trees next to a pond DO consume water out of it; large quantities compared to what plain grass will use. You obviously have room and water for a fair number of trees. If you are planning on spreading out the tree planting process over a longer time interval (2-3 years), I suggest studying how much surplus water the pond has that would be available for trees. If you have runoff leaving a full pool for most or all of the year, that would be a good sign. If the level drops considerably in dry periods, that might be a warning sign to scale back the scope of the tree planting somewhat.

Different kinds of trees use different amounts of water, also. IIRC willows are among the worst. Conifers probably use less water than decidous trees, so your evergreen plan would use less water than many other possible schemes.

Pesonally, I'd give the dam a WIDE berth on both sides AND below it, just to be sure to avoid root problems on it.

Wecome Weissguy, nice pond congrats.

Welcome to the PB Forum. Beautiful place - congrats.

You may want to talk to the county forester for advice on what would grow well based on the soil at your pond. Planting trees that can not do well in a particular area is a very frustrating effort. If there are few pines in your area there is probably a reason. Think a lot and long term about what you want because planting trees is a multi-generation change. FWIW we are glad to have lots of trees around our ponds and have no problems with them , but we have plenty of water.

Wow, Weissguy...quite the grand entrance! Congrats on your acquisition and welcome to the written end of the PB forum.
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Ewest hints toward my only additional thought WRT trees.

Trees close to the edge might wind up in the water if they die or get blown over (bad if you don't like the look...good if you're a fish looking for a place to hang out). Also, the leaves will wind up in the bottom every year, providing a source for decomposition. This may not be any issue considering the size of the body of water.

One more thought, post Brettski. Needles don't blow as far as leasves, but tend to be more acidic. Might want to analyze the water PH and dteremine need for supplemental liming.

I have a pond very similar to yours it only has trees in certain areas. The reason I don't have a lot of trees around my pond is due to the soil. It has a shallow layer of sandy loam with thick clay under it. I have planted trees around my pond with only marginal success. I have to water them during dry periods and they are still not thriving due to the heavy clay soil. I agree with Ewest and only plant types of trees that are native to your farm already because they have already shown an ability to survive in your climate and soils. Good luck and congratulations!

My pond is 95% + lined with trees and brush right up on the shorelines.

No problem with water, but I know I get a lot of leaves in the water, and I probably have over a foot of muck on the bottom in many areas.

I will need to aerate or dredge sometime down the line.

Now, more importantly, what kind of fish do you have?

Welcome aboard...you've just stepped off dry land into a deep, deep, deep thing!

Your pond looks very familiar!!! Is it located just outside of Smithville??? It's late, and I'm probably hallucinating, but the little jetty on the east side reminds me of a pond that is (was??) owned by a former colleague of mine who is a biologist with the Cons. Dept. I know he was thinking of selling it. If it is, then I think you have inherited a trophy bluegill fishery. Maybe it is a small world, afterall. Or maybe I've seen too many ponds and need a new hobby.

Anyway, there are a couple of good foresters with the state that can help you with your tree selection for this area. In fact, one of them has a pretty good plan for pond-type applications. His name is Phil Sneed and he works out of the Chillicothe office. I don't know if you're in his assigned counties, but I'm sure he would give you the information you need. I can't remember the phone number to that office, but I am 100% certain that he works out of the Chillicothe office. He has a really good Powerpoint presentation on trees and ponds (types to choose, distances, etc).

Welcome to Pond Boss and congrats on your new pond.

Thank you for all the replies! I am very excited about taking on the management of this pond. I managed one when I was quite young and it did really well, but it was just an acre and a half in size.

Using the info you all have provided, I am going to stick with my varieties of trees (White Pine, Birch, Cedars and a few others in very limited numbers). All my selections appear to be growing quite well in the area with the added bonus of giving me the environment and feel I am wanting long term. I am planning to plant the trees AT LEAST 15-25 feet back from the lake shore (some will be even further back), depending on the variety and it's expected mature size (for long term sustainability in the plantings. I want the appearance of trees being right on the lake, but they'll be easier to maintain at that distance and still give that more intimate/private feeling when you're out on the water.

The only thing that I am still unsure of is the distance I should plant trees from the dam. I don't want to cause any problems, but I would like to get a few trees as close as I SAFELY can.


To answer some questions several of you had (not really related to my original question but I just can't stop talking about this thing):

-=CURRENT FISH=-
Currently contains your standard BG, LMB and CC mix. Possibly a few walleye. They were stocked about 4 years ago at 8", but I'm not sure they have survived as previous owner said he has not caught any, but I'm not sure they have really targeted them either. I have not had a chance to fish it yet, but being an avid walleye fisherman, I should be able to find out pretty quickly what their status is once I get a line in a few times. I honestly doubt they made it though. The previous owner states he has kept it carp free, but I am pretty certain I spotted a few near the shoreline upon my last visit. I can live with a few, but if I see two many, it'll be crossbow time. The LMB are thick around the shoreline. Most appear to be in the 14-16" range. I spotted one that was likely close to 20". The frogs are absolutely thick along the shore. As I walk along and scare the frogs into the water the bass go nuts and boil the water. Saw a group of about a dozen 20-25" CC that were hanging out in a little "ditch" area about 3 feet deep (spawning?).

I'd like to add some RES for sure. Possibly some HSB. Would love to add several more such as SMB, YP, WB, WC or BC but I worry about survivability with some and worse, overcompetition with existing fish with others.

-=Water Structure and Weeds=-
The lake appears to have been really well managed. Water clarity is really good for a pond in this area (about 4 feet). Invasive plants have been well controlled. Chara is a bit thick in the 2-3 foot zone but not to the point of being an issue. Owner states he drains the pond down about 3 feet every 2 or 3 years to kill the chara off, and it looks like that has been a solid method for this pond. FA is almost non existent. Very limited amounts in just a few spots. Not enough to care about at all (as long as it stays that way. hehe). Pond is not aerated and never has been according to previous owner.

Here's another picture. This time an overhead that is a year or so old. Top is north. Ignore yellow line. It's an old plat line that is now gone. The two little penninsulas (I guess that's what you'd call them) on the east shore are actually quite large. The top one is about 180 feet long and between 20 and 22 feet wide. The bottom one is about 90 feet long and 25 feet wide. There is a huge half finished wood dock in the southeast corner. There are two small islands about 20x20 feet in size on the west side basically straight west from the tip of the northern most penninsula. They are shown in this pic but have been dug out more since this pic was taken and seem to be quite stable.

Thanks again everyone for the advice. I'm quite excited!!!

Weissguy, let me know what you recommend for targeting walleye in a pond setting such as yours.

I put in about (20) that were 14-15" long about a year or two ago, and I have never seen one since, although I have not targeted them for fishing.

I love how your pond has that creek channel/narrow area in the back end.

Hi Weiss and a belated welcome to Pond Boss! I'm not expert by any stretch of the imagination (unless you can be an expert at stretching the imagination ~ which I happen to be fairly good at), anyhoo, I have a 3 acre pond that is surrounded by 5 types of pines and cedar trees, also two types of oaks. My one piece of advice would be to avoid cedar trees or at least Incense Cedars. I don't have any idea what types of Cedars you are considering but Incense Cedars let loose a tremendous amount of pollen from the tops of the trees. This pollen can carry an extreme distance in the wind. The trouble with the pollen is that it is grainy (almost like sand) and it floats on the pond surface. This makes swimming in your pond a real pain because it gets into your swim trunks and will stick to your skin. Plus while the pollen is on your pond it looks like you have an ugly scum on your pond. So my advice is that if you are going to plant cedars find out how and when the pollenate.

Sunil,
Those walleye should be a really nice size now if they have survived in your pond. I'm not an expert, but let me explain the best I can from my own experience chasing walleyes over the years. There are definately plenty of folks here that know much more than me on the subject, and will probably correct some of my theories and opinions (that's what learning's all about right?). Fishing walleye in a pond is definately going to be a bit different from fishing for them in larger, deeper impoundments (with much less temp variation) but some basics should still carry over. During the day, your walleye are going to generally stay down deep, and they are rarely going to feed at this time. They really only come up into shallow waters and feed during dusk and night feeding. Your best chance to catch one will be in the evening hours. Walleye tend to be "nibblers". They don't usually give a hard immediate strike like a LMB. A walleye hit will usually feel like a series of very light "tick, tick, ticks" (almost like you were dragging your bait over gravel) folllowed by a tug that feels like you just hung up briefly on a submerged weed (a BIG walleye feels like you just briefly hung up on a log or something similar... hehe). You want to set the hook during this "tug" stage. Most people have poor luck catching walleye because they confuse the walleye "strike" for dragging bottom and running into a weed bed, and rather than setting the hook they simply try to adjust their depth and in turn no longer present the bait to the walleye. Using a live bait (minnows, frogs, small BG, leeches... worms will work but are usually much less effective and you'll be fighting with BG and/or YP constantly rather than getting the walleye), drag your bait about 3 feet or so off of the pond bottom in a water depth of 8-12 feet (depending on water clarity and water temps. Walleye particularly like to hang out around steep ridges with shallow weed beds above that drop off sharply to deep waters where they can sit and spy out unsuspecting baitfish swimming over the ridge and over the deeper waters. Trolling will be far more effective than casting as you have the ability to maintain a much more consistent bottom depth as well as bait depth (both being crucial to walleye fishing). If you have a pretty constant source of moving/running water in your pond (spring, creek, aeration, etc.), try fishing as close as you can to this area but still using the same ridge principles as above. In other words, find your appropriate depth that is as close as possible to this running water or aeration source. That's where they'll be concentrated.

Walleye like to live in deep cool water, but that's not where they like to feed. It makes them a challenge to keep in small impoundments as well as difficult to fish for them. Most other game fish are significantly more aggressive and fearless than walleye. If you have a lot of aggressive feeders like LMB, BG, YP, HSB, etc. you could have one of the best walleye populations in the world and maybe never know it because your other fish are constantly beating them to your bait. Of course, this is what makes walleye such a fun fish to go after. The challenge!

Good luck and remember... A bad day of walleye fishing is ALWAYS better than a great day at work!

Thanks for the advice on the cedars. I've not heard of insence cedars. Maybe they don't grow around here (?). I'll research the pollen issue some more on the native cedars we have here. If they have the same problem as you mentioned above, I'll be pulling them from the "list". I'm not a big pond swimmer, but I would like to keep the surface as clean as "naturally" possible.

Thanks!

Hello Shawn,
You are correct! EXCELLENT observation! Your former colleague (S.R.) seems like a real stand up guy, and boy does he know his stuff. We don't actually close on the property until November, but as long as the survey goes well and a few other very minor requirements are satisfied, all is done then.

Thanks for the info regarding Phil Sneed. I'll definately try to get in touch with him. For some reason his name really rings a bell. Not sure why that is, but my family has always been pretty embedded in NW MO (Lawson, Gallatin, Trenton, Maryville, St. Joe, Smithville just to name a few).

Trophy BG sounds great! :-)

By the way, I'm currently considering selling my lakefront lot at Lake Viking (Gallatin/Cameron Area) if you know anyone in the market... hehe. I'll be spending my time on my "new" lake now.

Take care!